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Author Topic: Bi-Amp Considerations  (Read 1301 times)

jjkale

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Bi-Amp Considerations
« on: September 29, 2019, 11:57:05 pm »

I prefer to bi-amp my mains.  I realize there is disagreement on the effectiveness of the bi-amp technique, particularly regarding active/passive crossovers.
So right now, I am still employing the speaker crossover.  The speakers are Revel F208s and I believe it is fair to say that the built-in crossover is probably a very well designed circuit, as indeed the entire speaker is.
Can I "simulate" an external crossover network by copying to an additional channel and then adding a low pass to one side of that "split"and a high pass to the other? 
Or would those filters cascade with the existing internal crossover and produce an entirely different slope and phase as an end result?
The two amps I use are different.  I realize there is also disagreement about that.
I have a tube amp on top/mid and a solid state for the woofers.  Their gains are different.  Can I subtract gain in the above mix to account for the gain difference?
Or, if I measure with REW and my resulting RTA looks good...or as right now...really good, I'm ok and I actually don't need to worry about any of the above; i.e.  the proof is in the RTA regardless.
Thanks for any input or suggestions.
Play it loud!
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mattkhan

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Re: Bi-Amp Considerations
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2019, 02:47:58 am »

Yes you can implement a crossover in jriver though it has somewhat limited filter types built in. It will be harmful if you then route this through a passive crossover as well.
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dtc

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Re: Bi-Amp Considerations
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2019, 08:29:34 am »

The F208s have step crossovers already and, given they have a second second of binding posts, are designed to be bi-amped without any additional crossover.  The Stereophile article has a graph of the crossovers.  I would start with what is there already.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa3-f208-loudspeaker

The reviewer commented on the wonderful coherence they had for a 3 way design is.  Bi-amping, especially with different types of amps, may well interrupt that coherence.  I would be cautious.

The F208's were a new design for Revel and they certainly advocated playing them loud.  They were a little forward for me, but that depends on your music and your tastes. I have Sonus Faber Cremona's - sort of on the other end of the spectrum. Interestingly, I have a Mark Levinson amp, which were always somewhat laid back also. But the Revels went in other directionwith Harmon.  Interesting evolution of a company.
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jjkale

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Re: Bi-Amp Considerations
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 11:19:12 pm »

Thanks dtc.
I agree with your first paragraph.
And I have read the Stereophile review.
I have also communicated directly with Kevin, at Revel, who supported bi-amping.  He basically said that it would be an interesting problem to add a software external crossover, particularly with a 3 way design.
Caution is definitely a good thing.
I would be very interested to get your take, and MattKahn's about my question regarding RTA results, i.e., if the RTA is acceptable, is that all that matters?
Thanks to you both for your inputs.
jjk
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mattkhan

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Re: Bi-Amp Considerations
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 02:14:49 am »

You can't bypass the internal crossover so I have no idea what you hope to gain by adding an external software high or low pass filter on top of that, particularly when the published measurements for the speaker show that it is a v well behaved speaker. What are you trying to achieve?
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dtc

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Re: Bi-Amp Considerations
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2019, 09:17:05 pm »

I have typically bought speakers from producers who tuned their speakers more by hand than by analysis.  One hand build speakers in the center of the old violin masters in Cremona. One used first order crossovers and time aligned speakers. One still designs and builds his own magnets. But, they all reached the final sound using their ears more than a program.  That includes not only crossovers, but elements, resonances, baffles, etc.   i trust them a lot more than I do large companies with analysis programs. An analysis program is the start, but not the end point. But designers like I like are a dying breed.

If you want to try something new, go ahead. In the end, it is up to you what sounds good to you.  But I agree with Matt, I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

Enoy the music.
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