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[syndromeofadown]

Hi all. I need amp advice.

I'm looking to build a 5.1 channel surround system, mainly for movies, to put in a second home. There's neighbors so I'm not looking for it to be crazy loud, or expensive.

So far I have 6 Paradigm Cinema 100 speakers
https://www.paradigm.com/en/systems/cinema-100

I have small sub
https://emotiva.com/collections/subwoofers/products/airmotiv-s8

I have an HTPC with 8 channel soundcard that runs only MC.

The only thing missing is a 5 channel amp for the speakers.
Ideally I would get an Emotiva A-500 but 500 USD is more than I can spend.
https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/a-500

I am entertaining the thought of getting 3 x PA3 amps for 300 USD.
https://www.amazon.ca/Dilvpoetry-TOPPING-Desktop-Amplifier-TDA7498E/dp/B073QGLGZ3/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=pa3&qid=1582419537&sr=8-1

There is little documentation I can find about people using 3 stereo amps for surround but it seems like it would be simple enough. Please correct me if I am wrong, or suggest a better alternative.

I have also considered getting 3 x ALLO Volt+ amps but they seem more complicated than the PA3. I have no interest in receivers with hundreds of buttons, giant remotes and HDMI inputs.

Thanks

[Scobie]

The Sony and Yamaha amps at this level are well regarded.

Have a look at the Sony STR-DH590 and Yamaha RXV685

[rec head]

I know you said you aren't interested in a receiver but I just picked up a Denon 3808 (from 2008) for about $250 and use it strictly as a 7 ch amp. It has "Ext. In" inputs that bypass everything. I even opened the unit and unplugged the circuit board on top that has the HDMI and Ethernet ports on it. It is working great.

[syndromeofadown]

Thanks for the replies

The Sony and Yamaha amps at this level are well regarded.

I looked into similar amps and now my brain hurts. I suppose I'm not opposed to these beasts as there are very cheap ones from Denon, Onkyo, and Yamaha. The problem is that they have 1000 features and it's unclear if they have the one feature I need.

Since there are no analog inputs, I have to go digital. I'm not running hdmi to it for reasons I won't get into (I use DP with gsync). So that leaves optical. My sound card has optical out. I haven't tried this out, but I believe MC can apply DSP then output through optical as "dolby digital" (the cable can't handle 5 channel PCM). Another option is to buy a creative card that can output as "Dolby Digital Live". From what I have read, the new receivers that support whatever this week's Dolby format is are only backwards compatible to "Dolby Digital Plus". So is anyone successfully using a recent receiver with MC and optical?

I know you said you aren't interested in a receiver but I just picked up a Denon 3808 (from 2008) for about $250 and use it strictly as a 7 ch amp. It has "Ext. In"

I'm open to this but I can't find one. I actually saw a receiver like that about 15 years ago but never since. I live in the middle of nowhere and not in the US so it's not too easy to find used stuff.

If someone can recommend a receiver that works with MC and optical I may get it, otherwise I will probably get one of these amps:
https://www.buyapi.ca/product/volt-with-stepped-attenuator/
If it impresses me I can get 2 more, if not I may have to wait for an Emotiva sale.

[syndromeofadown]

The kind folks at Crutchfield gave me some info on receivers. Looks like they are typically backwards compatible with Dolby Digital. There is a crazy cheap Yamaha receiver model RX-V385 that should work for me. But I can't bring myself to buy it.

I ordered an ALLO Volt+ stereo amp. I will try it out an see how it does. I will only have a 2.1 system for the next while which is fine.

Later on I may get more ALLO amps but I will probably go for a 7 channel Emotiva amp in case I ever want to add more speakers.

For more than a decade I have been going from MC to DAC then straight to amp for my stereos. I really like this and will do the same with multichannel. I just can't bring myself to put a complicated box in the middle of my system, even though it is the cheapest route.

Thanks for the help.

[Zhillsguy]

I have three of these from Monoprice and am extremely pleased, and they interface well with the analog outs from my HTPC motherboard. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=605030 They also may be available on Ebay CA or elsewhere.
They are rack mount and have somewhat noisy fans FYI.... very versatile little amps.

[syndromeofadown]

Thanks Zhillsguy
It's nice to see someone else using multiple amps. I have seen monoblocks used for stereo before but never a stereo amps used in a surround system. The amp you suggest looks good. i will keep it in mind. It's 180 (135USD) on amazon.ca with great reviews.

[Zhillsguy]

It's cheaper on US ebay but total shipping and taxes may make the difference.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Monoprice-300-Watt-150w-RMS-x2-Studio-Audio-Amplifier/392456773661?hash=item5b603f201d:g:TR8AAOSwV7ZeW6aE&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

[dtc]

Thanks Zhillsguy
It's nice to see someone else using multiple amps. I have seen monoblocks used for stereo before but never a stereo amps used in a surround system. The amp you suggest looks good. i will keep it in mind. It's 180 (135USD) on amazon.ca with great reviews.

People with nice stereo speakers often use their stereo amps for the main stereo speakers and either the receiver amps or separate amps for surrounds.  Typically done with a receiver with separate line outs.  Many stereo preamps/integrated amps even have a Home Theater Bypass just for this purpose.  It takes the line in signal and passes it at unity gain.

You do have to be able to calibrate the volume of each channel separately, since the various amps may have different efficiencies.  You can do that with a receiver's  microphone or using a hand held dB meter.

[wer]

I think Scobie gave excellent advice with the Yamaha receiver, but alas...

DTC's point is correct.  If you mix amps of different brands or models, you will have level mis-match issues if they are not calibrated.  I have just such a system as dtc referred to, with monoblocks for the front channels, and matching calibrated stereo amps for the rears. Many manufacturers sell calibrated amps of 1 or 2 channels for just that purpose, building up a multichannel system, but these are far outside your stated price range. 

$500 is really a shoestring budget for a 5-channel dedicated power amp.  In audio, you generally get what you pay for. Your best bet for getting something of quality might be to investigate something used on Audiogon.

As has been pointed out, there are many receivers of reasonable quality in that price range, but you banned those too.  There are certainly amplfiers intended for cars available for your budget, or you could chain together 5 channels from mini amps intended for desktop or PC use.

Or you could look at something like this, which meets your criteria exactly. It has no features and no HDMI inputs and is under $500.
https://www.amazon.com/Channel-Theater-Balance-OSD-Audio/dp/B074415515

Good luck!

-Will

[syndromeofadown]

You do have to be able to calibrate the volume of each channel separately

I really don't care about this. The system is just for a second home that I'm not at too often. There are neighbors so I won't even be listening very loud. I also have pretty bad speaker placement.

Or you could look at something like this, which meets your criteria exactly. It has no features and no HDMI inputs and is under $500.

That's exactly what I want. Similar to the one I noted in my first post.

The only thing missing is a 5 channel amp for the speakers.
Ideally I would get an Emotiva A-500 but 500 USD is more than I can spend.

I have been using the Paradigm speakers with Allo amp for over a month now. I am very happy with the setup and have no regrets. I definitely recommend the Allo for a small desktop amp. There's plenty of power and no hums, pops, or hisses.

To give some context for what I was trying to build.
I have headphones/DAC/AMP for my music so I just wanted something cheap for movies. I thought it would be fun to have surround. I basically wanted a Logitech system in a box without it being disposable. I have a home theatre at my main home that has cost enough money, I can't justify spending more than the minimum for this second one. It sound's great and the speakers don't pop every time the fridge start up. So I am happy.

Thanks everyone for for your help.

[dtc]

I really don't care about this. The system is just for a second home that I'm not at too often. There are neighbors so I won't even be listening very loud. I also have pretty bad speaker placement.

That's when calibration is often most useful. $20 on Amazon.

[wer]

That's exactly what I want.

Well if you end up getting that OSD let us know how it turned out.

Good luck!

[syndromeofadown]

That's when calibration is often most useful. $20 on Amazon.

Can you expand on this please.

[dtc]

Can you expand on this please.

MC will play calibration tones (Tools - Advanced Tools - Audio Calibration)

You can measure the dB level of each speaker with one of these - there are fancier versions, but this probably good enough for your needs. I have not used it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07558DPKN/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07558DPKN&pd_rd_w=JEJy8&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=kvdYM&pf_rd_r=NFXDA4S85XY1TV2716K8&pd_rd_r=a101dc1c-9ea9-40eb-a54d-2f2f3cb63c26&smid=A1ZXLN2G3Q7BY5&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFESjkxNDJHQTdNWFgmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyMzA0ODc0Uk5NRVQ1Vk05UVYmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDUzMTA1NTJMRzJOWkwzQkxJUDEmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

Then in DSP Studio Room Correction you can set the relative volume levels for each speaker.  You can also set distance to speaker there.


There are also dB meter programs for phones. I have not tried those, but those are  free. Good place to start.

[syndromeofadown]

Thanks dtc. I will definitely research this more and try it out.

[syndromeofadown]

Hi all.

The advice I received in this thread was quite helpful. I am going to be moving some of my home theater stuff around soon so I need a bit more help.

I am building a home theater on one of my properties. The shell of a building is there, come spring time it will be insulated, and come summer I hope to be using it. I am going to use mostly my existing equipment (discussed in this thread) which is spread out between the different places I reside.

I have these stereo speakers:
https://www.paradigm.com/en/floorstanding/monitor-11
Powered by this stereo amp:
https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/basx-a2-stereo-amplifier

I have a couple of these sets for surround speakers:
https://www.paradigm.com/en/systems/cinema-100-3
Just using small cheap amps for these.

This 8 inch sub:
https://emotiva.com/collections/subwoofers/products/airmotiv-s8

And a 1080 projector connected to 90TB HTPC with 1050ti.

So my question:
For movies should I mix my nice towers with the cheap surrounds or should I have two systems. ie. Two towers for music in stereo and 5 cheap speakers plus sub for movies in surround?

If it is best to have 2 systems I can buy a 5 channel amp for the 5.1 system. They are in stock and about to go up in price.

If I should mix speakers into one system I will probably buy a the same 5 channel amp, and give away my stereo amp. The amp I am looking at is 95 watts per channel, or 120 watts if only in stereo. I am fine with this.

The 5 channel amp is only $150 more than a three channel amp with I could also get to pair with my stereo amp.

I haven't had a proper 5.1 setup for over a decade so I don't have much experience with this stuff.
I have zero intention of getting a receiver. I do zero streaming and do not care about atmos. Most of my content is dvd and bluray. I do not think I care about 7.1 surround but correct me if I am a fool.

It seams a 5 channel amp (or maybe 7?)  is in my future, but do I give away the stereo amp? It is an important question because the person I am giving it to will have to order one immediately if I don't give them it.

I appreciate any thoughts I can get from the experts here on how I should proceed.

Thanks.