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[Solderman]

There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear...

Media Center, 32 bit, ver. 26.0.30

On several occasions I have found that one or more of my songs (usually mp3 file) has vanished. I'm not talking about the "Library", I am talking about physically deleted from the Windows hard disk. It may be worth adding that in most cases, I had the file(s) for years, and the directory in which they reside is my "KEEP" in which files are added, almost never deleted.

I cannot prove that MC is causing the problem however, as noted above, in virtually no case should any other program be accessing the drive, the directory or files involved. MC is my ONLY media player on this system.

Obscure bug? Blame win 10? Any ideas? I am willing to troubleshoot, but have no idea how to go about.

[wer]

Do you have "Run Auto-import in background" enabled in Options->Library & Folders ?

[kensn]

As you seem to agree, a side effect of a robust media player such as MC that would physically delete a file from a drive seems unlikely.

It would have not gone unnoticed.

Have you done a search for the missing file on your PC?

Could the drive itself be going bad?

Ken

[RoderickGI]

Security software.

Some very old, and some obscure, audio formats can be detected as malware or virus', and get deleted.
What security software are you running?

But also test the drive carefully. I use Hard Disk Sentinel to monitor my drive and report issues. It is good. But there are lots of tools available.

[Scobie]

Could be that rather being deleted the files have been hidden? Check on view hidden files in explorer and see if they come up.

I'm not sure whether MC would successfully import a hidden file or whether it would deem it deleted.

[Solderman]

I want to expand my bug report to include files are being renamed! For example, tonight I find that Led Zeppelin's "Communication Breakdown" is actually "The Immigrant Song". It's worth noting that the file "Immigrant Song" has vanished from its directory.  This is not the first time I've had identical problems with files with the wrong name and the "correct" song disappearing from the disk. To me, this suggests that a rogue process is incorrectly identifying files, renaming them, and deleting old ones. I know that MC will update tags in files, but rename them? Delete them without notice? Doubtful.

Even if anti-virus or other software mistakenly identified a file and deleted it, this doesn't explain why a totally different song by the same group would be renamed incorrectly.

 It's not even on the same album! Also I found that three Doors songs had vanished (from the album "Morrison Hotel", if it matters.)

Anti-virus? Only whatever comes stock with win10 32 bit. Again, I cannot prove that MC is the culprit, but I am paranoid now (with good reason, I'd say.)

MC is a great product but until I can figure out the underlying issue(s), I am going to remove MC's options to update files and so on. Perhaps just a listing of how to turn these options "off" would be helpful. I am really getting annoyed at this...it has been going on for a long time. Also, perhaps someone can suggest some type of backup or auditing software to compare the current media files with an archived backup, to watch out for naughty files that have changed without authorization?

Even having used MC for several years, I admit I don't know everything. For example, I screwed up the file access controls and ownerships. I'm trying to get them fixed. I find it easier to delete the old entries from the library and then re-import everything. Problem: there should be 5083 files, but MC only finds and imports 4709 of them.

Honestly, there are days that I regret having given up drinking! 

Having said the above, again my suspicion is that MC is messing things up somehow.  Ideas?

[RoderickGI]

Update to MC26.0.69 so we are all on the same version.

It isn't a bug. But it could very well be the way you are using MC. For example, if you select some files, navigate around, select some other files and delete them, you could delete the original files if they were still selected. The possibility of doing that has pretty much been removed from MC, but if you are taking some very specific steps it might still be possible. Using Ctrl+Z is another way to alter files, or undo work you have done, without visibility of what has been done.

So, if you want help you will need to work out when it happens and share precisely the steps you took to reproduce the problem. You also need to share any other programs you may be using for tagging, backup, synchronising files, and so on. Anything that touches these files. For example, it is very easy in MusicBrainz Picard to incorrectly identify files, update them with incorrect metadata, and then move them to some location were they do not belong, so it appears that they have been deleted.

What is the source of these files? Could they have had incorrect tag information in them, which was used when you ran the "Update Library from tags" function? Can you check other files to see if the tags in the files are wrong, perhaps using some other software?

Your example of "tonight I find that Led Zeppelin's "Communication Breakdown" is actually "The Immigrant Song". It's worth noting that the file "Immigrant Song" has vanished from its directory." doesn't give any real information to work with.
What was the filename and location of Led Zeppelin's "Communication Breakdown"?
What was the filename and location of "The Immigrant Song"?
Where was the original file which vanished from its directory?

Much more information required because generally MC just doesn't do what you are describing, and if it does do that, it is because it has been told to. Computer software always just dumbly does what it is told by the user.

[Solderman]

Thank you for the reply. Here is some additional information that may help others, if they're having similar problems.

Here is a list of software I use (other than MC) that is known to change tags and/or file names:

MusicBrainz Picard: yes, agree this is one of the more problem-causing softwares. Pretty sure it will not change a file's name at least by default. The "scan" (analyze audio) function is occasionally used. However in experience I find a high number of false positives so use it with caution. Testing idea (for me): Feed it good examples of files I find screwed up, and see if it creates problems.

MP3gain: I've never noticed any tag or file name issues.

MP3Tag: This is my "go-to" tag editor and yes it can screw things up. I routinely use it to preen, correct and (yes) rename a file based on its tag information.

BeaTunes: very rarely used; this will analyze and store its own tags into the song files.

Some observations:

1. Generally I am familiar with the music and the files I am manipulating. I proofread and "proof listen" usually, before adding to my permanent collection (\KEEP). When I add a file to KEEP it should have been vetted by me. It is extremely unlikely that I would make this many errors, if human error were the issue. Once added to a permanent collection, a song shouldn't change its name any more than an oatmeal cookie left on the counter overnight should turn into a head of lettuce (stupid analogy I guess). 

2. Virtually all the errors I've found are correct artist but wrong title and often other tags. This implies software error. Since sometimes a different album's data is used, this implies error occurs when operating on multiple albums (one of my editor programs.)

2.5 Re the "update library from tags" comment: I easily understand that MC would import bad tag data from files. But under what conditions would it change correct file tags? Only when the tag editor is used? Does it ever change an actual file name, even at user's request?

2.5 I do occasionally delete files in MC (shift+delete menu); however, almost never with KEEP. I also know that tags can be edited in MC, but again, I rarely use the feature, instead use MP3Tag.

3. [Succinct summation of this issue?] Files in KEEP in theory are perfect and do not get edited by manually controlled editing software. File names and tags change unpredictably. Sometimes to song data for songs that were never added to KEEP. If this is correct, it tends to exonerate editing software and casts suspicion upon the media player, which unfortunately is MC.

Actions I will take to try and further isolate the issues:

1. I will compile a list of the errors I find, stating briefly what's wrong (and right) perhaps.
2. I will store the "bad" files in a separate directory, for possible later analysis.
3. I will consider additional suggestions offered here.
4. Stopgap ideas? Make the files read-only? But even that will not protect against modification or deletion by elevated privileges.

Addenda:

(At risk of repeating myself. I am well into middle age so consider it practice for my old age!  ) I will systematically listen to the 5000+ songs in KEEP, I'm familiar with most but not all. Already I've found several errors. These I'm collecting into a directory for further analysis. I'm also keeping a log of what errors I've found and steps in testing. 

This is preliminary: I've run both BeaTunes and MusicBrainz on the sample songs. In all cases the songs were correctly analyzed and identified (artist, title at least) For the Collective Soul case, this included obtaining a copy of the entire album, stripping out ALL the tags (with MP3tag); MusicBrainz scanned and correctly identified all songs. Similarly, BeaTunes had no trouble scanning the files and updating the correct information.

NB: MusicBrainz does have the ability to change a file's name, at least per the docs. To the best of my knowledge, BeaTunes does not ever change a file name.

I will do additional testing and report. Thank you.

[Solderman]

I've only recently started to use the MC feature to edit the tag fields, which seems to work well. However, this is not the cause of my woes because the issue goes back months to a few years, and only very recently did I start editing them in MC.
Only today did I discover that MC also allows manual lookup (auto-tag) via the YADB. However, as I'll note below, I am less than impressed by the quality of the information provided by this database. Again, not MC fault, but a pitfall. Two examples:

My file "Come On Eileen" (Dexy's Midnight Runners) was wrong (tags & filename). Some googling reveals it is really "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" by Wang Chung. Strike one for YADB.

The 2nd one is more of a sloppy naming complaint: I have a file with the monstrous title “Dave Barbour & The Brazilians / Mañana (is Soon Enough For Me)”; artist Peggy Lee. Again, this is from YADB. I would never knowingly name a file so horribly.

As you noted above, MC has the capacity to re-tag, rename and delete files. But beyond deleting selected files, until literally a few days ago, I never used MC to edit tags or filenames. So the question remains: What is messing with my files?

Clearly, MC will allow the manual changing of these items. My question now is: Is there any conceivable sitation in which it would do so automatically?

By now, it should be clear that there is something quite wrong, but how to pin it down? And yes, I come from a software background (prehistoric) and am well aware that troubleshooting software issues is a pain in the ass in the best of times. 

[RoderickGI]

The contents of the YADB come from User Libraries, if they submit their Tracks and Albums. But there's no review process before submission other than what a user does, so it can get a lot of garbage in there. To my knowledge tThere is no way for users to review the YADB database and correct it.

When ripping whole CDs it works quite well for mainstream Albums. However the lookup works differently for individual Tracks, and the data isn't anywhere near as good.

For this reason, I use Musicbrainz Picard for most lookups and fixing bad tags. However, I use it very carefully, as it can rename, move, retag, and completely re-identify tracks. Again, it is all user submitted data, not curated professionally, and can suffer from "Garbage in, garbage out".

I don't know what is renaming, let alone deleting files (if they are being deleted and not just being moved, renamed, and re-identified) on your system. Finding the cause would require direct access to your PC I suspect, and analysis of your workflow and the tools you use. However, if a file had a tag called "filename" and it didn't match the file, and you updated tags outside MC, and you allowed Auto Import to update those files for external changes, or ran the "Update Library (from tags)" function, then MC would take the contents of that "Filename" tag and both move and rename the file.

I can't say I have seen that for audio files, but it could happen.

I'm afraid you will need to look further, unless someone else comes along to suggest the cause.


PS: In any earlier threads where similar things have been happening, the cause has always led back to use of a third-party tool, or a user's understanding of the tool, or the way they were trying to use that tool, that has caused the problem. While MC may not always be blameless, JRiver can't be expected to cater for non-standard use of tags and other idiosyncrasies of all third-party tools. After all, there is no real standard for all tagging, just accepted practice which is somewhat similar between major applications.

[Solderman]

I don't know what is renaming, let alone deleting files (if they are being deleted and not just being moved, renamed, and re-identified) on your system.

Neither do I, that is why I've been complaining

Finding the cause would require direct access to your PC I suspect, and analysis of your workflow and the tools you use.

I could provide at least a description of its typical use and the tools used. Do you think it would help?

However, if a file had a tag called "filename" and it didn't match the file, and you updated tags outside MC, and you allowed Auto Import to update those files for external changes, or ran the "Update Library (from tags)" function, then MC would take the contents of that "Filename" tag and both move and rename the file.


Now here's a salient comment: disregarding my earlier comments about using MC's tag editing features, which as I said, I only used occasionally, and very recently, my normal workflow involves re-naming and tagging files to taste, but before they are added to MC. Until recently, I did, in fact have the options set to auto-import and change tags when file changes. I admit that I don't really know what these options do with MC's database. Perhaps you can explain, or point to the docs, where I can learn about these in-depth?

PS: In any earlier threads where similar things have been happening, the cause has always led back to use of a third-party tool, or a user's understanding of the tool, or the way they were trying to use that tool, that has caused the problem.
Yes, this fully describes my normal workflow.

While MC may not always be blameless, JRiver can't be expected to cater for non-standard use of tags and other idiosyncrasies of all third-party tools. After all, there is no real standard for all tagging, just accepted practice which is somewhat similar between major applications.

My KEEP directory (and database) should, in theory, only contain files that I already tagged and named to my own tastes, using 3rd party tools. In theory, the only changes that MC will make to these files is to add its own data (and NOT change any of mine!!!). This would be to add album art, tags for the R128 values, and so on.

In fact, my normal work flow (exclusive of having recently used MC's built-in tag editing) allowed me to be rather cavalier with the MC database. If I've recently done a batch (off line) change, I find it easier to just blow away the old MC database, put in the new files, and have MC re-import everything and start fresh.

There are oddities in MC's auto-import behavior. For example, yesterday, I'd add new files, modify existing, or delete some files from KEEP and, when I explicitly asked to "run auto-import now", MC thought there were about 16,000 files in the directory (there are only about 5,500!). This I thought odd. Also on several tries it failed to detect the changes. This I consider buggy behavior. I fixed this, as noted, by using the nuclear option to blow away the database and force it to re-import everything. Is this a separate issue that I might help troubleshoot? Even if this is an issue, it would seem different from unknown process changing data in my files.

[JimH]

Instead of using Bold for quoting, try this:

You can use the quote tag like this:

[ quote ]
What they said
[ /quote ]
What you said

but you need to remove the spaces that I put inside the tags.  Then it looks like this:

What they said

What you said

[JimH]

FWIW, my money is on the NAS.

[Solderman]

Instead of using Bold for quoting, try this:

Will try to comply. Have pity; I grew up in a time when a manual typewriter and White-Out was accessible high tech

FWIW, my money is on the NAS.

My "NAS" is a cheap USB external hard disk attached to a $100 windows toy pc However, you raise a valid question: there have been times when it was a network share off a different PC. Might this have caused some issues? (other than glacial file transfer rates  )

However, as a general troubleshooting idea, how about this: Should I "lock down" my system, add more access restrictions to the data? I know that windows has all kinds of access controls (UAC, accounts, file ACL and so on). I admit I don't know much about them, other than their existence. I usually leave everything at looser security settings. Perhaps something as simple as putting my files (KEEP) under tight security.  Here is something I've found, using my MS-DOS era knowledge

If I set the files in KEEP to just have the "read-only" option set, this will prevent MC from writing changes to that file, if I try to manually edit using the tag editor.  Since in normal times I don't want MC modifying any files, this is "good" and expected.

Less expected is this: I can still delete the media file using Shift-Delete menu (something I commonly do, but not with the KEEP files), and I don't even get a confirmation dialog. So how do I lock down the files more? The goal is to raise security enough so that I'll see some type of error message when a program is going to make an unexpected change to my precious files.

[Solderman]

MC 26.0.69 (32 bit), running on win10 32 bit.

Auto-import (or running it manually) on several occasions reported searching through over 16,000 files. The correct number of files in the directory is 5,084, reported by win10's "Properties" dialog.

On one occasion, the error message indicated some directories not even in the search path! (was set to E:\MUSIC\KEEP).

I tried a few things, including File -> Library -> Clear Library. Then set up auto-import to its directory and unset all the options as these might be causing issues? Reported importing about 4900 files (did not write exact # sorry). Database now reports 5066  files.

Why is it missing 22 files? Why the very odd reporting of 16000+ before I cleared the library?

I'm not sure how I might re-create this issue; log file attached. This trouble is very recent, so log entries from say 5/2 4 pm - 5:30 PM. Hope it will help. Thank you.

[JimH]

My "NAS" is a cheap USB external hard disk attached to a $100 windows toy pc However, you raise a valid question: there have been times when it was a network share off a different PC.

Please describe your setup.  Is this PC the only one?  Or is it a server for another?

What is the USB drive?  Make and model.

What is the network?

OS?

Take the time to describe it well in a single post.

Don't add anything that is extraneous.  It makes the posts harder to read.

If it's a USB 3.0 drive, is it connected to a USB 3.0 port?

[BigSpider]

I've been running MC for years now , with various library setups, Internal hard drive, Raid NAS, and usb drives and have never had a problem like the one you are describing. The discrepancy in file number might be due to having "ignore previously deleted files" set to true in your auto import set up. You need to careful appraise your autoimport settings if you are getting weird directories being looked at. There is no way that MC will be deleting files or changing tags unless you have set something up somewhere to do that.

PS I grew up at a time when the only calculators were hand cranked devices and computers took up the whole upper storey of a building and were less powerful than my mobile phone.

[Solderman]

Please describe your setup.  Is this PC the only one?  Yes, stand alone.

What is the USB drive?  Make and model:
Toshiba v63700-F 1.5 Terabyte, USB 3.0 capable but running via 2.0 cable.

What is the network?
System does not rely on network (hardwired), But local wireless network is Netgear N300 model WNR2000v5.

OS?
Windows 10, 32 bit. Windows 10 Home Version 1909 build 18363.815

Take the time to describe it well in a single post.

Don't add anything that is extraneous.  It makes the posts harder to read.

If it's a USB 3.0 drive, is it connected to a USB 3.0 port?

Can't tell. The Pipo X9 isn't clear (even original box doesn't say!); quick internet search shows conflicting info, some sources say 4x USB 2.0 ports, others say some 3.0 ports. In  my experience, USB 3.0 cables are unreliable (not only on this drive/PC combo), a USB 2.0 cable works fine.

[Solderman]

For what it's worth (note the clever allusion to the opening line in the first post  ) let me describe my normal work flow. Maybe I've done something unusual.

I run a single PC with the attached USB drive. MC is the media player. What may depart from normality is that I have two separate directories of files and similarly named libraries:

Before "new" files are put into INBOX I will typically preen them on a separate PC. They are passed through Mp3Gain, MP3Tag to inspect tags and sometimes change file names to taste, and less often the insidious  MusicBrainz Picard. Beyond all doubt, these preliminaries have the greatest chance of screwing things up.
But these files at least pass a quick visual test (for the data) and then are copied into the INBOX tree.

INBOX is a directory containing a mess of files that, as the name might imply, are candidates to listen to and delete when I no longer want them. If I want to keep a file, I use the control-C (copy) and then paste (via) windows explorer into the KEEP directory. This does pose a risk of overwriting a file of the same name. But Windows always provides the dialog box. Usually I end up renaming adding "(Group name)" to the file's name.

KEEP is intended to be the long-term keepers. In theory at least, the files in this directory do not change.

MC is configured to have two libraries with names parallel to the directories above. They are, separately,
E:\MUSIC\INBOX
E:\MUSIC\KEEP

That is why I was surprised this evening when, while Library=Keep was active, that I tried an import and the error message claimed a couple files in the INBOX directory. I wish I had done a screen shot. Might this info be in the logs file? I would think that separate libraries are, well, separate. Is it possible that there is some interaction between them?

[BigSpider]

I would suggest you look at your autiimport setup!

[JimH]

A USB 3.0 drive on a USB 2.0 port isn't a good idea.

[RoderickGI]

You have too many moving parts, and hence, potential for error. Do yourself a favour, simplify your workflow.

Use one Library and either fields or the directory structure to select either the INBOX or KEEP files for display in custom Views. That is what MC is really good at.

Use only MC functions once you have placed files in the INBOX directory.
Use the MC Rename, Move and Copy Files (RM&CF) function to move files with all their MC fields and file tags intact from the INBOX to the KEEP directory.

Make sure you have a robust backup process in place for both your INBOX and KEEP directories, preferably with incremental backups so that you can go back to any recent point in time to recover files if required. I assume you have some sort of backup in place now, since files have been deleted and you aren't saying that you lost them completely. I'm just being thorough in suggesting this backup process.

[Solderman]

I would suggest you look at your autiimport setup!

I wish I understood it well  ? For now I'm turning options "off" and will just do it manually. I can wait.

A USB 3.0 drive on a USB 2.0 port isn't a good idea.

Why? Isn't 3.0 supposed to be backwards compatible? I would use a Usb 3.0 drive on a 3.0 port. However, as noted above, I can't even be sure which ports support 3.0! Previous USB 3.0 cables caused more problems than the faster data transfer was worth.  While innovation is cool, it is often just a money-maker for the corporations. As some wiseacre once noted, "all computers wait at the same speed."

I do have a back-up scheme but it is infrequent. My really important data (non-MC) is backed up periodically to a 2nd PC. The various music files have at least two separate back-ups stored offline. I don't do incremental. My music is valuable, but it rarely changes and even if a few files were lost, they are replaceable from where they are obtained online (unless somebody goes out of business...hmmm.)

Audit of KEEP files finds some head-scratchers. For example, sometimes I customize a song for convenience. Some songs are multiples on the CD but I'd prefer to listen to them together. For example, Van Halen's album "Diver Down" has a song called "Little Guitars (Intro)" followed by "Little Guitars". I join these together and then re-encode. Usually I will rename the file + tag something like "Spanish Guitars with Intro". What is odd is that on multiple occasions the file name has mysteriously changed back to something an auto-tagger would use, like "Little Guitars (Intro)". I find this particularly weird    since things aren't supposed to change in the KEEP directory, and I never run an auto-tagger there.

"Simplify my workflow?" I will have to puzzle this one out. I know that MC is capable of many things. But I'm also skeptical of change for change's sake. For my purposes, I want a "Chinese Wall" between my two libraries and perhaps combining them into one library works against that. For example, with the present system, I can make mixes from INBOX that are listened to and disposable. I certainly don't want any of "KEEP" music in those mixes! I will at least look into how I might change my workflow. But it might actually end up being more complicated. The devil you know vs. the devil you don't (a major problem in an election year!) 

Is using multiple libraries not recommended? That might explain why I get occasional crashes when switching. I've very recently learned how to send logs and a dump. I just got such a crash, so I'm uploading the log + dump from that crash.

[RoderickGI]

Is using multiple libraries not recommended?

Using multiple Libraries is fine, as long as you understand how MC works. But this snippet of the conversation:

That is why I was surprised this evening when, while Library=Keep was active, that I tried an import and the error message claimed a couple files in the INBOX directory.

I would suggest you look at your auto import setup!

I wish I understood it well  ? For now I'm turning options "off" and will just do it manually. I can wait.

Shows that you have some knowledge gaps. That just means you need to get up to speed on MC a bit better. Reading the Wiki and Forums, and trying stuff, is the best way to learn, though it isn't efficient. MC has very deep functionality and so it is easy to miss important things.

For example, when running multiple Libraries on one PC, many Settings are shared between Libraries. That can be an issue, depending on how you use MC.

With the above example, where a couple of INBOX files appeared to be visible to the KEEP Library, the setting "Options > General > Importing & Tagging > Automatically import files when played" could have resulted in INBOX files being imported into the KEEP library, if you test played them via Window Explorer using the MC Shell Integration.

Another example;

Audit of KEEP files finds some head-scratchers. For example, sometimes I customize a song for convenience. Some songs are multiples on the CD but I'd prefer to listen to them together. For example, Van Halen's album "Diver Down" has a song called "Little Guitars (Intro)" followed by "Little Guitars". I join these together and then re-encode. Usually I will rename the file + tag something like "Spanish Guitars with Intro". What is odd is that on multiple occasions the file name has mysteriously changed back to something an auto-tagger would use, like "Little Guitars (Intro)". I find this particularly weird    since things aren't supposed to change in the KEEP directory, and I never run an auto-tagger there.

You have been re-encoding tracks to join them together, when all you needed to do was Link the Tracks (select the tracks you want to link, right-click the first track that should play {"Little Guitars (Intro)"}, select "Library Tools > Link Track), then whenever either Track was played, both would be played, in the correct sequence.

Now, why the name changes back to "Little Guitars (Intro)" for the combined re-encoded Track I can't be sure, but the obvious scenario is that when you combine the Tracks the new Track gets the metadata from the first Track, hence the name tag inside the combined file is "Little Guitars (Intro)". Then if you had "Update for external changes" selected in the Auto Import configuration, and Auto Import was running in the background or you ran it manually, if there was any external change to the combined file which changed the "Modified Date", then MC would have updated the fields in the Library to match the file tags. Hence, the name was changed.

There are other possible explanations, but they all involve some external process touching the file, whether it be a tagging tool or something else. MC doesn't just change metadata without being set up to do so, and triggered.

So as you understand, while two Libraries can be completely separate, they are still connected via the tags that are stored in media files, because that is what the Library uses as a source of metadata, in a general sense.

Why? Isn't 3.0 supposed to be backwards compatible? I would use a Usb 3.0 drive on a 3.0 port.

Generally speaking. A USB 2 drive on a USB 3 port is usually okay. However, a USB 3 drive on USB 2 hardware and drivers can sometimes be an issue. A USB 3 drive on a USB 3 port connected using a USB 2 cable can cause issues. Google it.

However, as noted above, I can't even be sure which ports support 3.0!

The version of your USB ports might show up in Windows Device Manager, if the manufacturer named them decently. You can view by connection in there to see what devices are connected to what ports. See https://kb.iu.edu/d/aout or https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000602.htm

But I don't think your problem is the drives. It is your workflow and understanding of the software tools you are using. By all means, keep the two Libraries, but try to diagnose the cause of the issues you reported, as related to your workflow, and I'll think you will find the causes.

[Solderman]

Renaming of the topic thread is disingenuous. There is no evidence of any type of data error on my system, in terms of random corruption of data or data transfer errors being reported. All symptoms point to either human error (there! I admitted it!) or an obscure software bug (most likely, 3rd party app) causing the changes or deletions.

Yes, MC is capable of far more than I use, or probably can use. I will read up a bit more on it. Metaphorically, MC is like the Wenger Swiss Army Knife:
https://partsolutions.com/engineering-the-worlds-largest-swiss-army-knife-the-1300-wenger-giant/
But most of the time I just need a soup spoon or table knife

One reason I make some custom songs is so I can listen to it in other players. While infrequent, this is a valid need. Unfortunately, MC's best features won't help me to play the song in my Kia

I agree that most likely the problems I'm seeing have been my own doing. Still, some odd stuff going on! 

One stopgap measure I've done is to "lock down" the KEEP directory. First, I added an administrator account to Win10. Even this required some digging. Next, I changed what was my usual account to standard (not admin any more). After a few mishaps, I learned enough about windows ACL to change the entire KEEP directory to be strictly read-only except to Admin. This will protect my files quite well, but it does make it harder for MC to tag the files, or any other software of course. On the upside, usually the tagging only is done once This also has the problem of complicating my file preening process, but only slightly.

Since we've not found any true problems with MC, do we want to call this issue closed? I will finish my audit of my KEEP files, make the corrections I need (with 3rd party tools). If by chance I find a problem with MC, preferably reproducible, I will complain again

[RoderickGI]

   I think you are getting a handle on the issues. Hopefully, your solution will work for you. It is a bit of a shame that you didn't find the root cause of the problem, but I think your KEEP directory will be safe now.

MC may complain a bit when it can't write [Numbers Plays] and other "dynamic" tags to files, but that is manageable, or you could just turn off all tag writing in the KEEP Library. Which you may have already done. That is certainly an advantage of having two Libraries.

I acknowledge my lack of foresight with the Kia issue! A lot of people use Gizmo, MO 4Media, JRemote, JRemote2, and I guess JRiver for Android (working with Android Auto) in cars these days. I'm not sure if any of them respect the file Links though... It looks like JRemote2 and Gizmo don't. Oh well, your solution is the only one then I guess.

Carry on. Tame those third party Apps! 

[Solderman]

Thank you for all the support for what, I confess, may have been my own fat-fingering with the 3rd party apps. This is still a bit of a mystery.  If I ever discover cause(s) of the errors, and they are reproducible, I may trumpet them here, even if they don't directly involve MC.

The last couple of days I seem to be getting the crash right after switching libraries...I had another tonight. More for your workload: I'm going to see if you have a preferred bug report system, and then submit the crash. Thanks for a great product.

[RoderickGI]

The last couple of days I seem to be getting the crash right after switching libraries...I had another tonight. More for your workload: I'm going to see if you have a preferred bug report system, and then submit the crash. Thanks for a great product.

Well, I don't actually work for JRiver. Just a user like you. So none of that stuff is "mine". It's all Jim's. 

There is no bug or issue reporting process other than this forum. I suggest that you start a specific thread on the crashes, and stick to that topic in it. One topic per thread always works better. YOu should only send MC logs or crash reports (Dump Files) if someone from JRiver asks for them. Although sometimes I do ask and have a bit of a look, I'm not good at reading Dump Files.

It would probably be a good idea to search the forum for recent threads on crashes first, as you may find a solution there.