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[RockyMalerbo]

I am saving problem with MC 27 that I have had since MC 22. Most DVD rips will not play the DTS or Dolby surround audio. JRiver Media Center plays whatever is at the top of the Audio Options Menu, which is usually Stereo. I have to use PowerDVD 8 to hear these rips in surround sound.
I have my laptop connected to a Sony A/V Receiver through an HDMI cable. Under It is set to WASPI.
Under Tools/Options under Audio - DSP & Output Format, I have Output Encoding set to NONE. The CHANNELS Tab is set to SOURCE NUMBER OF CHANNELS. The Sony A/V Receiver is set to AFD Auto.
This works for most things. There is no problem with Blu-ray rips, just DVD rips.

[wer]

You seem to be saying that MC is playing the "wrong" audio track; that it is playing the stereo track, when you want it to play the multichannel track.  If that's not what you mean, post again. So...

I'm guessing that your DVD rips have multiple audio tracks.

I'm also guessing that whatever you're using to rip them, isn't setting the default track or track order the way you'd like.

If you rip them with MakeMKV (which is what I recommend) then MakeMKV will always make the multichannel track the first and default track.  But you can control which track is the default by selecting it during the rip.

If your rips are in MKV format, you can use MKVtoolnixGUI to change the default track, or the track order, even after the rip is finished.

Lastly, MC will play whatever audio track you want, even if it's not the default track.  Simply select your favored audio track from the right-click menu during playback, or using the OSD in theater view.  You need only do this once, per file. Once you have selected an audio track, MC will remember and use that track every time you play that file.

If you want MC to automatically pick the right track first time every time, you need to get your rip settings right. MC picks a track based on what it finds in the file the first time it looks. Thereafter, it remembers the last track used for that file.

[RockyMalerbo]

Thank you for your reply. I used AnyDVD for my DVD an Blu-ray rips until they had the nerve to void my lifetime warranty. Then I started using Leawo Blu-ray copy. Both of these programs preserve all audio streams, except MLP on DVD-A discs.
Most of my DVD rips are audio-only - for instance, the Jethro Tull deluxe sets.
I haven't heard of MakeMKV until you mentioned it. I will give it a try. I hope it preserves the audio menu.
When a DVD rip is playing and I right-click on it, there is nothing about audio. It has DVD Menu, Jump To, Subtitles (I usually have to get the subtitles that way. Selecting subtitles in the language menu doesn't work in JRiver either). I wish there was AUDIO. That would make it so much easier. I am trying to attach a screen crop.
I haven't worked with Theater View. So far I have found it annoying when it pops-up automatically. I will look into that. Thank you for the suggestion.
I will be learning things about JRiver for the rest of my life.
Thank you very much!

[wer]

In the screenshot you showed, you're playing either a DVD disc directly, or an IFO DVD backup,  For that type of playback, you can use the DVD's animated menu to select a different audio track, if one exists. Select "DVD Menu" from the popup in your screenshot to access it.

If you were playing a ripped content file, like a MKV, you would see a "Streams" menu in the screenshot you showed, where you could directly select whichever audio stream you want.

I don't care about DVD menus; for me they get in the way of the content.  I rip the disc to a MKV file with all the audio and subtitle streams I want.

[tij]

MakeMKV is great ... but i dont think it can rip audio only (ie omit video stream) ... not directly anyway

One can remove protection from disk using MakeMKV and extract audio only usine MKVToolnix (both MakeMKV and MKVToolnix are lossless extractors ... they remux)

[wer]

I assumed he wanted both; he talked about DVD discs (which means video) but then said most are audio only, but didn't say DVD-A.  I think some discs are DVD-V, with a black video stream and audio, but are not actually DVD-A discs; I've seen some like that.

I don't mess with DVD-A discs so I'm not sure, but I think you're right that MakeMKV can't rip them to a MKV.

[EnglishTiger]

MakeMKV 1.15.3 has a "New Trick Up Its Sleeve" - right now I'm listening to the "Dolby Atmos" stream from the Abbey Road 50th Anniversary Version direct from the DVD in MC26.

However there is a problem because whilst MakeMKV found MC26 it did not find MC27 and there is no way of getting it to search for it!

[tij]

MakeMKV 1.15.3 has problem ripping 3D bluray. 3D is present in the rip but legacy flags were omitted. Unfortunately those flags are used to trigger 3D.

Not sure what uses those legacy flags .. . LAV or MadVR.

[RockyMalerbo]

WER wrote:

or an IFO DVD backup,

Right! These were ripped with AnyDVD or Leawo Blu-ray copy. There are VOB files. I started doing this about 14 years ago to make back-ups of my DVDs - long before I used JRiver.  I have hundreds of DVD rips I have made this way and I cannot re-do them with other software. I never tried playing a physical DVD through JRiver.

For that type of playback, you can use the DVD's animated menu to select a different audio track, if one exists. Select "DVD Menu" from the popup in your screenshot to access it.

Unfortunately, when I click-on DVD MENU, I get the DVD Menu and that is all.

Most of these DVD rips are audio-only, like one gets in deluxe box sets. However, there are a few movie DVD rips that behave this way. JRiver plays whatever is at the top in the audio menu. If DTS 5.1 is at the top, JRiver will play DTS 5.1.! Most of these DVDS have STEREO at the top, and when I go to the AUDIO Menu on the DVD Rip to select Dolby 5.1 or DTS 5.1, JRiver still plays the STEREO audio stream.

I have no problems with DVD-A rips. JRiver will play whatever available audio stream I select. Same with blu-ray rips. No problem.
 
WER, you also said to use OSD in Theater View. Where in the world is OSD in Theater view? I looked for an hour last night. Is that a button on the remote? I still don't understand the remote either [lol].

I got MC22 for free with Neil Young's Pono Player. Since then, I have purchased 5 upgrades, and I am still having this problem. I am very disappointed that the upgrades have not fixed it.  I guess I will have to keep using PowerDVD 8 unless JRiver fixes IFO/VOB DVD structures.

Thank you for replying.

[wer]

OSD=On Screen Display

It's the interface available through the remote or keyboard in theater view.  Up or down arrow to access it.

It won't do you any good, because if you don't see a Streams menu in the right click menu, which you don't, then you won't be able to select an audio track with the OSD either.

Sorry but the wording of the rest of your post is confusing and self-contradictory. "I click on dvd menu and get the dvd menu and that is all" is not a useful statement.  You keep talking about an audio menu. What audio menu? Where?  I can't decipher what you're trying to say without screenshots.

I have zero knowledge of Anydvd or Leawo, so I have no idea what they left you with, but I can only guess that either you're not describing it well, or they left you with something odd.

It sounds like you're saying the problematic rips were NOT DVD-A discs, because you later say your DVD-A rips are fine. So I'm guessing they are DVD-V (regular DVD) discs, but the video stream is black, because you also keep saying they are "audio only". This is what tij and I were arguing about.

If in fact your existing rips are IFO backups, then indeed you CAN re-rip them to MKV using MakeMKV.  Just open the IFO file in MakeMKV instead of opening a drive letter.

As I said, I can't understand what you're describing without better wording and screenshots, but I think it's unlikely the problem is with MC.  Maybe we can get to the bottom of it.

I'd be interested to see a screenshot of MakeMKV when you open one of your IFOs in it.  See this guide:
https://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/extract_content_from_a_dvd_page_4.cfm

[wer]

I made an IFO to do some testing on this...

I've found two bugs in MC, which might be contributing to what you're seeing. (As I said, I don't fully understand what you're trying to say.)

The following apply when playing from an IFO backup of a DVD with multiple audio streams:
1. Audio Path displays an incorrect channel count when bitstreaming is on. When bitstreaming is on, Audio Path indicates 2ch input, even when the input track is 5.1 AC3 or 5.1 DTS. It is the Audio Path display that is wrong, because the HDMI sink indicates the signal received is 5.1, so the audio is being output correctly but the Audio Path display is incorrect.  This could trick you into thinking you're getting a stereo track when in fact you are not.

2. When selecting alternate audio tracks from the interactive DVD Menu, the audio track selection does not work. Regardless of what is selected, MC plays the default audio track. This is confirmed by the diagnostics from the HDMI sink.  However, this can be mitigated by using the LANGUAGE menu from the right-click menu during playback to select an alternate track. When an audio track is selected using the LANGUAGE option on the right-click menu, the correct audio track is output by MC.  However, this workaround can be confusing because the language menu may just indicate "English" for both choices, with no way to differentiate between DTS and AC3.

So to recap: Audio Path channel count is wrong when bitstreaming, and audio track selection using the interactive DVD menu does not work when playing IFO dvd backups; only the LANGUAGE option on MC's right-click menu works.

The second problem I consider more serious, but I don't know how long it's been an issue, as I don't normally use IFOs. The 1st problem is an annoyance to some, but I don't bitstream either, so really neither of these affect me, but I can see them making life hard for other people.


Rocky, for you I suggest you try selecting alternate audio tracks using the LANGUAGE menu shown in the right-click menu in the screenshot you provided. That works.

Beyond that, I don't think we can make further progress with this unless someone from JRiver would like to chime in on those two bugs.

I hope this helps.

[Hendrik]

The Audio Path when Bitstreaming is not meaningful, since MC is just passing through the original stream from the disc, it does not necessarily know whats inside. The Audio Path will show the physical properties of the stream being passed to the audio device, which in "SD" audio like AC3 from a DVD is always a stereo stream which contains the compressed audio data. It has always been this way and is independent of it being a DVD.

The menu choice is driven by the Microsoft DVD Navigator, its not something we control. If that doesn't work its possible that we can't do anything about that, but i'll try to find a DVD and test it.

[wer]

Ok, thanks Hendrik.

Do you think it might make sense to have Audio Path say "ac3 bitstream" instead of "ac3 2ch" since the "2ch" is usually misleading?  That would both make it always correct and eliminate confusion.

Appreciate your checking the menu choice issue...

[EnglishTiger]

After seeing Wer's Posting about the Channel Count being incorrectly reported in the Audio Path.. I loaded my "Abbey Road 50th Anniversary DVD" and told MC27 to play it to see what the Audio Path was reporting for the various audio streams:-

According to the info on the Back of the Book the album came in and the info showing in the "streams" option
The PCM stream is pcm_bluray 96Khz, 24 bit, stereo, 4608 kb/s - Audio Path reported it as 96Khz 24 bit 2 channel from source format pcm_bluray
The DTS-HD stream is dts-hd ma, 96Khz, 24 bit, 5.1 channel - Audio Path reported it as 192Khz 16 bit 8 channel from source format dts
The Dolby Atmos stream is truehd, 48Khz, 24 bit, 7.1 channel - Audio Path reported it as 192Khz 16 bit 8 channel from source format truehd
There is also an ac3 stream which only shows up on the streams option menu
on the streams menu it's reported as ac3, 48Khz 5.1 640kbs [ sub ] - Audio Path reported it as 48Khz 16 bit 2 channel from source format ac3

Like Wer the only thing that happened when I left-clicked on the Interactive DVD Menu was MC27went into paused mode. I was only able to change streams was via the right-click streams option and using the right-click jump-to option to change tracks (chapters).
 
Not sure if it's supposed to happen this way - but every time I told MC to change stream the track playing paused, MC changed streams and then continued playing that track

[wer]

Like Wer the only thing that happened when I left-clicked on the Interactive DVD Menu was MC27went into paused mode.

That is not at all what I said.  The interactive DVD menu mostly worked. I could navigate from page to page, I could select different video tracks, and do the other things one can normally do in those menus.  The only thing that did not work normally from the interactive/animated DVD menu was selecting an alternate audio track.

From what I've seen, and what I tried to describe, is that outside the interactive menu, alternate audio tracks show up in ONE of two places:

If they are directly selectable, a STREAMS menu will appear on the right click menu, and they may be selected there. This happens if the source is an MKV file.  Otherwise, if the source is an IFO, you don't get a STREAMS menu, there is a LANGUAGE menu instead and they are selectable there.

[RockyMalerbo]

WER asked:

What audio menu?

I was referring to the audio menu on the DVD. You know, Main Menu, Audio, Bonus Features, Subtitles, etc.

[wer]

So that's the interactive DVD menu. What it's called (Audio), and what it looks like, is up to the disc designer. It might be called Audio on one disc, Sound on another, or be missing completely or under a Setup menu on a third. Also, the order is up to the designer, and what track appears at the top, or left, is meaningless. One track is designated the default track, but where that track is listed is arbitrary. On some discs the default track might be listed first, on others it might be listed last.

The Streams and Language menus that appear on the MC right-click menu are built based on MC's analysis of the disc (or IFO) and do not have any relation to the Interactive DVD Menu.

[RockyMalerbo]

Wer Wrote:

Rocky, for you I suggest you try selecting alternate audio tracks using the LANGUAGE menu shown in the right-click menu in the screenshot you provided. That works.


That DOES work, Wer. I tried it with a rip of Jethro Tull's Benefit audio DVD from the deluxe box set. When I clicked-on LANGUAGE, it listed English three times. The top one is Stereo, the middle one is DTS 5.1, and the bottom one is Dolby Digital 5.1. Hooray! Thank you very much, Wer!!! (JRiver could label that a little better, though.)

I am an old-fashoned record collector and audiophile. JRiver has given me the opportunity to have something of which I could only dream - an audio/video jukebox with all of my CDs, Hi-res files, DVDs, Blu-rays, bootlegs, and TV recordings in one place at the touch of my fingers. They are stored on 4 external hard dives and played with JRiver through my Dell Laptop and my Home Theater system. I only handle a physical disc once -  to rip it.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and help.

[EnglishTiger]

Today I decided to do a bit more exploring and discovered that Audio Path isn't the only thing displaying Misleading Information, plus I found a few other oddities.
1st I loaded the Beatles Abbey Road DVD(BluRay) fired up MakeMKV and told it to open the disc to see what it was telling me about the content. Unlike the bumph that comes with the Album(s) which only mentions 3 Audio Streams - Dolby Atmos, 96khz/24bit DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1, 96khz/24 bit High Res Stereo; MakeMKV told me there were 5 Audio Streams - LPCM Stereo, DTS-HD MA Surround 5.1, DTS Surround 5.1 (nested under the DTA-HD entry in the tree), TrueHD Surround 7.1, DD Surround 5.1 (nested under the TrueHD entry in the tree). [1st attached image]

Then I fired up MC27 and told it to play the DVD and switched to the DolbyAtmos Stream and used the right click menu to see what Audio Streams MC was seeing - it had 4 - the DTS Surround 5.1 stream was not present and the DD Surround 5.1 was listed as ac3 and had the word [sub[ behind it [2nd Attached Image]
I then switched to the Blu-Ray Menu changed the stream to the PCM Stereo Stream then used the right click menu to bring up the stream list - this was identical to the one revealed when I was using what I now know to be "Title Playback" [3rd Attached Image].

Now for the differences - when in "Title Playback Mode" I had to use the Right Click Menu to change stream or track, using the "Jump To" menu - left clicking anywhere in the Display View screen paused the playback. But in "Blue Ray Menu Mode" left clicking on a "track name" started that track playing and clicking on a stream name caused MC27 to pause the current track, change stream and then resume playing. So I thought I'd look to see what would happen if I used the Right Click Menu instead of the "on-screen menu" when I tried to switch streams MC ignored me and left the current stream playing but when I tried to use "Jump To" to change tracks disaster struck MC appeared to be trying to change track (chapter) dropped into what appeared to be "paused mode" and froze solid.

After kicking MC out of memory I fired up MakeMKV up again but this time I told it to rip the dvd once it had done that I fired up MC and told it to play the .mkv file and then looked to see what Audio Streams were present - it listed the 5 streams MakeMKV had listed [4th Attached Image]. plus of course I was back to having to use the right-click menu to navigate from stream to stream and jump tracks. Then I spotted that MC was telling me I could switch Shuffle On so I tried it and guess what it continued playing in sequential track/chapter no. order!

Since I was getting fed up of listening to the tracks on the dvd/.mkv file I set my flac tracks playing but then Disaster #2 occurred. I'd remembered that you can Audio Analysis on a Video so I told MC to analyse the .mkv file when it got around 40% thru the task playback in MC27 froze with no sound coming out of the speakers. I let the audio analysis finish but MC remained in it's frozen state and needed kicking to get it to close. Once I'd restarted MC I checked the tags in the .mkv file and spotted that the ones I expected Audio Analysis to add were not present so I fired up File Explorer and went looking for a recently created file that i did not recognize and found a JRSidecar.xml file in the sane folder as the .mkv file and opened it in Notepad++ - it contained the tags I had expected to find added to the .mkv file, including an extremely long "Wavefrom" tag then I noticed that although it said there were 2 Channels the "Peak Level (Sample)" and "Peak Level (R128)" tags listed 8 channels:- left, right, centre, sub, sl, sr, rl, rr - and all but the rr channel had numeric values. Unless there is a setting somewhere I haven't yet found I could not get MC to display the .mkv waveform in the player window

This got me wondering if there was anywhere else MC could be "presenting" misleading/wrong info and so went back to getting MC to play the MKV file and then the DVD and it didn't take me long to spot something "unusual" happening in the player window.
When playing the .mkv regardless of the stream being played the bitrate changed every second but the sample rate was always 96khz and the channel count was always 2.
Then I switched to playing the DVD when using "Title Playback Mode" the bitrate changed every second but there was no sample rate or channel count showing. When I switched to the "Blu-Ray Menu" the bitrate climbed while the menu was loading but once the 1st track started changing it did not change regardless of which track or stream was playing plus the sample rate and channel count were always blank.

[Hendrik]

Then I fired up MC27 and told it to play the DVD and switched to the DolbyAtmos Stream and used the right click menu to see what Audio Streams MC was seeing - it had 4 - the DTS Surround 5.1 stream was not present and the DD Surround 5.1 was listed as ac3 and had the word [sub[ behind it [2nd Attached Image]

That seems to be working as expected. Those tracks that are nested one level deeper in MakeMKV (The DTS 5.1 and DD 5.1) are not "normal" tracks. The DTS 5.1 track is being created by discarding all HD information from the DTS-HD track, and its not actually a track by itself, and MC will never show it - since it doesnt actually exist. Its the HD track with less information. The DD 5.1 track is a sub-track contained inside the TrueHD track for compatibility (hence the sub marker). Oh and AC3 is just an alternate name for DD (Dolby Digital).

On the other hand, in Blu-ray Menu mode, the menu logic determines which streams are available, which can be different to title playback or playing a ripped MKV, where MC actually looks at the media file and decides itself which streams will be offered. This can be different because the menu might hide a certain stream, or it might present one differently then the media file actually contains it.

When playing the .mkv regardless of the stream being played the bitrate changed every second but the sample rate was always 96khz and the channel count was always 2.

The bitrate of video or compressed HD audio is not constant. It changes over time. Thats perfectly normal and will depend on the kind of track you are playing. The Stereo PCM track for example has constant bitrate, the DTS-HD or TrueHD tracks are variable bitrate.

In general, video files where you can swap the active audio track are going to be far more dynamic and depending on when you change the track the information may not match the database. MCs database only has one channel field, but if your video file has 3 streams with different channel count, which is it to display? It'll either pick the first or try to pick the highest quality based on various factors. Then if you change the active track, MC will know that, and when you then analyze the audio, it might analyze audio for a different track (ie. the one you selected) instead of default, which can cause differences in the analysis compared to eg. the channel count in the database.

[EnglishTiger]

Hendrick - I'm well aware that Dolby Digital and AC3 are just alternative names for the same thing. I'm also aware that the DTS 5.1 is nested under/in the DTS HD MA stream, just as the Dolby Digital Stream is nested under/in the TrueHD stream, as a "fallback" and why. A user who has a Dolby Atmos enabled system theoretically can choose to listen to either the Atmos stream or the Dolby Digital/AC3 stream because the Atmos/TrueHD codec is capable of decoding both streams; but a user who doesn't have an Atmos enabled system will only ever be able to listen to the DD/AC3 stream because the DD codec can't interpret the TrueHD stream; the same applies to the DTS streams.

As far as the "Bitrate" updating every second in the Player Window - To ne that is "Normal Behaviour" that I'm used to - what to me was the "Abnormal/Unusual" behaviour happened when I was using the "Blue-Ray Menu" mode while playing the DVD where the bitrate was changing up till the point where the 1st track started playing.

Regardless of what the MC Database does, or does not, contain there is, in my view, an obvious question that still hasn't been addressed:- other than the DTS 5.1 stream not always being present the right-click streams menu always agreed with the info from MakeMKV, the info on the DVD sleeve, the book that comes with that variant of the album, the slip cover the book comes in and an extremely reliable external source. Information that MC obtained from the DVD or the .mkv file, depending on which one was being "played", why were "Audio Path" and "The Player Window" constantly presenting Wrong/Misleading values especially in respect of Sample Rate and Channel Count?

Oh I misread the sidecar file the rr entry in both Peak Level Tags did have a value. But even that doesn't explain why they have the values for 8 channels when it claims there are only 2 channels present.

Something else that maybe I need to mention - except when playing the DVD from the Blue-Ray Menu, not only was the Bitrate in the Player Window constantly changing (as expected) the range of the values being displayed varied from stream to stream (as expected) as did the "quality (and volume)" of the sound coming out of my speakers.

[Hendrik]

Information that MC obtained from the DVD or the .mkv file, depending on which one was being "played", why were "Audio Path" and "The Player Window" constantly presenting Wrong/Misleading values especially in respect of Sample Rate and Channel Count?

As was mentioned before earlier in this thread, if you have bitstreaming on, then the Audio Path is not relevant, since it's passing compressed audio and thus the information shown there is not related to the audio format it would potentially decode to, but only the compressed form, which is different.

[wer]

... it might make sense to have Audio Path say "ac3 bitstream" instead of "ac3 2ch" since the "2ch" is usually misleading.  That would both make it always correct and eliminate confusion.

[David Sydney]

If it's of any help (can't say I completely across all of this post) - the Audio driver used also affects surround playback obviously, but not something which is clear by default. If you have an external decoder like I do. If the Audio settings are specified using Bitstream = S/PDIF and Audio Driver = WASAPI, it decodes to 5.1. If I have used the same decoder box but Audio driver "Default Device[Direct Sount]" it does not decode as 5.1 and comes out stereo 2.1. The name of the driver is counter intuitive perhaps.

The downside of using the WASAPI is that volume control is no longer on the PC but on the decoder which is a reach for me with no remote. So I have 2 audio zones and toggle b/w them "Player Realtek PC Mixer - 2.1" that uses the Default [Direct Sound] driver for TV etc and "Player Yamaha DSP Exclusive - 5.1" that uses the WASAPI driver for DVD, Music. I have only just found out how this all works after using the decoder for 14 years, and MC for 4 years!. I rebuilt the PC and had to fiddle with all the setup and settings to commision the new install - learning something new in the process!

[wer]

The downside of using the WASAPI is that volume control is no longer on the PC but on the decoder which is a reach for me with no remote. ... I have only just found out how this all works after using the decoder for 14 years, and MC for 4 years!

You still haven't quite mastered it, I'm afraid.  Unfortunately the way Windows sound works is often not straightforward, so it can frustrate people...

Two points, either for you or so that others who find this thread won't get confused:

First, it's not ideal to use DirectSound.  It resamples everything, and that's not good for quality. WASAPI or ASIO are preferable.

Second, using WASAPI does not cause you to lose volume control in MC. That is just false.  You lose volume control if you disable volume, or if you bitstream.  I wonder if you turned on bitstreaming a long time ago to use with your "decoder" (what device is it, exactly?) and conflated the two. Bitstreaming is the only way to send multichannel audio over S/PDIF: that interface only allows 2-channel uncompressed audio; multichannel must be encoded and compressed to traverse the interface.  WASAPI is distinct from Bitstreaming.

I, along with thousands of others, have been using WASAPI for many years, and volume control on the PC works fine.

All the other "decoding" functions you refer to, having to do with multichannel audio, can be dealt with properly by MC without relying on the vagaries of DirectSound.  DirectSound is designed to be one-size-fits-all easy, not good.

[David Sydney]

mmm OK. My PC Audio exits via S/DIF Cooax to my Yamaha TSS-15 for PC sound (in my signature). Turned off bitream as you suggest to default setting. Using WASAPI sound output is direct (blue cog) and set as exclusive use in the settings by default I think - don't remeber changing that. I still do not get volume control at the PC end.

[wer]

With that device, if you want to send more than 2 channels, you would have to bitstream.  Therefore, you will not have volume control over multi-channel audio. That has nothing to do with WASAPI, and does not restrict you from having volume control over 2-channel audio.

Show a screenshot of Options->Audio for the zone. Make the dialog big enough we can see all the settings.
Show a screenshot of DSP Studio:Output Format for the zone.

And describe exactly what you mean by "I still do not get volume control at the PC end."  There is a volume control in the top left corner of the MC window. See they yellow line?  When you slide it up and down during playback, exactly what happens? And if you're thinking about replying "Nothing" make sure you pay attention to whether the amount of yellow in that line changes, and what happens in the text display at the top center of the window, where all your playback info is, when you are moving the volume control.

[David Sydney]

Clicking on the yellow volume control on top left does nothing to the volume output no matter where it is at. Clicking on the windows system volume icon (lower right) does nothing to change the output. Settinging for 5.1 zone Volume mode is on application as per screen shot. DSP is direct with volume leveling which does actually affect the volume level.

Audio settings for 5.1 zone is WASPIm , sub-dialog Exclusive. as mentioned volume mode is application - but I have tried volume mode on system also with no effect. Sound is straight out to the TSS-15 and volume I have to control on that box.

As it turns out Bitstream setting as None, or S/PDIF has no effect either for the zone.
 

[wer]

And describe exactly what you mean by "I still do not get volume control at the PC end."  There is a volume control in the top left corner of the MC window. See they yellow line?  When you slide it up and down during playback, exactly what happens? And if you're thinking about replying "Nothing" make sure you pay attention to whether the amount of yellow in that line changes, and what happens in the text display at the top center of the window, where all your playback info is, when you are moving the volume control.

All you said is effectively "it does nothing". So read what I said above, and please try answering my question again.  I want to know how the application reacts. When you move MC's volume slider, you should see the numbers in the text display at the top center change: Volume 80% (-10.0dB), 67%, 45% etc.  Those numbers are only visible while you are moving the volume control. If the app recognizes you are changing the volume, but the sound reaching your ears does not change, that means something different than if the application does not react at all to the volume control.

Next, change your volume mode to internal volume, and test again.

Make sure you are playing regular 2ch audio.

Can you confirm you are NOT using ZoneSwitch?  I want to make sure you are manually selecting a zone for playback, and that it's not automatically routing certain types of material to certain zones regardless of what you do.

[David Sydney]

Thanks Wer for your time. Yes the application responds when I change the Volume (yellow) bar. Yes the progress changes to show the percentage and db level. No the volume does not change out of the DAC. Yes changing the windows system volume bar changes or the windows volume mixer for the MC application registers the change - no the volume of the DAC output does not change.

No I do not have any zone switching rules setup, the only way to change the zone is Ctrl+T or clicking on the zone in the left Playing now window. In all the examples above I have been playing stereo music tracks not multichannel audio. If I played a multi channel DVD it switches automatically to AC3 etc. but still cannot control volume from MC or Windows.

Congratultions if I change to Volume mode "Internal" suddenly I have volume control!! Perhaps this should be set as the default setting because it was not when I setup on this new PC! As long as I do not tick "Loudness" it also stays as direct output. If I am in another application Windows volume setting still does not change - I have to switch back to MC to change the volume ouput. Thank you.

[wer]

Glad to help.

The reason you need to use internal volume is that in your case you have either a software problem with the driver, or a hardware limitation on the sound card, so that it does not respond to the regular volume control. MC was changing the volume, and the card was ignoring it. Some sound cards are like that.

But see? WASAPI is ok. 

Have fun...

[David Sydney]

It gets complicated... When I go back with these settings to play a DVD I get an error. No matter I think, I will go back to change it to bitstream S/PDIF I think as it does not seem to impact audo. So I flickback to bitsream S/PDIF, WASAPI, Internal Volume control. Sure the DVD plays fine this time with the opening credits, but then blasts my ear drums because it os playing at 100% volume in AC3 picked up by the DAC. An then again no matter what I do with MC Volume control or windows application or total system the volume level ignores it and I have to adjust it down on the DAc.

My sound 'card' is stock stand. Integrated 7.1 Realtek HD Audio on a Gigabyte motherboard. Output via display HDMI or S/PDIF coax which I am using. The TSS-15 does not have HDMI passthrough, it is sound only hence S/PDIF, just like my old PC with a gigabyte motherboard and realtek HDAudio built in? Maybe this is the original problem for Rocky - not setting using the bitstream setting.

Either way I am happy playing music. but when I play DVD surround I had better remeber to drop the TSS volume down otherwise it's nasty shock.

[wer]

Actually, you can do better than that, if you're willing to try something clever.

You got the error because you tried to play a DTS or AC3 source, with bitstreaming off. S/PDIF can't handle unencoded multichannel audio.  Bitstreaming passes encoded audio (like DTS) through MC unaltered. That is why volume control does not work with it: MC is not allowed to touch a signal it is bitstreaming.  But we can get around that; there are actually a couple of methods.

First: a new feature was added a while back that allows MC to manipulate a bitstream, but ONLY for volume...
See the little speaker icon to the left of MC's volume control? Right click it, and you will see an option for "enable volume when bitstreaming".  Try that, with bitstreaming ON in audio options, and see if it gives you the results you want. It will let you adjust the volume of the bitstream, and nothing else.

Make sense?

The Second thing might also interest you: You can go even further though, and be able to apply equalizer settings, effects, and everything else, even for your surround sound.

What you need is multiple zones, and Zoneswitch.

So ignore different physical devices for the moment; I'm just talking about outputting to your Yamaha.

Here's what you do:

You need two zones: call them Yamaha Audio, and Yamaha Surround.

Yamaha Audio, you setup exactly as I already described, WASAPI and no bitstreaming. DSP Output format should be as you had it in your screenshot: empty.

Now Yamaha Surround, you setup differently. Still WASAPI, still internal volume, still no bitstreaming.  But you activate the Output Format module, and you change your "Output Encoding" to Dolby Digital.

Here's what happens then with the Yamaha Surround zone: when you play a surround source, like your DVDs, MC will actually decode all the audio to PCM internally, in 64bit so the quality is perfect. It will then process the audio however you say, such as with volume leveling, or an equalizer, or with your manual volume adjustments.  Then, it will re-encode the audio as AC3 Dolby Digital and shoot it out the S/PDIF to your Yamaha.  You will get surround sound with volume control.

The catch is, you either have to remember to switch zones manually when you play content, so that you play audio content to the audio zone, and DVDs to the surround zone... OR, you setup ZoneSwitch, with a simple ruleset to do exactly that thing, and MC will play the right content to the right zone automatically.

Read here for more:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=76605.0

Why not just the surround zone and omit the audio zone?  That would work, but EVERYTHING would be encoded to AC3, including your regular 2-channel CD quality audio, and that would degrade the quality of your CD music. Having a separate audio zone prevents that from happening.

Make sense?

So if you're game to embark on the brave new world of a more advanced configuration, you can have everything you want.