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[Campaigner8]

I woke up, opened the newly downloaded MC 27. What I see are duplicates on a third of my albums in my library. I never had this problem with previous MC versions.

These aren't duplicates due to different formats, greatest hits compilations, or different versions of the same songs. It's entire albums downloaded with the same bit rate, etc.. All off of CD's downloaded once, with unique songs from the same artists. If I tried to delete these duplicate albums manually, it would take weeks, maybe longer? I looked through the forum but couldn't find answers to help me. I'm quite green when it comes to the JRiver Media Center, but here are my questions:

- Is there a tool to check/click that will bring up all albums with duplicates?
- If so, I could pick out the albums I want the duplicate songs to be deleted from, press delete, and I'm back in business. Is there a similar tool?

Could someone lead me in the right direction? Semi-step by step would be helpful.

Thanks, Campaigner8 - On fire, because I like fire!

[wer]

I'll try to give you a couple of suggestions to lead you in the right direction.

First, a simple google search of "jriver duplicate files" will give you several useful posts on how to address your question, which perhaps you missed when you looked through the forum. In fact, the very first result is this:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Duplicate_Files

...a wiki article that gives you a step by step method for finding duplicate files.

In fact, if you look in your Smartlists in the tree on the left side of your MC window, you will see that there is a pre-built Smartlist called "Audio -- Task -- Possible Duplicates".  So please do yourself a favor by remembering to avail yourself of the resources that already exist, and google is a great way to find them.  You will spend less time stuck this way, waiting for others to respond.  We're just users, just like you, helping you out of kindness in our free time.  Remember there is no perfect universal algorithm (step-by-step method) for identifying duplicate files, because ultimately it must be YOUR judgment as to which of two files is preferred and must be retained and the other deleted.

Second, I would recommend you post a screenshot, showing a list of files, including details like album, name, file name, etc. This will give people trying to help you a much greater understanding about the nature of your problem.  This is important because....

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, it's crucial to realize you're only looking at half the problem. I get that you see duplicates and want them gone. But you present yourself as being perplexed as to how this happened.  Your albums are not rabbits: they did not mysteriously reproduce themselves during the night without your help.  MC does not automatically duplicate files without user action. These duplicates are there for one or more of several very clear reasons, and you need to know why they're there, or you are going to have this problem again. 

So, you have copied some files without knowing it, or you have imported (either manually or through mis-configuring auto-import) from a place where these files already existed, or you've done a convert format even though you said you didn't, or you've imported duplicates from some other source.  It's a simple fact that SOMETHING must be different about the duplicates: at least the file name or folder.

A good detailed screenshot showing the details will help us help you figure it out. If you insist you have 2 copies of AC/DC Back in Black in your Library, then there are two copies of that on your filesystem. Where and why, are what we must determine.

Then you can delete them, and make sure you don't have this problem again.  No it doesn't take weeks. That's silly. Tracks can be selected and deleted en masse in MC, so that you can get rid of thousands of files in a couple of seconds, if that's what you want to do. You might for example decree that all tracks created in the last 48 hours are duplicates. If you get all your duplicates in one view or playlist, Ctrl-A will select them all, and hitting the Del button will delete them all. Simple.

So take a look at that article and the others, take a look at your situation, and if you need more help figuring it out, give us a good screenshot and some more details.

Good hunting...

[Campaigner8]

I'm still at work trying to solve my duplicate problem, without success. I tried your suggestions, and many others. I have not failed ridding MC 27 for lack of trying, as I've spent over 16 hours on the attempted deletion of duplicates. So many JRiver support suggestions, and internet searches. On top of going through all of the tools on the player, over and over. I eventually took a day off.

I'll describe my situation better in step form, and provide some screenshots to help solve my duplicate song problem on MC 27. I'm going to provide additional information in the first steps, regarding how I arrived with music files in different formats, and related problems. I don't want to leave anything out, without being overly redundant. Tell me if I provided too much information, to help me with future posts.

Step by step:

1. I imported my entire library with some 1700 Cd's on to iTunes in the Apple Lossless format. When PonoWorld shut down, I purchased the JRiver Media Center (MC from here on in).

2. Everything on my iTunes synced perfectly with the JRiver MC 27, and were synced automatically in the m4a format on my JRiver MC player. New files on my iTunes player in the AIFF format also synced perfectly with MC 27 (about 100 CD's).

3. Life was busy with a new child and work, so I didn't utilize the MC Player, my Pono player, iTunes, or much on my computer for a few years. Just used my home stereo for music.

4. I listened to my Pono about six months ago, and was motivated to get my music files in order with the MC player.

5. My laptop totally crashed for good. I purchased a new laptop (Windows 10 - 2 TB, purchased some 4 months ago). A good thing was that I had a back up of my CD library (Apple Lossless only) on an external hard drive. Bad, as I used the Copytrans Tuneswift app to back up my music library. I had a problem restoring my library with their software app. In the meantime of back and forth emails to Copytran's support, I imported about 100 CD's onto iTunes in a new format (AIFF - 16 bit - 44 khz). 100 plus CD's that were imported onto iTunes for the first time. Copytrans Tuneswift's app locks your files, and are only compatible with iTunes, which is a problem. The restore feature only works on a new laptop if it has no new music imported. I imported the 100 plus Cd's on the new laptop. That was a problem as Copytrams Tuneswift only will restore your library from an external hard drive as an identical install of your former iTunes player. Otherwise, Copytrans Tuneswift overwrites your iTunes media file, leaving the hundred new imports off of the player. You can't combine the two files.

5-A. In the last week, I imported the 1700 plus CDs to my iTunes player from the external hard drive. iTunes now had two files you could not merge. The JRiver MC player synced all of my music (both iTunes files). That consisted of the roughly 1700 Cd's on iTunes Lossless newly restored, and the 100 plus Cd's newly installed on my new laptop. Great to see all of my music library on one player, being MC 27.

6. Now working exclusively on the MC 27 player, I had about 1700 music files in the m4a format. Another 100, or so in the AIFF format.


7. I thought I would just simply have to change the format of my entire library to the AIFF format, and I would be set to tackle my Pono player.
The m4a music files did convert to the aiff format upon syncing with MC 27. When converting to the AIFF format. it left a m4a file, or more than one, plus the newly created AIFF file.  . As well, the aiff conversion produced many duplicates. Many files that were already in the AIFF format were also duplicated, or multi-duplicated.  I think I should have ticked the box that essentially read "on conversion, ignore music files that are already converted to your chosen format". I don't recall where I saw it, but it's there somewhere on the MC 27
player. If I would have ticked the box mentioned above, would that have solved the AIFF duplicate problem? I only converted part of my music library, as I could see I would eventually use all 2 TBs on my system if I continued converting in the AIFF format, with so many duplicates?

8. Your suggestion of showing identical duplicates did not work, as they aren't identical. Some duplicates are m4a, and others are aiff ('aif' it reads).
I don't have a smartlist. What is a smartlist for, and would that help to locate duplicates? Once the duplicate problem is solved, I'm going to convert my entire library to the FLAC format, Make sense?

9. I searched the forum, high and low, as well as the internet. I opened every option, but nothing I tried remotrly worked, or made sense to me. At least as far as the many tools available on the MC 27 player is concerned. I'm certainly not placing any blame on the MC 27 player. I am having trouble navigating and finding answers to solve my problem, as it pertains to duplicates. From much reading of duplicate problems, there are many different ones. As I said in my last post, I am relatively computer green. Though, I can follow instructions.

10. I have a lot of screenshots. I'll provide screenshots I believe may be useful.

Note screenshot attachments: Up to 6 duplicates of one song. Most have original and one duplicate, some have the original and two duplicates, and that makes it more confusing. Why six copies of Mr. Bojangles? I purchased it once on the iTunes store. Most singles are my daughter's Apple store single purchases.

After all that, are there any more suggestions?

Thanks So Much,

Campaigner 8 - aka: Scott K.

[Campaigner8]

More screenshots that did not load. All in one place, including the 9 'Mr. Bojangles' song file attachment.

[wer]

Yes, the suggestion is to try the smartlist I mentioned in the first post.  So to continue...

The screenshots help.  Some of them cut off some crucial filename info on the right, but I've seen enough for now.

First, we've established this happened (at least a lot of it) because of conversions. Better not do any more until you know what you're doing. We could speculate on how the same file got into the conversion queue multiple times, but when you see the files with (1) or (2) at the end of the filename, that's what happened.

Regarding your point #8:You didn't really try my suggestion (correctly) about duplicates because you couldn't find the smartlist. 

In fact, if you look in your Smartlists in the tree on the left side of your MC window, you will see that there is a pre-built Smartlist called "Audio -- Task -- Possible Duplicates". 

The good news is that you're mistaken, you do have smartlists. Everyone does, because they're installed with MC.  Look at your first screenshot: look in the lower left corner, above the picture, above where it says "Recently Imported", open your eyes and what do you see???  Go in there and find the smartlist I mentioned earlier.

And if you expand the tree where it says "Smartlists" and you see nothing in there, that's because you deleted them. So then you should right-click on where it says Playlists, and select "Add stock smartlists".  Then they will all be there, including the one I mentioned.

Read more about smartlists: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Smartlists

So find that smartlist I mentioned before, and use it.  It will help you identify duplicates.  It will try and identify duplicates based on matching the tags, so you will see multiple files, with matching tags, but the filename will be different.  If will find them if they are different formats. You can help yourself by adding a "Date Created" column to the list: right-click on the column headers to do so.  The Date Created column will show you when each file was created, so you can tell new ones from old ones. Delete the files you don't want.

I don't have a crystal ball to tell you how you created 6 copies of Mr Bojangles; my guess is that you accidentally added things to the conversion queue multiple times. You'll need to be more careful.  No point debating the cause with me, you'll have to figure that out for yourself; no one else can tell you what you did.

[Campaigner8]

Thanks Wer,

Here is a screenshot of my Smartlist and possible duplicates. It says 14,085 files, and I only went to Bob Dylan in my conversion to AIFF. If I did my entire library past the letter 'B', I would use all of my 2 Tbs really quickly. Why some duplicated and others didn't is a riddle to me. I just bought that Time-Life 70's country box set. Downloaded only once for sure. Yet, three copies of each song over 6 discs?

[Campaigner8]

Hi Wer,

I apologize for not including I had found the Smartlist that I just posted a screenshot of. I just didn't know what to do from there with the Smartlist information on duplicates. So much information on my mind about the situation. I never make grammar or spelling errors. Yet, I see errors in my post. I'm tired, please forgive me for not being as concise about the Smartlist as I should have been.

Any other screenshots you would like to see?

Thanks,

Scott

[wer]

Nope. Now that you have the smartlist, use it to identify and delete the files you don't want.

You asked how to find duplicates.  You've got it.

[Campaigner8]

At this point, even with the Smartlist, manual deletion is the only solution I could find. I've searched the forums for hours on end.
My problem never has come up with a solution.

There has to be an easier way?

[Campaigner8]

Hi Wer,

Even with the smartlist of duplicates, it still is manual deletion. Then the format change I need for my high def Pono handheld player.

Further format changes will create more duplicates. Don't I need to discover the cause?

As I cited, I've only converted files up to 'B' as in Bob Dylan. Over 14,000 files up to 'B'. That's a lot of manual deletions, as I can't copy and delete
more than one album at a time. I have nearly 1900 albums on the player. With one to two duplicates average per album, that is 5750 albums that need deletion.
That is about 12 to 14 hours to delete my library albums duplicates. Then, if it happens again. Yikes!


 

[wer]

I don't understand what you're asking.

Deleting files is a manual process, although you can select multiple files at once, or filter them using additional criteria.

You have to select the files to delete, and hit the delete key.

Were you expecting the computer to read your mind and delete the ones you mentally didn't want, and keep the ones you did?

No, there is no "Delete all the files I don't want" button. You must select them.

[wer]

If you don't want the work of deleting the duplicates, maybe you should delete all your music files and restore from backup again.  Then you would be starting over.

[Campaigner8]

Wer, are you saying I can highlight the tracks I want to be deleted on multiple albums while saving only the wanted tracks? How do you highlight the wanted deletes on a number of albums, while saving the tracks I want? If I use shift to highlight the wanted deletes, how do I bypass the ones I want in my library? Should I delete them off the system completely, so they won't reappear?

I may be annoying you as per my lack of understanding, but that is the opposite of my intention. Actually, I am grateful for the time you have spent on MY problem. As you said, this is my problem. I concur completely.

You are a good teacher, and I admire that. It is just a matter of time before I learn the in and outs of the media center. Then, I can follow in your footprints in helping others. That is my ultimate goal.

In actuality, there have to be other MC users with a similar problem. My posts combined with your answers will help many others.

[AndrewFG]

I think you can select multiple files (e.g for deletion) by holding down CTRL and clicking on each of the respective files.

[Campaigner8]

Thanks Andrew,

I can't wrap my head around how you can save one of three duplicated tracks.

If that works, I will happily do the deletions. I'll try it now.

[Campaigner8]

Hi Andrew,

To my dismay, following your directions, it did not work to choose an album on the Smartlist with the control button pushed down. On the smartlist of "possible duplicates", it appears you still have to delete tracks one at a time. Not even an album at a time, let alone multiple albums at a time. Somebody, please tell and show me how I am mistaken.

Wer said something to the effect of "the player can't read your mind and figure out the tracks you want to keep or delete by simply pushing a button". I think something like that could be configured into the MC system.

On the smartlist, it is showing duplicates including the one AIFF file I want to keep. I think there could be a tool where you highlight all of the duplicates. Then you could choose the files you want to keep or delete by choosing the format. In my case, on a drop-down menu, there could be an option of files you want to keep or delete by choosing the format. I could choose on a drop-down menu the file format I want to keep or delete. For example: I want to keep one AIFF file of each song on the album or smartlist. I could choose with my smartlist "possible duplicates" open. I would select something like "keep one track on each album you have highlighted by format type. I would click a drop-down menu and choose "delete all tracks that are not an AIFF formatted file". Or the opposite, being "remove all but one track of each duplicated song of this format". I would click the drop-down menu and choose 'AIFF'  format. Press delete, and I would be left with one track of each song that is AIFF formatted. Wouldn't something like that work?

Even with the Smartlist open, it appears right now that I still have to delete duplicated tracks one by one. If you have two tracks, one M4A formatted, and the other AIFF formatted; I still have to click the one unwanted M4A file and delete them one at a time. I hope somebody proves me wrong, as that makes little sense to me.

[JimH]

You may be importing from a Network Share once and then again from the same location if you've set it up with a drive letter.  Z: for example.

Take two of the duplicated files and look at the path in the tooltip.  Look carefully at the location.

If that's the case, you can sort by location to separate them so you can delete one set.

Look at your auto  import settings to see if you can see it.

[Campaigner8]

I did not change my drive letter at all. I read why some people do it with good reason, but that isn't a problem.

Does your Smartlist have to look smart? I'm not trying to be funny, as under "Smartlist - Audio - Task - Possible duplicates," there are a few Dylan songs, then a George Jones part album, followed by a Bryan Ferry part album, and then misc. songs in no particular order (see attachment). These songs in small batches are part of a full album full of duplicates, but fragmented in the "Smartfile - Audio - Task- Possible Duplicates" file. I look at these albums on the MC player, and even though there are duplicates, they are all filed and organized correctly on the right album. Is my Smartlist in need of some organizing before I figure out how to delete more than one song at once? If so, how do I organize the Smartlist, so it is logical? Should the duplicated albums not be combined in alphabetical order on the Smartfile?

I am concerned my entire library is in a mess. I want to relax and listen to some music instead of dozens of hours of troubleshooting MC problems. It's kind of like knowing iTunes is a poor player that used to produce duplicates and multi-duplicates of songs regularly. Then, one day I updated iTunes and didn't have a duplicate problem with their player since Apple somehow addressed their duplicate song problem, which leads me to believe JRiver can do the same. I am not comparing the poorly designed iTunes player to the far superior JRiver Media Center, except for the duplicate problem. The printscreen image below shows how many duplicated albums and song files are not arranged together and fragmented. Is that normal, or in need of fixing?

What I am trying to say is I may have done something incorrectly, but fixing the duplicate problem on MC shouldn't duplicate my headache from staying up overnight again, trying to fix the problem. Why hasn't the option of choosing Smartlist - Audio - Task - Possible Duplicates" have a different solution to deleting duplicates than picking one song at a time from "albums" and having to delete the wrongly formatted duplicate, one song at a time?

As I said, I'm new to learning how JRiver operates. Though, duplicate problems or any difficulty with the MC player should not have me still searching for a solution after 36 hours, as of right now.

[JimH]

Pick any pair of files and look at the name and the location.  What are they?

MC doesn't make duplicates.

[Campaigner8]

Hi JimH,

Here is Adam Cohen's "We Go Home" album with file information shown in a screenshot. (attachment)

It appears identical with these exceptions:

1. The first difference in file information is that one is in an M4A format, and the other three files are in an AIFF format. There are four copies of each song on this album I just received from Amazon two weeks ago. I performed one import on iTunes, and it synced to the MC player seamlessly. The duplicates only developed after doing a file conversion from M4A to AIFF; but why four copies of each song on this album, compared to two or three total on most?

2. The second difference appears in the file information, being the M4A file which was imported originally on iTunes. The other three AIFF files are numbered one, two, and three, except for one. I'm sure the unnumbered file converted to AIFF is the original conversion. The numbered AIFF files, one, two, and three are duplicates of the unnumbered AIFF file. I don't know how, but they must be. The files as are numbered AIFF 2, AIFF 3, and AIFF 1, which is even more confusing. Why would that be?

I don't know how I could have made the duplicates if the MC player can't. If the MC 27 player didn't create duplicates, triplicates, quadruples, and a replication up to nine total copies, how could they have been produced so erratically as far as the number of copies, and the original import?

I don't really need to know how it occurred unless it will happen again. I believe it will unless I get to the cause of the problem. I think you are saying I created them somehow. I'm not certain I could do it if I wanted to. I don't know what I don't know.

Note: If you can't see the far right of the file, move the slider just below the screenshot's taskbar, and it will show the far right.

[wer]

Campaigner, I'm trying to help (as is everyone else), but I think this will probably be the last time I post here, because this thread is becoming absurd.  I know you are frustrated and confused, but you have to get past that and adjust your approach and expectations, because a lot of your expectations are unreasonable.  You keep expressing disbelief and asking for things to be different than they are, instead of moving forward. I'd continue to try if I thought it would help, but I'm not confident it would.

Sometimes in life, we can get ourselves into messes where we can't see how to get ourselves out.  That happens...

I think you should strongly consider calling someone, like Geek Squad at Best Buy or a friend with technical skills, to come in either in-person or via remote access software, to clean up your mess for you.

I'll try to address some specific points you raised:

...but why four copies of each song on this album, compared to two or three total on most?

Because you screwed up when adding things to the conversion queue.

2. ...Why would that be?

I don't know how I could have made the duplicates if the MC player can't. If the MC 27 player didn't create duplicates, triplicates, quadruples, and a replication up to nine total copies, how could they have been produced so erratically as far as the number of copies, and the original import?

Because you screwed up, and added things to the conversion queue multiple times.

Please understand that with Jim said "MC doesn't create duplicates" what he meant was "MC doesn't create duplicates on its own without your help."  You did this. If your car is in your swimming pool, it didn't just happen. Someone drove it in. Maybe not "intentionally".  Maybe "accidentally" in that they had their eyes closed, or they were drunk and don't remember. But they drove it in.  No one can tell you how you did it, unless you had a video camera pointed at your computer.

I would strongly recommend to you that you stop trying to ask about how this happened, because you lack the expertise to determine the answer, and instead focus on cleaning up the mess.

When that is done, you might want to start a new thread on "How can I safely convert the format of my files without causing problems?" and people can try and help you with that.

What I am trying to say is I may have done something incorrectly, but fixing the duplicate problem on MC shouldn't duplicate my headache from staying up overnight again, trying to fix the problem

Have you ever heard the expression "a bull in a china shop"?  It means a lot of damage can be done it a short time when due care is not taken.  And yes, cleaning up such a mess may well take much longer than creating it, or starting over.  That is life.  It is easier to destroy than it is to create, or set right.

Why hasn't the option of choosing Smartlist - Audio - Task - Possible Duplicates" have a different solution to deleting duplicates than picking one song at a time from "albums" and having to delete the wrongly formatted duplicate, one song at a time?

Because up until now, with you and this thread, no one has ever had such difficulty in following instructions to delete duplicates.  The existing tools and techniques have proved adequate for many years, for other people.

If you feel that MC is not the software you need to clean up your duplicate mess, you can do a google search for "duplicate file remover". There are lots of programs out there that specialize in that.  You would have to make sure to find one that is able to understand all the tags in your music files, and able to use those tags for identifying duplicates. Then you would have to ask on the forums for that software package regarding problems using it, as people here won't know about it.

I am concerned my entire library is in a mess. I want to relax and listen to some music instead of dozens of hours of troubleshooting MC problems.

It is. It is going to take you a while to clean up that mess.  If you don't want to deal with it, then call someone to come in and do it for you.

As I said, I'm new to learning how JRiver operates. Though, duplicate problems or any difficulty with the MC player should not have me still searching for a solution after 36 hours, as of right now.

If you had spent the time deleting duplicates, instead of expressing disbelief, you would probably be done now.

...how do I organize the Smartlist, so it is logical? Should the duplicated albums not be combined in alphabetical order on the Smartfile?

You will find that if you click on the column headers in the file list (column headers are the uppermost word in each column) you can SORT the list however you want. Click on Name first, and then click on Album. You will see the list is then sorted by Album then track name.


So here are some tips to help you get started deleting:

First, watch this tutorial to learn how to select multiple files at the same time in Windows. The video uses Windows Explorer, but the techniques operate in MC too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX6cMrdjV8g

To my dismay, following your directions, it did not work to choose an album on the Smartlist with the control button pushed down. On the smartlist of "possible duplicates", it appears you still have to delete tracks one at a time. Not even an album at a time, let alone multiple albums at a time. Somebody, please tell and show me how I am mistaken.
...
Even with the Smartlist open, it appears right now that I still have to delete duplicated tracks one by one. If you have two tracks, one M4A formatted, and the other AIFF formatted; I still have to click the one unwanted M4A file and delete them one at a time. I hope somebody proves me wrong, as that makes little sense to me.

We've tried to explain before how to select tracks more easily.  Watch the video I linked to.  Now, once you have watched it, I sense that you will still refuse to delete files, because you seem to be insisting you have to be able to select the files you want to keep, instead of the files you want to delete.

Fine, you can do that.  Here's how:

First start small. Go to the album with the Mr Bojangles duplicates.

Click ONE file in the file list. It doesn't matter which one. You will see that file selected.
Hit Ctrl-A on you keyboard.   You will see ALL files are selected.
Now, hold down the Ctrl key on your keyboard, and click the ONE file you want to keep.  (You could even Ctrl-click on another file to keep that one too!)
You will see that file becomes UNselected.
Now release the Ctrl key, and hit the Del key.
In the dialog that comes up, select the option to "Remove from Media Library and send to the Recycle bin".

That is how you select a file to KEEP, while DELETING ALL THE OTHERS.  I hope that is clear.
You can do this while looking at an individual album, or while looking at the smartlist of all duplicates.

You have never explained to us your rationale for deciding which file is the one to keep. When you are looking at that list of Bojangles, you are mentally making some kind of decision. Your criteria will be different than that of someone else.  You might say it's the oldest file. Or the newest. Or the largest. Or the oldest that's not an AIFF.  It's YOUR criteria, and your decision. That is why the computer can't make the selection for you.

As I have tried to explain before, there are other things that could be done to make the task easier. You can add a column for file format (e.g. AIFF vs M4A) to the duplicates list or your view, and sort by that.  You could create an entire new view that would only show certain file times, or would restrict files by date.  I am not going to explain those, because executing them is beyond your skill level and would only complicate things further.  I'm not trying to be mean, but it's just the reality that you need to get yourself out of this problem using only very simple techniques.

You asked previously, and rightly so, about don't you have to understand how you did it to avoid doing it again.  Well, yes, there is a very great danger of your making another mess like this, unless you are very careful.  You need to better learn about MC though, before you will be able to understand what happened.  Your MC knowledge is at this point extremely limited, so you need to be very careful.

There are some introductory videos that might help you a bit to become more familiar.  Take a look here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111775.0.html

So I suggest you start on one of these approaches:
1. Start deleting files using the techniques explained to you. If you can't, then...
2. Delete everything, and restore from backup and start over. If you won't, then...
3. Call someone in to help you.

I think #3 gives you the best chance of a happy outcome.

I'm sorry you had this problem and that you're having such difficulty fixing it.  I wish you the very best of luck in cleaning this up to your satisfaction.

[Campaigner8]

Hi Wer,

I agree with mostly all things you said. You wrapped up your support with me. I keep in mind that I have the problem, and you are the person who has tried very hard to help me help myself—a noble cause and effort on your part. I thank you for that. This has been a learning experience.

I compare my situation with MC 27, much like a person who has a set of problems like needing to fix a relatively nice car.

They have a few choices as to repairing the car, which would be similar to needing to fix my duplicates on my MC 27 player. The choices being, or related to the following:

1. They have identified the problem as being engine related. The car won't start without a boost and makes strange noises when driving it.

2. They aren't stupid, and they have full access to manuals, tools, and a shop equipped to fix their car. They want to fix it themselves to learn more about car repair. I want to fix a problem associated with my computer apps. Why not learn more about this computer app, and increase my general knowledge base? I may never be a computer expert. I've always said that it is better to know a little about most things in this world, opposed to knowing a lot about one thing at the expense of minimal general knowledge about many things.

3. They can easily pay someone to fix their car but insist that learning how to fix it themselves will increase their knowledge base and help them fix similar problems in the future. Once they figure it out, with help from manuals and individuals more competent than themselves, they are better-rounded people for the knowledge and experience they gained. They didn't know anything about repairing a modern vehicle before the breakdown, and now they do. It was frustrating at times, but not giving up is a positive attribute. That is more or less how I feel about repairing the MC 27 player. I am the first to admit that I'm not naturally gifted in computer skills, but endeavor to be more competent in this field.

4. You are comparing my problem to driving my car into a swimming pool. then asking, "how did I do that?" I don't think that comparison is fair, but I can deal with it.
It is actually kind of funny; it made me laugh out loud for real!

5. I know I won't convince you that I imported 1700 CDs once onto my iTunes player over many years. I included the following in previous posts. I am reiterating these points as I get the impression that you thought I handled my own backup without a third-party app's assistance. Using that app to backup all of my Apple Lossless files figured somehow into this duplicate issue. As you read forward, keep in mind that the app forced me to restore my library on two files in which the only one synced onto my iTunes files after the restore is the one performed by the app. I imported another one hundred CDs onto my iTunes player in the last month. They merged perfectly onto the MC 27 Media player. As I said in a post, my last laptop had bit the biscuit (fried), and I needed to use my backup off of my external hard drive using a third-party app purchased from 'Copytrans' to restore my library. If you don't know Copytrans, they have an associated app on their control center called 'Tuneswift. Tuneswift works exclusively with iTunes players for external hard drive backups. My Tuneswift created backup files made by Tuneswift onto my external hard drive are locked files, only accessible through the Tuneswift app. We both know why they use locked files. If they had to close their business, my 1700 Cd's would have been unrecoverable. A few sites reviewing their app said that even a knowledgeable computer tech would have difficulty recovering Tuneswift's locked files without their software. I wouldn't have wasted my money on an otherwise excellent app before my purchase had I known about the locked files. I also pointed out that their app did cause a problem, as it won't restore a library onto one's iTunes media folder if you downloaded even one CD onto iTunes on a new laptop/PC. I didn't know this and imported over one hundred CDs onto my new laptop's iTunes program. So, when I ultimately restored my iTunes library, the app automatically overrights your iTunes media file and puts your iTunes media library into a newly created file. Now I have two iTunes media files. One that contains the 1700 Cds recovered by Tuneswift from my external hard drive onto my new laptop. The other iTunes file consists of some 100 Cds I imported for the first time onto iTunes before performing my new computer's 1700 CD recovery. These two files won't merge together on iTunes, but you can switch between the two libraries to access your iTunes music. Itunes overrighted the original file, and now it's named Maria's library. Maria is the tech support person I dealt with regarding my Tuneswift recovery on my newly "not so new laptop" since I imported those 100 new CDs while awaiting her long-awaited support reply. I contacted Copytrans support twice. That was unfortunate to find out what will happen to my iTunes files while recovering my library from my external hard drive, but completely true. The good news being MC 27 synced both iTunes files that automatically synced to the player in one file. Around 1700 Cds synced in the M4A file format (Apple Lossless), and another one hundred plus CDs imported in the AIFF format available on iTunes. If I had checked the box reading something like "ignore the files that are already going to be converted to your chosen format that your files are already formatted to," the AIFF files on the one hundred plus CDs would not have produced any duplicates. So, my lack of knowledge to check that box likely did cause those one hundred or so AIFF duplicates almost for certain. I will not be using Tuneswift for any future backups.

6. I also said I initially purchased the JRiver Media Center because I own a Pono handheld media player and have a killer home stereo. Having children and such had me delaying getting my Pono handheld in order, including the MC media player. It has only been in the last five days that I took my first look into how MC 27 works. I had previous MC versions in the past but never used it as a music player or for any media. My last imports on iTunes were in the AIFF format; therefore, I decided to convert my entire library to that format. I didn't want to mess anything up extensively, so after reading many forum submissions on "how to convert your music library files to a different format," I followed the directions and only converted part of my library one time. I know you don't believe I did only one conversion. Why would I do a second conversion after I saw the huge duplicate problem? I formatted the M4A files all in order starting at 'A' and ending partway through 'C' during my only conversion. How could one conversion change some Cd's into two, three, four, or more AIFF duplicates in such randomness? You answered that question through speculation, as you did with many others. I also understand it doesn't matter now how it happened, except that I am like that novice car repair person who wants to know and learn more about computers. Is that really wrong to understand the "why," which leads to learning the "how?" Everybody started somewhere. You say I'm one of a few rare cases who experience duplicates as I have. Looking extensively through the MC forum posts as I have recently, there are many unique situations. Those supposed rare experiences have shown up as cases similar to mine. That is where I followed many suggestions unsuccessfully, as did the original poster. The main difference is that most of these people with similar duplicate problems were not only frustrated, but big-time pissed off. Pissed off to the point that their final posts read that they had enough and were giving up. Why give up if you are a persistent learner? 

Anyways, thank you again. I will look again at your last fix suggestions and get at 'er! - Campaigner8

[Campaigner8]

As I am winding up this problem, please understand my previous posts, and this post was all written from my point of view. I never intended to offend anyone with my information or comments. If I have offended anybody, I humbly apologize.

Upon reflection, I think my analogy of the novice who wants to repair his car himself is very similar to my situation. Let me add to that analogy, along with some observations.

I was told more than once, "MC doesn't make duplicates." Fair enough, but that information in repetition wouldn't help me solve my duplicated music file situation.

I'm looking at my predicament this way. I'll continue with expanding my analogy.

Let me call the novice car repairman Bob, and the shop owner Jim, for ease of understanding.

Bob dived into his car repair project by using his friend Jim's shop's On-Board Diagnostics to ascertain what his car troubles were. He discovered that his transmission required repair.

He received advice from Jim, studied manuals, and purchased the parts to fix his transmission. He worked day and night and received more advice from Jim and others, but he essentially repaired it himself. Yet, his car was not repaired correctly, or so he thought. Bob was confused and reached out to Jim to come by the shop to understand where he had gone wrong. At first, Jim was utterly confused about what Bob described that should have fixed Bob's transmission. He ran a brief diagnostic evaluation once more, which pointed to the engine compartment as being the culprit. Jim popped open the hood, and he couldn't believe his eyes, as the radiator was missing.

This was beyond perplexing, as he had known Bob since school. He thought to himself; Bob isn't the type to be playing practical jokes on anyone, especially me. He had no choice but to be completely blunt with Bob. Jim said, "your radiator is missing. Why would you remove your radiator?" Bob, even more perplexed, replied, "come on, Jim, you know I never removed my radiator. I didn't go near it, as it was a transmission fix.". Jim retorts, "you know that radiators don't walk out of my shop on their own?" Jim had an alarmed shop, and security cameras were covering all entrances and exits to his shop. He also knew that only Jim and himself had a key and the security code to turn on and off the alarm. Security cameras were not installed on the inside of his repair shop, as he was a one-person operation. Bob's radiator was nowhere to be found in Jim's tiny shop, and security footage showed Bob had not gone near his radiator. Jim also knew that Bob or no one had removed the radiator before he brought his car into his shop, as he reviewed the original diagnostics that pointed only to his transmission as the only problem. Most people who heard this story from Jim simply dismissed the tale as fiction. Others said things like Bob knows a lot about security systems and is messing with you. Others said this is a Houdini job, as no one can say how this occurred. One said, it doesn't really matter how it occurred, as he needs a new radiator installed. Sure enough, a new radiator was installed by Bob, and the car fired up and ran without a problem.

That analogy applies to my duplicate problem, without beating it to death, as follows. Firstly, as I pointed out earlier, some said that MC doesn't make duplicates on its own. As well, you did something wrong, as you imported your songs and made the format conversion yourself. As well, no one to blame but yourself, even if I can't tell you how the duplicates were made, unless cameras recording your every action on the MC player, backup restores, and so forth. Some comments basically said, you may or may not realize exactly what you did wrong, but you are responsible for the duplicates. Lastly, what do you want me to do about it, as it's your problem?


I was led to believe that the forum was enacted to help people solve their problems with the MC player by other users who had already spent much time learning it's various functions. I didn't think the forum was put in place to blame anyone for what they were trying to understand but were unable to. I think the forum wasn't put forth for harsh reality therapy? I do understand how first thoughts do go in that direction. As in my comment, was there a tool that made it easy to remove unwanted duplicates? I was basically told that this question wasn't reasonable to put forward. There are so many useful tools on JRiver MC; I think my question as it pertains to an easy fix tool was reasonable to ask. I'm putting my thoughts forward, but I'm a big boy and can handle anyone's possibly unnecessary comments.

I likely caused the problem. I posted my problem and told my story as to what I had done. I realized I had to do the work or hire it out. However, as a novice, I felt I needed to learn how it happened, in order to help me become more adept with the media center in the future.


There is no shame in asking for help from others more knowledgeable than myself or yourself with the MC or any other topic where there is a lack of knowledge or ineptitude. As long as you are willing to learn, asking for help should be well received. As in my case, I don't grasp computer problems in general easily. I've learned a lot through asking for help, then doing by myself. Ultimately, I learned a lot through your many post suggestions, older posts, and by studying the MC player's many options.

I feel confident that it won't be long before I can answer people's posted questions on the forum.

Thanks again,

Campaigner8

PS - My point to the post: Most people would say, they don't care what the camera's show, Bob removed his own radiator (for reasons unknown). That is similar to my duplicates where most think, he created the duplicates, and he knows it. I believe you shouldn't assume things based on a hunch.
 

[w_axlrose1]

Assuming all of the AIFF files are indeed conversions of the original M4A files then my approach would be to go to Audio > Files then under the File Types window select AIFF so it only displays AIFF files. Then select all and delete. I'd then start the conversion process all over again. Select all of your M4A files, select Library Tools > Convert Format, hit the go button and then go to bed.

[Campaigner8]

Assuming all of the AIFF files are indeed conversions of the original M4A files, then my approach would be to go to Audio > Files, then under the File Types window, select AIFF, so it only displays AIFF files. Then select all and delete. I'd then start the conversion process all over again. Select all of your M4A files, select Library Tools > Convert Format, hit the go button, and then go to bed.

I know this may be complicated to explain, but please bear with me.

That idea in the quote above would work perfectly if my duplicate situation weren't so complicated. If I didn't have 120 albums that were recently imported in the AIFF format on my iTunes player, that would be the way to go (explained below). If I could somehow separate those 120 albums from the other AIFF files, it would have been completed. Thanks for the suggestion.

My library was originally synced from iTunes to the MC player from two iTunes files. Why two, you may ask? The two file dilemma is explained further down. All were in the M4A format except for about 120 CDs. I bought a new laptop and was having trouble restoring my music library from an external hard drive using third party software from Copytrans named 'Tuneswift.' While waiting for Coptrans support to answer my questions, I imported about 120 CDs onto iTunes in the AIFF format. A bad idea, as Copytrans told me, their program would not restore my 1700 CD library in the M4A format and merge that file with the newly imported 120 CDs in the AIFF format. Copytrans Tuneswift locks its files when you perform a backup on iTunes. I had no choice but to use Copytrans Tuneswift to restore my 1700 CD library to my new computer. The 1700 CDs in the M4A file were the only CD files on my external hard drive. The other 120 AIFF Cds are in a separate iTunes file, unmerged on iTunes. Tuneswift created an overwritten file when I used their program. Copytrans support said you couldn't merge the files, thus the existence of two iTunes files.

Fortunately, the JRiver MC recognized the two iTunes files and merged them together on their player. I only converted files on MC 27 up to the letter 'C' in the AIFF format. I did the limited conversion to the AIFF format to test things out. As you can see below in the screenshots of the Smartlist - "Possible Duplicates," the limited conversion did not go too well. My MC 27 library now consists of the following:

1. Every file up to the letter 'C' has M4A and AIFF files with many duplicates. Some albums have only one duplicate. Other files have three, four, five, and up to nine originals and duplicates. The 120 CDs up to the letter 'C' have only one duplicate. The original in the AIFF format, and the duplicate is also in the AIFF format. If I choose to delete all files in the AIFF format, I will delete all 120 CDs that were originally imported onto iTunes in the AIFF format. That would mean that I would have to import 120 CD's from scratch again, one by one.

This is my thought right now. I should delete my entire library to make the player like it is newly purchased. It is just a matter of having the proper backup to reinstall my library that is in two files. Right now, when I delete MC 27, I only check the first box that reads, "Remove all media center registry entries." I want to check the second uninstall box that reads, "Remove media center library files." Uninstalling then reinstalling MC 27 with only the first box checked has my library automatically load as it was before - with all duplicates intact. If I checked the second box during a uninstall/reinstall of MC 27, how do I ensure that my backup is the original one with 1700 M4A files and the 120 AIFF files? Those files exist as just described, as iTunes is exactly the same before I did the format change (and the duplicates appeared only after the one partial format change. There is also the second iTunes file with the 120 CDs that I imported onto iTunes (overly redundant, but trying to clarify what has occurred).


Could someone help me with this question? Where would the file be with all of the originals and duplicates be? Is the file only in on my MC 27 player as the backup file? If I uninstalled MC 27 and removed my library, then checked the first and second box for the uninstall, wouldn't the MC 27 player automatically load my iTunes library as it has always had done (as iTunes is synced with my MC 27 player)? Or, how could I make a back up of the two iTunes files without the duplicates, so it ignores the current backup file? How could I do that?

When I navigate to Smartlists and "Possible Duplicates," there are 14,085 files. When I followed WERs instructions, the MC player kept freezing. I tried the task manager and other suggested ways to escape the MC 27 frozen player. Ultimately I had no choice but to hit the manual power button to shut down and restart my computer. One time it brought up an error box citing the shutdown caused problems with the player. I had to click a fix, and all seemed right; however, that might not always be the case. My new laptop (about four months old) has never frozen except when I've had the Smartlist "Possible Duplicates" open. That is one more reason to delete everything and start from scratch. It is only the situation with my backup, and whether I even need it. As I see it, if I delete the player and the library, then reinstall the player; I think it will automatically sync with my two iTunes media folders as it did before. Load the files automatically, and then I can sleep. Any thoughts on that? (Two attachments - Smartlist "Possible Duplicates - different views - Note amount of tracks at the bottom of the Smartlist duplicate list).

If I deleted my library, would that also delete my iTunes files? Therefore, the need to have your backup in order?

As to Wer's ideas, I especially liked the idea of highlighting the file I wanted to keep, then pressing the keys he described. That was to ultimately keep one M4A file of each song on any given album or albums, and delete the others. Not only was it not working, but when the Smartlist "Possible Duplicates" was open, that was when the MC 27 player would freeze. Everything I attempted with the Smartlist ended up in a freeze of the program. First freezes on this new laptop. I did Wer's suggestions under the supervision of my daughter, who is very computer savvy. She said it all should have worked. She suggested I should shutdown the player before something worse happens. Or a complete uninstall/reinstall was performed along with the current library as it currently exists. Then reinstall the library in its original form, if possible.

Also note on the screenshot: Beegees to 4 Non Blondes? The '4' in 4 Non Blondes should have it placed before Beegees; then 10 on 10,000 Maniacs? The Smartlist is fragmented and not in any order that makes sense. Wer suggested the fix. I attempted the fix, and another freeze of he MC. 

Here I am contending again that I did not make the duplicates. Something happened to make the various different duplicate patterns. For example: Mr. Bojangles has 8 duplicates and the original song file. A lot of others only have the original M4A file and one AIFF  duplicate. In both cases, these are songs that were backed up once on my external hard drive. Again, since they were all in locked files, I couldn't have manipulated them if I wanted to. When first restored, there was only one Mr. Bojangles copy. How did that change to nine total?These are truthful actions as to how I made my new library (initially on MC 26). Then upon the installation of MC 27, I had two identical libraries. To my observation, the two versions of the MC appeared identical on the player (as to the music files). Same albums and songs were in the same formats.

As my old laptop was completely fried, my tech guy could not move anything from the ruined hard drive to my new laptop. I'm going to explain again, with more information, how the 1700 plus CDs backed up on locked files on my external hard drive were restored onto my new laptop. When I plugged my external hard drive into the USB port, I opened Tuneswift which is the only tool that could unlock the files it had originally produced. All 1700 plus CD's on the backup were in the Apple Lossless format. When I did the new computer restore, it took 16 hours to validate and restore them to my iTunes player. As I said earlier, the some 1700 CD's synced with the MC player and showed as M4A formatted files. The iTunes player imported/synced the files automatically from the restore to the MC player. Some said I must have imported the files multiple times, or something to that effect. All I can say is, please believe me that they were locked files and that I only did the restore once. At this point, I have the some 1700 CDs (M4A format) and the approximately 120 files (AIFF format) on my MC 27 player. No duplicates at all showed up until I did one partial format conversion to the AIFF format. Until the format conversion, everything was in perfect order and was working perfectly. I did the format change to AIFF as my handheld player was a Pono that was designed for higher resolution files, and better sound. Otherwise, without owning the Pono handheld player, I don't think I would have known about JRiver. When PonoWorld was shutting down, it was recommended by Neil Young and crew to deal with JRiver and purchase their player. I hate to be redundant, but I feel like some who have read my account as to what has taken place, many don't believe me. I feel like I'm whining. That is not typical of my behavior.

I'm not putting the blame of the many duplicates on the MC player. Maybe with the locked versions of most files combined with the two iTunes media files, something went wrong with the format conversion? I don't know, and as of now, it really doesn't matter how it happened. I am confident with a complete clean uninstall combined with a reinstall pf my music library of over 1800 Cds, things will hopefully turn out differently this time; including when I do the format change.Once my library is deleted and restored, Perhaps to the FLAC format to save space. As I said, the key is the backup or reinstall of my library. That is where I need help as I have resigned myself to giving up on repairing the player as it stands currently.

Important: My iTunes player and MC 27 are identical, with the exception of two things. The first being iTunes has no duplicates on the player. The second being MC 27 has the 120 Cds on it that were overwritten when I did my system restore from my external hard drive using Tuneswift. iTunes won't merge those two files. therefore, the 120 AIFF files are not on my iTunes player. I can easily find the iTunes 1700 plus Cd file under the C drive - Users -itunes, etc.. For the life of me, I can't find the overwritten file with the 120 CD files. They must be in my system somewhere, as they show up on the MC 27 player. I can't look through the JRiver MC files as they are zipped, and I don't have a tool to open them. Does anybody know what tool I need to open JRiver files? Why I ask is because I am planning to do a fresh restore (uninstall/reinstall of MC 27 and it's load copies of my unduplicated music) on my MC 27 player. As I said, MC 27 may locate them, as they did before. I want to be prepared for any eventuality. If MC 27 doesn't automatically sync with both iTunes files, can I drag and drop both files on to the music library on the MC 27 player?

[w_axlrose1]

I'm sorry to say this but it sounds as though things were in a higgledy-piggledy mess before you even involved JRiver. There seem to be a lot of variables involved especially when you speak of additional third-party tools like CopyTrans. A program I have never used and cannot comment on how or even how well it performs at its job.

A lot of your posts are quite long and I'm having difficulty following your workflow but it seems to me that you are attempting to delve further down rabbit holes in order to solve problems that are likely to lead to more problems.

You may not want to hear this but your best course of action may be to blow away your existing MC Library. Set up a new empty folder somewhere on your disk (well away from the iTunes directory) that you will use as the root of your new library and add this directory (and only this directory) as your Auto Import folder in MC. Then I'm afraid comes the tedious part. Manually move (or copy if you have the space) the music folders/files over to this new directory checking for duplicate files as you go. Yes it may take a while but at least you will then have a good foundation on which to add to your library from that point onward.

[Campaigner8]

I'm sorry to say this, but it sounds as though things were in a higgledy-piggledy mess before you even involved JRiver. There seem to be a lot of variables involved especially when you speak of additional third-party tools like CopyTrans. A program I have never used and cannot comment on how or even how well it performs at its job.

A lot of your posts are quite long, and I'm having difficulty following your workflow, but it seems to me that you are attempting to delve further down rabbit holes in order to solve problems that are likely to lead to more problems.

You may not want to hear this, but your best course of action may be to blow away your existing MC Library. Set up a new empty folder somewhere on your disk (well away from the iTunes directory) that you will use as the root of your new library and add this directory (and only this directory) as your Auto Import folder in MC. Then I'm afraid comes the tedious part. Manually move (or copy if you have the space) the music folders/files over to this new directory checking for duplicate files as you go. Yes it may take a while but at least you will then have a good foundation on which to add to your library from that point onward.

Thanks axlrose! {My problem with duplicates explained as simply as possible).

Actually, I have had iTunes and JRiver Media Center for years.

iTunes is stable and has no duplicates. JRiver was stable and had no duplicates until recently when I did the following:

1. Started using the new version of JRiver's player - (MC 27).

2. Duplicates, triplicates, quadruplicates, up to nine copies of every file turned up only after I did a test file format conversion version on files up to the letter 'C.' (to the AIFF format).

3. The multiple copies of every track showed up only AFTER I did the format conversion. Thank God above I only did a limited format conversion!

The duplicates and formats are in a variety of variations. Some albums converted have no duplicated copies. Others have a mixture of two, three, four, or more copies in one album. Some in the original M4A format. Others in the the AIFF format. Other albums have a confusing mix of different formats. There may be three duplicates in the AIFF format and two in the M4A format. One must be an original M4A file, but not always.  There is no rhyme or reason to the many new versions of album files that were a stable, unduplicated library pre-conversion until the format conversion.

I am resigning to deleting all of the duplicates. Then do another format conversion after I reread the instructions on the MC forum.

Make sense? If the duplicates reappear, I will take your advice. Out of 1804 Cd's, I can't find the 120 CD file overwritten by Copytrans Tuneswift. I know the file exists as all of the CDs are in the MC player.

Or I can take it into a tech to do the work. I can afford it, which is a major positive. I haven't taken it into a tech yet, as I am trying to learn more about the player.