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[garysummers]

Running JRiver 27 new purchase/download on Windows 10 Pro. JRiver 27 outputs 5.1 (6 Channels) even when all DSP Format settings are defeated and stereo source material is played. If I play the same stereo source file through Windows Media Player, it plays correctly.
The audio path screen shows 48kHz 16bit 2ch source format WAV  - No changes being made - 48kHz 32bit 2ch using WASAPI(direct connection)
Even when this screen reads as stated I am getting 5.1 output. Again everything in "DSP Studio" is turned off.
When I play stereo pink noise in the JRiver Calibration tool, it 0utputs 5.1 channels.
My sound card is working properly because when the same stereo file is played through Windows Media Player it plays exactly as it should.
I don't know how the 6 channels are being derived as no up-mix or any types of DSP are installed.
Great App but this makes it unusable! Already paid for it too.
PLEASE HELP!

garysummers

[wer]

Well, Gary, you've halfway answered your own question. If Audio Path says it's outputting 2 channels, it's outputting 2 channels. If all the DSP studio modules are turned off, including output format, then it cannot upmix. So if your description of MC is correct it cannot be doing what you say it's doing.

So either your description is wrong, or your conclusion is wrong.  All we have to go on is your say so that MC is outputting 5.1.  Please provide some proof of that in the form of a screenshot or photo of your receiver diagnostic screen.

You have not provided any meaningful explanation or description of what MC is connected to, or how you are playing back, or how your system is configured.  (PC outputting sound to what device? TOSLINK? HDMI? Receiver? DLNA? How is the other device configured?) If you have your PC hooked up to a receiver, are you aware your receiver could be applying a sound field?  Your sound card driver could be applying a sound field.

We have nothing to go on, except you talk about using WASAPI and testing with Windows Media Player (things only available on Windows) and using Windows10, and yet you're posting in the Mac forum.  What should we make of that?  Are you running emulation of some kind, or did you just make a mistake?

So it would be helpful if you could provide some additional clarity about how you are hooked up, and what exactly you are doing. Because the evidence you have provided so far either contradicts your claim, or indicates some component other than MC is involved.

[garysummers]

The computer is connected to my Mcintosh preamp via analog RCA's patched to the external multichannel inputs. Thus no up-mixing or DSP in the McIntosh system. Also the computer outputs correctly when Windows Media Player is used. This would negate the sound card doing any kind of DSP up-mixing. When JRiver is taken out of the equation everything works fine.

[wer]

Have you tried a power off reboot of the pc?

Thus no up-mixing or DSP in the McIntosh system.

That's not been demonstrated.  Screenshots. Of the MC audio config, of DSP studio, of the windows mixer config, of the OSD or front panel of the preamp showing it is receiving 5.1 but not applying a sound field.

You sound very sure, but FYI, there are multiple software interfaces to the windows audio chain, so your test with WMP, while interesting, is not dispositive for the involvement of your driver. WMP uses DirectSound.

It is entirely possible that MC is outputting in 5.1. But you claim it is configured not to.  That's the contradiction. So if you will provide screenshots, I can take a look and see.

[garysummers]

The McIntosh direct multichannel inputs are direct pass through. No DSP can be applied. If the McIntosh preamp was applying any up-mix DSP, it would be present when using Windows Media Player as the music player.
The ASUS Essence STX II 7.1 sound card is set to 5.1. Its internal audio test shows proper 5.1 output signals.
The ASUS sound card is used to output Windows Media Player and it functions correctly. When I play a stereo file it plays 2 channel, Left and Right. If I play a 5.1 poly file it plays correctly in 5.1.

JRiver Security is not allowing me to attach 3 .jpg files that are photos of the screens you requested. They don't pass the security check. Maybe an administrator can help. They are photos I took on my Iphone. Probably not a huge security threat I would think.

[wer]

People post images here every day; not sure why you're having a problem.

Alternatively google free image hosting or use https://vgy.me/
and link to your photos.

[garysummers]

As I work on getting the 3 .jpg files uploaded.
Can you respond to my last post as I think it eliminates the need to look at certain parts of the audio chain.

[garysummers]

Here what I have found.
By toggling through the different "Audio Device" output settings.

 1) Default Audio Device (Direct Sound)
 2) Essence STX II ASIO(64) [ASIO]
 3) ASUS Essence STX II Audio Device {WASAPI]

I can get it to work properly but it will not hold and will go back to the faulty playback.
The #1 setting does not retain the resolution of the sound files and thus not an option.
I prefer to use #3 as it retains the original bit depth and sample rate of the original files.
When I upload and apply my Penteo 5 Composer 5.1 VST plug-in it is working properly now.
Previously it was not. When I would select it in the side menu it would show 5.1 up-mixing but I would only get left and right.

Just so I am not misunderstood and that this is not my first audio troubleshooting rodeo my CV is attached.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-summers-6341075b/

I do appreciate the responses and the help as well!!

[wer]

Well without screenshots I can't say anything more definitively.

WASAPI is preferred. I don't see how "upload" comes into play with a VST. As for settings "not sticking" I wonder if you're operating in client mode. Is this your only instance of MC? I could wonder if you're configuring one zone but playing in another. I can think of a dozen ways things could go wrong.

I'm not going to look at your profile. It doesn't matter.  The essence of your posts is "It's definitely MC that is doing something that I've definitely verified it's configured not to do."  So clearly there is a contradiction, and the only thing to be done is to ascertain how your software is actually configured and what it's doing.

I can't comment further without seeing for myself.

[garysummers]

This is the only instance of MC I am running.
I don't know what "client mode" is.
I am not using the zone functions ,all turned off.
In fact I have every extra setting in MC turned off.
I have un-installed my VST plug-in.
Pretty much using MC as an audio pass through at this point.
Still is not working correctly.
I will give another try to posting .jpg files.

Looks like one showed up!!

[kr4]

I see a check-box next to  "Detect stereo sources in surround (pseudo-surround)" and the invocation of bass management in the panel below that.

[garysummers]

The "Output Format" box is not check.
That defeats all options in the screen menus, Correct?

[wer]

I see the same thing Kal, but the module is turned off. But is that the playback zone?

Gary I need to see two things:
Expand the Playing Now area of the tree  and screenshot that so I can see what's there.  Also tell me the contents of the dropdown at the top of your first screenshot, where it says "Zone to configure."  Player is one entry. What else is there?

You misunderstand Zone functionality in MC, Gary. It is always on.  It cannot be turned off, so you are using it whether you think you are or not. The question is how.

[kr4]

The "Output Format" box is not check.
That defeats all options in the screen menus, Correct?

I certainly would think so but, given your ongoing issues, why not delete/defeat them just to be sure?  Belt and suspenders.

[garysummers]

Here you go. Thanks for the continued help on my issue!!

[garysummers]

I certainly would think so but, given your ongoing issues, why not delete/defeat them just to be sure?  Belt and suspenders.

With the main "Output format" not checked, it will not allow defeating those settings.

[garysummers]

Some more data from the MC Reporter if useful.

[kr4]

With the main "Output format" not checked, it will not allow defeating those settings.

If you mean "Output Encoding," the answer is yes you can.  I never use any "Output Encoding" and I keep those options defeated.

[garysummers]

OK, turn the function on, defeated those settings and save a new config. 

[wer]

Gary,

1. Try selecting the DirectSound option for audio device in MC, and play a problematic file. It's not desirable, but I want to see what it does.  Show me the audio path when you do that, and report the audible results.

2. Show me the audio path when you play a problematic file using your regular WASAPI option and it's giving you 5.1 on a stereo file.

3. Your sound card has an option to upmix 2-channel stereo to 5.1.  How do we know that's off?

[garysummers]

Posted photos:
Results audio wise:
When I selected "Direct Sound" The audio file was reproduce in stereo correctly. The audio path represents what I heard.
When I selected "WASPI" the audio path shown and the reproduced audio do not agree. I was getting a 6 channel output.
I am unable to determine if it is an true up-mix or just a redistribution of the audio over 6 channels.

[garysummers]

More pics

[garysummers]

its hit or miss if it will let me post a pic.

[garysummers]

Security will not allow the last pic. Tried 10 times.
It was the Audio Path with WASPI.
It showed a 2 channel source and a 2 channel output.
I was hearing 5.1.

[wer]

Then MC isn't doing it.

I think your audio driver is applying upmixing to WASAPI and not DirectSound. Investigate my question #3 above.

I imagine if you got another player that supports WASAPI (foobar and VLC do) and configured it to use WASAPI, you'd get the same upmixing.

Try googling "asus essence stereo upmix". There's a lot out there. It's an option that can be enabled during driver install.

If you enable output format in DSP studio, and set channels to 5.1 with no upmixing or downmixing, it might prevent your card from misbehaving.  Try it.

[garysummers]

If the sound card was up-mixing to 5.1 why does it not happen with Windows Media Player?

[garysummers]

This is the ASUS ESSENCE STX II 7.1 Sound card set up menu.
The Virtual 7.1 up-mix feature is not selected.
All DSP functions have always been deactivated.

[garysummers]

I set it to WASPI and activated the Output Format with 5.1 but no up-mixing.
Stereo file plays audibly in stereo but Audio Path shows 6 channel output.

[wer]

That's a correct result. The reason it works is that the driver will see a six channel stream, even if 4 channels are silent. The feature in your driver upmixes 2 channel audio. When it sees 6 channels, it doesn't try to upmix. You hear stereo because the other 4 channels are silent.

I've mentioned the possible reason why your card might behave that way twice.  You're so sure of your diagnosis, that you're not heeding what I tell you.  I told you before there are multiple different interfaces to the Windows audio chain. Your driver can process them differently.

WMP uses DirectSound, and you hear no upmixing, When MC uses WASAPI, you hear upmixing.

But when MC uses DirectSound, what do you hear, Gary? Read your own post from 10:10pm.

You play the same file from MC using two different interfaces, BUT THE SAME MC DSP PARAMETERS, and you get different upmixing results. That tells me something. Doesn't it tell you anything? Audio Path confirms, MC is outputting 2 channels.

Investigate the configuration of your driver. You're showing me one setup screen out an obvious 3 at least judging from the buttons in the screenshot. I don't have that card, and I'm not going to spend a bunch of time researching it for you. See what happens when you change that audio channels dropdown fromsix channels to 2 channels.

Get another WASAPI audio application to test

[garysummers]

Well I appreciate all your help!
As configured as you suggest with WASPI selected and the Output format turn on with 5.1 format checked but no up-mixing,
everything works sound wise and the files are reproduced at their original sample rate and bit depth.
The Penteo up-mix VST plug-in works as it should and all channels are properly identified.
I am able to A/B the plug-in which is important to my application.
The 5.1 discreet 24/96kHz file all play correctly with full resolution.

Again thank you very much for your help. My initial post may have come off as a rip on MC, which was not my intention.
I have looked at many music player apps and JRiver is my 1st choice as well as letting you use VST plug-ins. A huge plus for my purposes.
I have a lot riding on getting this to work for a product I am developing.

Again thank you!! All the Best!!

Gary Summers

[wer]

I think that feature on your card can be disabled. From googling, it seems to involve editing a config file.  Or you might contact Asus tech support.

Good luck.  Glad you're sorted out for now.