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Author Topic: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old  (Read 83625 times)

Tricil

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2017, 08:35:52 am »

Some more additions:
Run the Jewels 2 (not 3 unfortunately) from their own store: 24/44
Korn - Follow the Leader 24/96 (7digital/HDTracks)
Failure - The Heart is a Monster 24/96 HDTracks
Failure- Fantastic Planet Live 24/96 (PledgeMusic Preorder - Not out yet)

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Tricil

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2017, 09:20:02 am »

There's more vinyl/HD downloads on the site I won't get too into.
Ghosts I-IV - Previously available on Blu-ray.
Hesitation Marks - Previously available to download without vinyl.
Natural Born Killers OST.
Lost Highway OST - Lots of Bowie on it.
The Social Network OST - Previously available on Blu-Ray with 6ch mix.
Gone Girl OST - Previously available to download without vinyl.

Unfortunately, these are all 16/44 with the exception of Gone Girl and Hesitation Marks. 
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Tricil

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2017, 11:17:40 am »

Some more additions:
Run the Jewels 2 (not 3 unfortunately) from their own store: 24/44
Korn - Follow the Leader 24/96 (7digital/HDTracks)
Failure - The Heart is a Monster 24/96 HDTracks
Failure- Fantastic Planet Live 24/96 (PledgeMusic Preorder - Not out yet)

Update: RTJ3 is now out at 24-bit at 7digital.

Also, Bleep.com has a huge selection of 24-bit audio: https://bleep.com/stream/24-bit-wav
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2017, 06:44:09 pm »

Quote
Unfortunately, these are all 16/44 with the exception of Gone Girl and Hesitation Marks.

Thanks for the tip, I emailed support at NIN store in January to confirm bit depth and sample rate but they never got back to me.
I have read elsewhere that Natural Born Killers OST and Lost Highway OST are 16-bit but have been remastered.
They shouldn't be advertising "HI RES DIGITAL". Maybe it is considered hi res compared to itunes but it's just CD quality.

When Pretty Hate Machine was remastered in 2010 it was only available in 16-bit with the reason being that the source material was 16-bit. So it makes sense that it is still only available as 16.

I also read that Ghosts is 16-bit which is strange since you can still buy on blu-ray with at 24-96 on the same site.
I haven't read anywhere about The Social Network OST but I believe my 24-bit copy came from blu-ray too.
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2017, 07:02:24 pm »

Hesitation Marks is available with from HDtracks with the 3 extras songs from the deluxe version.
NIN store only has the regular version. For those outside the US, the deluxe version is only available on CD.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2017, 11:25:56 am »

I find myself more and more not bothering with "hi-res" audio downloads from various sites anymore, due to the majority being sold are based from same masters the CDs use.

There are a few exceptions where "audiophile" masters are used, though. Otherwise, I don't see the point or hear any difference between the 16-bit masters and the 24-bit masters (as they're probably from the same source). IMO, it's a waste of money and the consumers keep getting burned over and over.

I'm finding professionally done needledrops of older/analog master LPs I already own are where it's at in regards to "hi-res" audio these days. ;)
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2017, 01:04:49 pm »

Quote
I find myself more and more not bothering with "hi-res" audio downloads from various sites anymore
Lately my enthusiasm for hi-res has waned.

I like it when artists release new albums that can be purchased in hi-res direct from their site. Radiohead, Muse, NIN, etc.
I liked dvd-audio and blu-ray because there was typically a surround sound mix as well. Their downside is that they were crippled by DRM.

While I like to get new releases, there really aren't very many. In the past there was such few albums released in hi-res that it was an affordable hobby. Lately they are re-releasing everything, but I don't care about re-releases. With the exception of a few artists and a handful of albums I will never buy a re-release. A good example of an album I won't buy is Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger that has a hi-res version in its 200 dollar deluxe version. It seams that everyone is Pink Floyding us these days. HDtracks isn't even an option where I live, and I am not going to use a VPN and paypal to access it.

I don't think streaming, MQA, or Ultra HD Blu-ray are going to help the situation. I think Apple could if they offered DRM free hi-res music. I am saving a lot of money these days because my music purchases have dropped to almost nothing. The music I do buy is typically on CD and direct from the artist website.  I'm fine with it.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2017, 12:39:21 pm »

Hell, I'd be happy if Apple offered DRM-free 16-bit lossless downloads.
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Tricil

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2017, 02:05:20 pm »

7digital offers both 16 and 24bit FLAC Downloads. They let you redownload too without a stupid Manager.
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ferday

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2017, 04:17:33 am »

Hell, I'd be happy if Apple offered DRM-free 16-bit lossless downloads.

+1000

if apple sold ALAC i'd go broke.  i don't care as much about hi-res but even just CD would be awesome
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2017, 05:11:17 am »

if apple sold ALAC i'd go broke.  i don't care as much about hi-res but even just CD would be awesome

Same here, there's all sorts of iTunes-exclusives I'd like to grab in lossless.
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2017, 07:22:21 pm »

Radiohead's OK Computer deluxe reissue is available from their website for 20USD.
http://www.oknotok.co.uk/
Kind of them to not force vinyl box sets onto their fans.

A couple physical 24 bit releases available from Burning Shed:
Anathema - The Optimist cd/dvd/blu-ray (09-06-2017 availability)
Steven Wilson - To The Bone dvd/blu-ray (18-08-2017 availability)

Radical Face's latest EP SunnMoonnEclippse has 2 out of 3 songs in 24 bit.
Available from Bandcamp

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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2017, 09:37:16 am »

Nine Inch Nail's new EP 'Add Violence' is available from NIN website at 24/48.
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2017, 04:30:03 pm »

Beck - Colors is available from Beck website.
It is 24bit and has 8 tracks at 44100 and 2 tracks at 96000.

I don't see it available when browsing the site so here is a link:
https://shop.beck.com/products/colors-digital-download
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Goatshade

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2017, 12:43:10 pm »

I think the over-all point of the thread is to show-case that it is possible to obtain high-fidelity mixes of artists and albums who are relatively new, in spite of not being as "classic" or culturally significant as those who came before.

Speaking as someone who is, herself, only 26, I can relate to a certain degree. I don't think there is anything wrong with artists who had their hey day in, say, the '50's, '60's, and '70's, and indeed, much of what came after them is thanks to them. Nevertheless, they simply don't appeal to me stylistically and atmospherically, and I ardently refuse the notion that newer acts are only really equipped to be inferior interpreters of their influences. It would be a bold statement to claim that, say, Ne Obliviscaris are better than Black Sabbath--indeed, the former would probably be uncomfortable with that assertion themselves, in spite of the flattery. Still, at the very least, they are one of many representing a genre that has stylistically evolved quite a bit with a new generation. This does not entail that their fans fail to recognise the weight of Sabbath's contribution by any means.

Of additional note is that young people today are economically under-equipped to be audiophiles, partially because they haven't "made it" yet, but mostly because the economy is a terrible environment for them and the stereotypical mechanisms of "success" tend to feed right in to it. Being an audiophile is an expensive life style that doesn't lend itself to being juggled with finding good-enough-paying work to make rent, pay bills, and generally sustain one-self. I'm not sure many of them "get" the appeal, to be honest.

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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2017, 02:35:04 pm »

Sadly, not all of the stuff peddled on the "hi-res" stores is actually true hi-res. A lot of stuff, especially stuff from HDtracks, is notorious for using the same masters the CDs are pressed with. This, in my opinion, is a waste of money compared to the cost of a CD.

Good thing there's communities out there which have ongoing discussions on things like this - whether or not a release is good or not.

That's why I rarely buy hi-res files anymore, not unless they're actually hi-res and have been verified by others in the community first.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2017, 02:51:50 pm »

It would be a bold statement to claim that, say, Ne Obliviscaris are better than Black Sabbath--indeed, the former would probably be uncomfortable with that assertion themselves, in spite of the flattery. Still, at the very least, they are one of many representing a genre that has stylistically evolved quite a bit with a new generation. This does not entail that their fans fail to recognise the weight of Sabbath's contribution by any means.

Yikes, would be a very bold statement indeed. But it's always nice to see artists/bands show appreciation towards their influences.

Of additional note is that young people today are economically under-equipped to be audiophiles, partially because they haven't "made it" yet, but mostly because the economy is a terrible environment for them and the stereotypical mechanisms of "success" tend to feed right in to it. Being an audiophile is an expensive life style that doesn't lend itself to being juggled with finding good-enough-paying work to make rent, pay bills, and generally sustain one-self. I'm not sure many of them "get" the appeal, to be honest.

I wouldn't ever want to become an audiophile in the sense where I feel the need to buy expensive audio hardware (however I do appreciate and favor having all my music in lossless file formats, e.g. FLAC). I want to enjoy listening to music, not obsessing over my DACs, speakers, cables, receivers, etc. You can get DACs/speakers/receivers/etc. at whatever price points, fortunately. You don't have to break the bank to enjoy your favorite songs.
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BillT

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2017, 03:11:30 am »

Of additional note is that young people today are economically under-equipped to be audiophiles, partially because they haven't "made it" yet, but mostly because the economy is a terrible environment for them and the stereotypical mechanisms of "success" tend to feed right in to it. Being an audiophile is an expensive life style that doesn't lend itself to being juggled with finding good-enough-paying work to make rent, pay bills, and generally sustain one-self. I'm not sure many of them "get" the appeal, to be honest.

There are at least 2 definitions of audiophile; someone who wants to hear very good reproduced audio quality or someone who buys overpriced audio bling.

If you are in the first category you are in an ideal time to be an audiophile. Very high sound quality is available for very little money. Almost any smart phone (which you probably own already) paired with a decent pair of headphones is capable of sound quality which was not available at any price when I was 26. If you want speakers, likewise there are many active loudspeakers available at reasonable prices of a quality much higher than were available in my youth.

High quality audio has never been cheaper. (Of course you can spend any amount of money on sound equipment, but there is no correlation between amount spent and quality, above quite a low threshold.)
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2017, 07:54:12 am »

High quality audio has never been cheaper.

Totally agree. There's plenty of options and companies out there, like Schiit Audio, which offer great audio hardware for low prices. I've even noticed that time has passed that the onboard audio on the PC's motherboards has improved. Not only do the majority of them support up to 24-bit/192 kHz output, some of them are beginning to bundle great audio chips, e.g. the ESS 9018 (which supports high bit-depths/sample rates AND DSD) on some of Gigabyte's motherboards.
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2018, 08:49:15 pm »

Some recent new releases:

A Perfect Circle - Eat The Elephant
(96kHz 24bit 2ch) - from download card in $125 deluxe box set from APC website
(44.1kHz 24bit 2ch) - from HDtracks

Nine Inch Nails - Bad Witch
(48kHz 24bit 2ch) - download with purchase of vinyl from NIN website

Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross - The Vietnam War: Original Score
(48kHz 24bit 2ch) - download with purchase of vinyl from NIN website

Radical Face - Ode To My Family (single)
(96kHz 24bit 2ch) - from Bandcamp

Radical Face - The Goonies 'R" Good Enough (single)
(96kHz 24bit 2ch) - from Bandcamp

The Shins - The Worms Heart
(44.1kHz 24bit 2ch) - from HDtracks
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Goatshade

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2018, 10:30:23 pm »

High quality audio has never been cheaper. (Of course you can spend any amount of money on sound equipment, but there is no correlation between amount spent and quality, above quite a low threshold.)

Oh, for sure. We can thank places like Bandcamp, 7digital, HDTracks, and Qobuz for that.

In my experience, sound equipment is the kicker and that partly depends on what you want. I don't think you need to spend USD$400 on a pair of Oppo PM-3's to get the most out of your mobile listening experience; however, I still spent about half that on a pair of Plantronics BackBeat Pro 2 SE's because I decided that I was beyond done with the annoyance of dealing with 3.5 audio cables, especially while riding a bicycle, but didn't want to skimp on that bass and general "fullness". Honestly, these headphones are perfect for me in every way possible but I'm not sure that the average layperson is going to understand the reasoning in spending USD$200 on a pair of cans, especially if they don't understand the advantages of lossless audio. Lossless files don't sound particularly good (read: better than lossy) out of a pair of cheap ear buds and those are for what most people will opt because they just want something that works. So the connection is lost. I personally hate ear buds; they hurt and they're quite fatiguing but they seem to be the favoured solution.

That's mobile listening but what about in-home/living room experiences? Once again, lossless files don't sound particularly good or better than lossy files when they're played out of your average computer monitor or television speakers and no amount of spectrogram analysis is going to force a better experience for the listener. To get the most out of your lossless files, you'll at least need a competent A/V receiver, a decent pair of front channels, and a subwoofer. That's not an insignificant amount of coin, even if the receiver isn't in Marantz' Reference series and the channels aren't Klipsch. Most people who bother with that set-up seem to be content with sound-bar-and-sub packages and even then, the sub is optional to them because they'd rather not risk disturbing their fellow tenets or their neighbours. Out of a basic system like that, lossless will once again not sound that incredible relative to lossy.

In short, people don't understand the appeal of lossless because they don't have the equipment for it and buying the equipment for it is not a wise capital venture because they seldom have first-hand experience with the positive results of going to the trouble. Much of the time, they're taking the plunge because they love music and were told by someone else that it's "worth it"—like I was. I have no regrets but I know others will be for more sceptical.

All of that is aside from the ever-prominent need for the "feeling of ownership", usually in conjunction with the sentiment that a database of digital files is not a "real" collection. CD's satisfy most people as-is and those who are leaving them behind are doing so in favour of streaming services like Spotify—lossy but adequate to them.

I think lossless is on the rise but it's a very slow rise.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2018, 06:43:51 am »

Bandcamp, CDBaby, 7digital, Qobuz, etc. are great resources for lossless downloads, that's for sure. As I've said before however, hi-res downloads can be... complicated.

My main concern with hi-res downloads is it really hi-res we're paying for? I wouldn't be surprised if most if not all of the "hi-res" downloads listed above are sourced from the same master as the CD, hence we're just paying extra for nothing. You really have to be careful when purchasing "hi-res" music downloads. If you know how to do a spectral analysis of a music file and look at it and see where the cut-off is, you can tell whether or not a "hi-res" download really is or not.

Thankfully there's communities where discussions about hi-res releases and whether or not there just based on the CD masters or if they're actually hi-res and thus worth the money. More often than not in my own experience, sadly, hi-res music downloads are based on the same master as the CD. This is one of the reasons I got into very high quality vinyl needledrops of older albums. Depending on the album, how old it is, if it was recorded digitally or not, what equipment is being used for the rip, etc. the result can be quite spectacular.

Lossless downloads in general on the other hand is a great thing to see. If only Apple offered lossless downloads from their Store - I'd be on that so fast buying and downloading iTunes exclusive albums and tracks.
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RD James

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2018, 08:30:59 am »

My main concern with hi-res downloads is it really hi-res we're paying for? I wouldn't be surprised if most if not all of the "hi-res" downloads listed above are sourced from the same master as the CD, hence we're just paying extra for nothing. You really have to be careful when purchasing "hi-res" music downloads. If you know how to do a spectral analysis of a music file and look at it and see where the cut-off is, you can tell whether or not a "hi-res" download really is or not.
Yes, the short answer to that question is typically "no" because these supposedly high resolution downloads often don't contain any frequency information above 22 kHz, or if they do it's noise that is not a part of the music.
 
But human hearing is 20Hz to 20kHz, so even a 44.1kHz track covers the entire range of human hearing.
So even if most of these downloads were not lying about containing high frequency content, we couldn't hear it even if they did.
Most people don't even seem to notice spurious tones in the ~16kHz region that are present in many recordings - which is fairly typical as people lose their high frequency hearing with age.
 
There is questionable benefit to going beyond 16-bit for distribution too.
It's important to have a 24-bit playback device, but not 24-bit music tracks. In some setups with a lot of DSP being performed, there can be a small benefit to a 24-bit source.

Thankfully there's communities where discussions about hi-res releases and whether or not there just based on the CD masters or if they're actually hi-res and thus worth the money. More often than not in my own experience, sadly, hi-res music downloads are based on the same master as the CD. This is one of the reasons I got into very high quality vinyl needledrops of older albums. Depending on the album, how old it is, if it was recorded digitally or not, what equipment is being used for the rip, etc. the result can be quite spectacular.
Not that they can't sound good, but you're typically moving backwards if you're going from digital to analog audio sources like Vinyl.
I know that some people love them, but from an objective point of view, they don't compare to even a regular CD.
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Goatshade

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2018, 08:37:02 pm »

To be honest, I'm very content with CD quality, which is why I still approach it as my minimum standard. Bandcamp and Qobuz hit the sweet spot because they always offer lossless but don't exclude CD-quality content. The problem I tend to have with services like HDTracks is that, while I understand their applicability, they tend to have a rather narrow selection, especially when it comes to my musical interests. At best, I can find the Star Wars soundtracks.

This doesn't mean that I want CD's though. I have a fairly large collection as-is and what does it do? It takes space. I put them in to my PC once to rip them and then they just sit there forever until I have to pack them up and move them again and it's annoying.

Vinyl records are even worse; they're friggin' heavy when packed in to one chest! I bought them extensively towards the beginning of the decade because I found them collectible and had planned on investing in the equipment necessary to play and record them. Unfortunately, that, too, can be of significant cost, involving the purchasing of the right table, tone-arms, needles, phono amp, and then having the appropriate software to record them. On top of that, they're all-together more fragile, susceptible to the elements, and more difficult to work with.

I mean, don't get me wrong: They are really cool. Maybe I'll get one framed or something. They can nicely symbolise my love for music if hung on my wall. But I definitely mean to sell most of them as I intend to sell most of my CD's. I want to down-size and go digital. It'll much easier to deal with. Some would say that I'm wasting money by buying digital replacements for my CD collection but I figure it'll even out fairly well as I sell more of them.
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2019, 01:22:46 pm »

UNKLE - The Road: Part II/Lost Highway
(48kHz 24bit 2ch)

Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross - Mid90s OST
(48kHz 24bit 2ch) - available from NIN website

Tool - Fear Inoculum
(96kHz 24bit 2ch) - available from HDtracks as well as other places

Tool's back catalog is also available at 24-96 with exception of singles and Salival, I believe.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2019, 03:38:18 pm »

Yeah, I grabbed the Tool release. Not bad of an album, though I'm not sure it was worth the 13 year wait yet. :P
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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2019, 05:04:04 am »

One could really find some great high res recordings in pcm&dsd:
http://www.2xhd.com/
https://referencerecordings.com/
https://www.nativedsd.com/
...

I have from Diana Krall a few recordings in high res 24bit/...  and in CD quality. In my environment the high res downloads sound all! less technical, smoother.

I would agree pop music from Taylor Swift etc. is not available in high res. If yes, its taken mostly from CD. Some pop music from some Artists sound much better on live concerts available on BD in 24/32 bit 48kHz then on CD. E.g. I love ELO Live at Wembley Stadium or the last Nightwish Concert with Tarja Turunen.

11.09.19 Taylor Swift's new Album "Lover" is available in 24 bit 44.1kHz!
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2019, 02:36:44 pm »

I forgot this one:
Thom Yorke - ANIMA
(44.1kHz 24bit 2ch) - available at anima.technology website

Quote
Yeah, I grabbed the Tool release. Not bad of an album, though I'm not sure it was worth the 13 year wait yet.
I think it was worth the wait for the song "Descending" alone. I was never in a rush for it to come out and when it did I was in a remote location that didn't have the bandwidth to download it, so I got it a few weeks later than everyone else. I'm more exited for the new Deftones album which is supposed to be released this year. They are a band that has aged very well over the last 20 years. I seem to like them more as time goes on.

Quote
Taylor Swift's new Album "Lover" is available in 24 bit 44.1kHz!
It's funny that Taylor Swift and Tool were competing for #1 on the charts, as many of Taylor Swift's fans weren't even born when Tool's last album was released.
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Absinthe

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2019, 12:02:32 am »

In short, people don't understand the appeal of lossless because they don't have the equipment for it and buying the equipment for it is not a wise capital venture because they seldom have first-hand experience with the positive results of going to the trouble. Much of the time, they're taking the plunge because they love music and were told by someone else that it's "worth it"—like I was. I have no regrets but I know others will be for more sceptical.
I would say you have only hit on part of the issue.  People don't understand the appeal of lossless because they have not been educated on how MP3's differ from FLAC audio.  Nor have they been given the opportunity to hear the difference on capable equipment.  I sold mid-end audio in the late 80's working my way through college and it was roughly the same thing.  Everyone wanted the Cerwin Vega's because they had the "Oh my God look how big the woofers are" or the Bose 901's "because the vague soundstage was "Oh so cool!" but few wanted the Paradigm's, the Infinity Kappa's, Klipsch or Acoustic Research even if they were cheaper.

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rec head

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2019, 09:24:39 am »

I'm going along with the thread drift. My hearing has always been awful but I love music. I don't really like headphones for music so my headphone setup is modest to say the least. I can often still hear the difference between lossless and lossy in those headphones. It doesn't take much more than an appreciation for music and maybe someone to show you it can be better than streaming to get into the "audiophile" world.

A little bit back on topic. One thing I have found is that sometimes the "hi-res" downloads are the only lossless downloads I can find. That is the only time I end up with above CD quality tracks. I think if it was easy to definitively buy 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old I would do it sometimes to support it but I'm too lazy to do the research on if it is truly 24-bit.

I do like reading this thread to see if there is anything I would be interested in. Please keep posting releases.
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Absinthe

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2019, 02:37:40 pm »

I'm going along with the thread drift. My hearing has always been awful but I love music.

This reminds me of a rather wealthy Business Development Director I worked for back in the day.  He owned a set of B&W 801's a for fronts, another set of bookshelf B&W's for his surrounds, a Classe CA-5100 amp and then brand new Classe SPP-800 preamp.  I asked him if he enjoyed his music to which he replied "very much"  I was always envious of his equipment as it did sound markedly better than mine at the time (Denon AVR-3800CI).  A few years before I left the company, he told me he had his hearing checked.  He had almost 90% loss above 13Khz.  Like you, his hearing was "awful" but he loved his music :)
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rec head

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2019, 10:06:28 am »

There's a lot of music below 13Khz! Those high frequencies aren't the only place that lossless beats lossy.
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2020, 01:34:21 pm »

A year to the day since my last post. Not a lot of decent new music these days. Is everything new just awful, or am I old now and hate the next generations music? This happens with every generation, but I feel like this time is worse. Much much worse. Anyways, some new old man music:

Deftones - Ohms
(96kHz 24bit 2ch)

at HDtracks and Qobuz. There is a digital version at Deftones site but there is no mention of quality or format.
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mwillems

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2020, 01:47:44 pm »

One thing I've noticed that is relevant to this thread:  a lot of new artists are releasing music on bandcamp, and bandcamp has started slipping 24-bit audio downloads in for FLAC downloads without even really mentioning it.  I suddenly realized that most of the albums I've bought on bandcamp in the last year or two were 24-bit!

A year to the day since my last post. Not a lot of decent new music these days. Is everything new just awful, or am I old now and hate the next generations music? This happens with every generation, but I feel like this time is worse. Much much worse. Anyways, some new old man music:

I feel like there's good music coming out, but you have to dig for it a bit.  I know you weren't asking for recommendations, but based on some stuff you've posted in this thread, you might enjoy last year's Blanck Mass record ("Animated Violence Mild").  It reminds me a bit of old NIN/Ministry, and the FLACs of that album from bandcamp were 96KHz and 24-bit!
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #84 on: September 29, 2020, 02:09:09 pm »

Quote
I know you weren't asking for recommendations
On the contrary, I would welcome any recommendations about decent music. I will check out Blanck Mass.

I really like Bandcamp, especially because it isn't restricted to Americans only. Radical Face is really good and has all his music there. Some hi res, some not. Isis and Isis related bands have some of their music on there too: Windmills By The Ocean, Pelican, Russian Circles. None are hi res that I know of.

I guess Bandcamp streams, but I haven't ever tried it. I will give it a go.

Thanks mwillems.
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mwillems

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2020, 02:48:57 pm »

On the contrary, I would welcome any recommendations about decent music. I will check out Blanck Mass.

I really like Bandcamp, especially because it isn't restricted to Americans only. Radical Face is really good and has all his music there. Some hi res, some not. Isis and Isis related bands have some of their music on there too: Windmills By The Ocean, Pelican, Russian Circles. None are hi res that I know of.

Those are great bands; I really love Russian Circles (I've seen them live twice!).  Were you ever into Grails?  Not new music, but I feel like they had a pretty similar vibe to Russian Circles for me.

Here are a few things that came out this year or last year that I enjoyed (most on bandcamp, but many are standard res).  Not sure how much of this will be your cup of tea, but these are probably my favorite new albums from last year and this year:

Ritual Howls - "Rendered Armor" 2019 (Goth Rock) (24-bit/44KHz from bandcamp)
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard - "Infest the Rat's Nest" 2019 (Thrash Metal) (on bandcamp, but I think its standard res)
Caribou - "Suddenly" 2020 (Electronic) (on bandcamp, but standard res)
Jenny Hval - "The Practice of Love" 2019 (Weird Synth Pop) (on bandcamp, the FLACs I got were 24 bit/44KHz)
Black Midi - "Schlagenheim" 2019 (Math Rock/Jazz Fusion/Experimental) (on bandcamp, but I bought a physical CD, so I'm not sure what res they're selling)
Tamaryn - "Dreaming in the Dark" 2019 (80's-style synth pop) (on bandcamp, but I bought the CD)


And an honorable mentions for new material by an older artist:
The Mountain Goats - "Songs for Pierre Chuvin" 2020 (Singer/Songwriter/Folk)
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2020, 02:51:56 pm »

A year to the day since my last post. Not a lot of decent new music these days. Is everything new just awful, or am I old now and hate the next generations music? This happens with every generation, but I feel like this time is worse. Much much worse. Anyways, some new old man music:

Deftones - Ohms
(96kHz 24bit 2ch)

at HDtracks and Qobuz. There is a digital version at Deftones site but there is no mention of quality or format.

Unfortunately this release is the same master as the CD, so it's basically a ripoff unfortunately. =\
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syndromeofadown

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2020, 03:46:38 pm »

Thanks mwillems. I have never heard Grails that I know of. I will check them out along with your other recommendations.

Quote
Unfortunately this release is the same master as the CD, so it's basically a ripoff unfortunately. =\
That's too bad. Conveniently, geo-restrictions prevented me from purchasing a hi res copy. Regardless I am enjoying the album. Deftones are awesome.

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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2020, 04:25:51 pm »

That's too bad. Conveniently, geo-restrictions prevented me from purchasing a hi res copy. Regardless I am enjoying the album. Deftones are awesome.

Yeah, it's a shame but it's not really surprising as most "hi-res" releases on HDtracks, Qobuz, etc. use the same masters as the CDs.

The original 24/96 release of Koi No Yokan was a different mastering than the CD release with better dynamic range.

And yes, Deftones are indeed awesome.
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antenna

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2020, 10:04:24 pm »

Yeah, it's a shame but it's not really surprising as most "hi-res" releases on HDtracks, Qobuz, etc. use the same masters as the CDs....

Oh good, so I'm not the only person who has noticed that.  :)

To me it seemed that the "hi-res" tracks for downloading were little more than the 44.1/16 versions converted to 96/24.

One thing that I dislike about the "digital remasters" of the analog-recorded music is the tendency to, ummm, re-process (I'm being kind) the music for today's ear.

Volume compression is quite evident, and excessive.

I listen to my vinyl, and then I listen to the digital remaster version and the difference is not just evident, but jarring. 

imo, of course.  :)

 

 
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antenna

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #90 on: December 21, 2020, 10:28:15 am »

...One thing that I dislike about the "digital remasters" of the analog-recorded music is the tendency to, ummm, re-process (I'm being kind) the music for today's ear.

Volume compression is quite evident, and excessive.

I listen to my vinyl, and then I listen to the digital remaster version and the difference is not just evident, but jarring.  ...

As an example, here are two volume vs time images, taken from my audio editor screen.  Both are the song "Brown Sugar" by the Rolling Stones.  The vinyl image is from the original 1971 vinyl album (the copy I have has a working zipper on the front cover).  The CD image is from the compact disc I bought in the 80's.

Both have been normalized so that the highest peak of the song in each file is at -0.24dB.  In the vinyl version, that peak seems to be hit only a couple of times.  In the CD version, that peak seems to be hit nearly constantly.

Additionally, there is a subtle increase of volume in the vinyl version from beginning to end.  The CD versionstarts out loud and stays there.

Attached are the image grabs...
(for each, the left channel is the top waveform, the right channel is the bottom waveform)


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isaccasi1234

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2020, 01:54:07 pm »

Disturbed Album Collection From HDTracks, real nice collection, but a little expensive. ;D
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2020, 03:34:28 pm »

Also likely not worth it over the CD masters.
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antenna

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2021, 12:40:36 am »

I stumbled upon an aspect of this conundrum as I was assembling a playlist.

I discovered that the Moody Blues album "Days Of Future Past" seems to have had an interesting past, circa 1978.

Digging through my vinyl, MFSL-CD and SACD issues, I noted a distinct difference in the master that was used.  Digging into it, there seems to be a 1978 issue[ with the album.

That's why, in the play list I may be uploading, I specified the [pre-1978] album ID number.  Jus' tryin' to keep things traceable.

But wow, the reverb on the later issues is interesting.  :)






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antenna

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2021, 06:04:12 pm »

As an example, here are two volume vs time images, taken from my audio editor screen.  Both are the song "Brown Sugar" by the Rolling Stones.  The vinyl image is from the original 1971 vinyl album (the copy I have has a working zipper on the front cover).  The CD image is from the compact disc I bought in the 80's...

fwiw, these two versions of Brown Sugar are in the Hearing Double playlist I recently uploaded to CloudPlay.

 
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HandLogger

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #95 on: July 17, 2021, 04:44:03 pm »

Another ancient relic here. ;D  I have some of the tunes in your collection in my own [rather large] collection, but I'm afraid to suggest anything to you out of fear that it will be "too geriatric" for you to try.  One of the earlier posts put it fairly well.  At least some of the artists you listed in the OP were inspired, in one way or another, by us old musicians.  As a guitar player -- and a long time music observer -- I can tell you, with no hesitation, that much of the music you like is predicated on the same cord progressions that have been in use for decades.  Just because the subject matter in the lyrics has changed doesn't mean that the music itself has changed very much.  That's my old $0.02     
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JimH

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #96 on: July 17, 2021, 06:55:15 pm »

Another ancient relic here. ;D  I have some of the tunes in your collection in my own [rather large] collection, but I'm afraid to suggest anything to you out of fear that it will be "too geriatric" for you to try.  One of the earlier posts put it fairly well.  At least some of the artists you listed in the OP were inspired, in one way or another, by us old musicians.  As a guitar player -- and a long time music observer -- I can tell you, with no hesitation, that much of the music you like is predicated on the same cord progressions that have been in use for decades.  Just because the subject matter in the lyrics has changed doesn't mean that the music itself has changed very much.  That's my old $0.02     
Well put.
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Scobie

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #97 on: July 19, 2021, 08:02:04 pm »

Have a look at Rick Beato on youtube. He does a great job of dissecting music in his "What makes this song great" series and his analysis of current top 10 music (iTunes, Spotify playlists etc.) is also really informative re the predictive nature of some of today's music and highlights why innovation in song structure and chord progression is so important.

Couple examples, there are lots more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynFNt4tgBJ0&t=1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks4c_A0Ach8&t=1s
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antenna

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Re: 24-bit Audio For People That Aren't Old
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2021, 09:27:29 pm »

Just because the subject matter in the lyrics has changed doesn't mean that the music itself has changed very much.  That's my old $0.02   

And in the category of "I wish I had said that", the award goes to HandLogger.

Really, so much knowledge conveyed in so few words....

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Vinyl: Shure V15VxMR, Shure VN5MR stylus, VPI Scout turntable
Shellac: Shure M91, Shure N75-3 stylus,  Dual 1218 turntable

Apt Holman preamp (updated), Benchmark Media ADC-1, Benchmark Media DAC-1, Carver TFM-45 power amp (updated), Original Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers (LF surrounds replaced), Sennheiser HD590 headphones
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