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[tkolsto]

windows 10 pro. all the latest updates
av: windows defender
amd phenom ii x4 965
8 gb ram
nvidia gt 1030, 2 gb.j( 4k hdr , 60hz).
Tv: Lg oled65B1

Update: During this thread I scrapped my old Desktop And a bought a new one. (Before that I also used my "office" pc which is newer (amd ryzen 7 2700x, 16 gb ram and rtx 3050).

My new Pc:
os: windows 10 pro
av: windows defender
ram: 16 gb
cpu: intel i5 12600
mb: asrock Z690
gpu: Rtx 3050 8 gb


I have problem with playing Large video files 4k hdr. It stutter/pixleating during play apporx 50 gb.

Most of my files are much lower. so I have not encounter this problem until now

I used to use red october hq(fast computer). terrym@tassie recommended I use jrvr. and it was better but still it will not play smoothly. I have only activated passthroug hdr.

Somebody know why this is a problem. My cpu workload is low during play and it is low also when I use red october HQ. 

[tkolsto]

I read on the internett, that large file size is a common cause for lagging. So there might not be a solution other than buy a new card(with hdmi 2.1) when they eventually become available in stores or compress the videofile.

[jmone]

When playing the file using JRVR:
- Bring up the OSD stats (Press Ctrl+J)
- Post a print screen of the stats (or write them out)

This will give a better idea of what is happening.

[JimH]

Are the files local or are they on a network drive or USB drive?

[tkolsto]

It is on local drive and this file which is over 49 gb(Jurassic.World.Fallen.Kingdom.2018.UHD.2160p.Bluray.Remux.HEVC.HDR.DTS-X.7.1-DTOne)

not usb or network(other pc) but sata hardrive locally

[tkolsto]

here are two "screen shots". Most of the times the hz shows 59.9 hz not 50 or even 30 hz sometimes. click on the link on the bottom to get full picture.

[jmone]

OK - your trying to play a 23.976fps at 60fps which is killing your 1030 as it can not render out these frames fast enough to keep under 16.6ms at this refresh rate. 

You need to turn on MC's Display Rate Changer (Tools--> Options--> Video--> Display Settings automatic change mode--> to ON) so that MC will place your display into the same refresh rate as your media (eg 23.976hz).  The 1030 now has 41.7ms to render each frame and should now be fine. 

See how that goes.

[Hendrik]

The peak numbers being that high seems to indicate that you might be running out of graphics memory. The 2gb on the 1030 isn't that great.
There is an improvement coming to JRVR in MC29 that may help a bit, and we might look into tuning memory use, but there is only so much we can do when it's 4K 10-bit content.

OK - your trying to play a 23.976fps at 60fps which is killing your 1030 as it can not render out these frames fast enough to keep under 16.6ms at this refresh rate. 

This is not actually required. JRVR always renders eg. 23.976 frames per second (matching the input) and just skips empty VSYNCs to avoid this problem.

[jmone]

This is not actually required. JRVR always renders eg. 23.976 frames per second (matching the input) and just skips empty VSYNCs to avoid this problem.

So with JRVR do we need to do frame rate to display frequency matching at all, eg are you saying JRVR does not use any pull down pattern with a mismatch?
Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

So with JRVR do we need to do frame rate to display frequency matching at all, eg are you saying JRVR does not use any pull down pattern with a mismatch?
Thanks
Nathan

Nah, just tried watching a 23.976fps BD @ 50hz and see the expected repeated frames every second.  Still better off using Display Rate Changer to match the media's FPS to Display Frequency.

[Hendrik]

For perfectly fluid playback you still want to do that, but there is no performance difference.
I run my TV on 100 (for 25/50 fps) or 120 Hz (for 24/30/60), and it doesn't cost any more then perfectly matched rates would - but it avoids rate changes in many situations, as 120 is just my desktop rate, so all I need to swap for is PAL content.

[jmone]

Gotcha, I thought that the extra presentations would also cost.  Learnt something new today.  The basic idea is still correct in using MC's Display rate changer to match (or have an exact Multiple) of the media's fps to the display rate to avoid dropping or repeating frames.
Thanks
Nathan

[tkolsto]

Re-written/updated the post!:

 I have tried synching hz and fps. Still it was lagging. I have changed jrvr with and without synch hz and fps. and also ROHQ also with and without synch. My experience it is this. large files are the problem. stuttering. When I does a lot of changing in jriver settings it sometimes does not follow(either jriver or windows is the problem) and it become unresponsive. Also when It is working good. It work good on both ROHQ AND JRVR also without synching hz/fps. I have also got these large files behaving not that bad(just small quick stutter here and there(but I dont know if this is stable over time. Very strange. It is not easy to spot what did the trick when I do the same thing and sometimes it work and sometimes it doesnt. Something is making my pc or jriver not adjust to change og the different video settings. Confusing: yes!

But I understand the administrators messages and that is the correct way to go about this stuttering.  I learned a lot by these post they made. What do  I need to pay attention to when monitore performance in OSD(ctrl - J) Under performance at the bottom:  1)overall.., 2)color dept... ,3) overlay ...or are all 3 equal important. Mayby overall is the most important that is able to be below 16.6 ms?

[tkolsto]

both cards should have support for hdmi 2.1 120hz

MSI GeForce RTX 3050 VENTUS 2X
Skjermkort, PCI Express 4.0, 8GB GDDR6, Ampere(not available yet): https://www.komplett.no/product/1205850/datautstyr/pc-komponenter/skjermkort/msi-geforce-rtx-3050-ventus-2x#
nvidia card
or
radeon card
ASRock Radeon RX 6500 XT Phantom Gaming D(available!)
Skjermkort, PCI Express 4.0, 4GB GDDR6
https://www.komplett.no/product/1205724/datautstyr/pc-komponenter/skjermkort/asrock-radeon-rx-6500-xt-phantom-gaming-d#

The msi card is 128 bit and 8 gb and asrock is 64 bit and 4 gb. Should I wait for the msi card or does these things not really matter?

[jmone]

Out of these two I'd get the 3050.  I'd also tend to steer away from AMD cards in general simply as most HTPC users are historically NVidia (or iGPU).... not that they may be poor, but just if there is more support as that is what most of us run.

[tkolsto]

Thank You jmone!

I also think nvidia is the best alternativ. I will wait until it becomes available. Probably worth waiting for.

[tkolsto]

Hmm.. there is also stuttering playing everthing now. small files a little stuttering. larger files more stuttering/lagging and  youtube videos. panning stop panning stop panning stop...So that means that it is something else that does the stuttering/lagging on JRiver and that could also be why JRVR is not better, because it is something else that is creating problems.

I tried uninstalling every video/display driver on the pc and then just let windows reinstall drivers after a reboot. but then instead of stuttering during panning or motion.  it was making a stop, movement..stop..movement ...stop..movement...it's now where it stops, is bluring the object that is i motion...so now it is movement..blur..movement ..blur..

I have not installed nvidia drivers yet...which I am going to do after work. ..but then I am pretty sure it will be back to  stop..motion..stop ..motion..stop..motion..

Anyone knows what can cause this overall stuttering in videoplay and streaming. For ex. can the internettprovider make such problems. during streaming and also local play of videofile

when I try streaming videos at work (youtube)..it is more or less ok(low graphic performance pc). but it is way better.

I am going to try Neflix and Hbo to see if this is a fundamental flaw in the system(this is on my desktop that I  have connected to my Tv)

[JimH]

Don't install Norton, but do configure Windows Defender.  Follow the instructions in the Windows Defender thread here.

My first guess was that something was making the drive access very slow, but if it happens when you're streaming video over the Internet (Youtube), then that's not likely.

If you haven't done so, try setting Red October to Standard, HQ, as well as JRVR.  Just to see what happens.

Try a DVD if you can.

You may need to re-install Windows.

[tkolsto]

I Am streaming youtube in a browser, and not in JRiver. playing from a file it stutters and on youtube it blurs instead lagging where there is quick motion and using rumble it stutters again. Also I think my Desktop(tv) turned it self off now. And also when I came home the pc was turned on as always, but the signal was lost, not desktop picture. I had to restart the pc to get picture again on the TV.

At this point, Yes I will reinstall is the only way.

I played a dvd at my pc blueray integrated diskplayer and there also was stuttering, better but clearly styttering. Then I connected my Panasonice bluerayplayer to my TV and played the same scene and there where no stuttering. One could se a bit on different scenes. I have not used my bluerayplayer for a long time. I think bluerayplayers are not perfect so this was normal behaviour. So then there probably are no problems with the TV. So this is a pc system error, thus reinstallation. Thank You for good error detection.

[tkolsto]

I have reinstalled win 10 pro. It is much better now, but I think there are still some stuttering/lagging. I have to test more after work. I did test the integrated bd player in my pc and it was better. and also tested the same Covenant alien film(downloaded movie)(ROHQ) and it was also better, but not the same as before this stutting started. Maybe all will mostly be corrected when I get the RTX 3050(hdmi 2.1, 120hz). I suspect that.

I have a question. I have not done the windows defender config yet. This is done because defender is interfearing with JRiver. What problems can defender normally cause? could it cause it to stutter ? or is it just a precaution for other and larger problems that can happen?

[JimH]

Yes, antivirus software will slow down disk access.  Configuring it correctly will help.

[tkolsto]

I have of course done the settings now in defender all posts.

I also watched Ozark at netflix also some stuttering ( one scene there was a large stutter i played it again it was not there, but when one continue to watch the movie there are some stutters. so netflix is better than youtube and such.

There is something that creating stutters/lagging. on youtube it si not smooth.
youtube: at 2 min high jump (clearly stutters): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOVwes_kL7I

as goes for playing downloaded covenant alien movie 4k hdr 10bit 20 gb file,  it has been better. but watchable. but something is not like it used to be because it was actually very smooth. I set the qualitysettings to performance and in madvr I altered the picture in advance from 8 to 4 which used to improve and made spaceships move smoothly over the screen. at approx 27 min to until 29 min 48 sec. I watch the spaceships panning ( 3 times during this scene so it is a good test). still it gives small stutters. but what is strange is that it run it again it is smooth(so I now know it can be smoooth at least, but something make it unstable and does not get to be smooth everytime, but at least I can watch this movie(I also one time it the spaceship moved smooth ended in bluescreen(just one time). I sometimes (seldom) get a bluescreen and a restart. so this is strange behaviour.

Interstellar and aquaman small stutters and also in these two movies the voices are ok soundtrackmusic is not that clear and a bit lower sound. (interstellar 35 gb and aquaman 15 gb so size does not matter).

Now I dont know what to think anymore.

I am now uncertain that a rtx 3050 will solve this or maybe it will.

[tkolsto]

I now know my graphic card is ok. I use ssd as C: disk(system). could it be that this is corrupted?

[jmone]

If you don't have the following already set in nvidia control panel, give these settings a try.
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Vertical Sync --> On
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Power Management Mode --> Prefer Maximum Performance

Keep in mind it is only a 2GB old entry level GPU.

[BryanC]

Could be thermal throttling with that passive heatsink, check your temperatures when it starts stuttering. Might be time for a repaste or better case fans/air flow. You could also undervolt it a bit to reduce temps.

[tkolsto]

I think the card entered the market in 2017. So it is not that old. and also the memory is not gddr4 but gddr5. memory clock speed is 6gbps. memory band width 48 gbps. it should have no problems with youtube (yes many of the videos are bad which I watch but the stuttering is worse). I called an intenett shop and the service guy hinted it could be a driver issue and said that maybe an old driver could be the solution. ( I never thought of that, but I have low expectation, but I am going to try it.). This is silent fanless graphic card.

And could be that  inno3b is a bad brand? and that could be it not working so good together with the drivers from nvidia?

[tkolsto]

jimone, these settings that you recommend. I know that in nvidia panel one choose programsetting and find the JRiver exe file and choose it and set the values recommended.

could it be also do this in globel settings so that maybe everything might get better like using the browser Opera which I use to watch my youtube ?

[terrym@tassie]

Some personal experience with graphics cards and 4K which may help you:

Nvidia 1030 2GB Passmark G3D Mark score: 2553
Nvidia 960   4GB Passmark G3D Mark score: 6047
Nvidia 1060 6GB Passmark G3D Mark score: 10093

I was using a 960 GPU successfully with Madvr to upscale to HD (1080P), when I started using a 4K OLED tv I had to upgrade to a 1060 GPU with 6GB memory.

I get no frame drops with 4K HDR pass-through at 60fps using JRVR. The 1060 GPU utilization is approx 85% at maximum clock rate(1850 MHz).

One of the issues with 4K playback is memory usage hence my upgrade to 6GB for use with a 4K display.
The above benchmarks show that a 1060 GPU is about 4 times faster than a 1030 GPU (2553 vs 10093).
The 960 GPU I upgraded from is about 2 times faster than a 1030 GPU.

Bottom line: EDIT: @fitbrit has tested a 1030 and achieved smooth 4k playback
I think you will be very lucky if you are able to get smooth playback of 4K HDR with a 1030 2GB GPU.

You can check the power usage/performance during playback using tools such as MSI Afterburner or Nvidia Inspector to see exactly how the 1030 GPU is performing. In my experience if a GPU is running above 90% utilization it will be dropping frames.

EDIT: As above
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I think that in English parlance: 'You may be trying to get a quart out of a pint pot'

Terry

[jmone]

FWIW, I make those Nvidia setting changes in the Global not per app. 

[fitbrit]

One thing that I believe is not accounted for; the 10-series gpus have much better h265/hevc decoding than previous generations. Hence the pass mark scores are not totally relevant. I’ve managed to get smooth 4K playback on a 1030 and 1060, but a 960 struggles.

[terrym@tassie]

One thing that I believe is not accounted for; the 10-series gpus have much better h265/hevc decoding than previous generations. Hence the pass mark scores are not totally relevant. I’ve managed to get smooth 4K playback on a 1030 and 1060, but a 960 struggles.

That is quite true and Passmark scores don't necessarily equate to video playback performance (I didn't get twice the rendering speed when I upgraded from a 960 to a 1060).
I am heartened to hear that you have achieved smooth playback with a 1030, perhaps you could share your settings with @tkolsto. What was the 4K framerate and GPU utilization as a matter of interest?
Maybe all is not lost for @tkolsto....

Terry

[fitbrit]

I tested the 1030 before JRVR was a thing, using MadVR.
I’ll check the settings I used. I think it was the performance preset in MadVR, with just a few tweaks. I speculate that JRVR will do even better.

[fitbrit]

Another thing to note is that the OP is using a very old cpu. When I had a 2nd gen i5, my 1050ti struggled with 4K content too. Upgrading to a 7700k fixed the issue. I know that cpu usage is not too high, but could it be that it is spiking enough to cause stuttering but not enough to register in the monitoring tool?

[tkolsto]

I just tried JRiver. Red October HQ. I ticked the 3 boxes for better performance.(hardware accelarate video decoding when possible, videoclock smoothe video by adjusting audio and optimize hardware for optimal performance). In quality settings I chose performance(so it is now not default settings). And then I went into madvr advanced setting and under rendering I set in windowed mode to 4 and exclusive mode to 4(I set both to 4 just because to be sure). synching the hz does not prevent the stutter so left it at off. same for all the defender taming. I could not see any difference.

With covenant (3840 X 2160)I have the ok results. but there are some stuttering( glitches count that shows on screen monitor. That is the indicator how well the movie is shown, Yes and if this rises to a certain point than it became worse right!) the scene with spaceship floating over the screen went well. or more accurate it when I loaded the film a second time it was better. this was also the case last time I tested the covenant. the glitches is little and is when people move. but very littel in this movie compare to the Martian.

I also tried The Martian(3840 x 1600) and it had more glitches that I saw in the movie. also very close up like a ladder decended from above and downwards was very glitchy but this is because probably be several things like old cpu poor graphics card i reckon.  and this lower resolution could be that the card is not handling as good as original 3840 x 2160.


the card showed ca 50 celsius which is not at all high and gpu was at 50 to 40 percent. but then the hdr did not want to kick inn while I used this invidia inspector so the gpu usage is probably higher if the hdr would have kicked inn.

what goes for netflix and youtube it is sometimes lower performance because most videos have to be scaled up and that is the grafic card`s and or cpu task I reckon.

my card is only 2 gb and like fritbrit pointed out that also could be to bad old cpu.

So to sum up things is that a new mainboard and cpu and graphic card with 8 gb and hdmi 2.1 and 120 hz will solve this most likely. I bumped my car about a week ago so that is always welcomed surprize!

 
Could this be ok or should I be aiming for even better cpu and graphic card. ( ram and mainboard is not that important in all of this right or should I pay attention at something there also. I list it up below.

I am still uneasy about this stuttering and I pray to heaven that when I upgrade it will all be perfect.

also a small question about the screen monitor. frame drops and presentation glitches is what I need to monitor(most important).

and are there other tweaks I should try out in nvidia panel , madvr , red october hq.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G 4,4GHz with Wraith Stealth Cooler , https://www.netonnet.no/art/datakomponenter/prosessor/amdsocketam4/amd-ryzen-5-5600g-44ghz-with-wraith-stealth-cooler/1019313.13682/

Card: GEFORCE RTX 3050 VENTUS 2X 8G

Maingboad: ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS https://www.netonnet.no/art/datakomponenter/hovedkort/amdsocketam4/asus-tuf-gaming-x570-plus/1011990.13679/

Ram: Kingston Fury Beast DDR4 3200MHz 2x8GB  https://www.netonnet.no/art/datakomponenter/internminne/ddr4/kingston-fury-beast-ddr4-3200mhz-2x8gb-kf432c16bbk216/1020626.11118/

please let me know it there are any weaknesses in my choicees.

Thank You Jim ,Hendrik , jimone, fitbrit, terrym,

[tkolsto]

I tried JRVR one more time. just ticked hdr passthrough and in advanced I ticked allowed delayed hdr peak detection(I have ticked this also last time) and together with synching hz and frames in display setting. I have only tried the two movies covenant and martian. And Yes now it was better better than ROHQ.
the stuttering is almost gone now. That was a pleasant change . At last.

Thank You Guys and jimone for that tip. now it worked. I was reluctaned to use it this time because last time it looked like JRiver did not respond to changes afterwards. But now it was succesful. And I did not do anything different than last time because I dont know what to do with all these options.

This was very relaxing for me. Thank You.

I hope this will work as I try other movies too.

UPDATE: Now it is making stuttering again. and when synching fps and hz, then it the stuttering it more like edge of the moving object hangs a bit(like slower stuttering, probablay due to it is 23 hz). Think I may have to watch some TV and use the TVs apps to see if it is happening there also.

 Something has happened when chose to try out if the graphic card could manage 4k hdr and 120 hz, which resulted(the accident that made the problems) in that even the TV lost its settings and changed form 'movie maker' picture setting to 'eco' and the Tvs format changed to and I got a smaller picture with a black stripe on each side. Then I corrected that, but are experiencing stuttering and at seldom a very short hangups on the moving object. I rerun the scene and it is better. so it seams to be changing a bit from time to time. I wrote this post because I suddenly could watch The martian with Jrvr and synching fps and hz. and then nextime it did not work. I dont think there is much more to do.


(back when the accident happened the graphic card was overclocked using Msi afterburner, I used the automatic overclock in Afterburner which, I did not do it myself, so I thought that was safe. After the incident I tried to reset the card, but it wouldnt using Msi Afterburner, I had to use Xtreme Tuner Plus, which I downloaded when I had the graphic card installed in my new(office) pc, which by the way is also experiencing much of the same problems I believe( it is not quiet stuttiering but motion is not normal not smooth motion. I also bought a new Inno3d nvidia gt 1030(tried on both PCs), which I now have returned because it did not make any difference). I now have the old graphic card on my office pc( a sappire radeon hd 5450). I am now on my office experiencing when I scroll up and down on a website is a bright 'white'tale i behind the text and such. I think I would remember this if I had this promblem before, but now I am not 100 persent sure about this last problem(an operator had the same on her pc when I called to check if my internett was ok. But the focus of course should be on my Tv desktop which I know have stuttering problems after the 'accident'.

[tkolsto]

I now was in contact with my fiberinternettprovider, Altibox for a second time. And this time the saw that the internettstream was error/faulty and this most likely cause  stuttering(sometimes hangs a bit and also in rapid motion one can see artifacts in front of the object moving) on my streaming youtube, netflix and so on. They are going to send a technician to fix this problem.

But I have also stuttering on local 4k hdr files played locally on JRiver too. And from what I can see the stuttering looks very similar. And also when I play 1080p movies locally on my other newer pc, which I have also tried on my TV screen while trying to locate the problem.

So my question is, could this error that they discovered also cause JRiver to misbehave also during play?

UPDATE: now he is saying that they can not see anything wrong. They have put me on 48 hour ping monitoring. They are very back and fourth because last time who was another guy said he discovered an error.  Very strange custumer service(do they not communicate with each other), I have to say. and this guy that says that they cant find anything wrong now(today) is the same guy that I talked to the first time I contacted them about this problem. The custumer service guy that discover that there was an error, why does they not communicate with him?, They should not suddenly behave like there are no error. He was very clear when I talked to him and this service guy also said that they would send somebody over to fix it and now it is as if that not have happened. I still have more or less the same kind of stuttering on my tv pc and my "office" pc(which is new) and my Tv decoder which is also connected to their router in my electro cabinet. or playing JRiver locally( on one film it is the same type of stuttering and the covenant film does quite good but sometimes have small stutting which look like the same type of stuttering bahaviour, but I thing JRiver does a good job at removing the problem with covenant film, but not martian and other movies.

I have also used a network cable directly from their router and into both PCs to no avail.

And one more thing. two days ago on my tv pc I lost info on my hdd(You know when You choose how you want the files to be shown in the folderscreen, I choose, side by side. and when I view my hdd it only displays hdd D E F G and so on but does not show how much is used which also is shown with red color when it is near full and blue color when it is there plenty avaliable space and also how many gigabyte used and unused). Very strange. I have restarted the pc but still no information. ALSO I am not allowed to enter properties when I right click on the hdd too. (FINALLY FIXED FOLDER/HDD ISSUE BY IMPORTING FUNCTIONAL REGISTRY)

I am writing this so You know this is a very strange case.

[tkolsto]

I use JRiver Red October HQ and tick off 3 of the video improvements.

I bought a Msi rtx 3050 Ventus 8 gb. I still have a lot of very small glitching/stuttering on fast moving objects. when In Covenant movie the spaceships pan into the screen it have lot of small stutters and bright parts of the spaceship(sunlight) is shivering when in motion.  and no large stuttering or hang ups(wich i never had).

Also people/faces is out of sync in rapid movement. like it is either unsync or to few frames missing making the face unclear and shivering look(this happens very fast and for just a short under second). I have to choose 4096 x 2160 to get 120 hz(here in JRiver I get a smaller screen chopped off on each side, making the screen smaller). If I choose 3840 x 2160(hardware adapted..) I only get 60 hz and the screen get smaller chopped off on each side(in windows screen). I like to use movie maker picture mode. Lgs true motion is off and grayed out. not able to use. I also have used game picture mode to be sure g sync and something called amd freesyng is activated and also vrr working (it said on nvidia experience that my cpu was too weak but in game setting it was set to on and not grayed out.. but also here a feature like true motion pro is grayed out.

And one more thing.. the pc and nvidia panel is choosing not perfect sync because it chooses 119 hz instead of 120 hz as it should. Could this be the cause?

In Nvidia panel vsync is set to on and power usage is set to optimal.

I am beginning to suspect that the fiber are maybe causing trouble or maybe the tv is not functioning as it should.

[tkolsto]

It seems that my Msi rtx 3050 ventus 8gb 2x(with hdmi 2.1) determines that I have to choose 4096x2160 when I turn on 120hz to get full screen, if I choose recommended 3840x2160 my screen get clipped off on both sides, making the screen smaller. I have to lower the hz to 60 to be allowed to use recommended resolution in nvidia panel.

when I choose 4096x 2160 120hz JRiver formats the movie-screen smaller while playing a movie.  Is there a way of fixing this in JRiver and get 4096x2160 full screen? or else I can not use 120hz.

I hope I made this post understandable.

[tkolsto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOv9Y5S1kiY&t=176s


The videolink above. from 2.45 to 2.53 after the iceskater has made her spin there is a glitch/stutter. Can anybody check this. is it the video or just my pc that is making the stutter. It would be very nice if someone can confirm that this is the yt video and not my pc.


also this yt video below from 2.45 paning along the ship stuttering all the way..is it my pc or is the stuttering there embedded in the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBoP-aKNhCg

[tij]

Looking at your latest screenshot ... running at 60hz ... that gives vsync of 16ms ... your rendering times are around 12-14ms ... not much headroom

For my 4k 60 fps content ... i set up such that rendering time are around 7-8ms

Which brings me to next question ... why would you run 23.976fps content at 60fps or 120fps

running 23.976fps content at 23.976fps gives you lots of time for processing between frames

As for resolution ... 4096x2160 sounds like projector ... and of course running 3840x2160 will give you black bars on side (kinda like running 4:3 content on 16:9 screen) ...

personally, i would fit 3840x2160 on screen ... and mask those bars out

alternatively can use projector/TV zoom to zoom in so those black bars are outside the screen ... but then you will lose some pixels at top and bottom

[tkolsto]

I just got a new nvidia driver-update. Now I dont have any problems reguarding resolutions. I Am now able to have the recommended 3840x2160 on 120hz.

screen shots attachent. one for ROHQ 120HZ, JRVR 120HZ, JRVR 23.9..HZ. (Note: the jrvr attachments one have to click on the link below the picture download it to view the full pictures)

Video projection looks similar in all three settings. it have small glitches when the ship moves along the screen. but the image of the ship, several parts of the ship light parts and also around the edges there is some shivering/vibration also like a double edges at the front of the spaceship . overall it is not a smooth and controlled rendering video. Could this be due to not good enough quality on the hdmi 2.1 cable?

[tkolsto]

Ok I found the same film sequence from Alian Covenant on Youtube. I of course use local file 4k hdr on JRiver. But I see the same problems on this YT sequence. So I post it here for anyone to see and maybe also confirm the observation I do when I stream this sequence.

I see the same problem here. This is Youtube and not hdr. but I have the same problems. I wanted a controlled calm normal rendering which I am not able to get. So I wonder how come I see the same problems here and does anyone else experience this also. What could the problem be?

It is the same problem on yt streaming and on playing local film file. And the same on my 1080p monitor and on my 4k tv. the yt clip is 1080p. You can see in this clip the ship pan into the screen at 7 min and 30 sec and also at higher speed at 8 min and 20 sec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPXBR2mhOjo&t=422s

Problem description here:
when the ship slides into the screen from the right. there is some stuttering or shivering on the image of the ship it starts at at the front of the ship that is entering into the screen(because the motion here is faster) and as more of the ship entering the screen and comes further left into the screen the shivering calms down, because of slower movement. and when the rear of the ships also comes into the screen you see the same shivering effect at the rear engines and as it calms down after it gets further into the screen because of slower motion. Also the bright sunlit parts on the right side of ship are not calm at all (shivering effect), but this also calms down after the ship moves more into the screen and calms down.

I am trying to explain what the problem is and if others see the same thing. and what could the problem be?, since it is both on stream and on JRiver using local file. I know there is a solution to this, becaus when I first started this problem solving using my other nvidia graphic card inno3d gt 1030 2 gb(with gddr 5 memory not 4 gddr). I could then use true motion on lg tv and at 60hz it was not perfect but I was able to turn on 120 hz om ms screen setting forcing the card that way. and then all of this was a controlled image from what I can remember and i thought I made it!! and then it became too much apparently and probably overheated the card and then the  "accident" happened which resulted in that also my Lg tv lost its format even and the tv jumped from filmmaker mode to eco mode(which is out of the box picturesetting). nvidia panel vsynch was on and this was on JRiver ROHQ 120HZ. I use this card on my other desktop and pc 1080p monitor now. The card seem to have survived the overheating. when I use my new card msi rtx 3050 8 gb I am not abel to use true motion. I might be bying a gtx 1060 or 1660 6gb and turn on 120hz and use truemotion and see if this is the solution?

Hope anybody could watch the yt link and see if they are experiencing the same rendering effect.

[JimH]

I watched it.  The quality is only OK but I don't see anything I would describe as shivering or distorted.

No JRiver video is involved, as you probably know.

[tkolsto]

Ok so the there is no small stuttering/shivering. also when You see the rear engines of the ship pan into the screen, You dont see the rear engines doddering effect which by the way is visible bright lighted(by the sun)parts of the ship as it pan through the screen?. You have a calm controlled rendering of the spaceship image all the time.  Ok now I am wondering what all this can be.
I posted this because I see the same thing on my tv and pc monitor using yt link and on JRiver using the local movie file(both 4k and 1080p file)

Ok Thank You, for letting me know, much appreciated!

[tkolsto]

Ok so I now think I know what this "stuttering" is. It is a kind of VIBRATION in the picture and it is bad. the rendering is probably ok in ROHQ as well as in JRVR with or without 23.976 hz sync. When I connect a rtx nvidia card which has a 2.1 120hz hdmi port. My tv shut down the feature "true motion". It does not matter if the TVs hdmi is in PC mode or just regular mode true motion is grayed out and not available. This bad picture was always like this with the rtx card.

But when I get to use true motion(Inno3d gt 1030 card or with the RTX card when I use hdmi in standard mode and use JRVR and 23.976 hz sync the full menu for truemotion is available)..the result is never good creating a blur effect inn other senarios. I tried the Inno3d Geforce GT 1030 2gb card in the new PC. This card has a hdmi 2.0b and then truemotion is available. But I just get a bad result either way. When I have true motion on max which is the choice "smooth" I get clear picture like when the spaceship scene or the the beginning of the covenant movie where this human robot moves. But when I get picture with high contrast ..like in the film there is a fire inside the ship and it is dark and there is a fire burning in the background and when  this human (Michael Fassbender) with a hood over his head enters the room one see a "glorie" in front of the hood. a blurred out space just in front of the hood. and later in the chaotic scene several actors often close up moving (here it is looks really bad). So if I dont use the max effect which does away with the vibration (looks like stutter and it some stutter also too due to the vibration effect) or I have to use dejudder set to max, which is 10 (1-10).

Now the funny thing is that I saw this movie with the msi card gt 1030 which just had gddr4 memory..but this movie I could watch...and it had nothing of these problems back then( as far as I can remember, but I think I would have noticed but I could be wrong here). And I used truemotion back then without these problems. I think I would definitely have noticed it back then.

Also when I use the decoder (liniear tv) ... I have this stutter or blur effect either way..and I didn't notice it being bad back then. So something has happened. It is either some change in the fibernett or the TV motion handling has caved in and does not function properly anymore or it could be that some cards just work better with LG's truemotion but I think that is not so but who knows?

So this is a neverending story.  I regret getting rid of my old plasma now.

[tkolsto]

Learned a lot and got to know much more than i have in a long time when it comes to TVs.

Much has changed since the Plasma era (still miss them a lot, the superb and pleasant way plasma presented movies is of great loss) . Well enough of the melancholy. After watching youtube movies and reading ... it looks like I have to ditch my TV in the future. I am broke now so I will have to wait.

I found out that the king of motion handling among oleds is Sony. In this review of the A9 it is stated that Sony are able via their motion handling feature to create a clear sharp motion judder free and also adding fewer artifacts (glorie effect around objects) and also no soapopera-effect. But this is just a 48 inch tv. But this is also better on the A90J which also is avaliable in 65 inch.

At least there is something that is doing this better than LG.

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-xr-65a90j

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-kd-48a9-48-inch-oled-tv

here is another test that find that motion handeling is not perfect with the sony. But at least there is fokus on these things and from what I can understand can be dealt with. So things will be better and better when it comes to different difficulties when it comes to motion problems in different scenarios.

https://www.techhive.com/article/579248/sony-bravia-xr-master-series-a90j-review.html

I also read on forum that some say that Sony is better but not that of a big difference. And also this "glorie"/blurred out space around moving objects is probably the same when motion handeling is used.

Update: Today there is lot to be done to stutter and judder on oleds. So the future for solving this is "motion mapping" where every scene has preplanned solution when it comes to motion, which is under way(probably years). Yes sony is the best choice, but it is not perfect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao3c7EZ19Qc

[tkolsto]

Oled performance is horrible on old content on youtube. major stutter/glitches every second when paning is involved. Tried to use theater view to watch it in JRiver but got same result. I have truemotion on with dejudder at 6. and hz set to 59hz on the tv. Looks to me that Oled are very underdeveloped technology. never any good solutions only bad ones.
Oled are suitable for gaming not watch movies or old documentaries like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERMpsVN98G4 look at 9 min 38 min and just look how awful paning is over the map shown in the documantary. Makes one get sea-sick of watching such awful handeling of youtube.  same but not that bad on many netflix movies series. Oled are actually not suitable for all round video watching and should never have been released on the market. I is that bad.

also look at 12.05 and watch a few seconds...unbelievable how crap this rendering is.  Maybe this youtubevideo is just very bad. but netflix movies and series are bad(even truemotion is not solving it).

[JimH]

I don't think your problem is the display.  Your video sync is wrong.  I don't know why, but try a Google search to learn.

[tkolsto]

There are no solution for oled. There is not a general setting for all around usage. and even if one set the hz to 23.976 hz in windows before watching lets say Erin Brochowich in HD at neflix(which is presented in 50 hz). and set true motion at dejudder at 6. The result is not good. hang ups and bad rendering and judder/stutter. and also movies in very dark scenes are horrible artifacts/flicker in the picture. So oled is not that good(or modern fast pixelresponse LED-TV) for people that use it for videos/movies( 24p content), bc of sample and hold technology, where pictureframes is presented for a certain time("hold") to make up for empty "space" until next frame is presented, it has to do this bc oled pixel is so fast in presenting a frame that i holds it for a bit,bc there is only 24 frames per second, it has to do that make a video watchable, but this creates horribel judder and stutter in motion and camera panning.

I watched Covenant and this movie the use of camera is very good but there are scenes that is fast and one see problems immediately. I am not so sure if this is going to be solved on this technology at all. tv test gives this at most two three lines. Because this is the achillies heal of the oled TV.

I have not found any info on the new oled's (2022) for sony and lg, that states that they are better than its previous models, when it comes to judder and stutter and artifacts and soap opera effect on these tv's (Sony A95K and LG C2 or G2).

I am just very disapointed for this new technology and that this would be a problem in 2022/2021 tvs. And from what I have seen on other tvs(Led), they suffer from the same stutter. I don't know what happened but this was not that bad before. 

Same goes for my oled TV. It was better when I bought it in november 2021. So something has happened. It could be windows related or internet provider related or both. I know my tvs have performed better, but it always ends up like it is now. The times when my Tv has performed better, I did nothing to make it so. I just saw that it was better and that I could lower the dejudder. So this is my experience, albeit confusing. I recon others don't experience the same as I am, I get that.

[JimH]

Are you always using streaming (Netflix, etc.) when you see the problems?