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Author Topic: HDR on PC  (Read 385 times)

davewave

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HDR on PC
« on: November 08, 2022, 12:38:44 pm »

I am wondering if people here have some insight into HDR on a HTPC.   My HTPC (Dell XPS 8950; GeForce 1660 Super)  notes that it can support HDR in Windows 11.  But when I use HDR the main computer menus become very light in color.   And video playback is super saturated and not watchable with HDR on.  The TV is a 2019 Sony XBR and the receiver is a Marantz 6015.

I tried setting JRiver to autodetect HDR as a workaround but that just threw the PC back into the mode mentioned above.

Is HDR just not a "thing" with my system or are there some setting or approaches that I should know about?  I don't get any problems using non-HDR settings.

Thanks.
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eve

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2022, 01:06:33 pm »

Ah! Okay so Windows + HDR is a minefield. Windows 11 has a major overhaul of how HDR is handled but it's still not 'ideal'. My recommendation is to leave everything related to HDR in Windows off. SDR is better for desktop use. So if we want to watch an HDR movie what do we do? Well JRiver supports MadVR, with MadVR, the player itself can trigger the switch to HDR using the Nvidia API instead of the Windows one. This ends up being significantly more reliable IMO. The only caveat is launching an HDR movie in JRiver with MadVR is going to mess up the colors for any SDR material you watch after in the program, just exit JRiver and re-open before viewing SDR content.

One important note, if you're watching an HDR movie, and try to do desktop things, the colors will be weird. So if you're a multitasker, HDR > SDR tonemapping might be more suited for you.
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davewave

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2022, 04:19:29 pm »

Looks like I need to look into MadVR.   

HDR in Windows 11 seems to be something of a problem child.
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JimH

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2022, 04:26:02 pm »

There are some threads about HDR on this board:. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/board,25.0.html
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eve

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2022, 04:47:24 pm »

Looks like I need to look into MadVR.   

HDR in Windows 11 seems to be something of a problem child.

HDR in any desktop OS isn't 'there' yet. Wayland might get it right.
The issue is, applications for the most part are created for SDR displays, so when we try to 'remap' that, things start to get wonky. Even if we say, took a screenshot and then used color grading specific applications like Resolve which has quite good conversion methods, the results aren't perfect out of the box. So trying to do that for a desktop OS that needs to be consistent and accurate? That's a whole can of worms.


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davewave

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2022, 04:41:21 pm »

Interesting side note.   My older HTPC is Windows 10 based, and it is set for HDR with no issues whatsoever to my knowledge.  So this seems to be a Windows 11 issue are noted above.  I tried the sliders built into Windows 11 to adjust between HDR and SDR and that simply did not work.

I wonder if Microsoft is aware of this?
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jmone

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2022, 03:40:02 am »

FWIW - I have no real complaints with HDR on Win11 and I leave it on all the time.  Sliders work.  SDR --> HDR remapping seems pretty good.  The only issue I've seen is taking PrtScr of some websites etc ends up looking weird and if so I then switch back to SDR.  To me it is a big step up from Win10's HDR implementation. 

I grade HDR material on dual 43" HDR400 screens (one screen is driven by the UltraStudio Pro and bypasses Windows completly) and when I playback the final HDR project via Win11 (MC) it looks pretty faithful to me.
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davewave

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2022, 03:38:22 pm »

There was a helpful link to other posts about HDR.

Along the way, there was a long (and very patient) thread relating to some gitches for another user.  Jmone, was particularly helpful as was Jim.

It was suggested in the course of that particular dialog to set frame rates to 23.9 if I recall.   Where exactly is that setting located in JRiver 29, using the JRVR video renderer?  I could not find it, and I was wondering if that is not available to modify in the scenario of version 29 and the JRVR renderer.

Also, are there any other tweaks that I should be using?   I noticed some recommended settings for motion blur, etc. so I was wondering if there is some kind of list of comprehensive tweaking suggestions?   
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jmone

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2022, 02:13:17 am »

Re-reading your original post, I'd suggest the first thing is to get the Desktop looking correct:
- Turn on HDR in Windows 11
- Check if your TV is in HDR mode / getting HDR

Your Win11 desktop should look "normal" when HDR is turned on.  If it does not, then that is the first thing to trouble shoot.
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davewave

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2022, 01:30:55 pm »

Unfortunately my desktop does not look normal at all when HDR is enabled. 

Colors for the regular desktop are washed out.   Colors for movies are completely oversaturated.

I tried the slider for SDR/HDR and it does not really help out.  I really don't know where to go next.  The PC is a 2022 vintage Dell XPS 8950 with a i7 processor and a NVidial 1660 super (all factory supplied by Dell).
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jmone

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2022, 02:02:49 pm »

I don't think the issue is with your PC.  It sounds like your TV is in SDR not HDR Mode.  You should be able to go into the menu on both the Sony and Marantz to check what signal is being processed.  You may simply need to turn on HDR on the Sony, or turn on 'Enhanced HDMI" for the HDMI port you are using if it is not already.
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davewave

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2022, 02:52:52 pm »

The receiver is in the enhanced mode and HDR is already turned on in the Sony.   HDR and Dolby Vision work fine with my Amazon Fire Cube and Apple TV 4K. 

The problem is (at 90% plus confidence) the PC.   If the problem was in the TV then SDR colors (regular menus) should not be washed out.

I have read threads about NVidia tweaks and Windows tweaks but it seems like a rabbit hole.  The most common suggestion I am seeing online is to find a color profile for my TV, which is a Sony XBR-65A8F.  A second idea was to turn on HDR in Windows then fiddle with the NVidia color palette.   Any thoughts?
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tzr916

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2022, 06:18:08 pm »

I have no clue on Windows 11, but I went through this with Windows 10 nvidia 1660ti + Sony tv and finally solved it... Some suggestions:
-verify "HDR Mode" is set to Auto in the tv advanced picture settings menu, for this input.
-make sure your using HDMI not display port w/hdmi adapter.
-make sure all HDMI cables are "premium certified".
-use the windows display settings HDR slider for testing, but turn it back OFF and let madVR or JRVR handle flipping to HDR when it detects HDR video content.
-verify you are set to 8 bit RGB in the nvidia control panel, and that's what shows on the windows display settings page.
-try DDU safe mode, disconnected from internet, to install an official nvidia driver (latest is not always the best).

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,133715.0.html

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jmone

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2022, 08:52:11 pm »

Does your TV or AVR have an Info Screen in the menu that shows what format is being received?  Washed out colours sounds like HDR is being sent but is being displayed as SDR for the desktop, (edit, or the other way around).  Here are my Win11 and nVidia Settings for HDR:
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davewave

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2022, 10:06:43 pm »

Jmone,

Thanks for helping me solve the issue.   HDR was not set to auto in my unit.  Changed that setting, problem solved.
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jmone

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2022, 11:39:48 pm »

Glad you got it sorted!
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davewave

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Re: HDR on PC
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2022, 05:27:12 pm »

I have no clue on Windows 11, but I went through this with Windows 10 nvidia 1660ti + Sony tv and finally solved it... Some suggestions:
-verify "HDR Mode" is set to Auto in the tv advanced picture settings menu, for this input.
-make sure your using HDMI not display port w/hdmi adapter.
-make sure all HDMI cables are "premium certified".
-use the windows display settings HDR slider for testing, but turn it back OFF and let madVR or JRVR handle flipping to HDR when it detects HDR video content.
-verify you are set to 8 bit RGB in the nvidia control panel, and that's what shows on the windows display settings page.
-try DDU safe mode, disconnected from internet, to install an official nvidia driver (latest is not always the best).

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,133715.0.html

TZR:  Looking back at your post I realize there was a lot of hugely important stuff related to my issue.  Thank you again.
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