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[JimH]

We've had some nice help from former Windows Media Center users.  Here's a summary.

WMC records in WTV format, which recent versions of MC failed to play.

MC 30.0.87 and above fix that problem so WTV files play.  Discussion here

We hope to offer WTV recording in a future version.  [Edit: WTV recording is working in MC31]

You may or may not need to disable WMC.  It's a setting under MC.  Tools > Options > Theater View > Disable Windows Media Center.  It's mostly to keep WMC from grabbing the Green Button on the remote.

If anyone else has similar tips, please post them here.

[JimH]

Comskip can be used to skip commercials.  Here's an older thread:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=108326.0

Right and left arrow can skip forward and back.  Time intervals are 30 seconds forward, and 10 seconds back, but can be changed in MC's Options under Audio settings.

[greynolds]

We've had some nice help from former Windows Media Center users.  Here's a summary.

We hope to offer WTV recording in a future version.

What advantages would that have compared to the existing JTV and TS format options?  The only one that comes to mind is that those recordings could potentially be watched in Windows Media Center, but I don’t really see a benefit there.  Even though I still use Windows Media Center for some things, I’d honestly rather see you guys put your efforts into something else unless there’s a real benefit.

[JimH]

Little benefit except it's what WMC users are used to.

[greynolds]

Little benefit except it's what WMC users are used to.

I found and read through the other thread.  As someone who still hasn’t completely transitioned away from WMC, my feeling is the support that was added for importing and playing WTV files has been sufficient.  After that other poster spends a bit of time familiarizing himself with JRiver, I suspect the “need” for recording to WTV files may go away.

[JimH]

Nice to hear. Thanks.

[sheppy99]

After that other poster spends a bit of time familiarizing himself with JRiver, I suspect the “need” for recording to WTV files may go away.

I’m my case I just need to be able to access the alternative audio tracks so I can enjoy my existing material and also get the channel a program has been recorded from into Comskip and I won’t need WTV recording anymore. I’m guessing the easiest way of finding the recording channel is to put each channels recordings into a different folder as they are recorded? For me that would be easiest. With WTV DVRMSToolbox could get this information from the tags, and I’m hopeful it may work with TS too when I have time to try it later this week

[tzr916]

I’m guessing the easiest way of finding the recording channel is to put each channels recordings into a different folder as they are recorded? For me that would be easiest. With WTV DVRMSToolbox could get this information from the tags, and I’m hopeful it may work with TS too when I have time to try it later this week

Putting them in different folders is not needed. MC uses guide info and online databases to tag every recording with the channel, the season, the year, etc. And you can add specific comskip.ini for each and every recording rule, it's on the last page of the the record rule setup.

[tzr916]

What advantages would that have compared to the existing JTV and TS format options?  The only one that comes to mind is that those recordings could potentially be watched in Windows Media Center, but I don’t really see a benefit there.  Even though I still use Windows Media Center for some things, I’d honestly rather see you guys put your efforts into something else unless there’s a real benefit.

+1

[greynolds]

Putting them in different folders is not needed. MC uses guide info and online databases to tag every recording with the channel, the season, the year, etc. And you can add specific comskip.ini for each and every recording rule, it's on the last page of the the record rule setup.

The other person was talking about for existing imported WTV files, not new recordings that are made by JRiver.  I'm not sure if the recording channel info is contained in the WTV file tags or not, but if so, JRiver may just need to add the capability to pull that info from the tags.

[sheppy99]

Putting them in different folders is not needed. MC uses guide info and online databases to tag every recording with the channel, the season, the year, etc. And you can add specific comskip.ini for each and every recording rule, it's on the last page of the the record rule setup.

Can you give me a more detailed description of where to find this, just looked into options and also normal view and can’t find it.

[tzr916]

Can you give me a more detailed description of where to find this, just looked into options and also normal view and can’t find it.

On the last page of each recording rule....
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=114568.0

[mcq]

Trying to get my photos organised as I want them in JR.
Can someone help with a solution please?

I need to emulate the picture attached from the 10ft view.
I have some 4000 pictures on various UNC shares where the folder name is the subject matter - I do not intend to change that, as it's logical and in place.

So an easy solution if possible please - thanks.

[JimH]

MC can fill any tag from a folder name.   

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tag_on_Import

[mcq]

I can't seem to get JR to understand the concept of folder hierarchy.

Starting from the top level of any UNC, I need JR's 'Theatre Pictures' to display all the folders (with thumbs and folder names) at that level and then allow me to click on any folder to drill down layer at a time till I reach the relevant pictures - see pic above.
Anyone coming from a Windows environment - which all WMC users are - will need to accommodate windows folders and windows libraries as described above - can someone just tell me how please.
I don't find the wiki very helpful I'm afraid.

[tzr916]

Trying to get my photos organised as I want them in JR...

In short, what I have done is use the "Album" tag to get my photos grouped. Then my photos show up in theater view > Images > Album, grouped the way I want them.

[mcq]

Thanks tzr916
Are you saying that "Album" tag - or any other - doesn't naturally understand windows folders and simply honour them?

I don't understand why on earth not, as that's what every windows user uses to organise their files.

[JimH]

mcq,
The short answer is that files and folders are the past.  Storing metadata inside the files is the method of the future.

With file tags, you can move files around freely and still preserve the metadata.  You can forget about where the files are.

You can still accomplish an organization that is what you want.  But it will help to read.

[mcq]

Ok Jim, so the answer is no.

I understand your evangelical message, but as much of the world is on MS Windows and organised by folder level - including in Exchange, it might be helpful if JR took cognisance of folder hierarchy for those who wish to view life that way.

This issue, or a version of it, has appeared in numerous posts over the last 10 years from various people, so it's not just me.

Trying to welcome WMC users over to JR by telling them to forget their folder hierarchy and tag all their files, is not terribly user friendly,

Why not accommodate folder hierarchy? 

[greynolds]

JRiver doesn't automatically do anything with the folder structure your files are stored in other than import files from folders you have configured to auto import.  It does set a FileName (Path) tag to the full path, but that doesn't really do much for you.

However, as part of the auto import feature, you can have it apply tags to each item that is imported, so something like this:

If(Regex([Filename (path)],/#\\\\SERVERNAME\\Images\\Trips\\(.*)\\#/,0,0),Regex([Filename (path)],/#\\\\SERVERNAME\\Images\\Trips\\(.*)\\#/,1,0),[Studio])

Will take the remaining portion of the file's full path and set the Studio tag to it.  This approach may help you get to what you want, but it somewhat depends on how many levels you're looking to work with.  You'll also need to think about how you want to customize your Theater View views to work with this.

To be successful using JRiver, you'll need to get away from the Windows file structure approach and instead think about how to tag your media so you can display it as desired in JRiver.

Jim's Wiki reference is a useful starting point, but doesn't have an example that fits your case.  If you use my example from above, it may get you closer to where you want to be.  Make sure you adjust "SERVERNAME\\Images\\Trips" in my example to fit your needs.  If you haven't worked with regular expressions before, you're in for a bit of a learning curve there as well.

Getting JRiver to do what you want can be pretty challenging because it is so configurable.

Don't treat getting JRiver set up as a sprint, but more like long distance running - pace yourself.

Note that it may take a few passes to get to where you want to be.  You may need to "start over" in JRiver a few times because those auto import rules only get applied at the time the file is first imported into JRiver.  But don't be afraid to experiment a bit.  You can always nuke your JRiver library and start over if you need to re-import everything.  It could also make sense to start with a small, representative, set of files and get your rules configured properly, then bring the rest of the files in.

[mcq]

Hi greynolds
Thank you very much for that detailed explanation - it explains much of what I have been experiencing.
I note the syntax but somewhat dread the thought of having to indulge in all that stuff - should I really have to is the question?

I see JR as an excellent 'kit of parts' if I wanted to build a kit car - so to speak - except it is missing the fundamental of folder hierarchy for users like myself.
I don't think WMC users are looking for a trip back to the class room - should they have to?
Even when Musk built his Tesla - the brake and accelerator were still where a buyer would expect to find them.
Also instead of having left and right buttons to press there is still a steering wheel - familiarity is important for new users/customers.

This is a product for sale and new customers have to be offered something that is reasonably intuitive.

My suggestion would be for the development team, who I admire considerably, to add the concept of folders to the product.
They could also usefully move the recording function to the 'SYSTEM' user, so that it keeps running if the pc is logged out or reboots, or some such.

[greynolds]

Hi greynolds
Thank you very much for that detailed explanation - it explains much of what I have been experiencing.
I note the syntax but somewhat dread the thought of having to indulge in all that stuff - should I really have to is the question?

I see JR as an excellent 'kit of parts' if I wanted to build a kit car - so to speak - except it is missing the fundamental of folder hierarchy for users like myself.
I don't think WMC users are looking for a trip back to the class room - should they have to?
Even when Musk built his Tesla - the brake and accelerator were still where a buyer would expect to find them.
Also instead of having left and right buttons to press there is still a steering wheel - familiarity is important for new users/customers.

This is a product for sale and new customers have to be offered something that is reasonably intuitive.

My suggestion would be for the development team, who I admire considerably, to add the concept of folders to the product.
They could also usefully move the recording function to the 'SYSTEM' user, so that it keeps running if the pc is logged out or reboots, or some such.

One of the many reasons for not going with the folder structure is that related material may or may not all be stored in the same folder or you may want to include the same file in different groups.  Using tagged information instead allows you to group things that are spread across multiple locations in more than 1 way.

Want to have a view of pictures that have flowers in them?  Set up a tagging system for flowers and a view that uses it.
Want to have a view of pictures from your trip(s) to Yellowstone?  Set up a tagging system for Yellowstone and a view that uses it.
Any given file could be tagged for both.

You can't accomplish that if you limit yourself to going by folder structure.

Rather than insisting that JRiver adopt your current views, take some time to understand the product.

I agree with the comment about moving the recording function to a distinct task to isolate it from UI crashes, etc.  But that has been discussed multiple times - the bottom line is they aren't going to do it.

[mcq]

Thanks again for reply.

I understand metadata fairly well - I have developed a 'custom schema' for our school to use with 'Bridge' as it gradually brings its 400year archive into searchable format using MS's Sharepoint and a filter from IFilter shop - and yes it's fantastic to be able to search for 'gasmasks' across pics of physical items, videos and pdfs of ancient documents.
But they have a paid team of archivists doing all this - it's a rewarding but slow process.

From Joe public (retired) point of view they want something simpler and, to them, more natural - without the aggro.

I'm suggesting that JR - which I think has most of the component parts needed - add the possibility of using folders hierarchy for those who simply can't get their heads round it - or won't live that long to embrace another world.

'They aren't going to do it' isn't much of a bottom line is it!

[greynolds]

Thanks again for reply.

I understand metadata fairly well - I have developed a 'custom schema' for our school to use with 'Bridge' as it gradually brings its 400year archive into searchable format using MS's Sharepoint and a filter from IFilter shop - and yes it's fantastic to be able to search for 'gasmasks' across pics of physical items, videos and pdfs of ancient documents.
But they have a paid team of archivists doing all this - it's a rewarding but slow process.

From Joe public (retired) point of view they want something simpler and, to them, more natural - without the aggro.

I'm suggesting that JR - which I think has most of the component parts needed - add the possibility of using folders hierarchy for those who simply can't get their heads round it - or won't live that long to embrace another world.

'They aren't going to do it' isn't much of a bottom line is it!

I’m just trying to help point you in the right direction here.  Coming in with both guns drawn telling them they’re doing it all wrong isn’t going to get you anywhere.  Some of us have been using JRiver for many years and have a pretty good feel for things they aren’t going to change.  I think I’ll bow out and simply wish you well at this point as I’ve got better things to do with my free time.

One more thing - you could get a bit clever and split your path up into one tag per folder level (you can add new custom tags) then set up a Theater View view that goes through each level.  There may be limits for how many levels you could support though.  Lots of ways to get to what you want, including auto populated tags during an import.  So step back and put some thought into it…

[tzr916]

I note the syntax but somewhat dread the thought of having to indulge in all that stuff...

I got through moving from WMC to MC with no use of expressions. And I've managed just fine without them for years.

A much simpler method to start with is import your photos a folder at a time, and apply the "Album" tag during import. Then your "folders" will shows up in groups (like your example photo) in theater view without any other configuration needed.

[mcq]

Sorry greynolds if I upset you - thank you for your contribution anyway.
Thanks tzr916 - yes I see that could be a way forward - I'll give it a try.
Jim - the remark about living that long applied to me!
I was trying to contribute my experience so far as per the thread title WMC > JR

[zybex]

You can create a View and simply add a category of type "filepath", and set it to "\\nas\audio" or whatever your prefix is. The view will then show the folder hierarchy and you can drill down on it. No expression required.

I suppose you can do the same on the Theater view by doing a similar customization on the Theater View settings. The option is there, but I haven't tested it.

[PeeBee51]

Yes, that's the way I did it also

[mcq]

peebee51 and zybex - thanks for replies.
So as I understand it you manually created albums equivalent to your folders and then imported to each at that level?

Can I ask, out of interest - did you then go on and tag all your contents, or did the album exercise meet your needs?
Also once imported I presume you had a 'flat' album - by which I mean that if your imported folder had sub-folders - then they were ignored and everything below the imported folder level was flattened to the same level?
Lastly I presume when you - or anyone else - 'say the wife' - created another folder - then you would have to manually make another album and do another manual import?
Thanks for your help.

[zybex]

So as I understand it you manually created albums equivalent to your folders and then imported to each at that level?

Uh, what? No. You run Import/AutoImport and all files are imported, usually with the correct Artist/Album tags. If not you may need to fix the tags of a few albums so that they are grouped correctly in MC. You can also do a "Fill properties from filename" which helps extract the album/artist/title/track#/etc from the path and filenames. EACH track needs to be tagged correctly for them to be seen as an Album - most of this process is automated and usually you only need to fix some stragglers. There are many different methods of importing and tagging, but you were asking about a breakdown per folder, not about importing/tagging.

Can I ask, out of interest - did you then go on and tag all your contents, or did the album exercise meet your needs?
Also once imported I presume you had a 'flat' album - by which I mean that if your imported folder had sub-folders - then they were ignored and everything below the imported folder level was flattened to the same level?
Lastly I presume when you - or anyone else - 'say the wife' - created another folder - then you would have to manually make another album and do another manual import?
Thanks for your help.

No. Tracks are imported, and if they already have some metadata in them that is also imported and used to group the files into albums, otherwise you need to manually tag them. MC also uses an online query to find out the metadata for unknown albums/tracks (I believe).

You seem to be confusing the folder layout with MC's grouping/folder/views. ALL tracks imported into MC can be viewed on a flat list (sorted by any metadata property), or grouped by ANY set of common metadata tags. You can have the traditional "album" grouping, or you can also group per year/decade, per artist, per country, per ANYTHING. You can create views with multiple levels that you can drilldown on, like Decade -> Artist -> Album. You can apply filters to show/hide only tracks or albums that fit some criteria, and sort the tracks by whatever order you like. All this works regardless of where the physical files are located on disk, it's all metadata-based. You need to make sure the imported tracks are tagged correctly, then you can view them in any way you like. Drilling down on the folder structure is just another view scheme that uses the filepath of each track to group them.

To handle new folders, just set up Auto-Import - it runs periodically and imports any new files into MC. Or run Auto-Import manually whenever you add files to your NAS.

[mcq]

I got through moving from WMC to MC with no use of expressions. And I've managed just fine without them for years.

A much simpler method to start with is import your photos a folder at a time, and apply the "Album" tag during import. Then your "folders" will shows up in groups (like your example photo) in theater view without any other configuration needed.

Thanks zybex I understand that regarding audio - but I was originally asking about photos - or for instance scanned pictures from photo albums where no relevant metadata exists, but are currently held in appropriately named UNC folders.
tzr916 refers in the quote.
Commercial audio is easier of course because it comes with at least some meta data in the first place.
Basically I want to group by folder names 'cos that's what I've got, I don't want to group by meta tags 'cos that's what I haven't got and would be too much effort to add to every item.
Would be good if in addition to existing groupings, JR could perform grouping by folder hierarchy - which still - most domestic users do.
Perhaps if tzr916 is still 'listening' he could respond to my earlier post?

[zybex]

I mentioned above how to accomplish the folder hierarchy drilldown view, that works for photos as well. Did you try that? Of course, the photos need to be imported first, but they don't need to have any tagging.

You can use the "Fill properties from filename" function to extract the relevant metadata from your current folder structure into the photo's tags. After importing, just select the files, right-click -> Library -> Fill Properties From Filename.

[mcq]

Thanks zybex
Just trying to get all this to happen automatically (and set as a default) when new folders appear on the remote stores.
What I don't want to have do is to keep exiting the Theatre view to 'coral' the contents.
Other than ideology, is there any reason folder hierarchy and naming can't be an option for those who want to live like that? 
I write this in the context of this thread which, as I understand it is about helping WMC users ease onto JR as a replacement.

[greynolds]

I mentioned above how to accomplish the folder hierarchy drilldown view, that works for photos as well. Did you try that? Of course, the photos need to be imported first, but they don't need to have any tagging.

I played around with that a bit in TheaterView yesterday.  It's a bit tricky, as it always is, to figure out which type of item you need to add to the TheaterView configuration in order to be able to select the "filepath" category, but it does work.  Obviously, it only works well if ALL photos are on the same drive and under a common top level folder as you can only specify one path to use, but it sounds like that will work in the above use case.  It's certainly a good quick way to be able to view photos in something other than a flat view without having to do a bunch of tagging, come up with regular expressions to extract the folder structure, etc.

You can use the "Fill properties from filename" function to extract the relevant metadata from your current folder structure into the photo's tags. After importing, just select the files, right-click -> Library -> Fill Properties From Filename.

If the photo filenames are the typical filenames that come out of a camera, which I suspect is the case, will this do anything useful?  Obviously with something like TV shows if the filenames are in the standard Series.EpisodeName,Sseason#Eepisode# format, it will do something useful, but I'm not sure it will for photos.

[mcq]

Thanks greynolds
Think you are right on all counts - especially as camera filenames (and scanned prints) have useless names and not much if any useful meta - the folder name is the only useful thing.

As per my reply - which crossed yours - much easier for those that want to live in this 'sub-optimal' way to have JR to accommodate folder hierarchy import and Theatre display - please.

Appreciate all who have contributed

[zybex]

You keep asking for this new feature - but as I said and greynolds confirmed, it DOES already do what you want. Have you tried it?

Obviously, it only works well if ALL photos are on the same drive and under a common top level folder as you can only specify one path to use, but it sounds like that will work in the above use case.

Just leave the "select path" box blank, then it will show all drives and source paths.

[mcq]

I'll try again

[greynolds]

You keep asking for this new feature - but as I said and greynolds confirmed, it DOES already do what you want. Have you tried it?
Just leave the "select path" box blank, then it will show all drives and source paths.

Oh, OK.  A bit of judicious filtering would probably be needed in that case to filter out some photos that one might not want to browse, depending on how things like album art (for example) are set up.

[Yaobing]

Oh, OK.  A bit of judicious filtering would probably be needed in that case to filter out some photos that one might not want to browse, depending on how things like album art (for example) are set up.

The filtering can be done using "Set rules for file display..."

Suppose, you have some pictures you don't want to show, and they are inside a subfolder named "Ugly pictures never to be shown", then you can exclude them by adding a rule like:

"filename (path)" "does not contain" "Ugly pictures never to be shown".

[mcq]

Thanks Yaobing
I'm really trying to avoid all this 'coding'.

Again going back to this thread's purpose - WMC users never have to do any of these adjustments it just works OOB - 
How difficult would it be to have the option 'Import respecting File Hierarchy'
Yes I know the balloon is about to go up - but what's wrong with an option - doesn't mean everyone has to do it that way - bit like having the choice of recording format.

Putting my hard hat on now! 

[Yaobing]

@mcq

What greynolds, zybex, and I talked about is to set up a Theater View view.  It is a simple process and once done, you should get your pictures displayed according to folders.  Here is how:

In Standard View, click Tools > Options.  Select "Theater View" in the left panel.  Near the middle of the window you should see "Items to Show", a window showing a structured list.  Scroll down the list and find Image and select it, and then click "Add..." button right next to the list.  From the popup window select "Library Item".  An item with name "New Library Item" is created.  Rename the name to whatever you like.  Below the Name field there is an empty box.  Click "Add..." to the right of that box.  In the resulting window select "File path" under Type.  Click OK (without setting any actual path - this way you will get all your imported images displayed).  Now you are back to the Options window.  In the previously empty box right below the Name field, you now see "Location".  Below the box you see a (long) button, that says "Set rules for file display...".  Click that if you want to set up some rules (for example to exclude certain folders from being displayed), as I described in my previous post.

[zybex]

Sorry to interject again

There is no coding, it's really just about selecting the menu and dropdown options to produce what you want. I agree it's a bit complicated, but that's just because there are so many menus and customization options to chose from that it ends up requiring some time to get it working as you like. Maybe someone can post some screenshots to guide you.

There's also a Wiki with info and guides on how to customize your regular views and Theater views, some reading may help you too. I suggest you make a database backup (CTRL+SHIFT+B) and just start clicking on stuff to see what happens, that's also a valid learning method.

[Yaobing]

You know what?  The view already exists in Theater View.  It is called "Disk".  It is just  not the first item under Image.  If you want, you can move it up the list and make it the first item under Image.

[mcq]

Are you pulling my leg after all this time?
How come nobody else knew - or said so?

Yaobing - I think you know I respect you considerably.
I will start again tomorrow
Happy Easter!

[Yaobing]

How come nobody else knew - or said so?

People who knew have not seen this thread.  People who saw this thread did not need to show images the way you wanted to

Happy Easter!

Same to you, and to all!

[zybex]

You know what?  The view already exists in Theater View.  It is called "Disk".

AH! Brilliant

Yeah, not many people use that for sure, and even fewer of them roam these forums. The problem with having so many features added over time is that some of them just go out of use and even the developers forget they exist. It's just how it is.

Happy Easter!

[mcq]

Thanks Yaobing - exactly what we need - I see no mention of this on any Wiki - maybe I've missed it.

I'm formulating a few more questions regarding this layout for you as you seem to understand it.

Thanks again.

[mcq]

Hi Yaobing
I wonder if you can shed a bit more light on 'Disk' view now that I know about it!
1) I like 'Disk' view in Images as it simply shows the folders from the remote shares as I would wish to see them, but 'Disk' view in Videos shows a list - as per attached - where as I'd like it laid out as Images does - how do I do that please?
2) In Images 'Disk' view when I select a picture I have to go through a meta page which for me is useless - how do I go direct to the image FS?
3) Can I use any picture as a background to Theatre view - e.g. something less dark?

Many thanks
Don

[JimH]

Explore all the options in the top menu. 

For your last question, no  but go to Tools > Options > Theater View and try different themes.

[Yaobing]

2) In Images 'Disk' view when I select a picture I have to go through a meta page which for me is useless - how do I go direct to the image FS?

Just press Play button at any level in that view, fullscreen playback starts.  Then use Left/Right arrow buttons to cycle through all images in the selected folder (including subfolders).