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[park]

A curated wiki with a navigation/page heirachy would be great. Something like wikijs

[mattkhan]

A curated wiki with a navigation/page heirachy would be great. Something like wikijs

Last time I attempted to update the wiki, I wrote https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started which is an attempt to create such a landing page which just routes you to other pages and attempts to direct you based on use case

Imv every product wiki ends up needing such a page, probably find to revisit this

I think a board that collects the threads from old version boards would be a similar thing in terms of reducing the need to hunt for info and giving the user a way to know for sure they have found all the threads. It is basically a curated index to augment a search.

[JimH]

Last time I attempted to update the wiki, I wrote https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started which is an attempt to create such a landing page which just routes you to other pages and attempts to direct you based on use case

Imv every product wiki ends up needing such a page, probably find to revisit this

I think a board that collects the threads from old version boards would be a similar thing in terms of reducing the need to hunt for info and giving the user a way to know for sure they have found all the threads. It is basically a curated index to augment a search.

In my opinion, though these are good ideas, a Google search almost always wins.  I use it all the time even though I know the forum and wiki pretty well.

[mattkhan]

In my opinion, though these are good ideas, a Google search almost always wins.  I use it all the time even though I know the forum and wiki pretty well.

They're not mutually exclusive

The way info is scattered across n wiki pages and m threads is a real problem imv, search does precisely nothing to help with this. Searching for things unknown or only vaguely known is also a problem that is helped by such curation.

[JimH]

They're not mutually exclusive

The way info is scattered across n wiki pages and m threads is a real problem imv, search does precisely nothing to help with this. Searching for things unknown or only vaguely known is also a problem that is helped by such curation.

Whether the information is perfectly structured or scattered all over is unimportant so long as you can find it when you need it.

I used to have a photo of Einstein's desk on the wall next to mine.  It made me feel better about mine.

[mattkhan]

Whether the information is perfectly structured or scattered all over is unimportant so long as you can find it when you need it.

yes I know, I'm saying that such an approach exists to

1) augment search by making it easier to find the things you are looking for and the things you didn't even know you needed

i.e. for the cases where you don't really know the search term

2) to help understand whether your search results are complete

aka structure *is* important (given the current capabilities of a search engine)

[astromo]

In my opinion, though these are good ideas, a Google search almost always wins.  I use it all the time even though I know the forum and wiki pretty well.

Jim, your comment makes me think of how I view TreeSize for finding files on my Windows PC. The standard Explorer offering from M$ is truly rubbish at quickly locating files and no matter how logically I folderise (if that's a word?) the filing structure, I invariably forget where I've salted something useful away. TreeSize will virtually always come to my rescue when memory lets me down.

I can gather your comment captures functional effect for minimal maintenance burden? Along the lines of excellent bang for buck.

[Awesome Donkey]

It's a shame you can't get ChatGPT or some other AI to do it for you.

[tzr916]

Just take a peak at the KODI wiki... structure, layers, details, screenshots, graphics, tutorials, updates, etc...

JRiver wiki start page => "This page was last modified on 18 January 2016"
vs
KODI wiki start page => "This page was last edited on 22 February 2023"

 ?

[JimH]

I don't think that date is right.  I see a 2015 date on the index (which should be the start page) and I know I've edited it in the last couple of years.

[pge]

yes I know, I'm saying that such an approach exists to

1) augment search by making it easier to find the things you are looking for and the things you didn't even know you needed

i.e. for the cases where you don't really(NEW: OpenSubtitles Lookup « on: February 08, 2017 ») know the search term

2) to help understand whether your search results are complete

aka structure *is* important (given the current capabilities of a search engine)

I second that.

You don't have to look to Kodi, every self respecting software firm out there has a better user manual, features and functions overview and/or wiki.
That's the main reason why I can't recommend JRiver to friends or family.
Put yourself in the user's shoes, not everyone is a computer geek, not every user is US based and native english reading and writing.
Just because you can find (and recognize) the right answer doesn't mean everyone else can too.

Some recurring questions are never answered satisfactorily or lead to more headache.

How do I know if a particular feature is available and working when a search finds many issues in several previous releases?
What happened to features that were announced but never actually worked, should I dive back in or give up?

What I can think of, off the top of my head:

- Subtitle lookup on tv series. (NEW: OpenSubtitles Lookup « on: February 08, 2017 »)
- TV and EPG from outside the US.
- An easy button for starting auto-import in theater view without DIY programming.
- Easier sync of subtitles in theater view.
- In theater view you can organize everything nicely, but browsing in JRemote is still a mess.
- You need some decent skins or you get Van Gogh. Yes, I am Dutch, but this is ridiculous.
- 3D SBS function (side by side). Does that work (plug & play) to the projector? ("Media Center 21 introduces support for natively playing 3D Blu-rays and 3D MKV files" « on: March 22, 2016 »).
- Documentation « on: September 21, 2019 ». Recurring request; you don't have a problem, why someone else does: We are not you..

A disappointing approach, on your part, when it comes to delivering user experience to an otherwise good product.

[JimH]

I'll reply below.

You don't have to look to Kodi, every self respecting software firm out there has a better user manual, features and functions overview and/or wiki.

Thanks.

That's the main reason why I can't recommend JRiver to friends or family.

Your decision to make.

Put yourself in the user's shoes, not everyone is a computer geek, not every user is US based and native english reading and writing.

Yes, of course.  We have quite a mix of users.  Most are not very technical, but manage anyway.

We can't answer in every language.  You can use translate.google.com to translate web pages.

Just because you can find (and recognize) the right answer doesn't mean everyone else can too.

I can't find the answer sometimes.  It happens.  It's normal.

Some recurring questions are never answered satisfactorily or lead to more headache.

Correct.  No individual or company could answer all your questions.

How do I know if a particular feature is available and working when a search finds many issues in several previous releases?

Search.  Search using Google and adding "JRiver".  Try it.

It's up to you to decide which posts are relevant. 

What happened to features that were announced but never actually worked, should I dive back in or give up?

I can't imagine what you should do.

What I can think of, off the top of my head:
- Subtitle lookup on tv series. (NEW: OpenSubtitles Lookup « on: February 08, 2017 »)
- TV and EPG from outside the US.
- An easy button for starting auto-import in theater view without DIY programming.
- Easier sync of subtitles in theater view.
- In theater view you can organize everything nicely, but browsing in JRemote is still a mess.
- You need some decent skins or you get Van Gogh. Yes, I am Dutch, but this is ridiculous.
- 3D SBS function (side by side). Does that work (plug & play) to the projector? ("Media Center 21 introduces support for natively playing 3D Blu-rays and 3D MKV files" « on: March 22, 2016 »).
- Documentation « on: September 21, 2019 ». Recurring request; you don't have a problem, why someone else does: We are not you.

[pge]

Sorry Jim, you're right, I'm frustrated, but that doesn't change the fact that the documentation is out of date.

To all the items above, the answer is no, that's not going to work. Only the option to play 3D video is still open (projector has recently been added). So if you have the answer to that, please do.

[Daydream]

Jim, your comment makes me think of how I view TreeSize for finding files on my Windows PC. T

Wait, what!? You know Everything from Voidtool exists, right? And it's free.

Just take a peak at the KODI wiki...

I'm a Kodi diehard, but the timing of bringing up anything Kodi is a bit, ahem... off?

To add my 2 cents to the topic... I think MC does too many things. And some of them are user-originated, rather complex and lost in the forum messages. And somebody, even an advanced user, could grind at an issue by trying to brute force it, only to later find out by pure dumb luck that there was a fast, elegant way to do it. A search won't help because "you don't know what you don't know". And the wiki, the wiki lacks depth in various places, to set a user on the right path.

Anyways, this may be just the effect. The wiki is not complete, the search needs to go to Google, etc. Something to point to. MC does too many things, and many of those things are far from being immediately obvious to somebody new to it.

[mattkhan]

an example of something that is

a) actually documented somewhere
b) where that somewhere is only buried in a random old thread 
c) which you can find if and only if you really know exactly what to look for
d) representative of something that really shouldn't be this hard

the thing in question is filtering a view for a numeric field being greater than x

initially you think simply [myfield]>=2 works but this is actually just a lexical comparison which you find out when you try [myfield]>=2.2

ultimately the solution is the rather obscure

[=Compare([myfield],>,2.2)]=1

NB: once you know this then it's possible to reverse engineer your way to a search that would land you at https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Search_Language#Searching_with_Expressions

[ScottTheGrue]

It's a shame you can't get ChatGPT or some other AI to do it for you.

THIS !

Both M$ and Google have their AI-driven Chatbots  delivering answers using the data on the internet including all of JRiver wiki.   You can try it out now by going to  https://bard.google.com  or  www.bing.com (using MS-Edge browser)  and typing into the chatbot any of your JRiver Media Center questions:

"How do I use particles in JRiver Media Center?"
"How do I hook up an external DAC to JRiver Media Center?"

The yabbwiki is the primary source of information that Microsoft and Google use to fuel their JRiver answers in these ChatGPT driven interfaces,  but many many people will feel that asking their questions to the Chatbot  will be an easier way to get their answers rather than a straight Google search  or hunting through the current wiki

[jctcom]

I am one of possibly few people who reads manuals.  Usually after I have an item / product / software up and running already.

The reason I like to go back and read the "Manual" is because I often discover features I didn't realize were there.  not realizing they are there I of course do not know to search for them.

The Wiki as far as I understand is the only thing close to a "Manual" for JRiver MC.  Since it is so out of date and / or disorganized it is not practical to use it in this instance.  Nor is there any other way of being sure you have fully realized JRiver's potential.

Carl.