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Author Topic: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers  (Read 5389 times)

Hilton

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Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« on: November 25, 2020, 04:27:15 am »

I ordered some Lawton Chambers today for my Fostex TH610..  Will be interesting to see the difference in the sound from the different wood hardness / reverberation characteristics.  The chambers are a fair bit bigger too.

Should arrive by Friday.

Wild Ziricote
Wild Ziricote by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen
Wild Chechen by Hilton, on Flickr

Flame Marbled Walnut
Flame Marbled Walnut by Hilton, on Flickr

Black Limba
Black Limba by Hilton, on Flickr

2pin2mmcx-th610 by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2020, 08:23:14 am »

Just doing some more research before they get here.

Will also do testing with minidsp Ears... Not just frequency response but also decay/reverb tests.

Janka Hardness in pounds-force - 

Walnut 1010 lbf  (stock TH610 cups)
Zelkova Serratta 1040 lbf (Sony R10 Cups - just for comparison)

Wild Ziricote 1970 / 2200 lbf
Wild Chechen 2250 / 2300 lbf
Flame Marbled Walnut 1010 lbf 
Black Limba 490 /840 lbf
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jmone

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 02:00:19 am »

They do look good!
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2020, 03:45:31 am »

Initial impressions of Wild Chechen...

Definitely fatter sub bass at 30-50hz and fuller bass around 80hz.
Still tight and fast sounding, not much difference in midrange and treble detected.

hmmmm.  might have fixed the occassional sibilance around 6-8k!  More listening required....
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2020, 05:30:43 am »

Just WOW WOW WOW... amazing in every way....

The fit and finish is spectacular!

The sound seems tighter but also deeper and fatter and also smoother in the upper midrage and lower treble where the stock TH610's have a tendancy to be siblant on some brightly recorded tracks.

The sparkle, air, separation, width and staging is there and even sweeter since the edge has been just so slightly taken away at around 5-6k.

Im my opinion this has made the TH610 the perfect headphones with the Wild Chechen. Not sure how I'm going to go with the others since this has spoilt me now I think!

The bass is just sooo good, just sounds like a really good fat dynamic and fast kick that you get in a good live gig in a small/medium room with warm and tight bass from bass guitar.

Listening to everything from Glitterbox EDM night club stuff, to Steely Dan Gaucho, Tracy Chapman Baby Can I Hold You - nice bass..  Super Tramp Still in Love...

And Hoff Ensemble - Polarity...  WOW - feels like im in the room with that beautiful double bass and Piano!
Hoff Ensemble - Polarity by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2020, 06:07:01 am »

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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2020, 02:33:45 am »

Youtube video of Wild Chechen to Black Limba change over inbound... ;)

Black Limba only a subtle difference in sound so far but definitely a little warmer sounding in the 70- 120hz region...  No sign of sibilance. :)

Lawton Black Limba TH610 by Hilton, on Flickr

Lawton Black Limba TH610 by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2020, 03:01:30 am »

Youtube video of Wild Chechen to Black Limba Lawton Chamber Changeover on TH610.
1080p is up - 4K is up!

https://youtu.be/_y4hTXDa0PU
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kensn

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2020, 11:03:45 am »

They look absolutely beautiful!
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2020, 07:50:14 pm »

They look absolutely beautiful!

Thanks they certainly are!

Just some insight to the cup design from Mark - I'm sure he wont mind me sharing his thoughts on my question... How did you decide on the size of the cups??? to which he replied.. (that I agree with completely)

"Myself, I feel one can only obtain just so much info from measurements, the real test is listening.

Rather than just making a copy of the original cups, we wanted to make as many improvements as possible to the design.

Cups serve a purpose, acting as a combination of speaker cabinet and body of a musical instrument.

If you treat them seriously this way, you can get a lot more out of the headphone itself.

We are on the second generation of our cups, original versions (2008-2011) were also deeper than stock cups and were an excellent upgrade.

Ultimately, with some very sophisticated new equipment providing almost total control, we were able to do everything we ever wanted in terms of perfecting the shape inside and out, getting wall thicknesses to taper just right, etc.

Development of the current generation was extended, many forms/shapes were tried before we reached the shape you now see.

I may be in minority, but I genuinely prefer closed to open headphones, all other things being equal.

But the catch always is reduction of soundstage size and a bit of a reverberant “sea shell” effect.

Bigger cups with correct internal volume and shape really help push the soundstage out.

We use a small piece of acoustic foam inside the cups which helps prevent some of the internal reflections which also helps the enclosure disappear a bit.

Customers are constantly surprised at what a difference cups can make.

Enjoy!

Mark Lawton"
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2020, 06:41:53 am »

Wild Ziricote Type 5 Lawton Cup.....   VERY different

Much less bass overall and what's there is super tight and extends low.  More forward mid range and top end - much more vocal oriented. No sharpness in treble but definitely brighter but not too bright.

So far favourites are Wild Chechen (Type 4) followed by Black Limba (Type 1). Black Limba was much much warmer and fuller sounding. More listening to be done!

TH610_Wild_Ziricote_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr

TH610_Wild_Ziricote_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr

TH610_Wild_Ziricote_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr

TH610_Wild_Ziricote_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2020, 09:56:21 pm »

TH610 swapped over to Flame Marble Walnut Lawton Cups..



Ahhh thats better - a bit of warmth has come back as well as punch and depth to the bass.  Very nice.



TH610_Flame_Marble_Walnut_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr



TH610_Flame_Marble_Walnut_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr



TH610_Flame_Marble_Walnut_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr



TH610_Flame_Marble_Walnut_Lawton_Cups by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2020, 11:21:44 pm »

Stock TH610 Walnut Cups - 1.4oz / 41grams - Type 1 - Janka Hardness 1010
LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

Lawton Black Limba Cups - 2.3oz / 65grams - Type 1 - Janka Hardness 490 > 840
LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

Lawton Flame Marbled Walnut - 2.4oz / 69grams - Type 1 - Janka Hardness 1010
LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

Lawton Wild Chechen - 3.4oz / 95grams - Type 4 - Janka Hardness 2250 > 2300
LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

Lawton Wild Ziricote - 4.1oz / 115grams - Type 5 - Janka Hardness 1970 > 2200
LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr

LAWTON_Cup_Weights by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2020, 11:42:01 pm »

Wild Chechen Type 4 definitely my favourite overall for refinement and versatility. 
Tighter bass that extends low, still has good impact and force and a nice timbre and not boomy.

Sweet top end that shimmers but doesnt bite and still extends nicely.

Mid range is forward and full but not in your face. 
Just my perfect kinda headphones!

Was listening back to back with Flame Marbled Walnut / Wild Chechen and the Walnut has a nice warmth but with double bass in Jazz it can be a little fuzzy sounding, while the Wild Chechen just sounds natural and full with great impact and articulation with just the right amount of warmth.
(Diana Krall - Look of Love & also Jeff Hamilton Treo - Live from San Pedro)

The walnut is great with dance and rock and just about everything else but the Wild Chechen has got me. :)
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2020, 04:49:46 am »

I've been using the Black Limba all day today and am really enjoying them.

Something I've noticed is the treble and upper midrange is slightly more gentle on the Black Limba.  The Wild Chechen has a slightly harder edge to it so the Black Limba is very nice and punchy and warm but without the edgyness.



https://tidal.com/browse/track/91916863

Lawton Black Limba TH610 by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2020, 11:15:43 pm »

Wife bought me Omega Headphone Stand for Birthday!  Very Nice!
New Stand by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2021, 12:27:44 am »

Bought an iFi iDSD Signature to use around the house.

These cans definitely benefit from having at least 1000mw driving them that’s for sure. 4100mw on tap, more than enough!

More snap, punch and control and less distortion is really noticeable. Can listen much much louder than I should be because they sound so clear. If anyone is thinking of changing their cans maybe buy a decent higher end amp if you’ve got an entry level Amp. I wouldn’t call RME ADI-2 I have as entry level mind you, but headphone amp stage is a little light on compared to this beast. The ifi has really woken them up.

Only get upto 96k with a chromecast but that’s good enough for 90% of my music.

Have a small battery pack powering the chromecast. Nice to have something a bit easier to move around the house than the RME. I can’t believe how much better it sounds than the fiio Q5S tc with the THX amp. I also checked out the ifi diablo and it was a little less warmer (cooler sounding) than the signature but otherwise very similar.

This is the best I've been able to come up with using the bits I had in my collection to make the ifi iDSD Signature tether free from the phone or tablet.

It's even pocketable in my shorts without any trouble so I can walk around the house untethered to my phone.

Couple right angle mini TOSLINKs to take pressure off the connections and a mini battery pack strapped on with short TOSLINK cable.

Can probably make it even more compact with some custom cables and enclosure for the chromecast.  Still pretty happy to have some mobility with the stuff I had laying around.
iFi iDSD Signature Chromcast Audio TOSLINK by Hilton, on Flickr

iFi iDSD Signature Chromcast Audio TOSLINK by Hilton, on Flickr

iFi iDSD Signature Chromcast Audio TOSLINK by Hilton, on Flickr

iFi iDSD Signature Chromcast Audio TOSLINK by Hilton, on Flickr





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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2021, 05:28:04 am »

The Bass in God is a Woman (Ariana Grande), Dancing With a Stranger (Sam Smith) and Magic (Kylie Minogue) .....are.... SUBLIME with the Black Limba's and the iFi iDSD on normal gain @ 1 o'clock on the volume dial!  This is how POP music should sound. MAGIC. :yum  Loud in yer face and thumping.

That's where type 1 or 2 woods truly rock!  Type 4 Wild Chechen can't compete with the kick, power and warmth of the Type 1 Black Limba where you just wanna feel da bass...  and that's without flicking the xBass or 3D switch on the Amp.  Type 4 with the xBass come close to the Type 1  but still lacking a little warmth.  They are still great though for rock or more complex music, or Jazz where you need a little more articulation in the bass.

iFi iDSD Signature - TH610 Lawton Black Limba by Hilton, on Flickr

Intimacy of Wild Chechen with Hoff Ensemble - Polarity..
iFi micro iDSD Signature TH610 by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2021, 08:51:57 am »

The portable rig....

iFi iDSD Signature
Note 20 ultra
iPad Mini v5
Brydge 7.9 Wireless keyboard
Shutter Remote BT Remote
Fostex TH610 w/ Lawton Chambers (or Campfire Audio Andromeda's)
ALO Litz Pure Silver 4.4 pentacon cable (mmcx to 2pin adapters)
Aviator crumbled satchel

iFi iDSD portable rig by Hilton, on Flickr


iFi iDSD portable rig by Hilton, on Flickr


iFi iDSD portable rig by Hilton, on Flickr

Perfect Fit!!
Perfect fit by Hilton, on Flickr

2pin2mmcx-litz by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2023, 09:58:44 am »

Finally get to properly A/B test my Lawton Chambers...
TH610 TH610 TH610... by Hilton, on Flickr

20230705_184815 by Hilton, on Flickr

Here's some measurements...
Im new to REW so excuse me if I got this wrong...
This is comparing a brand new pair of TH610 out of box with another brand new pair with Wild Chechen measured on minidsp EARS using the HEQ Mic calibration.
This is with a very light clamping of the HP to the EARS with a small elastic to properly seal the headphone at the top of the earcup.
As you can see the sub-bass is significantly better - Wild Chechen chambers are even flat down to 10hz (where I started the measurement from)
The occasional sibilance you could hear in stock TH610 is also drastically reduced as you can see with the dip at 3K compared with stock chambers.
Much more to come. I also have some "reference" original HD600's with new earpads to measure against and several other HP's.

Right Stock TH610 Black Walnut Chamber
RHQ-Stock by Hilton, on Flickr

Right TH610 Wild Chechen Chamber
RHQ-Chechen by Hilton, on Flickr

Right TH610 Wild Chechen vs Stock Walnut Chamber ( Purple Chechen / Orange Stock)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock by Hilton, on Flickr

Black Limba
RHQ-Limba by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen vs Stock vs Black Limba (Purple/Orange/Green)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock-vs-Limba by Hilton, on Flickr

Here's Flame Marble Walnut
RHQ-Marble by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Ziricote
RHQ-Ziricote by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen vs Stock vs Black Limba vs Flame Marble Walnut vs Wild Ziricote (Purple/Orange/Green/Yellow/Red)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock-vs-Limba-vs-Marble-vs-Ziricote by Hilton, on Flickr

HD600
RHQ-HD600 by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen vs Stock vs Black Limba vs Flame Marble Walnut vs Wild Ziricote vs HD600 (Purple/Orange/Green/Yellow/Red/Light-Blue)
RHQ-Chechen-vs-Stock-vs-Limba-vs-Marble-vs-Ziricote-vs-HD600 by Hilton, on Flickr

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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2023, 06:08:15 am »

Time for the good stuff. Not sure if I've captured this correctly but I've given a shot!

TH610 Stock Chamber Waterfall
TH610 Stock Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen Waterfall
RHQ Chechen Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr

Black Limba Waterfall
RHQ Limba Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr

Flame Marble Walnut Waterfall
RHQ Marble Walnut Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Ziricote Waterfall
RHQ Ziricote Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr

HD600 Waterfall
RHQ HD600 Waterfall by Hilton, on Flickr

TH610 Stock Chamber RT60 Decay
TH610 Stock RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen RT60 Decay
RHQ Chechen RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr

Black Limba RT60 Decay
RHQ Limba RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr

Flame Marble Walnut RT60 Decay
RHQ Marble Walnut RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Ziricote RT60 Decay
RHQ Ziricote RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr

HD600 RT60 Decay (contaminated by background noise???)
RHQ HD600 RT60 decay by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2023, 06:08:52 am »

TH610 Stock Chamber Noise + THD
TH610 Noise by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen Noise + THD
RHQ Chechen Noise by Hilton, on Flickr

Black Limba Noise + THD
RHQ Limba Noise by Hilton, on Flickr

Flame Marble Walnut Noise + THD
RHQ Marble Walnut Noise by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Ziricote Noise + THD
RHQ Ziricote Noise by Hilton, on Flickr

HD600 Noise + THD
RHQ HD600 Noise by Hilton, on Flickr

TH610 Stock Chamber CSD
TH610 Stock CSD by Hilton, on Flickr

Wild Chechen CSD
RHQ Chechen CSD by Hilton, on Flickr

Black Limba CSD
RHQ Limba CSD by Hilton, on Flickr

Flame Marble Walnut CSD
RHQ Marble Walnut CSD by Hilton, on Flickr


Wild Ziricote CSD
RHQ Ziricote CSD by Hilton, on Flickr

HD600 CSD
RHQ HD600 CSD by Hilton, on Flickr
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Hilton

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Re: Fostex TH610 aftermarket Lawton Chambers
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2023, 06:09:20 am »

I've also retested the TH610 stock Chamber again after someone thought 6db gain from Chambers alone seems too good to be true... but alas a retest clearly shows that the difference is indeed 6db (apart from the Ziricote which is a very dense heavy wood)

TH610 Stock Retest by Hilton, on Flickr

20230714_202801 by Hilton, on Flickr
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