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[BullishDad]

I looked in Library Tools and couldn't find anything that I could use to shorten the length of the name tag.

My car stereo can read a Playlist, but the track name including extension can't exceed 30 characters.  I'm looking for an easy way to rename the tags so that it will work properly on the car stereo.

Any ideas?

[GHammer]

Your player probably supports ID3V1
There are a number of apps that will copy the ID3V2 info into V1
The Godfather is my favorite tag tool and I know it will do this for you.

http://users.otenet.gr/~jtcliper/tgf/

[BullishDad]

Thanks GHammer, I've taken a quick look at The Godfather and it probably more involved than I need right now.  I didn't see any easy way to shorten the Name field.  I may try again when I have more time.

My car player does support IDv2 and 1, but the 30 character limitation sounds like it is not fully supporting v2.  

Is there a way to have MC display the IDv1 Name in the Name field?  

[GHammer]

If your car player supports V2, then it should not take only 30 characters. But maybe that is the way they want to display the info.

For copying V2 to V1 tags, open the app
Click the Tag button
Navigate to the top of the folder your music is in.
Check the 'Sub folders' box in the lower left of the window.
Click the 'Scan' icon
Once all the files are displayed, click 'Batch jobs...'
Choose Sync and then Copy ID3V2 to ID3V1
Answer Yes to the confirmation.

All done.

[BullishDad]

Thanks for the step by step instructions.

Unfortunately, I don't think copying v2 to v1 will solve my problem.  I would still need a way to get the shorter v1 Track Name into MC so that I could burn the CD and create a Playlist.

Everything works on the car unit except that if the Track Name exceeds 30 characters, it will be ignored in the Playlist.  The song is accessible when played from its folder location.

I really need to get the song title down to 21 characters for it to be working in the Playlist because 5 characters are added for the Track# and 4 for the .mp3 extension.  (If I don't include Track#, then albums don't play in order)

[LonWar]

Curious... What kind of car radio is it.... I was under the impression that no car stereo read the Playlist file...

[BullishDad]

It's the Alpine CDA-9831.  It will read up to 5 Playlist files.  MC creates one when you burn the disk which includes all files.  I use Notepad to edit the MC file and reduce it to include only the tracks I want in the Playlist.

I've been creating a "Favorite Tracks" type Playlist so I can choose to listen to only those songs on the list.  However, I've run into the problem where the selection is ignored if either the track name or folder name exceeds 30 characters.

I like the Playlist feature but it has some limitations.  You can't use the Random Mode on it, and the File Search mode doesn't work on a Playlist.

[GHammer]

The ID3V1 would be there and any device that uses them will see them automatically.

But, there is an easier way.

Why not burn the tracks and have MC write the sequence number for you? Then you do not need to use a playlist that sounds very limited.

MC can write the tracks like this

01-artist-title

It's what I do even on players that support playlists. Just easier.

[hit_ny]

Instead of converting form V2 to V1.

Why not check the msg boards for you car player, its possible other users have complained about it and there might be the possibility of a firmware upgrade.

Since u say the player supports V2 already.

[BullishDad]

I appreciate the suggestions.

I couldn't find a msg board for Alpine, although I found caraudioforum.com.  I may try posting there.

Still trying to figure out a way to shorten the Name field to 23 characters.  (Two char saved by using the Custom file naming and removing the spaces before and after the dash)

I tried adding a new field (Shortname) to the Library, then copy Name to Shortname.  However, I didn't see an option which would let me limit the number of characters in the field.

Are there any fields in the Library that are fixed to a length of 20 characters or so?  If I'm not using that field for anything, I could try copying the Name field there.

[BullishDad]

Just found a great free utility that will allow me to rename the file so that the 30 character limit won't get exceeded.  All I have to do is tell the program to remove from character 24 on.

Hope others find this handy too.
http://www.jimwillsher.co.uk/Site/Software/BRU_Intro.php

[GHammer]

But... That is to rename the file.
We've been talking about the Name/Title fields of the tags.

Way different areas and solutions.

[BullishDad]

But... That is to rename the file.
We've been talking about the Name/Title fields of the tags.

Way different areas and solutions.

You are correct.  I was asking about changing the tag.  The problem was that the filename needed to be 30 characters or less in the Playlist (I did say track name).  I was going to use Rename Filename From Properties function if I could change the Name in the tag first.  That would've been a better solution.

I used the Bulk Rename Utility to change the Filename.  It did its job perfectly.  Unfortunately, that messes up MC10's Library since the file isn't found anymore.  I imported the new filenames into the Library and had some maintenance from there.

[hit_ny]

Didn't u say that ur Alpine player can read IDV1 &2 tags ?

It seems Alpine wants track filenames to be no more than 30chars.

So its ok if there are IDV2 tags that are greater then 30chars ?

[BullishDad]

Didn't u say that ur Alpine player can read IDV1 &2 tags ?

It seems Alpine wants track filenames to be no more than 30chars.

So its ok if there are IDV2 tags that are greater then 30chars ?

Yes.  It's fine.  You can play tracks from folders without making any changes to the tags or filename.  

My problem has been when I create a Playlist, some of the tracks are ignored.  I think this is where the 30 char limit comes in on the filename.  There also seems to be a limit on the number of characters in the path.  I'm trying to get a definitive answer.

Bottom line is that except for the Playlist function, the unit does a great job reading and playing MP3 disks burned with MC10.

[hit_ny]

My problem has been when I create a Playlist, some of the tracks are ignored.  I think this is where the 30 char limit comes in on the filename.  There also seems to be a limit on the number of characters in the path.  I'm trying to get a definitive answer.

two ways

1 - rename file from properties in MC, you can use a mask like [track#] - [Name] , might not work if your tracktitles are over 30 chars.

2 - use a renamer, you have one already, i used RenameIt! a lot in the past. Quite easy & intuitive.

[BullishDad]

As a follow up, I heard back from Alpine.

This pertains only to creating a Playlist.   They said filenames should not exceed 32 characters or contain any volume information (don't burn with Replay Gain info is my interpretation).

They didn't say anything about the path, but my experience is that the path shouldn't exceed 30 characters.  I can still use Artist/Album folders but must abbreviate to keep the number of characters down.

I'm not sure how often I'll use the Playlist function, but at least now I can create one that works properly.

Again, this character limitation only applies to creating a Playlist and playing it back.  You don't have to worry about any of that if you simply play back from the folder locations.

As I get more familiar with the many functions of the Alpine CDA-9831, the more I like it.  It's a really nice unit that looks and sounds great.  For me, it was a much better alternative to buying a CD changer.

[hit_ny]

As I get more familiar with the many functions of the Alpine CDA-9831, the more I like it.  It's a really nice unit that looks and sounds great.  For me, it was a much better alternative to buying a CD changer.

When i was looking for mp3z on the move, i used a portable CD/mp3 player from iRiver with a cassette adapter.  Slightly messy with wires, but it was easy to stash everything away in the glove compartment when i parked and the sound was good enough for me.

I stayed away from mp3 headunits at the time (cpl yrs back) as they were expensive and did not have the functionality that the Rio Volt had namely "true" resume, very useful to have in a car.

The iRiver developers were really good at geting firmware updates often as well, something the other head unit manufactuers (Kenwood, AIWA, Alpine) did not offer at the time.

iRiver is a Korean cd/Flash player manufacturer and tends to be very responsive to users than the more mainstream Japanese manufactuers. In terms of features they beat the competition hands down.

[GHammer]

This pertains only to creating a Playlist.   They said filenames should not exceed 32 characters or contain any volume information (don't burn with Replay Gain info is my interpretation).

Volume refers to drive info. Like C:\
Replay Gain is ok, but your player likely won't read it. If you use MP3s and want an even sound on any equipment, try MP3Gain. It will change the gain of MP3s without reencoding and does it in a manner all players will use.

[BullishDad]

 

Volume refers to drive info. Like C:
Replay Gain is ok, but your player likely won't read it. If you use MP3s and want an even sound on any equipment, try MP3Gain. It will change the gain of MP3s without reencoding and does it in a manner all players will use.

Thanks for pointing that out, GHammer.  Thinking about it now, you are right as there is no Drive letter in the  m3u file.  Sorry about my misinterpretation of the word volume.

Actually, I do use MP3 gain on the files that will be burned to the MP3 CD.  It works great. I hate fiddling with the volume control on compilation CDs.

Just wonderirng: Would burning the CD using MC10 with the Replay Gain checked and selecting to burn with DSP effects on yield approximately the same result? Or would that only apply to WAV files?

[GHammer]

I have no idea how MC does this, but if they need to decode apply DSP effects then reencode it is a 'bad thing'™ if you are starting with anything other than a lossless format. Since you said MP3, you should avoid processes that reencode them.

[hit_ny]

Just wonderirng: Would burning the CD using MC10 with the Replay Gain checked and selecting to burn with DSP effects on yield approximately the same result? Or would that only apply to WAV files?

Which DSP effects do you intend to use ?

[BullishDad]

Just wonderirng: Would burning the CD using MC10 with the Replay Gain checked and selecting to burn with DSP effects on yield approximately the same result? Or would that only apply to WAV files?

Which DSP effects do you intend to use ?

Just Replay Gain.  I'll take GHammer's advice and stick with MP3 Gain for use on MP3 CDs.  

[hit_ny]

Just Replay Gain.  I'll take GHammer's advice and stick with MP3 Gain for use on MP3 CDs.

Mp3Gain will work. But you need to make an extra copy of what you want to burn or the replaygain previously calculated is invalid. This gets to be a bit tedious after a while. It would be easiest if you could burn w/o using mp3gain at all.

ReplyGain can only be used if the mp3player supports it , which to my knowledge not many do. So i wonder what happens if you burn a CD that has replaygain applied. I think there would be a conversion process.

If your mp3s are good quality 192kbs+, i think the quality loss will be minimal. Since you're not making master copies, you already have the original on your box, the convenience of using one app only might be worth the trade off.

[GHammer]

Just Replay Gain.  I'll take GHammer's advice and stick with MP3 Gain for use on MP3 CDs.

Mp3Gain will work. But you need to make an extra copy of what you want to burn or the replaygain previously calculated is invalid. This gets to be a bit tedious after a while. It would be easiest if you could burn w/o using mp3gain at all.

Why would you need to make an extra copy? MP3Gain changes the header of the MP3 file. MC is not recreating the file unless you ask it do DSP Processing. It is simply writing the existing file out to CD.

[hit_ny]

Why would you need to make an extra copy? MP3Gain changes the header of the MP3 file.

Correct...but when MC  (or any other mp3 player for that matter)  plays the file, it reads the header that was corrected by MP3Gain and then applies the values (that were obtained previously thorugh AA, assuming Replay Gain is checked). Doesn't the application of Replay Gain to an already mp3gained file lower/increase the volume in MC thereby removing the idea of Replay gain.

The above assumes one is using MC as the primary player with Replay Gain.

Either one mp3gains mp3s or uses ReplayGain. Using both is tricky to manage. Hence the reason of making a copy (if one wants to use mp3gain) for burning to listen elsewhere and keep the original Replay gain settings intact to enjoy in MC.

Or suffer slight quality loss and use DSP to burn ReplayGain to CD and be done !!

MC is not recreating the file unless you ask it do DSP Processing. It is simply writing the existing file out to CD.

Agreed.

[GHammer]

Why would you need to make an extra copy? MP3Gain changes the header of the MP3 file.

Correct...but when MC  (or any other mp3 player for that matter)  plays the file, it reads the header that was corrected by MP3Gain and then applies the values (that were obtained previously thorugh AA, assuming Replay Gain is checked). Doesn't the application of Replay Gain to an already mp3gained file lower/increase the volume in MC thereby removing the idea of Replay gain.

The above assumes one is using MC as the primary player with Replay Gain.

Either one mp3gains mp3s or uses ReplayGain. Using both is tricky to manage. Hence the reason of making a copy (if one wants to use mp3gain) for burning to listen elsewhere and keep the original Replay gain settings intact to enjoy in MC.

Or suffer slight quality loss and use DSP to burn ReplayGain to CD and be done !!

MC is not recreating the file unless you ask it do DSP Processing. It is simply writing the existing file out to CD.

Agreed.

I see no difference in using MP3Gain first then allowing MC to do it analyze function.
When the header is changed to say -5 dB by MP3Gain as far as MC analyze is concerned the selection is at that level. Then if you use the MC's DSP function to control the relative volume and it wants the volume to be higher or lower according to the MC replygain info, it simply adds or subtracts from the level the file says it has.

Try it. Copy a clean MP3. Run one through MP3Gain. Use MC audio analyze on both. The MP3Gain'd file will analyze to a lower level then the other (say -6 vs -11). Play them both. You'll hear no level difference.

So, no, not tricky to manage. There is nothing to manage. And better than taking the transcoding hit to quality.

[hit_ny]

Try it. Copy a clean MP3. Run one through MP3Gain. Use MC audio analyze on both. The MP3Gain'd file will analyze to a lower level then the other (say -6 vs -11). Play them both. You'll hear no level difference.

Correct... cept the above assumes that mp3gain was run first and ONLY THEN was Replay gain applied via AA.

What is not clear to me is whether RG uses the volume in the mp3header or gets it from analysing the mp3 ? In other words if a file is mp3gained will RG result in a different value than if it was not mp3gained. It appears from the above that RG gives a different value (than w/o mp3gain) implying RG is affected by mp3gain.

I was referring to the more common case where one has already Replay gained the whole library via AA. If you *THEN* mp3gain these files for the sake of volume normalisation in portable players, the current Replay gain settings they already contain are not acurate and will have to be re-run to be valid when listening in MC.

This is what i mean by tricky to manage, If you did not run AA on the library at all, then i agree with what you said.

[GHammer]

Try it. Copy a clean MP3. Run one through MP3Gain. Use MC audio analyze on both. The MP3Gain'd file will analyze to a lower level then the other (say -6 vs -11). Play them both. You'll hear no level difference.

Correct... cept the above assumes that mp3gain was run first and ONLY THEN was Replay gain applied via AA.

Yep, and if you know you have analyzed your library, then you'd know to do it afterward.Or, if you are concerned about levels then I'd assume you know enough about this sort of thing to know that the level of the file was changed so any other tool that deals in levels would need to be run again.

What is not clear to me is whether RG uses the volume in the mp3header or gets it from analysing the mp3 ? In other words if a file is mp3gained will RG result in a different value than if it was not mp3gained. It appears from the above that RG gives a different value (than w/o mp3gain) implying RG is affected by mp3gain.

Since there is really no way to determine the original level if the global gain field had been changed I'd assume that MC uses the file as is. My experience with the two show that to be the case anyway.

From the MP3Gain info files:

The mp3 format stores the sound information in small chunks called "frames". Each frame represents a fraction of a second of sound. In each frame there is a "global gain" field. This field is an 8-bit integer (so its value can be a whole number from 0 to 255).

When an mp3 player decodes the sound in the frame, it uses the global gain field to multiply the decoded sound samples by 2(gain / 4).

So if you add 1 to this gain field in all the frames in the mp3, you effectively multiply the amplitude of the whole file by 2(1/4) = 119% = +1.5 dB.

I was referring to the more common case where one has already Replay gained the whole library via AA. If you *THEN* mp3gain these files for the sake of volume normalisation in portable players, the current Replay gain settings they already contain are not acurate and will have to be re-run to be valid when listening in MC.

This is what i mean by tricky to manage, If you did not run AA on the library at all, then i agree with what you said.

Oh, but you know you did something to change the level of your files. You should know to run other items that deal with levels again. And there is no need to have two or more copies of the files. Just a little time to analyze one time. Going forward you know to rip, MP3Gain, then import and analyze.

Simple.

[hit_ny]

Oh, but you know you did something to change the level of your files. You should know to run other items that deal with levels again. And there is no need to have two or more copies of the files. Just a little time to analyze one time.

Simple.

Let's say you want to create a CD from a smartlist that picks a random amount of tracks from the library based on genre, ratings etc ?

Two ways

-apply DSP (Replay Gain), burn. Done (albeit little quality loss)

OR

-copy smarlist results to temp dir ( to avoid re-analysing stuff), run mp3gain, burn. delete temp dir. Extra steps but no quality loss.

That works too.

Going forward you know to rip, MP3Gain, then import and analyze.

Yep, this seems to offer the best of both worlds.

Only problem is the older stuf that is not mp3gained, have to re-analyse whole library to get to that point + mp3gain.  Yikes!!  

Maybe its really best to do it GHammer's way after all LOL