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[JimH]

I've installed the latest Media Center - 11.0.218, and firewire transfers between my laptop and Nomad 3 are back to being PAINFULLY slow again.

It's hard to imagine how MC could be the bottleneck there.  Possible, I suppose.

[Robert Taylor]

It's happened before (see top of this thread). If you use the Nomad Explorer software, it's as fast as, but using MC, it's so slow it's unusable.

[Robert Taylor]

11.0.219 is the same...

[SteveG]

One possibility is that your install is not using our custom plugin. Try transferring with WMP and see if the files are equally slow. If so, this would confirm my theory.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

I can use Creative Explorer to transfer files no problems. I don't use Windows Media Player...

How could my install of MC NOT be using the Nomad plugin?

It's definately there under the plugin manager...and I've tried re-installing it from the website...

I've just tried a transfer using the latest build (11.0.220) of MC, still slow as a wet wig!!

cheers
Rob

[SteveG]

Rob,

Does MC show that you have v 11.0.16 of the plugin installed?

Lets define 'slow as a wet wig' so I can test this. Transfer 50MBs of files with conversion disabled. How long does this take?

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

Steve,

Yeah, in MC 11.0.220, under the plugin manager, it shows version 11.0.16 of the Nomad Plugin...

Okay, I copied 55.1Mb in 8 MP3 files from Nomad to disk in MC...took 7 mins 48 secs

I then copied the SAME FILES in Windows Explorer (which uses the Nomad Explorer software from Creative, and it took 29 secs.

That's a significant difference (hence my "wet wig" phrase) 

One thing that I was curious about, if I click on an individual track in the Nomad in MC, at the bottom of the MC window, it says

"Party Out Of Bounds (MP3 - 3:21 - 5.3 MB)(file not found)"

What's with the file not found? The file is definately there on the Nomad, I just copied it twice to my hard drive...

[Buckaroo]

Buckaroo,

Until MC is modified to cover MTP support, you are out of luck with the Micro if you installed the beta firmware which can't be removed. You would be OK if you could remove the firmware, but Creative informs us that this is not possible.

Steve

Any timetable on this? Will it be an 11 feature?

[SteveG]

Lunch,

In regards to the 'File Not Fount' that is fixed in the next build of MC.

In regards to the speed, I sent 50mb of files in 23 seconds.  This is most likely a driver/hardware issue.  Try reinsatlling the drivers and if you still see the problem, post the link for the drivers you used and I will try to replicate.

Buckaroo,

This is roughly working here  but not in release yet. Should be relatively soon.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

Okay Steve,

Done some more testing after re-installing Creative Nomad 3 drivers (same version that I already had.

Did some tests...transfer from MC to Nomad - very speedy, transfer FROM Nomad to PC, dreadfully slow...

In your test you SENT stuff to the Nomad from MC, right? I agree, that's nice and fast. Try going the other way...

cheers
Rob

[Robert Taylor]

Steve,

Anything happening here?

[SteveG]

Lunch,

Can you give me a baseline for this. Please transfer 50MB of files from Nomad to PC with MC and then with another application and post the difference for you.

Thanks,

Steve

[SteveG]

No need to replicate this. I can duplicate it and will try to come up with a fix.

Steve

[SteveG]

Lunch,

This is fixed in the next build of MC and in the next plugin for Nomad.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks Steve,

Sorry, I have been flat stick at work and haven't had a chance to do any testing.

I'm just downloading the latest build and will give it a whirl, and post my findings when done...

cheers
Rob

[Robert Taylor]

Steve,

Transfers in both directions are now nice and fast (at least as fast as the Creative Explorer).

I'm using MC 11.0.234, with Nomad plugin 11.0.18.

One quirk I've noticed, when I queue some files up and transfer them, the transfer completes (Action Window says 100% complete, but it shows remaing time of 0:03, or 0:01, and just sits there. I tried a couple of times, and it does the same thing each time. I end up having to click the Cancel button. If I minimise the Transfer action window, the title bar says (on this test anyway), "Handheld Progress 714%".

cheers
Rob

[SteveG]

Rob,

This is a known issue and is fixed in Monday's build.  When it is avaialble, please get it and the problem should go away.

Steve

[UnknownID]

Handheld Issue:
I had my Nomad Zen Xtra connected to MC.

While "Drives & Devices" > "Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra" node is selected, I unplugged my Zen and got an error message saying something like "make sure your devices is connected and turned on". I clicked OK then MC quits.

Media Center: v11.0.248
Jukebox Plugin: v11.0.21

UnknownID

[SteveG]

Are you able to replicate this consistently? Were you uploading to the Zen when you disconnected? If you see it again, can you try to post the exact error?

Thanks,

Steve

[UnknownID]

Steve,

This happens every time. My exact steps are as follows:

1. Open MC
2. Connect my Zen to the computer.
3. See the Zen node in MC.

4a. Select any node that is NOT the Zen Node or Zen Sub-Node.
5a. Unplug the Zen; everything is fine

4b. SELECT the Zen Node or any Zen Sub-Node.
5b. Unplug the Zen. The node disappears and I get the following dialogue:

       Title: "Information"
       Message: "Please make sure the player is connected and on."

I click OK on the dialogue (it is the only button shown) and MC promptly exits.

I looked in the Windows Event Viewer to see if there might have been something else going on here, but no luck. Also, I am not uploading when I get this error.

Let me know if there is anything else I can do
UnknownID

[SteveG]

Unknown,

I cannot replicate this. Can you confirm that you have Plugin 11.0.21 (in Tools->Plugin Manager)?  Also, do you have the latest firmware and drivers from Creative?

Steve

[UnknownID]

Well that's no good (for me)

Media Center v11.0.248 RC2 (Latest) - Confirmed
Nomad Jukebox Plugin v11.0.21 (Latest) - Confirmed
Creative Nomad Explorer v3.01.10 (Latest) - Confirmed
Jukebox Driver v1.26.02 (Latest) - Confirmed
Firmware v1.20.08 (Latest) - Confirmed

I have a thought, but I need some help. A long time ago I was having some driver conflicts on my Windows2000 machine. I had found a place that had all installed drivers by name (not Device Manager). It included devices that were not always connected. I disabled or removed (don't remember which) some old ones for external devices that I hadn't used in a while and everything worked again (this is a simplified explanation). The problem is that I am on a whole new system with WindowsXP and I don't remember and can't find that place again. Do you know what I am talking about?

If you don't know, I can always do the old method of uninstall all programs/devices involved and reinstall, but I only want to do this as a last resort.

UnknownID

[SteveG]

UnknownID,

Sit tight for now. I think I can replicate this and am after a fix. Will post more as I know it.

Thanks,

Steve

[UnknownID]

Please let me know if there is anything I do to help (Test the next version of the plugin, provide more info, etc.)

Good Luck!

UnknownID

[UnknownID]

I just downloaded the latest RC (v11.0.249).

The problem seems to be gone. I say "seems" because it happened once, then I couldn't replicate it again. I checked all the main nodes: Zen, Albums, Artist, Genre, Playlists, as well as selecting a specific album, artist, genre, and playlist.

I have a fresh Debug Log from the install (I clean it after I install a new build). Since Handheld logging has been added you might find the fluke. Let me know.

Thanks for your help !

UnknownID

[UnknownID]

I just got his error when connecting my Zen:

This time it was a Windows Application Error and not MC. Also, it was on the connection not the removal, so it is probably unrelated to the previous error.

Faulting application media center.exe, version 11.0.249.0, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x04a7f210.

Obviously with the Application Error MC quit. I had been doing a number of things, so I cannot pinpoint what went wrong nor what node I was on. I will post more if I can remember what happened.

It may just be a one time thing since it seems to be working again.

UnknownID

[UnknownID]

I tried to copy APE files to my Zen, but I got the infamous "File type not supported" error with a list of APE files.

...and yes, I have my conversion settings set to "always convert". I also tried the "convert if necessary" option and I got the same error. In both instances I was only transferring APE files.

Something got broke

Nomad Jukebox Plugin v11.0.21 (Latest) - Confirmed
Creative Nomad Explorer v3.01.10 (Latest) - Confirmed
Jukebox Driver v1.26.02 (Latest) - Confirmed
Firmware v1.20.08 (Latest) - Confirmed

These are the same, but I am using the latest MC: v11.0.249 RC3
I just got v11.0.250 RC4 and have the same results

UnknownID

[SteveG]

UnknownID,

What filetype are you setting to convert to?

I cannot duplicate with 249 or 250.

Steve

[UnknownID]

WMA VBR Normal/High (and MP3 Extreme)

UnknownID



Addendum
Sorry, I should have included this too:

The exact error I get with the above mentioned file type as well as MP3 Extreme is a dialogue box titled "Confirm Action".

The following files cannot be transferred. Remove them and continue the transfer?

Then it lists the file titles with a "- File not supported" after each title.

[UnknownID]

I figured this one out!

I thought it was VERY strange that in the drop down menu for converting files when transferring to my Zen were limited to mp3 or wma.

I decided, on a whim, to try a "reset detected devices". After doing this AND removing the plugin (though this probably has nothing to do with the solution since the same version plugin was installed), MC re-detected the device and re-setup the profile and now ALL formats are showing in the dropdown and I can transfer the files

UnknownID

[SteveG]

Thanks for the update. 

PS I think I fixed the disconnect crash you reported. It will be in tonight's build.

Steve

[UnknownID]

Now for a different topic entirely...

How can I export a playlist to my Zen if the files already exist on the handheld? I do not use the synchronize feature. I have tried to drag-and-drop as well as “send to”, but since the entire queue gets removed the playlist goes away as well.

UnknownID

[SteveG]

Use the synchronization feature. If you have 'Delete unselected files' unchecked, then synching a playlist in which the files are already on the Nomad will cause the playlist to be created on the Nomad without retransferring the files. Alternately, right click on the Nomad files from within MC and you should be able to create a playlist and populate it.

Steve

[UnknownID]

If I use the synchronization feature as you say, will that transfer the files I have chosen not to put on the handheld as well as the playlists I do want transferred?

Additionally, I do not necessarily want all of my playlists on the handheld (especially since some of my playlists contain files that I do not want on the handheld). If MC transfers all the playlists won’t it transfer all the files as well?

Hmmm… this is difficult.

I could remake my playlists (which I will probably resort to since there are too many variables for the synchronize feature to work for me), but that means the task must be done twice (what if my playlists contain 100+ files; they don't, but they could)

Don't worry, I am neither asking for nor hoping for this to be changed for the release of 11. I just want this to be considered for later since MC doesn't seem to have a simple solution to a simple task. This should be intuitive; drag-and-drop a playlist onto the handheld (or use the “sent to” feature) to add the playlist and, only if necessary, the files will transfer along with its corresponding playlist.

UnknownID

[SteveG]

I think you are complicating this.

Drag and drop any playlist into the Action Window and the tracks in the playlist will transfer and the playlist will be created on the device. Any tracks that are already on the device will not  be transferred, but will be included in the playlist on the device.

If I use the synchronization feature as you say, will that transfer the files I have chosen not to put on the handheld as well as the playlists I do want transferred?

MC's sync will only transfer files that are selected to transfer.  I am suggesting that you create playlists for the files you want on the device and use sync to put those on the device. Whenever you sync, MC will not resend files that are already on the device.

This should be intuitive; drag-and-drop a playlist onto the handheld (or use the “sent to” feature) to add the playlist and, only if necessary, the files will transfer along with its corresponding playlist.

How is this different from how it works now?

Steve

[UnknownID]

I think you are complicating this.

Sorry, I'm not trying too.

MC's sync will only transfer files that are selected to transfer.  I am suggesting that you create playlists for the files you want on the device and use sync to put those on the device. Whenever you sync, MC will not resend files that are already on the device.

Ok. But in my scenario I already have the files on the handheld; I just want my playlists that use those files.

Here is a dumb question: If all the files on my handheld are WMA and all the same files in MC are APE, will MC try to download all the WMA files to my computer when I synchronize?

----------------------
Addendum:
I just tried a sync, the aforementioned doesn't happen. Now I think I understand what you were talking about and it will work for me.

When I see the word “synchronization” I think that somebody had two sets of data. Some information gets changed on one of the sets, then the two sets are merged together so what was in one set is now in the other, therefore they are identical. After trying this, I think the word “Synchronize” is not accurate for what happens. My understanding of that word was causing hesitation.

Anyway, I think the next part should still be part of how MC works
----------------------

How is this different from how it works now?

Neither one of these uses the Sync feature; they are for doing a quick (one step), manual transfer of maybe one or two playlists.

Scenario 01 (Works Now):
Start: Handheld does not have the files.

Actions: D+D playlist to handheld. Transfer.

Result: MC sends the playlist and the files to the handheld.

Scenario 02 (Does Not Work Now):
Start: Handheld has the files.

Actions: D+D playlist to handheld. Transfer.

Result: MC shows a message saying that the files already exist and eliminates them from the queue. Neither the files (obviously) nor the playlist gets transferred.

I am trying to do Scenario 02. I have already transferred all the files I want to my handheld. Now I want to move the playlists that correspond to the files, which is Scenario 02. The playlist itself SHOULD be transferred even if the files are not because they already exist on the handheld.

UnknownID

[SteveG]

UnknownID,

Thanks for working through this.

When I see the word “synchronization” I think that somebody had two sets of data. Some information gets changed on one of the sets, then the two sets are merged together so what was in one set is now in the other, therefore they are identical.

During a MC to portable synchronization, the data movement is almost exclusively PC to Device because generally we do not want the device removing anything or changing anything from the library. We do allow last played, play count and rating information to move back to the library for devices that support communicating that data back to MC.

In regards to scenario 2, you are correct, this does not work now. We do provide a way to create playlists for existing files on Zen devices by right clicking on the files to add to the playlist and selecting ('Add to playlist').

Steve

[UnknownID]

I just posted this on the v11.0.258 build of MC. I thought I would put it here too.

I had the v11.0.21 plugin. I deleted the plugin and reconnected my device to get the v11.0.22, but now I have v11.0.18. Upgrading backwards Huh

UnknownID

[SteveG]

This is fixed. I posted in the other thread but thought I would update this as well. If you have an old version of the plugin, delete the plugin and MC will automatically install the correct one.

Steve

[UnknownID]

Happy birthday fellow Nomad user LunchmeatVoom!

UnknownID

[SteveG]

Lunch,

Best wishes for another trip around the sun.

Steve

[Surfer_Fox]

I have MC 11.0.285 and a Zen Xtra handheld. I've lost some tracks from my PC (running XP) and I'm trying to transfer them from the handheld. I've set a path to the appropriate folder on my hard drive. I select Handheld device in the action window, and then the hard drive, and then drop files from the handheld onto the "synchronize/transfer" window. I click "transfer" and a window indicates the number of files and space remaining but, when I click "yes", I get an error message:

"The following files cannot be transferred. Common errors include insufficient rights or unsupported filetype. Remove files and continue transfer?" Each file is then listed, followed by "File missing".

The files aren't missing - i can play them on the handheld. They are mp3 files and have no rights management. Any ideas?

Thnaks
SurferFox

[UnknownID]

I have MC 11.0.285 and a Zen Xtra handheld. I've lost some tracks from my PC (running XP) and I'm trying to transfer them from the handheld. I've set a path to the appropriate folder on my hard drive. I select Handheld device in the action window, and then the hard drive, and then drop files from the handheld onto the "synchronize/transfer" window. I click "transfer" and a window indicates the number of files and space remaining but, when I click "yes", I get an error message:

"The following files cannot be transferred. Common errors include insufficient rights or unsupported filetype. Remove files and continue transfer?" Each file is then listed, followed by "File missing".

The files aren't missing - i can play them on the handheld. They are mp3 files and have no rights management. Any ideas?

Thnaks
SurferFox

During a MC to portable synchronization, the data movement is almost exclusively PC to Device because generally we do not want the device removing anything or changing anything from the library. We do allow last played, play count and rating information to move back to the library for devices that support communicating that data back to MC.

SteveG, see what I mean? You use the word "syncronize" and users think data can go both directions even though the data transfer is one directional.

UnknownID

[UnknownID]

I have MC 11.0.285 and a Zen Xtra handheld. I've lost some tracks from my PC (running XP) and I'm trying to transfer them from the handheld. I've set a path to the appropriate folder on my hard drive. I select Handheld device in the action window, and then the hard drive, and then drop files from the handheld onto the "synchronize/transfer" window. I click "transfer" and a window indicates the number of files and space remaining but, when I click "yes", I get an error message:

"The following files cannot be transferred. Common errors include insufficient rights or unsupported filetype. Remove files and continue transfer?" Each file is then listed, followed by "File missing".

The files aren't missing - i can play them on the handheld. They are mp3 files and have no rights management. Any ideas?

Thnaks
SurferFox

SurferFox,
The best way to accomplish this is to connect your handheld and view the files on it in MC. Right-click on the files you want that are on your handheld and select "Download to PC".

UnknownID

[Surfer_Fox]

Thanks for that. But I tried, and nothing happens (an egg timer cursor for a couple of seconds, and then nada). I've searched the PC for the files, and they definitely havent been transferred.

But from the first response it seems I may be trying to do something that isn't possible? I'm sure this worked in earlier versions though. Any other ideas?

Thanks

[IanG]

FWIW, I tried MC with a Zen Micro a couple of weeks ago and couldn't transfer files to the PC. 

Ian G.

[Surfer_Fox]

Hi Ian,

Did you ever manage a transfer with earlier versions of MC? I thought I had, which gives me hope....

I had 16,000 tracks on a hard drive that crashed. 95% of them were on the Zen, so it would be kind of helpful if I could transfer them....

[SteveG]

Surfer_Fox,

MC is Micro compatible with the latest MTP firmware installed from Creative. It is also compatible with the older firmware.

Steve

[IanG]

Hi Ian,

Did you ever manage a transfer with earlier versions of MC? I thought I had, which gives me hope....

I had 16,000 tracks on a hard drive that crashed. 95% of them were on the Zen, so it would be kind of helpful if I could transfer them....

Sorry, I was just playing with one at work - it's the one and only time I've tried.  On the other hand I'm fairly sure I was able to copy Zen to PC using the Creative app.

Ian G.

[Surfer_Fox]

Yeah - i've just managed that and it's very straightforward using the Creative app. But then everything has to be re-imported into the MC library, which is a big pain.

Cheers anyway Ian