Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[sapnho]

I read most of Master Mastiff's comments on multizoning with several sound cards. However, there must be a way to multizone through ethernet and I think it must be a server application which provides that functionality. Basically what I would love to see is an audio server in the house which has an option to stream to 2-3 clients the same audio and which can also coordinate the timing of these clients. Is this possible at all? Any developments of library server under way?

[Alex B]

The biggest problem is the LAN itself and how the network works. All data is sent in small packets and from time to time the packets are re-send. Various stages have build-in buffers too. Traditionally it has not been possible to synchronize audio or video streams on LAN. Also, different soundcards and PC configurations have different latencies, but I think that is a smaller problem and can be adjusted better.

I have searched for a solution and recently I have stumbled on two new technologies:

Cobranet  http://www.peakaudio.com/Index.htm and
Ethersound  http://www.ethersound.com/

These seem to be professionally oriented and obviously expensive products, but perhaps JRiver could investigate them and hopefully make a deal with a vendor. I think many users would pay a significant price for having the ability to stream synchronized audio (and possibly video) through LAN. It would replace expensive and complicated traditional cabling.

It would expand MC's usability also in many kinds of commercial environments, for example in retail stores, restaurants or exhibition and conference spaces. I think it would have great commercial potential.

[Myron]

I read most of Master Mastiff's comments on multizoning with several sound cards. However, there must be a way to multizone through ethernet and I think it must be a server application which provides that functionality. Basically what I would love to see is an audio server in the house which has an option to stream to 2-3 clients the same audio and which can also coordinate the timing of these clients. Is this possible at all? Any developments of library server under way?

I think most of what you're looking for can be accomplished with UPnP media players.  One limitation is that you won't be able to control timing synchronization between the players.  Is this really a problem?  I suppose if the zones are close enough where multiple zones are audible from one loacation this would not be a good solution.

What I'm not sure about is how many players can be "connected" to the server at one time.  Anyone out there know more about this?

[Alex B]

UPnP server cannot send any files from the server side. Each client connects and asks for the audio files individually. This thread was about having a whole-house synchronized playback, which is controlled by single Media Center.

Personally I would like to play the same music with three separate PC audio systems for example when having parties or I when like to listen to the same background music all around the house.

If the rooms are not acoustically isolated the playback must be synchronized.

[Myron]

UPnP server cannot send any files from the server side. Each client connects and asks for the audio files individually. This thread was about having a whole-house synchronized playback, which is controlled by single Media Center.

Personally I would like to play the same music with three separate PC audio systems for example when having parties or I when like to listen to the same background music all around the house.

If the rooms are not acoustically isolated the playback must be synchronized.

I understood the point of the thread ank know how UPnP servers and players work - just talking about some alternatives.  (I have this set up and running already)

I also said "if the zones are close enough where multiple zones are audible from one loacation this would not be a good solution."  Maybe you missed this.

[Alex B]

I am sorry to say, but UPnP is not a solution at all for sapnho or me, because it can't be used for sending single audio source to several separate devices. It’s good for other things. Actually, I have explained an asynchronous SW solution earlier. It uses the Shoutcast server: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24691.0.

[Zoner]

People (me included) have been talking about ways to do this digitally "real soon now" for over 5 years.  Last year I bit the bullet and went the old-fahioned analog route by buying a Russound CAV6.6.  It integrates with MC11 perfectly, and I couldn't be happier with it.

[vroc]

Zoner,
Can you let me know how you integrated MC11 with the Russ CAV6.6?  I'm thinking seriously about going this route.

[JimH]

Check the FAQ here for a link to software by a user named hyslopc or similar.

[Bill Kearney]

Syncing simultaneous output devices is not a trivial task.  Network latency can introduce just enough delays to make it noticeable when in the range of two overlapping zones.  Users *regularly* complain about this for devices like Tivo and other DVRs when watching TV from one versus having broadcast TV or a non-DVR tuner.  The delay is minimal but it's enough that everyone complains.  There's nothing that can be done to solve it, at least not in the current quantum physics rules the universe operates within.  That and customer complaints or inquiries cost money; both in support costs and negative PR.

Then there's also the issue of pumping out simultaneously to different devices.  If they're all listening to the same source in some sort of shared 'stream' mode then each one's stuck without being able to stop/start the playback.  Again, customers complain even though this isn't the 'fault' of the software or devices.

I suppose it might be possible to push the audio output to a streamed channel via multicast but I'm not sure how many devices or clients exist that would support this easily, let alone reliably.

In short, it's cheaper and easier to just run speaker wire.  Cheaper in parts as in-room speakers and volume controls are a helluva lot less expensive than PCs or media extender style devices.  Cheaper in support costs too.

We're in the process of installing a CAV6.6 and A-bus system.  Control will be either from the keypad and IR remotes into Girder or from a trio of touchpads running NetRemote, strategically placed around the house as well as the console running MC11 itself.   MC11 will push 4 of the zones into the CAV (out of 6) from USB audio devices and the other two come from a DirecTivo and the home theatre stack of devices (tapes, vcrs, dvd, cd changer).

Wall keypads for volume control are no-brainers to operate, for us or our guests.  Doing track selection via a wall panel pretty much sucks no matter whose small form-factor panel you try to use.  That and putting in the sort of 1024x768 touchscreens needed for MC11 is hideously expensive.  At that point one might as well just go with a Crestron system.

[outsider]

Bill, regarding your last message, you mentioned the imposibility of using a touch screen to do track selection.
Well other then a Crestron, are there ANY alternatives to MC to do track selections on a wall panel at lower (reasonably priced) resolutions?
I'd like to know the opinions of others that might havel already dealt with track selection from large libraries from a wall panel.

[twentworth22]

Syncing simultaneous output devices is not a trivial task. 

This is why I find Sonos so amazing.  Their proprietary SonosNet protocol is somehow able to perfectly sync multiple output devices, even over wireless.

Sonos has UPNP support for Rhapsody.  I'm really hoping they start supporting ordinary UPNP servers, allowing Sonos to sync MC content across my house.