Topic: [Bug] iPod playlists cleared by duplicates (Read 8767 times)

BlueGlow · « **on:** March 31, 2005, 12:20:20 pm »

Original thread

Bug
All playlists on an iPod are cleared when files with duplicate artist/album/song names are sync'd to an iPod.
Steps to duplicate
* Initialize iPod with MC.
* Create a playlist with one or two non-duplicate files.
* Create a playlist with several duplicate files.
- artist/album/name exactly the same
* Sync iPod with only those two playlists.
- First sync should transfer both playlists to the iPod with no problems.
* Add a song to the non-duplicate smartlist.
* Sync again.
- If you have the right combination of duplicates then the playlists on your iPod will be cleared though the songs will still be available using the browse options.

Suggested Fix
When a track is a duplicate, add (#) to the song name sent to the iPod . ie. Yesterday, Yesterday (1), Yesterday (2)...

Workaround
Create new smartlist to view duplicates and then rename them or remove them from iPod sync.
[media type]=[audio] ~dup=[artist],[name],[album] ~sort=[artist],[name]

Notes
* Filename length may affect results. 30-50 character long filenames used in my tests.
* Number of duplicates may affect results. It may take 3 or more songs with the same artist/album/name to clear playlists.

tlongacre · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2005, 12:33:23 pm »

You know, I don't think I have any duplicates, although I'll try your smartlist and see what comes up.

But there is another thread about the problem with files that are longer than 31 characters (this is a NEWLY added limitation). It makes me wonder whether this problem is related to long filenames. . .

BlueGlow · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2005, 12:50:41 pm »

Yes, that's possible, too. The duplicates I used to recreate the problem have long filenames.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2005, 04:13:57 pm »

However, since I started removing/renaming duplicates my playlists have sync'd correctly every time and I still have the long filenames being sync'd to my older 3G iPod.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2005, 11:13:18 am »

Hi Steve,
Was this enough information to locate the problem? Do you think the playlists clearing is caused by the combination of duplicates + long file names?

Thanks.

SteveG · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2005, 12:41:51 pm »

I don't know yet. I will solve the long filename issue soon and hopefully this will go away.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2005, 03:17:12 am »

Thanks, Steve, let me know if I can help with the tests.

SteveG · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2005, 11:40:29 am »

BG,

I followed the steps for your test but could not duplicate the problem. I would recommend clearing up the duplicates if you can.

Steve

PS Can anyone else replicate this??

BlueGlow · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2005, 12:11:33 pm »

Hi Steve,
The files I used were pretty large. I'll try to isolate the case with some small files and send you a nice little package.

Thanks.

SteveG · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2005, 01:39:27 pm »

BlueGlow,

Hold up until tonight's build. I added changes to accommodate long filenames and this may help to make your issue go away.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #10 on:** April 06, 2005, 01:00:14 am »

Hi Steve,
Got 232, tested it, same problem. Also long filenames are still being transferred to the iPod. That could be a red herring, however. I re-ran my test case with very short filenames and still had the problem. I've sent you instructions, an MC db and 3 small mp3 files to duplicate my test case. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help you with this problem.

Thanks.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2005, 01:08:25 pm »

Hi Steve,
Have you had any luck reproducing this or adding a workaround?

Thanks.

SteveG · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2005, 01:20:53 pm »

I have been unable to reproduce this here.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2005, 01:51:50 am »

I'm surprised this didn't duplicate for you, but perhaps it has to do with the firmware version. Every other operation on the iPod and MC is working as expected so it doesn't seem to be related to my setup.

I tested again with .232 and .234 and got the same results with my 3G iPod. Sync with no dupes, playlists transfer fine. Sync with the dupes I sent and playlists are cleared on the iPod.

If I rename the dupes to name, name (1), name (2), then the playlists transfer just fine to the iPod.

MC is already determining the duplicates for the warning message. If it's possible, could you please rename them on the way to the iPod? That would fix the problem I'm experiencing.

Thanks.

SteveG · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2005, 08:06:33 pm »

BlueGlow,

Quote

If it's possible, could you please rename them on the way to the iPod? That would fix the problem I'm experiencing.

Its not just a matter of renaming them. The idea of a duplicate is predicated on the matching of the Name, Artist, Album, Genre, and Track Number tag info. If I rename a tag on the way to iPod, then the file is essentially a different file and has no corresponding identiy in MC. Better for now for you to resolve it on the MC side if you can.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2005, 08:35:20 am »

Hi Steve,
I understand, I'll do the manual workaround if necessary. One more thought, could you skip duplicates?

Thanks.

SteveG · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2005, 02:44:38 pm »

That fetaure should be readded.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2005, 03:26:22 pm »

Thanks, Steve.

SteveG · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2005, 04:34:22 pm »

FYI, it is not currently readded, but should be in the near future. Sorry if I mislead you.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2005, 06:40:17 pm »

No misunderstanding. I knew that would take a bit of time. Thanks for the clarification.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2005, 06:18:47 pm »

Quote from: SteveG on April 14, 2005, 04:34:22 pm

FYI, it is not currently readded, but should be in the near future. Sorry if I mislead you.

Steve

Hi Steve,
Is the duplicates skipping feature in build .246?

Thanks.

SteveG · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2005, 01:13:37 pm »

It is. Please try it out and post anything that is not as it should be.

Thanks,

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #22 on:** April 23, 2005, 12:37:22 am »

Thanks, Steve, I'll give it a try.

gpvillamil · « **Reply #23 on:** April 25, 2005, 05:38:24 pm »

With build .247, I had exactly the same problem described at the beginning of this thread, playlists failed to transfer.

SteveG · « **Reply #24 on:** April 26, 2005, 09:49:27 am »

Gian,

Please give more detail or test further. Are you synching or drag and dropping the playlist(s)? Are all the files present but none of the playlists or some of the playlists?

Thanks,

Steve

gpvillamil · « **Reply #25 on:** April 26, 2005, 06:02:48 pm »

I am synching.

The files are transferred (ie free space remaining is shown as 358MB) but only about 10% of them appear in the browse menu.

No playlists appear in the playlist menu.

Update - I restored the iPod to firmware 1.5, and did a full sync, this seems to have come across with zero problems.

SteveG · « **Reply #26 on:** April 27, 2005, 09:53:09 am »

Gian,

What firmware was on when you were having the problems?

Steve

gpvillamil · « **Reply #27 on:** April 27, 2005, 03:44:42 pm »

I had firmware 1.5 when I was having the problem.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2005, 12:40:35 am »

Quote from: BlueGlow

Hi Steve,
Is the duplicates skipping feature in build .246?
Thanks.

Quote from: SteveG

It is. Please try it out and post anything that is not as it should be.
Thanks,
Steve

Hi Steve,
I just tested the dupes test case with .250 and playlists were cleared again.

Behavior: Dock iPod, click handheld, click sync, click transfer, dupes warning dialog displayed, click to continue, sync completes, eject iPod, check playlists, playlists gone.

SteveG · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2005, 05:06:45 pm »

BG,

Tomorrow's build will not wipe away playlists on the iPod. The next step is to enforce that duplicates are resolved prior to allowing the transfer.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2005, 06:36:52 pm »

Quote from: SteveG on April 28, 2005, 05:06:45 pm

... The next step is to enforce that duplicates are resolved prior to allowing the transfer.

Hi Steve,
What kind of enforcement does that mean?

Thanks,
bg

SteveG · « **Reply #31 on:** April 29, 2005, 08:59:18 am »

bg,

Disallowing the transfer of files that are 'duplicates' since it is outside of the design of the synchronization. In other words, for files to transfer they would have to have a unique key based on Name, Artist, Album, Genre and Track Number.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #32 on:** April 29, 2005, 11:59:54 pm »

Hi Steve,
Will duplicates be skipped or will there be a warning dialog? I would prefer that they were skipped or the warning could be disabled.

Thanks,
bg

SteveG · « **Reply #33 on:** May 02, 2005, 07:51:27 am »

bg,

They would be skipped.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #34 on:** May 02, 2005, 01:44:27 pm »

Thanks, Steve.
Please announce when that behavior is added and I'll give it a test.

SteveG · « **Reply #35 on:** May 03, 2005, 09:34:28 am »

BG,

With the current build are you still having the playlist deletion issue (after the duplicate warning)? You should not.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #36 on:** May 03, 2005, 11:21:44 am »

I'll give it a try later today.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #37 on:** May 04, 2005, 12:18:17 am »

Quote from: SteveG on May 03, 2005, 09:34:28 am

With the current build are you still having the playlist deletion issue (after the duplicate warning)? You should not.

Steve

Hi Steve,
I am not able to reproduce this bug in build .255. Thanks!

bg

BlueGlow · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2005, 11:52:55 am »

Hi Steve,
I spoke too soon. Playlists are cleared again.

Clues?
I don't think the first sync did it. It happened on the second or third sync.
Last night, I allowed it to transfer the three duplicates from the test cast. Playlists were not cleared after the sync. I didn't do a good check to see if all of the duplicate files were transferred but at least one of them was on the iPod.

This morning I did my normal MC import/remove dupes routine, then sync'd again.
I didn't check the playlists, did some work, noticed some new podcasts had arrived, did import/remove dupes, then sync'd. Went to use the iPod and playlists were gone.

The duplicates were deleted from my MC library and from my local HD before the synching this morning. Checking the music dir on the iPod I see that the two of the original dupe files from last night's test are still there.

Hope that helps track it down.

Thanks,
bg

BlueGlow · « **Reply #39 on:** May 06, 2005, 03:31:11 am »

Hi Steve,
Testing with .258.
Dock, starts auto-sync, warns about duplicates, click yes to continue, action window shows "handheld" button, waited for a minute or two, clicked handheld button, sync continued and completed. Only one of the three duplicate files transferred to the iPod. Playlists on iPod showed two entries with that artist/album/name, they both played.

Docked again without restarting MC, no auto-sync, started sync manually, no duplicates warning, sync completed, playlists cleared again.

Symptoms when playlists cleared were slightly different. Previously, there would be two entries in the iPod playlists after clearing, one blank and one "on the go". This time only "on the go" was there.

Also, still getting file missing dialog when files are missing on auto-sync.

BTW, I thought that auto-sync was supposed to flow something like--
* Dock iPod
* Sync starts automatically
* Sync deletes files on the iPod (optional)
* Transfer all possible files without dialog interruption
* Eject iPod automatically when transfer completed

Is this correct? Currently, the sync starts automatically only the first dock per MC startup and the iPod is never ejected automatically.

Thanks,
bg

SteveG · « **Reply #40 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:31:32 pm »

bg,

These are addressed in tonight's build. In regards to Auto-sync, the iPod is not currently auto ejected at the end.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #41 on:** May 11, 2005, 12:33:54 am »

Thanks, Steve, I've been out of town. I'll give .263 a try tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #42 on:** May 12, 2005, 02:36:08 am »

Testing .264 with original test case.
Handheld options set to auto-sync with checked playlists.

Looks like the "duplicates clearing playlists" bug is fixed. I did 6 syncs and was not able to repeat the problem.

I did not see the standard action window progress dialog during the sync, bug?

Also, earlier in this thread you mentioned that skipping duplicates should be re-added. Is that still coming? It would be a big help for my normal usage.

Thanks,
bg

-------------------------
Behavior
11.0.264, 3G 30GB iPod, syncing with auto-sync selected playlists option.

Docked, sync started, analyze, delete, warning dialog about duplicates, click yes, warning dialog closes, sync continues but the progress action window is not displayed, after sync completes, the "Synchronize/Drop Files Here" action window is displayed.

Only one copy of the duplicates transferred to the iPod.
It's listed three times on the playlist that had all three files. All three entries point to the same file. It's listed only in the artists branch.

Same behavior for several syncs. Sync good, playlists ok, but no progress displayed.

SteveG · « **Reply #43 on:** May 12, 2005, 03:27:14 pm »

bg,

Can you explain why you do not want to resolve the 'duplicate' tagging in MC? I ask because I want to see how common this issue might be and whether it needs to be addressed more effectively.

Thanks for any feedback you can give on this.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #44 on:** May 12, 2005, 04:31:19 pm »

Hi Steve,
Sure, I'll be happy to explain.
There are several ways that duplicates get introduced into my library. Some are different versions of the same album, most are automatically downloaded podcasts. I get 5-10 duplicates a day from podcasts.

My normal portable usage goes something like this...
* Check email and dock my iPod
* MC starts iPod auto-sync
* (Several seconds pass before any warnings will be displayed)
* I immediately switch to another process or leave the room and do other tasks
* Eject iPod using system tray or by closing MC
* Grab iPod and head off to drive to a meeting, go for a run, etc.

Anything that could interrupt the sync, like a duplicates warning, means I can't just dock and forget it. Or that I do just dock and forget it, and then eject it without seeing the modal warning dialog that stopped the sync.

I don't want to have to monitor the sync, I would like it to work as much like the PocketPC sync as possible. With the PocketPC, you dock, the sync starts automatically, and you can remove it at any time. If there is an error in the process, the status icon for the sync indicates it and you open it to review and resolve any problems. I don't know of any way to get a bad sync by removing at the wrong time.

I know the iPod has a less sophisticated synching architecture than the PocketPC, but I would very much like the auto-sync to work like this:

- Dock iPod
- MC analyzes, deletes files, then transfers all possible files
- MC ignores incompatible files and duplicates, but logs them
- After auto-sync is completed, automatically eject iPod
- Display a warning icon/highlight if all selected files could not be transferred
- Display the transfer log if the warning icon is clicked
- Turn off warning icon after the log has been viewed.

Auto-eject could be confusing since some users may want to cancel the auto-sync and manage their iPod manually or use it as a HD. For this I would suggest a short countdown before the sync starts and a button to cancel the sync.

Action Window:
Auto-sync will start in 10 seconds (9,8,7...)
[Cancel] [Start]

If cancel is clicked then behave as if auto-sync was not invoked for this instance.

For a future version, it would be great to have a systray icon to show status.

Thanks,
bg

SteveG · « **Reply #45 on:** May 12, 2005, 05:59:04 pm »

bg,

Thanks for the feedback. I will look at this more tomorrow.

Steve

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Author Topic: [Bug] iPod playlists cleared by duplicates (Read 8767 times)