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[twentworth22]

Figured this way the best place to ask...

I want to wire my 1998 home for Ethernet and sound.  I want to run cables into probably 8 rooms.  Before I start calling installers I'd like a ballpark cost.  Any ideas?  Does Tweeter do a good job?

[KingSparta]

Any ideas?

Can You Say WireLess?

Normaly The Easyest Now Days With No Loss Of Speed (Unless Your Running A T1 Connection)

[jgreen]

King--
Are there wireless nets that will stream 1411 kbps WAVs?

[KingSparta]

Maybe

Microwave, but you may also have health problems after using it.

[JimH]

King--
Are there wireless nets that will stream 1411 kbps WAVs?

1411Kbps is 1.4 Megabit/second, right?  802.11g is 54 Megabits/second.  In general, the practical speed is around 1/3 to 1/2 of the nominal speed, so it should work with room to spare.

[KingSparta]

802.11g is 54 Megabits/second.

I think there is something else a tad faster than "G" now

And now days the stuff is cheep

[jgreen]

"Pre-N".  But has anyone out there acutally depended on wireless to stream 1411 kbps WAVs?  If somebody's got this running properly, that's going to be the way I go.

[Valisystem]

FWIW, I frequently find that cable & phone folks quote about $150 per line for small jobs. My experience with wireless in general has been more erratic than the rosy picture painted by the manufacturers. Speeds can vary by distance, the number of walls, and sometimes just to be ornery.

Wireless is fine technology, but if the cost is similar, then the chances of a troublefree connection are higher with wires than with wireless. Add up the cost of the various pieces of wireless equipment and it might be closer than you think. Of course, you can mix them, too - it's not all or nothing.

Good luck!

[datdude]

The problem in all of this is that none of these wireless recievers can be used directly with MC as if it were a sound card.  The interface is thorugh the device itself and not with MC, which is dissapointing.

[Bill Kearney]

That the sound player devices aren't "seen" by MC as a sound card isn't JRiver's fault.  The point of most sound players is to let them act as standalone from a controlling PC.  Thus their makers haven't written drivers to let them act that way.  If they got around to making a speaker-type driver for a PC to use them that way then MC would probably pick right up on it.  UPnP is making strides but it's still a bit short of the mark and Apple's Airtunes is off in proprietary la-la-land.

Don't forget, WiFi is a shared medium, a throwback to the days of hubs.  There's overhead on the signal to begin with, but add a bunch of different WiFi devices and you'll find bandwidth tanks pretty darn quick.  Wired via switched networking maintains much higher throughput rates.  TAANSTAAFL folks.

If you want truly simple "wireless" then hookup a USB FM transmitter to the MC server and then just use FM radios to listen to it.  I've got one for headphone use when mowing the lawn or just veggin' on the hammock without blasting the neighbors through the rock speakers.  A bonus is battery life on an FM walkman kicks ass against a WiFi PDA...

As for costs and suppliers, I'd much prefer using an experienced audio installer over the typical chain store personnel.    Running wire is technically pretty simple and for networking it's nearly brainless.  But WHERE you run the wire TO for best audio delivery is a whole other matter.  Someone that understands the dynamics of how built-in audio works in real-world situations often requires more experience than I've seen at chain stores.  Then there's also the matter of understanding how to properly follow building codes and not make a mess of your house, again not usually hallmarks of chain stores...

Start by looking for whose an authorized reseller for high-end audio gear in your area.  Work your way down from there, not up from a chain store.

[modelmaker]

But WHERE you run the wire TO for best audio delivery is a whole other matter.  Someone that understands the dynamics of how built-in audio works in real-world situations often requires more experience than I've seen at chain stores.  Then there's also the matter of understanding how to properly follow building codes and not make a mess of your house, again not usually hallmarks of chain stores...

Start by looking for whose an authorized reseller for high-end audio gear in your area.  Work your way down from there, not up from a chain store.

Amen.

[datdude]

That the sound player devices aren't "seen" by MC as a sound card isn't JRiver's fault.  The point of most sound players is to let them act as standalone from a controlling PC.  Thus their makers haven't written drivers to let them act that way.  If they got around to making a speaker-type driver for a PC to use them that way then MC would probably pick right up on it.  UPnP is making strides but it's still a bit short of the mark and Apple's Airtunes is off in proprietary la-la-land.

What is a speaker type driver?  When I press play in MC, it should stream the music to the reciever.  I don't mind if there is a slight buffer.  For laptop users this is a huge usabilty gap in MC.

[Bill Kearney]

Is it a "liability" if a Toyota Prius can't haul a ton of dirt around?  No, if that's what's needed it'd be foolish to buy something other than a heavy duty pickup or dump truck. 

Likewise, MC11 isn't targeted at the lightweight machine crowd.  Yes, you can make it run on one and a great many are more capable than most desktops.  But it's no "liability".

You can already use player devices to pull files from anything running MC11.   That you can't currently "push" files to the VERY few available play-only devices is hardly JRiver's fault.  In the case of the Airtunes unit Apple hasn't published HOW to do this, nor have the provided any sort of driver for the PC that would allow doing it without adding the bulk of running iTunes for it.   They're a pretty new concept and being negative about what MC11 can or can't do with them is rather misguided. 

Sure, you want it and I'm sure a great many other folks might also like to use it.  But given the incredible number of OTHER things that have been integrated into MC11 it's not unreasonable for it to take a while longer.  Especially since the vendors of the equipment aren't helping by writing actual drivers.  Don't blame your perceived limitations of your choice of machine on others.

[datdude]

I never said it was a 'liability' and I am not blaming anyone here so hold your horses. The issue is that a laptop has no wires and having to use a wire to use MC makes its 'usabliity' very difficult and defeates the great browsing features of MC.  I don't expect MC to work with Airtunes.  However there doesn't seem to be any discussion on whether or not MC will have an Airtunes like device.  I'm sure there are numerous laptop users who would pay good money to have this capability whom I don't think are misguided!

[KingSparta]

The Question Is To Wire (Or Not To Wire)

I personally would like to know the outcome of this thread, before we need to delete or lock it.

Thanks

[twentworth22]

The Question Is To Wire (Or Not To Wire)

I personally would like to know the outcome of this thread, before we need to delete or lock it.

Thanks

As would I :-)  I have wireless today but as it has been noted, the real world speeds are no where near wired ethernet.  I want to be prepared for the future and I assume at some point we'll need 100mpbs or even gigabit networking. 

My primary usecase for now is to be able to reliably stream video to my Xbox Media Center.  Right now I'm using wireless and it simply isn't fast enough to handle DVD VOBs.

[KingSparta]

With The New NetGear Pre-N, It Looks Like It Is A Tad Above The 100Mbps

http://www.netgear.com/products/details/WGM124.php#range

I Guess This Link Is There Latest

http://www.buynetgear.com/product.asp?sku=2620815

It would be nice to know in the real world what you can really do with this speed boost

Note The

It gives you the power that allows you to stream MP3s and videos seamlessly

Pre-N Speed
The Pre-N Wireless Router uses Airgo True MIMO™ technology to deliver up to 108 Mbps data rate when used with the Pre-N Wireless PC Card (WGM511). It gives you the power that allows you to stream MP3s and videos seamlessly, share printers, chat and distribute large photo files. Your whole family can surf the net, e-mail, and even voice chat at the same time - the Pre-N Wireless Router and PC Card can handle the traffic!

Pre-N Range
The Pre-N Wireless Router is so powerful that you can enjoy high speed applications all across your home. Don't be constrained by low wireless bandwidth anymore. With Pre-N, you don't need to sit in your office to enjoy your MP3s and video streams.

Always Simple and Secure
Smart Wizard gets you up and running in minutes by automatically detecting the ISP connection type and reducing setup errors. Use the Smart Wizard firmware upgrade feature to check for new features and upgrade your network in just a few clicks! The Pre-N Wireless Router is 802.11g standard compliant which ensures it is interoperable with existing 802.11b and 802.11g devices, and provides you up to 20% boost in performance to your existing devices.

[datdude]

With these kinds of speeds, I would like to see a high end HT reciever from say Denon or Marantz have an integrated media downloader.  You could download an MP3 in a fraction of a second and then have the high quality on board DAC process it.  If they had a PC card slot you could swap in a new antenna when technology changes.  Now there is no need for any kind of wires other than the power cord.

[Myron]

You could download an MP3 in a fraction of a second and then have the high quality on board DAC process it. 

Hmm,

High quality DACs for MP3s?  Why bother....

[datdude]

Hmm,

High quality DACs for MP3s?  Why bother....

It depends on the MP3. Alt preset standard makes a huge difference vs 128 kb and I can't hear the difference between my sony CD player and Revo 5.1 coax out soundcard.  I have a Marantz reciever with Energy C-5's so the clarity is there.  Anything above alt preset is splitting hair's.  Im sure there are a few passages of a few songs where it makes a difference.  If so then don't even bother with putting your music on a computer.

Now back to your regularly scheduled show!

[Bill Kearney]

Sustained, simultaneous traffic is always going to be slower over wireless than hard-wired.  It's not about speed, it's about capacity.

While WiFi might get faster, that speed is often only seen during burst activity.  The airwaves are a shared medium, there's no getting around that.  Sure, you can divvy it up across multiple channels but you're still going to have to use CSMA/CSCD techiques and that costs you when bulk traffic is involved.  A wired connection is still at the mercy of what might be a sole port to the server but the packets aren't susceptible to collision problems when switches are used.  The contention and overhead on wired is always going to be less than wireless.  Thus anytime I need to move a lot of bits around I avoid pretending wireless will ever be better. 

It's sort of like a highway.  It doesn't matter what the speed limit is if you have to share it with other traffic.  As long as there's nothing else 'on the road' then it's great.   But as soon as other traffic develops the performance drops quite rapidly.  A wireless network is like a road without any traffic controls; great when you're alone on it.  A wired network is like having precisely timed signals; consistent performance until quite a lot of traffic overloads it.  The latter works better long haul.

Sure, in some situations like an apartment or other temporary living wireless might be a necessary evil.  Trouble is, in those situations channel contention is even more likely to be a problem (nearer neighbors, same gadgets, etc).  But if you're talking owned residence then the money spent on hard-wiring more than makes up for itself in saving you the hassles and disappointments of wireless.

I'm not knocking the ability to use WiFi for stuff like surfing the web, reading mail and a few bits of media streaming now and then.  Anyone thinking you'll be able to setup everything using wireless output streaming devices (esp when video is involved) and not run into problems is in for a rude awakening.

[stefansmith]

Back on topic: networking.

I have a mix of wired and wireless.
I have a PC which acts as a central server. This I have wired ethernet to the PC next to my main hi-fi, serving all my music encoded as lossless (Ape).
For the rest of the house I have wireless. APE over wireless does not work too well and the other hi-fi's in the house are not good enough to tell the difference between lossless and lossy, so I have a separate hard drive in the server which has all the APE's transcoded as MP3's, which can be shared by wireless.
So I have two storage Hard drives in the server: one 250GB for lossless, and one 120 GB for MP3.

[milknkukis]

But you have no way of pushing the same music at the same time to the whole house, is that correct?
As far as i can make out there is no useable solution to this so there is no option but to run speaker wire throughout the house. (Other than buy two REALLY big speakers and declare war on your neighbours.....tempting!)
Personally, i think a wireless network is a good idea as it lets laptops be 'wireless'. I can't think of a situation where i have thought "drat, this wireless network is so slow, i'm going to run ethernet through the whole house." Besides, ethernet ports will be like power points, unless there are 4 per room, they are going to be in the wrong place or out of reach. Having said that, i can see why for some situations it might make sense, like a desktop sitting on the same desk it has sat on for years, but i would still try the wireless first, and only run cable if i found it unbearablely slow.
I know how nasty it was running speaker cable under my floors (to the bathroom and kitchen), so anything i can do to avoid doing it again would get my vote.
just a few thoughts....
mark

[Bill Kearney]

Wirelss for casual laptop use works great.  Wireless for delivery of multiple streams of audio/video data does not.  If it matters being able to have AV media available in mulitple locations simultaneously and potentially independent of each other then wired is really the only reliable option.

That and whole-house audio delivered via syncronized digital devices that *aren't* all feed off the same stream is nearly impossible to achieve reliably.  Even when wired.   Just getting the streams pushed out simultaneously is a challenge, keeping the packets in sync on the output devices is even more of a hassle.  Yeah, it'd be nice but it just doesn't work well enough to avoid delays.  Even mere milliseconds of a difference between delivery of the same source is noticeable.  If the rooms aren't anywhere close to each other then it usually doesn't matter.   

I can quite easily push the same source whole-house via our wired Russound CAV6.6.  It really ended up being the most cost-effective, least-hassle solution. 

[jgreen]

I would have to agree with this.  And adding two more cents to the torrent of pennies, I don't think that multiple outputs of the same pushed content constitutes a "zone", FWIW.  But to do what I think are "zones" seems to require a series of smart clients, and that still looks like 2k per room.  Lacking that, distributed preamps and a gang of soundcards would be another route to divorce just as quickly.  Having a few old preamps lying around, I tried this more or less, and concluded that I was better off with an ipod in each room, which I could synch every now and then.  Things got tougher with distributed video, until I realsed that dvds are portable.  Then everything seemed to fall into place, while I wait for the cost of client computers to drop below the financial radar sweep.

I know there have been topics re/selectable-channel-thingys, etc, and if I could find the link I would post it here, if it had anything to do with poor wentworth's original question.  As I recall he was wondering about the cost of wire-pullers, and how to find a good one.  I think most every one of us has something they'd rather do than that, so might I suggest you try the AVSForum?

[gbdesai]

That's not exactly true anymore.  I was going down the same path and spent thousands to wire my home for multi-zone audio and now use Sonos which can do wireless and each zone is just $495 or so, plus a few extras like speakers.  Has anyone else tried Sonos?  Damn easy to use for me and espeically the rest of the family and no linked zone sync problems, even over wireless, etc.  Just my $0.02.   In case you don't know what I am talking about www.sonos.com.
 

[Fex]

Sonos sounds good.
But what about all the videos directly streaming to my tv?

[jgreen]

There goes my budding career pulling wire.  Don't tell wentworth about this, I'm still trying to get $5/hr. 

This looks remarkably clean and easy; what's the catch?  Is it just the wire-pullers union that has kept us all in the dark about this? 

Having browsed the specs and their claim of multi/multi, does it really work that well?  Can you get a multi-room clatter going, or does it start to hiccup for lack of bandwidth?

I see two cynical possibilites here:  Maybe they are converting on the fly to lossy low-bitrate, or maybe they're using low-power unlicensed spectrum, with a shorter range and potential interference. 

Or, maybe it just works like they claim and we should all go out and buy it.

[gbdesai]

I was skeptical too being an electrical engineer by training.  But I have to say this product delivers.  I have 2 wired zones and 4 unwired zones including one outdoor zone.  Never a hiccup or skip.  Bandwidth is fine.  I must say this is the first technology that is truly plug and play.  I have actually programmed Crestron, AMX, HomeSeer, and have extensive wiring and electrical experience, and this is something my wife could install.  Product build is great too.  Only problem I have is that there is no digital output.

It uses 802.11b over their own protocol, they do not down convert anything (except when you use the line-in on a ZonePlayer where you have the option of sending it uncompressed or as a delayed compressed format; line-in allows you to play the line in from any ZonePlayer on any other zone player or on all of them if you want, e.g. XM radio in the living room is connected to the ZP there and appears as a source to play anywhere else).  The product is relatively new, so that's why you haven't really seen much about it.  Its been reviewed in many national pubs too check out the reviews.

BTW, their services is even better than the product.  You can get on the phone with someone instantly and I had one of the ZonePlayers lockup during a firmware update (which can all happen in automated fashion over the internet) and they overnighted a new unit to me, and I had 2 weeks to return the other unit at their cost for shipping .

I get nothing for endorsing them, but this is really changed the way I and my family listen to music.   There is a limit of 30,000 tracks (40K in beta right now), direct Rhapsody support, Internet Radio support, DOES NOT support DRM protected files (like Apple iTunes purchased music).   For an honest look, go read the forum at www.sonos.com and ask other users, don't just rely on me.

Gautam

P.S. Wiring your home is still not a bad idea, if you homerun the wires, you can wire a bunch of ZonePlayers at the homerun and get the same effect.  Your choice...

[gbdesai]

Maybe I misunderstood but Sonos is audio only.

[jgreen]

That was the sense that I got from wentworth's original question, that he was interested in laying track for audio, video, and probably data as well.  We've already streamrolled over poor wentworth and his original question, so I see no reason to turn back now.

The Sonos looks like a great solution for odd places in particular, bathrooms, backyards, etc.  I think the all-in-one aspect is both a plus and a minus, although mostly a giant "plus".  As I understand it, this is not just a network device, a streaming device and a pre-amp, it is an amp also.  Or is it mated with powered speakers?  In any case, you're losing a little bit of control over your audio path, although you're gaining a LOT of flexibility.  I was impressed by your weaving XM into the net.  Is there any way to control the stations remotely?

[milknkukis]

"so I see no reason to turn back now"

tee hee hee! i was thinking that much higher up, i'm glad someone finally said it!

cheers!

[gbdesai]

Sorry wentworth.  I will continue on Sonos, but will try to re-read and reply to your original query in a future post.

It does have a built-in AMP whether you like it or not, it can't be removed (something people wanted that would prefer to just use the line level audio out; but Sonos indicated removing the amp would only have brought unit price down $30-$50 but who knows).  Anyway my remote control of XM (Sirius is actually what I have, don't know why I said XM) is controlled by a touchhpanel interface I programmed based on Cinemar's MainLobby app with wireless touchscreens in the home, this is also tied to my HomeSeer home control system).  You could go a simpler way using RF to IR remote control technology, but then you wouldn't get channel display feedback and such, maybe just good for 10 presets or something like that.

Just so you know, the Sonos uses UPNP and people have started developing simple third-party apps to extend it.  There are even requests to add a little more flexibility to the interface to allow control of other things like lights, sat radio, etc. but this is very far in the future as it appears today.

The satellite radio is sent via uncompressed streaming WAV files, so I know bandwidth hasn't been an issue, in fact the ZonePlayer that it is connected to is wireless...

[gbdesai]

Ok. To the original wiring question.  I had them run structured cables which had 4 x Cat5e, 2 x RG6 Coax and also ran Cat6, and 2 x 4 wire 14 Gauge Speaker wire to every "zone" or room.  I had a custom AV installer do the job in my new construction.  Tweeter here does an ok job, but aren't that great at rewiring an existing home.  I'd check with a custom installer that does this day in, day out.

[Mr ChriZ]

Wiring Cat 5 is dead Easy.
I picked a box up 300m for £30 last sept.
Connectors 50p ago (might be able to get these cheaper)
NIC's £5 ago.
Router £50
Crimp Tool £7

I did try Wireless before hand but had a crap time with it.
Theres two groups of people with Wireless the ones that
it works for and those that it doesn't.  It could be the belkin
router I bought I don't know, but my house is one of those
old fashioned ones that has walls (big things made of stone).
Had poor signal on 2 computers, none on a 3rd, and excellent on the 5th.
Even when they were all on excellent 52g it reckoned it was going
to take 30 minutes to move a 10 mb file.
At which point i got a wee bit peaved and sent the whole lot back,
hence now cabled - 100mb 

[gbdesai]

Yeah for video I really thing 1000MBPS is needed in the long run.  I have all of my DVDs (not all, but over 300) ripped and stored on a RAID array in the basement that is connected via Gig Ethernet over Cat5e to my Family Room Media Center PC and other PCs via 100MBPS.  I see moving it all over to Gig ethernet eventually, don't want to have bandwidth limitations, it is most obvious when ripping a DVD directly to my RAID array, at 100MBPS it takes upwards of 40 minutes to rip the DVD (usually 4GB  to 7.5GB) over the network.  With 1000 MBPS, it does it as fast as the DVD drive can read it, usually about 6-12 minutes.  That is a big difference and wireless just can't cut that yet.

[Bill Kearney]

And even if/when wireless has the speed to support a *single* connection at that speed it'll still be faced with the problem of more than one device bogging it down.  For audio it hardly matters as the stream just isn't that large.  But taking into consideration that sending streams of content doesn't require sending the whole file all at once it may be possible to handle a couple of them.  I'd wait about another year before I looked at wireless devices again. 

[MAPgeekdad]

Hi the following is the result of my research from this and other posts (avsforum) regarding how to wire my new home during construction.  I would appreciate any feedback on your own experience and any alternative controller / home automation setup suggstions.

Sorry is this duplicates anything already posted.  Just want to see that what I have here is a correct interpretation.

Regards.

 
I think that I would likely go with the CAV6.6 w/ 6 S2 keypads, to start off with.  You can tell me or suggest other options based on the description of my configuration below.
 
I see the PR line with doorbell, telephone, paging, etc. also looks interesting.  Can the CAV6 expand to do this also?  Is the PR series only for Professional installation or can a PC and technical-savvy person (me) handle it as do-it-yourself?  I would also consider the Xantech stuff, but I'm not sure that I could support it myself and whether there is anyone locally that can do it for me.
 
Since I am building new, I will wire it up with as much as needed for future expansion.  I am planning something like the following.
 
(big thanks to zuke376 and mcascio for their avsforum thread)
ZONE - for each major zone:
*  2 - 14/2 speaker cable - back to CAV6
*  4 - CAT5e - 2 back to CAV6 (keypad and 1 extra), 2 back to CLOSET (for internet/phone, and 1 extra)
*  2 - RG6 - 1 cable TV and 1 video sources - both back to Closet
* 1 - CAT6 - for expansion
 
Sources will be DVD, HTPC (digital audio and video), tuner, CD
For future expansion, an HDTV matrix switcher, http://www.cinemaronline.com/hdtv_switches.html , for multiple video sources
 
CLOSET - server closet on lower-level:
* File server for HTPC over Ethernet, (HTPC connected as 2 source zones of the CAV6)
* Cable modem --> Router --> patch panel --> 6 CAT5e for internet and phone (this is 1 of the 2 for each room)
* Modem to enable keypads to display caller-ID (read about this but don't know how it works)
 
From CAV6 to Distribution Panel:
* 4 - RG6 - 1 from each video source near CAV6 to distribution panel
* 1 - CAT5e - for HDTV (component) thru baluns, i.e. component source --> balun --> CAT5e --> balun --> component display
* 2 - CAT5e - for possible control via a global cache (and future expansion)
* 1 - CAT6 - for future expansion
 
 
How does Russound handle sub-zones?  What is ABUS?  Any wiring requirements?
What are the requirements for closed-circuit TV to be able to have videocams around the house?
Does Russound CAV6 expand into home automation?  If not, how would I do this? (i.e. control lights, videocams, A/C, appliances, etc.)
What is the wiring between keypads and local speakers connections (as opposed to what goes to in-wall spkrs)?
 
I know I already have quite a bit of wiring and maybe more than needed.  But I only want to wire it once and have future expansion available and many options to change sources.  Currently I have no HDTV and my displays will need to be upgraded over time.  I'm not sure what I will encounter there since it haven't played around with it much yet.
 
I want to have at least whole-house audio and video and internet from the start.  I guess the home automation and other expansion can be phase 2, but I need to get any wiring requirements in now.
 
Any suggestions on initial junction boxes and other wall fixtures that might be needed.
 

[Bill Kearney]

The CAV can intergrate with doorbells.  There's a technote on Russound's site for it.  I'll be adding it to mine eventually.  If just for gadget's sake. 

If you can pull wires and fit wall plates you can install any of these.  The complexity lies in getting the keypads programmed effectively.  IR signals for handling the devices is something of a mind-bender.  But the Russound docs are really pretty informative.

Where are you talking about installing the CAV?  With the server in the closet?  Bear in mind that you need to feed line-level audio to the CAV.  The shorter you keep these cables the better.  I have mine all rack-mounted together (cav, touchscreen pc, dvd, tivo, home theatre amp, cd changer, etc).  But this does mean that playing DVDs requires going to the rack to pop in a disc (or rip it to the file server)

A-Bus slaves act as independently amplified outputs from their parent zone.  That is if you attach an
a-bus keypad out on the deck to a zone whose Uno keypad is in the sunroon (as I've done) you can have the volume out on the deck controlled independently from the sunroom.  The source will be the same but you can listen to them at different levels.  And since they're sharing the same source you'll obviously be changing one when you change the other.  Switch from source 1 to source 2 and both will follow.  Likewise if you hit next/prev on mp3 tracks they'll both follow.  For a situation like an outside deck this works pretty well.  I fed the line-out signal from the  deck keypad back into the house and to an amplifier before going back out again to the 2 rock and 2 planter speakers.  Speakers like this in an outside space require more amplification so that was to be expected.  I've also slaved the 3 other a-bus outputs into similarly shared setups.  I shared the zone for the guest/treadmill, living/dining and the bath/family room area.  We shared the living and dining rooms because it's a rather open space and doesn't need wall keypad control from both places but does need separate volume levels. 

The Russound stuff doesn't handle home automation.  Most systems that do both are considerably more expensive (ie crestron).  Control4 may eventually emerge to offer solutions here but has yet to priove itself in the market.  Meanwhile I control mine using 3 touchpad PCs in strategically located parts of the house.   From them I can do everything else like playlist creating and editing, automation scheduling and the like.  Homeseer running on a touchscreen PC acts as the integration hub for all of it.

As for HDVT distribution nobody seems to be offering realistically priced solutions yet.  I've got RF coax going to each TV in addition to the CAV's composite video signal.  I figure at some point someone will offer an ATSC RF modulator that will let me pump an HDTV signal onto an in-house HDTV 'channel' much like existing RF modulators.  Either that or via CAT5 somehow.  I've got the wire in there and it's all terminated to a patch panel so changing it later won't be too big a deal. 

This is among the many reasons NOT to hard-wire your in-wall cables directly to equipment and to leave slack in the wall behind the plates.  You never know how you'll rearrange things, if because of new techologies or changes in use patterns.  Patch panels (either F-type for coax or RJ45 for CAT5) make it a lot easier.  A bit of extra cable left behind at the wall plates also means you can attach new stuff later and not worry about there not being enough wire to handle the stripping and reattaching that might be needed.

If you put your location into your profile it might help you find if others are nearby.

[MAPgeekdad]

BK,

Thanks alot for this and the prevous posts, which have helped me quite a bit in understanding everything.

CAV6 (or whatever controller) would be in the main LR with all the sources.  Closet is for ethernet network, patch panels ,video dist, file server(s), etc. and is one level below.

Doorbells, yes fine.  But i was hoping to do CCTV and at least lighting and A/C control.  I guess i can just run the extra CAT5 to each room for an addtl keypad for home controls back to another home auto controller, as a future expansion?

The sub-zone / ABUS explanation was good.  That is what i would need to do for a lanai / outdoor area on the lowest level yard and possibly roof deck.

For HDTV, what about the suggestion of mcascio, run it over CAT5e using the component to cat5 balun on each end, giving you the ability to do long runs?

Any issue running all these wires together in one pipe?  Structured cable looks tidy but not sure if it is worth the extra cost.

My location,.. that's the problem.  I will source everything out of the US but I am working and residing in the Philippines.   There are less than a handful of dealers that even know of this stuff and maybe 1 that can do it.  So i really need to be able to understand, assist and support it afterward.  This is one reason i like the CAV6 setup, and the fact that i am an MC11 user for my digital media.

I really am depending on this forum (and others) support for my knowledge.  Thanks to yourself and everyone out there.


Regards,
Mark

[JimH]

User Hyslopc wrote a plug-in for MC and CAV.  Here's his thread on AVSForum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=534233

[MAPgeekdad]

Jim,

Yes, that is one of the reasons i was drawn to the Russound.  Also, the cost was "reasonable" compared to many other solutions.

Rgds,
Mark