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[skidoo]

Is this true? Will Version 8 customers (particularly us very revent ones) have to pay an upgrade fee to get version 9??

[phelt]

Go ask Adobe or Microsoft or Macromedia or nearly any other software company if users have to pay for full version number upgrades.

[ChicoSelfs]

I think that JRiver will decide that soon, now we have to wait

[KingSparta]

skidoo

The final version of MJ9 will not be out for sometime.

If i payed for Windows NT, Microsoft Did Not Give Me Windows XP Pro For Free, It Cost Me $199.00.

[TimB]

All in IMHO of course.

My attitude to a "pay for 9" would vary based on the improvements for MJ9.

Its a valid issue to refer to Microsoft and XP IF the relative change from 8 to 9 is as big as the change from 98SE to XP.  Don't forget XP SP1 is free (if you download it.)

On the other hand (there's always another hand ) I'm sure that JRiver are concerned about revenue flow.  Insufficient revenue flow means no JRiver which means no MJ10.

Just some rambling thoughts.

-=Tim=-

[shAf]

... another rambling thought ...

Microsoft still supports Windows 2000 ... it's not like they issued XP and then forgot about Win2k.  I hope JRiver continues to support such a significant release as is v8.

[Ozmusic]

Whilst I'm not particularly philanthropic, would fully expect to pay for a major upgrade, and it sounds like v9 is going to substantially take us into the next generation of this software genre.

[Doof]

Besides which, JRiver never made any promises about version 8 customers getting 9 for free. They repeatedly said that it hadn't been decided.

TimB> SP1 isn't an upgrade to XP. It's just a big patch full of bugfixes. So it wouldn't be suprising that it's free and really has no parallel to MJ 8 or 9. It would be akin to a new build of MJ 8, not a new release of MJ9.

Besides which, Microsoft did charge customers to upgrade from 98 to 98SE.

[drosoph]

How about this one ... I downloaded version 9 ... using the link in the  v9.0 program, went to obtain a license ... paid for a license ... If there were no cutoff date for 9.0 and it can only be bought once it is "officially" released, I would have to buy it again ?

This is true, btw ... I've never used a copy of MJ before 9.0 ... I wasnt liking my old player so I came here ... found the link for 9.0 and downloaded ....

Just a minor gripe, personally ... I love the software ... And, it doesnt appear that it will be out of alpha/beta in the really near future ... But, it is interesting to have a BUY link in an alpha copy !

[JimH]

I'm going to try something we've never done before on policy -- sharing our plans as we're making them.

Please keep this in mind: we need to see increased revenue from MJ to continue development long term.  We've spent several million dollars on development.  Our network software business has supported this.  I don't mean to suggest that MJ development will stop, but we will not be able to keep up with market changes and competitors unless we make ends meet.

So here is a DRAFT of PRICING POLICY.  Feel free to make suggestions.

Currently
Media Jukebox Version 8.0 costs $24.98.  It works with any 7.x license.  No other upgrade prices exist.

Planned (maybe)
MJ Version 9.0 will be $29.98 until December 15, $44.98 after that.
It will also work with any 8.0 license bought before October 1.  8.0 licenses bought after October 1 will be upgradable for $19.98.  A 7.x license will be upgradeable for $24.98.

We will also make a 9.0 license work with 8.0 so you can switch back and forth.

On launch the name may be changed to JRiver Media Center.  If we do this, we will probably also keep selling Media Jukebox 8.0 for some time.


OK, FIRE AWAY.

[skidoo]

1. I like the pricing policy.

2. I like the name Media Center, versus Media Library.  Media Center describes the application more accurately.  And the initials "MC" have that little double-entendre thing going for them.

[Doof]

When I at first read the price hike to $44.98, my first thought was, "Ouch!" But then I realized what kind of app that would be buying, and I realized it would be worth it. Audio, Video and Image support all in one package is definitely worth the price. What are some of these other image organizers running for these days? I know that 20-30 isn't out of the ordinary for an audio jukebox, so 45 is reasonable for MJ.

I'm kind of wondering if it would be a better idea to sell Media Center (maybe now we can stop being confused with those Music Match people) as two products? Media Jukebox that just plays audio and video for $29.99 and then the $15.00 add-on that turns it into Media Center with image support? Just an idea. I'm just wondering how many people would be turned off by the $44.99 price tag. Hell, I'm ok with it. But then, you're talking to somebody who actually paid for Siren Jukebox. I've spent more money on things that gave me less satisfaction.

One question about the upgrade pricing. Any idea how the upgrade process will work? Will we have to maintain 2 licenses (Is that "Yesterday" I hear?) or will there be some sort of conversion process? Just curious.

[Eaglesfam]

Jim,

Obviously you know the economic needs of J River better than any of us...

BUT, $45 for a computer music jukebox is excessive.  WMP and WinAmp are free.  Now I dont dispute that MJ is the king.  But $45 is a lot  of money to put down for a new program.

A 25 dollar upgrade fee is a lot for Version 7 users.  I myself bought version 7  when version 8 betas were out and only used version 8.  That is my fault obviosuly for not waiting until 8's release.  

Everybody here makes the argument that Microsoft charges for new versions.

This is true, but there isnt a new version of Winddows or Office every 6 months.   Their releases are 1-3 years apart are represent huge upgrades,

Frankly, I dont know why your updated version isnt called 8.3 or something... It changes by leaps and bounds with each new release, but at this point it isnt drastically different.

Again, Jim I respect your work here and also your right to charge what you want.  But my 2 cents are 1)$45 dollars is a lot of money for this program and 2)the upgrade isnt a huge changes (at this point) over version 8 to justify charging existing version 8 users...


THanks for your forum and candor

[nila]

I know you need money to survive but I personally think the prices are too high.
Especially for a product with limited restores etc. That's something that's bugged a lot of people including me and I'd never pay that much for a program that wasn't a full no strings license. I know your worried about cracks but for a lot of people it's not a case of you've lost half your customers to the ones that are using cracks, it's more a case of the ones using the cracks would either use it cracked or just wouldn't use it. A few of them might pay but not that many.

Also, I'd never pay that for a jukebox fullstop. I know MJ is pretty powerful but I just use it as a light user and so do a LOT of people I think you'll find.
Winamp 3 is free and so are a lot of other jukebox programs. If I'd come along and seen that MJ was priced at that much for v8 I'd never have bought it in the first place. For me the price was just about what I was willing to pay for a jukebox program.
For the relatively few extreme audio people on this site who have it linked up to their home stereo's, tv's etc I'm sure that's not too bad a price but for the average person just wanting to listen to music on their computer I think your going to kill your market. Unless of course you are just going for this pure specialised market.

Thanks for the free upgrade because I'd love to play with v9 but to be honest I'd never fork out again for the update. It's way too soon to when v8 was released. With windows there's a big release with a LOT of changes every 2 or so years. With MJ it's been a few months. With a build pattern like that it'd be costing me like 3 major upgrades per year.

I know you have to make money but if you have X customers all paying amount B and then decide you need twice as much money, the answer isn't to try charge them 2B, it's to try to get 2X as many customers. Charging twice as much means you'll probably just end up with X/2 customers.

I know some users in the past have said they'd be willing to pay $45 but that's probably a slight exageration on their part to make a point on what they'd want to pay and also probably just a few power users who are making pretty good money and use MJ to it's full power.

If you want to start going to this high a price for MJ I HUGELY suggest you make a light version without things like scheduler, download manager, Media Server etc and sell just the plain jukebox by itself for a lower amount.

The $29.98 price is as much as I think I'd be willing to ever pay for MJ and as much as most general users would be willing. The fact it doesn't have the 30 what to speak of 40 ring to it just means I'd just about for it out.

You'll start making more cash from reviews at sites like CNET as they send customers your way. I think you need to play a more long term strategy and just wait for the number of customers to increase as sites like CNET refer them over and people tell their friends about it. And again to help with that, I've said it before, I think you really need to make MJ more user friendly for beginners with wizards etc, that will REALLY pay off as unpower users are sent over from CNET. I think that's the most important change you should make to v9. Add some wizards for Creating smartlists, doing batch jobs on the whole db (ie getting image covers, etc). Right now for isntance to analyse replay gain on the songs you have to select them all, choose properties, then Replay Gain or something like that.
There should just be a straight tool: Analyse Replay Gain.

[ChicoSelfs]

A 7.x license will be upgradeable for $24.98.

Well i have a 7.x license and i agree with JimH in this matter other like me would agree too

[Eaglesfan]

As an addendum...
I do relize that MJ plans to be an audio/video monster.

If you added Video editing (for minicams) then $45 would be reasonable.  But for the ability to just play music and video files, 45 bucks is a lot

Would CNET rate MJ so highly if the price was $45?  Cost is a consideration in their ratings

[Doof]

Well considering that before this, a version 7 license didn't get you anything relating to version 9, I think an upgrade price of 24.98 is just great.

And I can completely agree with you that there isn't a significant change between 8 and the alpha version of 9. Because image support is definitely not major. And neither are the other myriad changes that are sure to come as it evolves from an alpha to full version.


There are things hinted at in 9 that I haven't seen mention of, that I think could evolve into something better down the road. The Favorites list for instance.

Have patience. I think 9 is going to grow quite nicely. At that point, you can decide if you want in or not.

[SeanC]

Allowing a free upgrade from one major version to the next was unnecessary.  The number of new features added from v7 to v8 easily justified an upgrade fee.

Image support in v9 isn't worth an upgrade fee to me, although some of the other proposed features (DJ/Mixing, for instance) would make an upgrade fee worthwhile.  Given that, I think $25 is a reasonable upgrade fee.

I really like the idea of a base product licensed for, say $30, and optional plug-ins licensed separately (like slide show).

[Matt]

This is true, but there isnt a new version of Winddows or Office every 6 months. Their releases are 1-3 years apart are represent huge upgrades

Load up Media Jukebox 7 sometime and compare it to 8.  You'll be amazed at how horrible it is by comparison -- and not because 7 was horrible, but because 8 is that much better.  You'll say the same thing about version 8 when we're done with version 9.

Then load up Word 97 and compare it to Word XP.  Not that different, but it represents $100's in upgrade costs.

[KingSparta]

>> MJ Version 9.0 will be $29.98 until December 15, $44.98 after that.
I will Be in Line For $29.98

>>$44.98
A bit Much

$34.98 <-> $39.98 Might be better

[bspachman]

Ummm, am I the only one mystified by the proposed V8 upgrade pricing?

"MJ Version 9.0 will be $29.98 until December 15, $44.98 after that.
It will also work with any 8.0 license bought before October 1. 8.0 licenses bought after October 1 will be upgradable for $19.98."

As I read it, if I purchase V8 today--9/19--V9 will cost me nothing. I'll be able to use all the fancy, great V9 features for free. If I wait 2 weeks--until after October 1--then buy V8, V9 will end up costing me $24.98 (for V8) |PLS| $19.98 (for V9 upgrade)--that's a total of $44.96, right?

I guess I'm surprised that people buying V8 closer to the release date of V9 get penalized with a $20 upgrade fee. It seems backwards to me...

Or am I misreading something?

Brad

[JimH]

Brad
> If I wait 2 weeks--until after October 1--then buy V8, V9 will end up costing me $24.98 (for V8) |PLS| $19.98 (for V9 upgrade)--that's a total of $44.96, right?

No, you can just skip ahead and buy Version 9 now and get it for $29.98.  That license will also work with version 8.0.

[drosoph]

The pricing seems very reasonable to me (considering the multitude of features the product provides).  But, the large pricetag on v9 post-december might turn a few heads ... a few bucks less and you get a bit more attention ...

[JimH]

Here are a few other products and prices, for comparison:

ACDSee is $49.95
http://www.acdsystems.com/English/Products/ACDSee/feature1.htm?LAN=English#

Lview Pro is $39
http://www.lview.com/AboutLViewPro.htm

Paint Shop Pro is $99
http://www.jasc.com/products/psp/

Even WinZip is $29
http://www.winzip.com

There are other products that are free or under $44.98, but the reality is that they were often subsidized (WinAmp by AOL, MusicMatch by Thomson and others, Sonique by Lycos, and so on) and after the dotcom collapse, they are either not developing much or they are moving toward a more realistic economic model.  MusicMatch and Real now charge monthly for subscriptions, for example.

[skidoo]

> $45 for a computer music jukebox is excessive.

Umm, no.  Not if you're a serious MP3 user.

> Also, I'd never pay that for a jukebox fullstop. I know
> MJ is pretty powerful but I just use it as a light user
> and so do a LOT of people I think you'll find.

If you're a "light user," you might want to try switching to a "light program."  I have my entire music collection on MP3s (3000  songs), a dedicated music server wired into two sound systems (including a whole-house audio system), and an MP3 music system in my car.

Media Jukebox is a godsend.  If the tag editing was a little more stable and speedy (it locks up on me routinely), MJ would be perfect.  And certainly worth $45.  I will be recommending it to my MP3-carzy friends.

[nila]

Image Viewers can charge more because as of yet, the built in capabilities in Windows are poor for graphics.
WMP comes built into Windows and is likely to kill most the competition (take netscape v IE for instance).
The only way that I can see that you can hope to compete is to make the price tag not so great that people who are browsing by are scared off.
They have to look at the price and think it's not that bad to try an alternative, not look at it and go: Wow, thats alot.

I definitely dont advice going over the $3x.99 price range.
Hitting the 40's is definitely too high in my opinion.

And as for the competition being subsidised, it might be, but this doesn't change the fact that it's competition. Esp with things like winamp which have such a huge following.
If I was faced with $45.00 to buy MJ I know for a fact I'd be using Winamp 3 right now.
Also, What's the restore policy etc going to be in v9 because this is also hugely important.
Look at any of your own examples. They all give you a full license for the product, not limited to any number of restores per year.

[JimH]

Nila
> Esp with things like winamp which have such a huge following.

JRiver now has more people on MJ development than AOL has on WinAmp development.

[KingSparta]

If J river Went To A Montly Charge Like Real And MusicMatch What Price Would That Be?

I Did not know MusicMatch Went To Monthly Charge For The MP3 Player.

>> ACDSee is $49.95
Never Played With It

>> Lview Pro is $39
Never Liked It

> Paint Shop Pro is $99
A Very High Learning Curve

>> http://www.winzip.com/
Best Thing Since Sliced Bread (Mine Is Registered) Along With The Self Extractor.

[RemyJ]

If J river Went To A Montly Charge Like Real And MusicMatch What Price Would That Be?

Don't even START down that path.  I'd gladly shell out $35 - $40 but even a monthly charge of $1 would make me say "Adios".  It would just add to the monthly clutter of my bank/credit card statements.  I can't imagine the adminsitrative overhead to J River would be a good thing either.

[Jaguu]

Still of the opinion that the product should be split: one for the high-end user (type media center, networked home) with all the gimmicks and one for the low-end user who just wants to rip, play music, organize songs and burn cd's. They should be priced differently.

Once you get used to a specific software and learn to love it, you are also willing to pay for extra features!

Jaguu

[Mirko]

> ACDSee is $49.95

It supports reading EXIF-information and is specialiced in video and picture-organizing. And it's not that good at it.

> Paint Shop Pro is $99

PSP is a great product with many good features ("resamping"). And I don't think you will build in that many edit-function into MJ.

The pricing of about 25$ for an upgrade is fair, if MJ9 gets more options/features regarding to picture/video-handling (as I see it now, it will). For a serious audio-fan 44$ is not too much, if he gets a good product helping him saving hours of work (this is what MJ is for me). But I don't think you will get the "normal" users, which are by far the most people...
I know from my own experience, that two different version of one software is very difficult to support and handle. But I think, that you should offer the "big" one for 44$ and a specialized one for audio for about 25$.

That are my thoughts. I personally don't care that much how much I have to spend on MJ9. I earn quite a bit of money; but I'm quite sure this is not everyone...

[eso]

The actual price tag is not so much of a problem for me, I think MJ would even be worth $45. But for me the new licensing scheme of V8 is not acceptable, because I would like to be sure that software that I buy will work on my system in the future, even if I don't have an internet connection available or there's no more JRiver website to renew my install key. Therefore, I won't buy V9 anyhow (unless that will be changed, but I don't think so).

But many other people probably won't buy MJ, because they simply don't know it. You're stating that you need to make money from it - but what are you doing to get known? Just raising the price will not help, because it will only put off existing customers but obviously not attract new ones.

As I said in previous post, MJ ist by far the best media management tool out there, so you need to communicate that somehow (e.g. by bundling slightly limited or older versions with hardware or something like that) instead of squeezing out and hindering your loyal customers.

Elmar

[Doof]

I spent $400 on a remote control.

$45 for my favorite piece of software is nothing. I can't say that I would do that every 6 months, but once a year, definitely. I already spend $50 a year buying the newest version of Microsoft Money.

[phelt]

The major reason that I bought MJ was for the Media Library and organizational abilities. For me, most of the other features are unused. I don't do streaming media or TV on the computer, I don't use a portable that requires a plugin, I don't need a media server, and I have better utilities for tagging, editing, replaygain, ripping and burning. Perhaps v9 will make some of these additional tools, perhaps not. But if it doesn't completely replace at least some of them, I'm not paying for an upgrade - there would be no value in it for me. As for new functionality, the same rule would apply - only if it can completely replace an existing utility or offer features unavailable elsewhere.

One thing I'm concerned about is diffusion. As more features and utilities are added to MJ/MC/whatever, what will happen to the quality of service and the addressing of minor issues? A greater number of functions means a greater number of potential issues - that's just software, IMO. But how that will affect the prioritization of issues remains to be seen. Also, I worry when software that I use starts to become an "all in one" package because it most often translates to "best at none" and I wind up moving on to other utilities.

Last, the restore issue: this is my only major gripe with MJ, and the thing that keeps me from recommending it to anyone. Between the limited number of restores and the difficulties faced by newbie users, I can't honestly reccomend it to many people. And given the sensitivity of the multiple protections, there is a resulting small measure of dread. I have to question whether I should make certain computer changes or upgrades because of one software package - not a good situation. Increased cost with no change in that policy and architecture would be a negative influence for me.

[jgourd]

I really dont care what it will cost, I really really don't. Charge me what ever you think is fair. Just don't turn MJ into some MMJB, Siren, RJ, or MS MP clone. I pretty much like it the way it is with some minor exceptions who's discusssion is off tipic in this thread.

[Goslinged]

I'm a relative newcomer here, but I don't object at all to paying an upgrade premium for a great app that I'm using and enjoying immensely.  My one concern is that version 9 stays compatible with my PC's current overall configuration.  While I'm happy I found MJB, I came to it after MMJB's most recent upgrade.  That one not only failed to load it's bloated GUI, but proved a real b**ch to uninstall completely.  Afterwards, previous versions of MMJB wouldn't run right either, and the tech support was pretty shabby.  So the $$ is no issue, so long as V9 is a polished, quality upgrade with good support from the developers.
--Cheers from Hoboken, NJ--

[sekim]

If I was faced with $45.00 to buy MJ I know for a fact I'd be using Winamp 3 right now.
.

Or reformatting your harddrive every month.

$45.00 is pittance for this app. I spend several hundred dollars a year in new and used cds. Tack on a couple more bucks for cd-r / cd-rw media and whatever else I deem necessary for the music that I enjoy so much. If that means I have to anty up, so be it. I'd much prefer to see my dollars go towards the development of MJ, which has actually got me doing more with my music then anything else in the past.

MP3 cds that i take to work with me everyday are just one the things I like about this. Playback thru the stereo is going to be more dependent on MJ in the future. Now the ability to manage pictures, this is a bargain in my book.

[Charlemagne 8]

I INSIST on paying $50 or more for Version 9.
Signed,
Anonymous

[JimH]

anonymous,
send money.  we'll think about sending software.

captain hook

[sekim]

I INSIST on paying $50 or more for Version 9.
Signed,
Anonymous

Hey mister, you forgot to log off first....

[ShellyR]

Since you asked, I'm going to take the opportunity to whine a little bit.  In all honesty, I have little patience for much of the complaining that is posted regarding pricing and licensing policies.  I normally keep all of my software current and fully expect to pay for upgrades.  

It's possible that my situation in the case of MJ is unique.  However, I paid for version 7 in May (discovered Interact the following day and the existance of the V8 beta) and for Slide Show in July.  If I had purchased V8 (which I would have if I had known about it), I wouldn't have to pay to upgrade to V9 and as it appears that V9 will contain the functionality of Slide Show, my purchase and support of of that plug-in seems to be of short-lived value.   Perhaps some exceptions to the pricing policy can be considered based on the purchase date of the licensed versions.

I like the idea of 2 levels of MJ - a basic and an advanced version.  I think most of the people I know would be interested in the basic version and are not interested in more features than MM has to offer.  It might be difficult to convince them to switch from MM if the pricing differential is significant.  Perhaps after becoming familiar and comfortable with the "basic" version, they would be motivated to upgrade to an "advanced" version.  

Shelly

[Charlemagne 8]

I believe that a dual pricing/ function level scheme would be good. Of those who said that they would gladly pay for MJ9, (one idiot even wanted to pay $50)most of those are experienced MJ users. I.E. they know what they would be paying for.
An introductory model would probably sway more new users than a $45 price tag.  That's a lot of money to pay for something you don't know about.
OK. Now that's FOUR cents worth. I'm down to $49.96.
CVIII

[DeathRider]

I will go along with JimH pricing scheme. all is fair to me and I will jump on the opportunity to get it at the best price while I can. In my case I am moving from a condo to a townhouse and in Miami that is a big jump in cost so I need to start budgiting my funds. and if anyone is wondering, a townhouse in Miami (Mine) runs 170,000 so it is penny pinching time here. LOL


By the way, this new BB is cool but what gives with the three stars and Senior Wood Chuck under them  LOL

[KingSparta]

>> By the way, this new BB is cool but what gives
>> with the three stars
# Of Posts a User made?

[Lynn]

As a version 7 customer,  I expected to pay for version 8.  I certainly think it is fair to pay for version 9, and the price is reasonable.

Frequency of major versions, and what content changes are required to justify one is an issue.

Perhaps another way to go is on an annualized basis.  Inital purchase includes 1 year of free upgrades, which can be renewed each year at a rate lower than purchasing the newest version.  This would make the major version issue moot.  This would also provide a constant revenue stream, rather than spikes when major upgrades occur.

[Bird.of.Prey]

I think the two best ideas for pricing are the one expressed above (a yearly rate that is can be renewed and costs less that paying for the most recent version - though J River would have to be sure to release new versions often then) and a component scheme.

In the component idea I think you should start out with a VERY cheap (preferably freeware), VERY stripped down version of MJ. This should include trial versions of the more advanced aspects of MJ (either trial by time period or limiting the functionality). Then other components can be bought and downloaded online, and probably offered in bundles that would be cheaper than buying the components separately. This would allow newbies who might not be willing to commit to try out and fall in love with MJ, then maybe upgrade to a more powerful version, and allows ALL users to pick and choose what they need... only spending what is necessary.

[jolo]

I understand paying for a major upgrade. BUT ... I've heard about charging existing customers $44.95, almost doouble of what the price of the current price is, is out of line. I would definately not do it.  Even $29.95 as I heard as well, is too high.
Seems to be a lot of rich people here, could buy me a copy of 9 for $44.95 please ?

I think  must honor you must existing loyal $25 customers who got you going. Don't know what you would charge for new users of 9, but more than $15.00 for an upgrade, which is about 66% if my math is correct would be appropriate if the product has improved. By improved I mean, more quality, not more "stuff".

I do find it great that  you are asking your customer base first, that is why I purchased MJ in the first place.

[PhatPhreddy]

First off the bat... I have no real issue with the purchase price and continued support of MJ and JRiver... That said I am not a normal user... I wonder how many there are out there that need an all encompassing app that may cost $45...

Also from my point of view all I am using is the player and cataloger of APE files... I rip with EAC.. I compress with monkeys... I simply use MJ as an audio player with the web remote and glissando....  I use none of the image / DVD  / TV stuff as all of this is handled far better by other apps (I hold the dScaler domains so I could be biased ) so then what is the $45 buying...

Well for me what it is buying is the only developer that I can persuade to be interested in higher end audio is JRiver.... If I have to pay more in Reg fees to have a developer listen to ASIO / upsampling / Good SDK's / etc then thats what I am paying for... Not the feature set of bloat but the possibility that this could develop into the higher end of audio that no one else seems to be targetting... How many people are there like me thinking about >$500 external rackmounted soundcards ?? Possibly not many...

I personally have no problem... I think many many people would see that price as a barrier for entry.... Larger user bases pay the bills....

Lastly... I would have to say that at near the $50 there should be DTS / DD decoders built in and the ability to Rip DTS redbook CD's (a la Chesky) and DVD-V audio vobs... This requires additional Dolby / DTS license costs (unless you want to go directshow) but if so many other DVD players can afford this at the $50 (or $15 for simply the filters) price bracket then I wonder if JRiver can.... This is a add on I would pay for... another $25 for a plug in that connected the directshow pins (even manual filtergraph building like Zoom Player) between your WavOut and the audio renderer of other installed DVD SW is what I would call a value added....  If you want to target the premium payers target the high disposable income crowd with an 'optional add on'....

Just my 0.02 Euros.... Whatever you do... Count on my support...

[JimH]

_____[Swordsman's post moved here by JimH]____
The way I see it, this $45 pricing scheme will put you into a middle-to-high-end niche market - which could be difficult to generate enough revenue to stay with cutting-edge development.  I think you have two options: a lite/full version setup or a plug-in system.  Here's why:

When I am looking for sofware at Download.com - I look first at Freeware or low-cost stuff to see if something fits my needs.  If MJ could put a substantial feature set into a "lite" version that was either free or less than $15, that could get you alot of visibility.  Then once people use "MJ Lite" for awhile, and advance their skills and their media collections, they would naturally need more features and controls - so there is a good chance they would gravitate up to buying the pay version.  That is where they could get into advanced features like Media Server, Media Editor, Radio Stations, Image Management, etc...  It would be up to JRiver to research and find a good balance of not giving so much in "lite" that people don't buy the full, but also not putting out a "lite" that is vastly inferior to the free competition.

I personally like the plug-in idea...  You only want MP3 playback, playlists, and skins?  Free!  You now want to add SmartLists? $5 more please!  Media Editor with converter?  $10!  Now you're really advanced and you want Media Server and Image Management?  $10 more please!  Or you could buy the full version for $45 - a discount compared to the sum of the parts!  It would be like buying a car - customized for each person's needs, or simply getting the whole package.  You could even call it Media Center Suite!    

You would be getting happy customers at the basic level and happy customers at the advanced level.  A straight $45 pricing scheme will likely not get you very many middle-to-entry-level customers but you will, of course, retain your hard-core advanced customers.  Will that be enough?

_____[End of Swordsman's post]____

[jclack]

Pertinent to this discussion is whether or not (or when) support MJ V8 will be abandoned.  It's only a matter of time and there are still bugs to be exterminated in V8.  For example, MJ froze w/ an exception y'day when I used Ctrl-P to start back up from pause.  If troubleshooting/debugging of V8 will continue after the debut of V9, then I see nothing wrong with charging to upgrade.

However, I've been the victim of many S/W companies' claim that bugs will be fixed in the new version (read: $$ for upgrade) and refusing to fix the app I paid for.  Symantec (pcAnywhere, WinFAX, Talkworks), Micro$soft (WinXX, Office, etc)  and other companies have done this.  I believe this to be unethical.  

If further debugging support for V8 does diminish or disappear after the debut of V9, then I believe anyone w/ clear evidence of a remaining bug in V8 should get V9 free.  Otherwise, a breach of contract has occurred.

Jim