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[lalittle]

I'm getting a big gap between WAV files when playing them over Media Server.  I do NOT get this gap when playing them without Media Server even though I'm STILL accessing them over the network.  In other words, WAV files located on my other system and accessed over the network play without any gaps as long as I don't utilize Media Server to access them.  If I use Media Server, I get a long pause during which MC gives me the message "openning file."  This therefore has nothing to do with network speed -- it's entirely a Media Server problem.

This has been an issue since version 10, and continues with 11.1.118.

Is this a bug with Media Server?

Thanks,

Larry

[John Gateley]

Hi Larry,

This isn't happening for me. How long are the WAV files you are playing?

j

[lalittle]

Hi Larry,

This isn't happening for me. How long are the WAV files you are playing?

j

Any length -- I ripped a couple CDs as WAV files (like "The Wall") and I get the pause between any two songs as long as I'm using Media Server to play songs from the Library.  If I don't use Media Server to play the EXACT same files over the EXACT same network connection, they play without the gaps.  In other words, if I navigate to the SAME files via the "Drives and Devices" branch and play the songs, there are no gaps.  If I instead navigate to these songs via the "Audio" branch (i.e. via the "Library") I get the gaps.

Are you sure you you're testing the same thing I'm describing?  Are you specifically using Media Server to access ANOTHER SYSTEM'S LIBRARY and playing the songs using the "Audio" branch of the tree, and are they "full bitrate" wav files (i.e. 1411kbps)?  Over the past couple years, I've had the same issue on more than one system using several different versions of MC.  Based on my tests, this REALLY does not seem to be system dependant -- it seems to be a bug with Media Server.

Can anyone else test this out for me?  I specifically ripped to WAV files to eliminate gaps on albums that don't have gaps between songs.  I CAN play the albums without gaps, but only if I do as described above and access the songs via the "Drives and Devices" branch.  I'd LIKE to be able to use Media Center to access the songs via the regular "Audio" branch.

Note also that the bitrate does NOT show up (it displays as "?") when accessing the wav files via Media Center and the "Audio" branch.  Once again, when instead navigating to the SAME files via the "Drives and Devices" branch, the bitrate (1411 kbps) DOES display.

Thanks,

Larry

[Yaobing]

Do you use Gapless option?

If you DO NOT use gapless option, do the two methods give you the same results?

[lalittle]

Do you use Gapless option?

If you DO NOT use gapless option, do the two methods give you the same results?

Yes -- I have the playback set to gapless.  Note that this "shouldn't" make a difference in this test -- i.e. the files should play the same way regardless of whether I play them through the "Audio" branch (i.e the library) vs playing them through the "Drives and Devices" branch (i.e. NOT the library.)  The bottom line is that Media Server is adding the gaps.

Thanks again for any help with this,

Larry

[Yaobing]

Yes -- I have the playback set to gapless.  Note that this "shouldn't" make a difference in this test --

I was not saying it should make a  difference. I was just trying to confirm something that I had on my mind.

Is it that the gapless setting gets ignored when playing via Library Server?

[Yaobing]

Larry,

Let me ask you a different question:

When you play WAV over Library Server, do you see Visualization (or the spectrum analyzer on the current track Info window) on the client machine?

Yaobing

[lalittle]

Larry,

Let me ask you a different question:

When you play WAV over Library Server, do you see Visualization (or the spectrum analyzer on the current track Info window) on the client machine?

Yaobing

No to both questions -- no visualization, and no spectrum analyzer when playing wav files via Media Server.  I don't even get a "Visualizations" option for the playing now screen when playing wav files via Media Server.  Instead, I see an option called "DirectX Player" that simply displays the cover art.

Once again, if I play an mp3 instead, everything works normally (even though I'm still using Media Server.)  Likewise, if I play the wav files via the "Drives and Devices" branch, everything works normally as well.  It's only when playing wav files by accessing them via Media Server and the "Audio" branch that things don't work properly (i.e. when accessing the files by using Media Server to access the other system's "Library.")

Thanks again,

Larry

[lalittle]

Is it that the gapless setting gets ignored when playing via Library Server?

I don't think this is the issue.  It's too long of a pause, and it says "openning" during the pause, which shouldn't happen just because it's not playing gapless.

It "appears" that the problem is this:  MC insists on pre-caching the entire next song before it even STARTS playing it, and it waits until the current song is completely finished before it starts the caching.  When NOT using Media Server to play songs over the network, it either caches the songs well before the end of the current song, or it allows the songs to start streaming right away rather than "waiting" for the caching to finish.

Thanks again for helping out with this,

Larry

[Yaobing]

I don't think this is the issue.  It's too long of a pause, and it says "openning" during the pause, which shouldn't happen just because it's not playing gapless.

This IS an issue. Thank you for confirming it. MC is not playing gapless because it plays it using DirectX player instead of the native playback engine.  If you were not trying gapless, you would not see (that much of a) difference. That what I wanted to confirm with you.

As for why MC is not playing it in the native engine, we will investigate.

[Yaobing]

I don't think this is the issue.  It's too long of a pause, and it says "openning" during the pause, which shouldn't happen just because it's not playing gapless.

Maybe you are right. This is not an issue. There is simply no big gap in either cases when I tried it on my computers 

It "appears" that the problem is this:  MC insists on pre-caching the entire next song before it even STARTS playing it, and it waits until the current song is completely finished before it starts the caching.

That does not seem to be the case. More likely it is a problem with DirectShow's graph-building. When playing tracks in DirectX engine, we can not have detailed control over output, such as crossfading, gapless etc. MC would not control how much data to cache in this case either.

[lalittle]

Maybe you are right. This is not an issue. There is simply no big gap in either cases when I tried it on my computers 

I tried it on three systems and got the same results, so this is really odd.  Are you SURE you're doing exactly what I'm describing?  Here is the procedure:

The main system (the server) is running Media Server (i.e. Library Server.)  The client system accesses the server's library via the IP address.

When I start MC on the client, I see the library download from the server before MC opens.  Once MC opens, I make sure the "Audio" branch is highlighted, and then use the panes to navigate to an album ripped as WAV -- I'm using "The Wall," which has a lot of songs with NO gaps in between them.  I highlight and play a song, then move the slider to within 10 seconds of the end of the song.  The song finishes, at which point the top bar says "Openning" during a long pause.  The next song then starts playing.

I hit stop, then I go to the "Drives and Devices" branch of the tree.  I manually navigate to the server's library and dig down to the same files (the exact same ones I just played above) in the tree.  I play the same song as above, which is marked with a "gold" note since it's not in the client system's own library.  I once again move the slider to within 10 seconds of the end of the song.  The song finishes and the next one starts with ZERO gap, which is what is supposed to happen (there is NO gap between these songs on the album.)

I don't understand what's happening here, but it seems really strange that you aren't seeing the issue while I get the same behavior on three different systems.  I'm wondering if there is a miscommunication somewhere regarding how I'm reproducing this issue.

That does not seem to be the case. More likely it is a problem with DirectShow's graph-building. When playing tracks in DirectX engine, we can not have detailed control over output, such as crossfading, gapless etc. MC would not control how much data to cache in this case either.

I tried changing the "playback" mode to "Wave Out" in the playback options, and nothing changed.  I don't quite understand what you're saying here.  You say you can't have detailed control over output, and that MC can't control how much data to cache, but how is it that the client system CAN play the songs on the other system just fine (as well as display the graphs and bitrate) as long as I don't use Media Server to do it.  Why can't Media Server do what the system can do by default?

Thanks again for helping out with this.

Larry

[John Gateley]

Hi Larry,

Yaobing and I have been working on the DirectX problem, as soon as we get that done we'll go from there...

j

[lalittle]

Yaobing and I have been working on the DirectX problem, as soon as we get that done we'll go from there...

Thanks.  Please let me know if you need further information from me (and whether or not you're able to reproduce the issue I'm seeing.)

Larry

[Yaobing]

Larry,

In the next build streaming WAV will be played in native playback engine, with support for Visualization, Equalizer, etc.

Please test it out.

I need to clarify something though:

I tried it on three systems and got the same results, so this is really odd.  Are you SURE you're doing exactly what I'm describing?  Here is the procedure:

Yes.

The main system (the server) is running Media Server (i.e. Library Server.)  The client system accesses the server's library via the IP address.

When I start MC on the client, I see the library download from the server before MC opens.  Once MC opens, I make sure the "Audio" branch is highlighted, and then use the panes to navigate to an album ripped as WAV -- I'm using "The Wall," which has a lot of songs with NO gaps in between them.  I highlight and play a song, then move the slider to within 10 seconds of the end of the song.  The song finishes, at which point the top bar says "Openning" during a long pause.  The next song then starts playing.

I never saw "Opening" when switching tracks. I did see one kind of pause when you seek to near the end shortly/immediately after a track starts to play. This is due to the fact that you are seeking to a point where the data has not yet been streamed to the client. This is particularly true for WAV files since they are big. If you let a track play for 30 seconds or one minute before you do seeking, then there would not be a pause.

You do not see this kind of pause when playing the files via network drive directly because, I believe, streaming is always slower than direct drive access.

[lalittle]

I never saw "Opening" when switching tracks. I did see one kind of pause when you seek to near the end shortly/immediately after a track starts to play. This is due to the fact that you are seeking to a point where the data has not yet been streamed to the client. This is particularly true for WAV files since they are big. If you let a track play for 30 seconds or one minute before you do seeking, then there would not be a pause.

Just to clarify, when I seek to the end, it does not have to pause before playing the current song at the new location.  The pause is ONLY when it hits the end of the song and has to start playing the next one.  This woiuld seem to indicate that Media Server is "waiting" until the new song wants to play to "do something."

You do not see this kind of pause when playing the files via network drive directly because, I believe, streaming is always slower than direct drive access.

I'm not sure I understand this.  In both cases, the file is being played from another system's drive.  Why would playing it via Media Server be "slower"?  That said, if it IS slower, than what is the advantage of having Media Server work the way it does?  Why does Media Server work in such a way that it is so much less efficient about loading the files?

I tried to test out waiting for the song to play all the way through, but unfortunately, WAV file playback (as well as Audible file playback) over the Media Server is not working at ALL with this build (121.)  When I try to play the wav files, they don't play, and I get a little exclamation mark next to them.  It looks like I'll have to wait for the next build to test this.

Thanks,

Larry

[Alex B]

Streaming is needed for Internet use.

However:

Actually, is it necessary to always "stream" the files? On a LAN the server could just provide direct HD file access for the clients. That could be an optional mode.

If the server could provide standard network shares instead of streaming the files it would resolve all file type problems including various video formats, cue or apl files etc.