Topic: Bi-Directional Links, err Rather 'Floating' links? (Read 6015 times)

datdude · « **on:** March 29, 2006, 10:23:41 pm »

I see there hasn't been much complaining that these were removed but that still doesn't mean it created confusing browsing logic as I'm not quite sure how it did?

I learned to love them and without them, find it difficult to browse as I have 6 fields in my main view and all but the album page could be trickled down to any of the other links. Imagine browsing to dates and realising you want to find a perfect mood for a group of years, but wait you can't, only artists and albums are available.

Now I have to start over go back to moods, and then find the year, very confusing for me. ?

Maybe we shouldn't consider them Bi-Directional then, but rather as just virtual links that aren't tied and locked down to the index hierarchical logic of the view scheme settings box? Isn't this what the tree is for anyways? Not having virtual links seems to make the the tree view redundant and the new tile view kinda pointless ,other than that is looks really nice!

Point being that the library view without these links, doesn't make it any easier to use than the tree view used to. This was the main reason why I supported the merged view in the first place. Before when there were no extra links, I never found a use for the original the Library view!

A solution would be, once a link is clicked on, it is no longer available, and so technically a user cannot go in 'reverse' as mentioned being the problem. All of the other links are still available from each tile (regardless of their hierarchy),just not the ones allready chosen in the current drill down browsing session. Simply reset your session at the top drop down to start over, as you have to do anyways when running into a media browsing brick wall without the extra links!

Lets eliminate those brick walls from MC, eh?

This seems to make the most sense as the bread crumbs show the previous links clicked and the tiles show the available ones still left. Click back on the breadcrumbs, and the extra link shows back up in the tiles, it doesn't matter what order you browse them in (hence the virtual link name). Make sense guys?

If this small modification still seems too much for new users, put it as an option in the view scheme settings and not in the options drop down as it was.

Anyone else have a thought on this subject?

Dutch Peter · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:13:57 am »

I mentioned that I missed the bi-directional links in the release threads, but reactions were low, as you mention.

I spent some time working without them, BUT I REALLY MISS THEM!!

The fact that they were optional was great: do not switch them on if you do not want to use them!

Hopefully more people feel like datdude and me. If you do, please leave a post to support our request.

hit_ny · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2006, 04:10:55 am »

What's wrong with Alt+-> (or <-)

..unless there is no kb involved here.

Jaguu · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2006, 05:24:53 am »

Yes, I miss it too now. At first I found it confusing, but once used it was a very nice and handy feature. I think it should be available as an option for those who really want it.

My example is the following: I have a view scheme named Artworks with following panes: Period>Artist>Gallery.

If I select right away a certain gallery, it would be nice to see all artists represented in that gallery. This is not possible right now.

I would have to add Artists once more, such as Period>Artist>Gallery>Artist or have another view scheme set up as Period>Gallery>Artist. The first solution does not look very nice, the second one needs an extra view scheme, which could be avoided having bi-directional Links

Dutch Peter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2006, 05:36:18 am »

Quote from: Jaguu on March 30, 2006, 05:24:53 am

Yes, I miss it too now. At first I found it confusing, but once used it was a very nice and handy feature. I think it should be available as an option for those who really want it.

My example is the following: I have a view scheme named Artworks with following panes: Period>Artist>Gallery.

If I select right away a certain gallery, it would be nice to see all artists represented in that gallery. This is not possible right now.

I would have to add Artists once more, such as Period>Artist>Gallery>Artist or have another view scheme set up as Period>Gallery>Artist. The first solution does not look very nice, the second one needs an extra view scheme, which could be avoided having bi-directional Links

Exactemundo!!

park · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2006, 06:57:03 am »

I just came to the forum to start this very thread (I was gonna start a poll actually). Panes naturally shows how one filters to the next one, but with tile view, a field takes the whole view while its there, so there's no reason why in should be one directional. Infact, the bi-directionality is the whole reason i dont mind doing all the extra clicking. without it, its just a slightly more decorative, but ultimately more clumsy, version of panes.

Please bring it back.

datdude · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2006, 10:47:29 pm »

Quote from: hit_ny on March 30, 2006, 04:10:55 am

What's wrong with Alt+-> (or <-)

..unless there is no kb involved here.

Huh?

That command doesn't do anything for me. What is it supposed to do?

hit_ny · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2006, 07:25:47 am »

Go back and forward in views just like IE. maybe does not apply in this case.

EpF · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:38:11 am »

Quote from: Dutch Peter on March 30, 2006, 01:13:57 am

I mentioned that I missed the bi-directional links in the release threads, but reactions were low, as you mention.

I spent some time working without them, BUT I REALLY MISS THEM!!

The fact that they were optional was great: do not switch them on if you do not want to use them!

Hopefully more people feel like datdude and me. If you do, please leave a post to support our request.

I'm not sure what these are - how do/did you switch them on?

datdude · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2006, 01:30:18 pm »

Quote from: hit_ny on March 31, 2006, 07:25:47 am

Go back and forward in views just like IE. maybe does not apply in this case.

Yeah that doesn't help for wanting access within a tile to all possibilities present, not just the links below the tile based on the archaic index based view organization.

Quote from: EpF on March 31, 2006, 09:38:11 am

I'm not sure what these are - how do/did you switch them on?

They were available in the top right options menu.

Basically the links will allow you to separate out the view scheme order logic and give you much more flexibility in browsing your library.

park · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:24:22 pm »

Put more simply: if your view scheme is set up tp browse by something like: "moods/genres/subgenres/artists/albums", then with bi-directional viewing it doesnt matter what order you those fields are in, in the view scheme settings, because they are always available.
Currently, using that viewscheme example, if i start from genres it would be impossible to view the moods for that genre unless i go into the view scheme setup and make "moods" come after "genres".
I cant tell you how quickly I came to depend on that way of browsing. Especially, for images.

datdude · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:41:03 pm »

I mean MC could actually be smart, ya know.

If you select an album say, and there is only one available tile for certain links say genre, then that link doesn't need to show up, right?

As said before, if you click on a link, that one goes away in the tiles, until you reset the browsing session at the top. Simple eh?

They don't actually have to bi-directional and this may have been a bad name and implementation of it. Making infinite links available doesn't make sense, I agree. So why not tweak it a bit so that some of the supposed issues simply go away, but still having the ability to not be tied down to the restrictive view settings logic? ?

jgreen · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:55:40 pm »

I'll throw two pennies into this wishing well. The bi-directional links, if that's what they're called, really opened up my library to searches, the way the stacks opened it up to browses. I would have complained sooner but I wasn't sure what to call this thing I was missing, or whether it was only a bug in the first place.

EpF · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2006, 07:04:33 pm »

Just reinstalled v.149 to try this out, but I couln't see any option which seemed to be the one. How far back do you have to go to get these bi-di links?

datdude · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2006, 07:43:39 pm »

Quote from: EpF on April 01, 2006, 07:04:33 pm

Just reinstalled v.149 to try this out, but I couln't see any option which seemed to be the one. How far back do you have to go to get these bi-di links?

I am using 11.1.140 but I thought .149 had them.

The actual option is called 'show all links' underneath show alphabet.

EpF · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2006, 01:44:41 pm »

Yes, I wondered if 'show all links' was what you meant; but now I've got it, I still can't figure it out. Sorry for being so dense.

Quote from: park on March 30, 2006, 06:57:03 am

with tile view, a field takes the whole view while its there, so there's no reason why in should be one directional.

In anything other than panes view, you're only seeing the representation of one pane, so how does this bi-directional system work?

Quote from: park on March 31, 2006, 09:24:22 pm

if your view scheme is set up tp browse by something like: "moods/genres/subgenres/artists/albums", then with bi-directional viewing it doesnt matter what order you those fields are in, in the view scheme settings, because they are always available.
Currently, using that viewscheme example, if i start from genres it would be impossible to view the moods for that genre unless i go into the view scheme setup and make "moods" come after "genres".

I have a few view-schemes with the same field at the beginning and the end for just that reason, but when you're in panes view, the 'show all links' option isn't there, and when you're not in panes view, you can only see one pane, as I said above, so I'm confused. I've tried a few views and turned on and off 'show all links', and haven't seen any change in the file results. I'd really appreciate a step-by-step explanation, if anyone would oblige...

datdude · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2006, 11:58:05 pm »

Quote from: EpF on April 03, 2006, 01:44:41 pm

Yes, I wondered if 'show all links' was what you meant; but now I've got it, I still can't figure it out. Sorry for being so dense.

In anything other than panes view, you're only seeing the representation of one pane, so how does this bi-directional system work?

I have a few view-schemes with the same field at the beginning and the end for just that reason, but when you're in panes view, the 'show all links' option isn't there, and when you're not in panes view, you can only see one pane, as I said above, so I'm confused. I've tried a few views and turned on and off 'show all links', and haven't seen any change in the file results. I'd really appreciate a step-by-step explanation, if anyone would oblige...

'All Links' refers to the view drop down in each tile and not in panes.

The latest versions without the 'all links' option only show the next available links following the current tile page. so...

I have a setup of Moods, Genres, Styles, Years, Artists, Albums,....

If I select Styles then in the current version without all links, you would ONLY see the Artists and albums links in each tile. With the 'all links' option in previous builds you would have also seen Moods and Genres.

MC is still the best, but I learned to use the 'all links' options so much that I can't move forward with newer builds, its that important to browsing my library. Why did it take them 3 months to decide it wasn't a worthy feature? I mean maybe for a week or 2 experiment, but come on! It doesn't make sense. I hope they have something else in the works, it's just taking them a while to implement it.

There has got to be a better way to implement this with the flexibility it provided but without the apparent confusing incarnation of it.

*****

I say when a link is selected, it is no longer available, so if you select one or more links in a browsing session, those links are no longer available but the rest are available regardless of their ORDER in the view scheme settings dialogue. This would ELIMINATE the continuous loops that could happen if the poorly named 'all links' option is on. It could be titled 'FLOATING LINKS'?

*****

Dutch Peter · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2006, 12:17:30 am »

Could one the developers tell us if we can expect this option back??

To my opinion it is just a matter of time for more people to appreciate how powerfull this can be!

Jaguu · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2006, 11:10:38 am »

I am in the process of reorganizing my classical music collection to adapt to the new MC11.1 interface.

Right now I have 7 different view schemes for such different tags as composer, conductor, instruments, subgenre, orchestra, opus and soloists. Each view scheme starts with one of the tags and drills down to other information.

With bi-directional links I think this could be reduced to one single view scheme including all the different tags. Example: You would click on orchestra and see all the conductors there for that orchestra and then move on to composer and albums for a specific composer, or you would click on conductors first, then on orchestra, then on albums and artist.

It would really be very handy if this feature comes back, just as an option for those who need it and can handle it.

EpF · « **Reply #19 on:** April 04, 2006, 04:41:27 pm »

Got it at last; thanks, datdude!

Now that I've got it, I'd like to add my support for re-instating this feature. As Jaguu says here:

Quote from: Jaguu on April 04, 2006, 11:10:38 am

Right now I have 7 different view schemes for such different tags as composer, conductor, instruments, subgenre, orchestra, opus and soloists. Each view scheme starts with one of the tags and drills down to other information.

I also have loads of nested view-schemes which deal purely with individual fields and most of them have multiple instances of the same field in them to add the flexibility I need. The kind of non-sequential functioning of 'show all links' would be invauluable.

I didn't discover and use this feature as it was implemented at a time when my only working computer wasn't powerful enough for me to enjoy experimenting much with new features, and I know it's a bit lame chiming in at this stage in the day, but for what it's worth, it seems a real shame to remove this functionality altogether, and I'd love to see it again in future versions.

jeffspl311 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:16:49 pm »

Even with only Genre/Artist/Album panes I really miss clicking on an artist in the Artist pane and having the Genre pane filter itself to show only the genres that artist played, and having the album pane filter itself to show which albums the artist produced.

This was really powerful, and I hope it comes back!

Cheers,
Jeff

park · « **Reply #21 on:** April 04, 2006, 08:11:20 pm »

For my image viewschemes I use semi-colon delimited "Photo Album" and "People" and "Places" fields. It is quite awkward to navigate through them using the same path each time. In actuality I want to move through these fields fluidly.

For example, I might want to choose:
Friends>Japan>Workmates
or
Spring>Tokyo

With thousands of images, all neatly tagged, its possible to navigate quite freely and come up with some interesting collections at the end... if you can click through the fields in any order.

Dutch Peter · « **Reply #22 on:** April 04, 2006, 11:59:54 pm »

I put our mutual request in the MC11.1..163 thread:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=33050.msg226371#msg226371

Please keep posting if you als would like the 'show all links' feature back!

marko · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2006, 02:00:30 am »

I miss these soo much.
Sure, they could end up going round in circles, but their usefulness far outweighed that little stumbling block. They were turned off by default, so, I don't see the problem? If a user enables them, goes into a loop, doesn't like/understand what's up, they can turn them off again.

Please consider making the option available again, surely it could be treated as an 'advanced feature' like split views, as jgreen was told a few days ago?

Matt · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2006, 08:56:28 am »

In my opinion, the right way to do this is to make a per view scheme setting as to whether it filters left-to-right or in both directions. Then the panes and tiles should honor this setting.

I don't think we have time to do this for MC 11.1

Dutch Peter · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2006, 01:02:29 pm »

Matt,
thanks for your respons.
Why not bring it back as it was.
You could put the option somewhere deep down in the option dialog (default = off)if it is only for advanced users.

You could always make it better in later releases!!!

Dutch Peter · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2006, 03:49:25 pm »

Quote

MC 11.1.164:
8. NEW: Panes now filter in both directions. (experiment -- may not remain)

This it an alternative. I like the way this works!

But it is only for the Panes ....

park · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2006, 08:13:57 pm »

I think you're absolutely right matt. It should be set in "edit viewscheme" It isnt something you really switch on and off at will, so it doesnt need to be on the main interface.

Dutch Peter · « **Reply #28 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:39:23 am »

Quote

3. Changed: Library grouping views have bidirectional links making them work much like the new pane system. (navigation circles no longer possible)
5. NEW: Filtering in both directions is now a per view scheme option. (only on for image views by default)

Yeeeaaahhhh!!

I took a quick peek before work. Looks VERY nice!

I will be testing it tonight.

Thanks guys, for listening to us

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Bi-Directional Links, err Rather 'Floating' links? (Read 6015 times)