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Author Topic: Otto's Name  (Read 18268 times)

Matt

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Otto's Name
« on: June 28, 2006, 05:23:16 pm »
Otto synchronizes the Media Center library with the hard drive on Media Center startup and after any change is detected in a watched folder.

In the screenshot of the interface we're building, you can see it gets called just about everything.

ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/Otto.jpg

Help us standardize our teminology.

Otto import
Background Importer
Automatic Library Updater
Library Updater
Library Synchronize
Watch Folder
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LonWar

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2006, 05:48:12 pm »
Otto is cool!!
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2006, 06:15:38 pm »
I think Watched Folders is the most intuitive.  Background Importer is cool too.

The terms relating to Library (Auto Library Updater, Sync, etc) are dangerous because it mixes terminology with the Library = Database files. (Meaning, is the "library" my media, or is it the database of my media?)  I understand it, but my wife wouldn't (and grandma really wouldn't).  I think Background Importer and Watched Folders are self-explanitory.

Otto is fun, but is kind of like MEGA ME.   ;)

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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2006, 06:24:09 pm »
Also, and this is a very small thing, I think it sounds better to change:

Quote
Allow remove missing network files

-to-

Quote
Don't remove missing network files

(And, of course, reverse what the checkbox does.)  Your way sounds like it was written by an ESL student.

Lastly, what is going to happen to that interface when I add 45 different folders for it to watch (okay that's an exaggeration, but still)?  The "tree style" you've got going there under "Folders" is okay for a handful of folders, but wouldn't a "Listbox" style list be more appropriate?  It's hard enough for me to work within the current 3.5 line listbox you have in the Import Media dialog.

Right now, including "excludes" (which I have a bunch of) I have 23 things listed in my Import Media search locations dialog in MC11.1.  I'm probably a somewhat extreme case, but still...
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Alex B

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2006, 06:32:02 pm »
Actually, what does Otto mean to you?

Here is what most people here in Finland probably think when they see the word Otto:



It is the name of an ATM chain. You can see these machines all over Finland. The word "otto" means about the same as the English verb "take" (not very far from import though). Of course, Otto is also a traditional given name (with German origin), but it is not very common.

If the picture is not clear enough perhaps this helps:
http://www.moneymatterstome.com/Interactive-Workshops/ATM.htm   ;D
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JimH

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2006, 06:41:59 pm »
Quote from: glynor on June 28, 2006, 06:24:09 pm
Your way sounds like it was written by an ESL student.
That strikes a little close to home, Zeus glynor.
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JimH

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2006, 06:49:51 pm »
Quote from: Alex B on June 28, 2006, 06:32:02 pm
Actually, what does Otto mean to you?
Otto is our Auto Import, but it's nice to know it has other meanings.
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KingSparta

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2006, 06:57:10 pm »
http://www.orkincommercial.com/about/history.asp

The Founder Of The Company I Work For "Otto Orkin"

I did not see this option in the current version however
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Matt

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2006, 07:03:09 pm »
Quote from: glynor on June 28, 2006, 06:24:09 pm
Your way sounds like it was written by an ESL student.

Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

Quote
Lastly, what is going to happen to that interface when I add 45 different folders for it to watch (okay that's an exaggeration, but still)?  The "tree style" you've got going there under "Folders" is okay for a handful of folders, but wouldn't a "Listbox" style list be more appropriate?  It's hard enough for me to work within the current 3.5 line listbox you have in the Import Media dialog.

Trees scroll just like lists.  This tree even holds more than 3.5 lines at a time.
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KingSparta

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2006, 07:27:11 pm »
I had to Look Up "ESL"

It Has A few Meanings

http://www.answers.com/esl&r=67
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2006, 08:24:21 pm »
Quote from: JimH on June 28, 2006, 06:41:59 pm
That strikes a little close to home, Zeus glynor.

Sorry... I guess that was quite harsh.  Didn't really mean it that way.   :-[

Quote from: Matt on June 28, 2006, 07:03:09 pm
Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

True, true.   :-[

However, let me correct myself ... that way does sound like improper English typical of computer and electronics manuals.  I feel an improved way would be...   ;D

Quote from: Matt on June 28, 2006, 07:03:09 pm
Trees scroll just like lists.  This tree even holds more than 3.5 lines at a time.

Excellent.  I suspected as much, but wanted to check.  I have seen dumber things happen...  In that case however, this way would be much improved.
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JimH

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2006, 08:32:58 pm »
No harm, glynor.  It was funny, I thought.  It's just that there is a little truth in what you said, and that Matt's wife teaches English as a Second Language.  Also, we're from Minnesota.  Oof da, hot dish, youbetcha, etc.
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2006, 08:38:41 pm »
I figured...  ;D

It really was a bit harsh though.

It just made me think of SO many computer motherboard manuals I've read.  Made me laugh at first, but then I had to sit there for like 5 minutes to come up with anything that didn't sound all messed up myself!  I think I was just attached to the "Fix and Remove broken Links" with the "Include" (as opposed to exclude) network files option.

Just funny how your mind fixates on one proper way of looking at things sometimes for no good reason at all....
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gpvillamil

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2006, 01:44:57 am »
Well, why not use nouns to refer to things, and verbs to refer to processes. So call it "Import Media in Background".

Also check this - in the action window the title says "Importing Media", but underneath it says "Adding files to library" - so are we talking media, or files?

Don't want to sound nit-picky, but stuff like this can be a stumbling block for new users. A friend of mine stayed in my apartment for 3 weeks, very intelligent guy, Java programmer with many years of experience, and he gave up on Media Center in complete frustration -  mostly because of stuff like that. He is used to working in environments where things are very precisely specified.

Actually I'll post his comments in another thread.
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bennyd

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2006, 02:50:54 am »
Watch Folders
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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2006, 03:17:35 am »
If I had to choose I'd find a way to keep "Otto" Does it have different meanings in different places? Probably. So?

"Let Otto watch your media locations for changes"

Clear enough to me. Especially if it is listed along with other library config options. If you are going to add folders, tell me before and give me an option.

Everything does not have to be cold, precise, clinical. Certain items/functions, sure.
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Doof

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2006, 10:11:40 am »
I like Otto. But like I said earlier, I also liked Hairstyle and mini-me. I like a little humor in my apps.

Like Winamp had the "Thinger". That always cracked me up.

When MC switched to Theater View and Mini View, it started feeling a little stuffy in here.

So if you want to go the IBM route, then "Watch Folders" is probably the best.
But if you want to go the Apple route, then Otto's your man.
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KingSparta

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2006, 10:56:08 am »
Quote
it started feeling a little stuffy in here.

From Time To Time It Does, I have noticed it also.
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2006, 11:08:09 am »
Quote from: Doof on June 29, 2006, 10:11:40 am
When MC switched to Theater View and Mini View, it started feeling a little stuffy in here.

It's really completely absurdly silly, but "MEGA ME" and "Mini Me" (and Hairstyle too I guess, though I don't know if I noticed it then) are the biggest reason I didn't buy MJ7 when I looked it over way back in the day.  As I said... It's stupid, and (I agree) somewhat stuffy, but sometimes software needs to be a little corporatized to appeal to the common denominator.  Whimsical names have a lot of kitschy charm, but don't feel very professional...

Sometimes it's all about first impressions, even if they're bad ones.   ::)

As far as Apple... If you actually use their products, you see that they don't give the controls within the product whimsical names -- just the products themselves.  Heck, even the names aren't that whimsical (they just add an "i" to the beginning of a bunch of them or a "Pro" to the end).

Besides, as I mentioned earlier.... "teh Steve" can get away with it because he's protected by his RDF.
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KingSparta

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2006, 11:19:30 am »
Quote
Whimsical names have a lot of kitschy charm, but don't feel very professional...

I agree, and i think that was one reason for the change.

If you remember there was a jukebox on a surfboard.

But there could be two things "the Product" and conduct in "The forum". not only for J river and co, but members too.

The forum is an extension of the product and company and if other companies want to do business with the company they do look into all areas of a company to include the forum.

And by the way: I think "Auto Import" Should Be Used, It Tells You What It Does "Import" And Is Done When? "Automatically"

"Otto" Tells You Nothing and has no real meaning people can relate to.
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jgreen

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2006, 11:35:08 am »
I think the icon for otto ought to be a Weimeraner with a handlebar mustache.
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Doof

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2006, 11:56:43 am »
Quote from: KingSparta on June 29, 2006, 11:19:30 am
And by the way: I think "Auto Import" Should Be Used, It Tells You What It Does "Import" And Is Done When? "Automatically"

Except that Importing isn't all it's doing. It's also removing dead links and updating the library to reflect tag changes, etc. In that sense, Watch Folders seems to more closely indicate what's happening. Auto Importing is just one of the things that are being done with those Watched Folders.

And when I said "stuffy" above, I meant that MC kind of lost a little bit of its charm when it switched to the more professional sounding names.

Quote from: glynor on June 29, 2006, 11:08:09 am
It's really completely absurdly silly, but "MEGA ME" and "Mini Me" (and Hairstyle too I guess, though I don't know if I noticed it then) are the biggest reason I didn't buy MJ7 when I looked it over way back in the day. As I said... It's stupid, and (I agree) somewhat stuffy, but sometimes software needs to be a little corporatized to appeal to the common denominator. Whimsical names have a lot of kitschy charm, but don't feel very professional...

In a world where MC is competing against products named MediaMonkey, I think they can afford a little Hairstyle now and then. Show some personality, you know? But I agree about the professionalism thing. Those things never bothered me when I was evaluating MJ7, but then I came from the Winamp world where llama's were getting their asses whipped by "thingers". :P

BTW - Hairstyle (aka Theater View) wasn't around in the MJ7 days.
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2006, 01:09:49 pm »
Quote from: Doof on June 29, 2006, 11:56:43 am
Except that Importing isn't all it's doing. It's also removing dead links and updating the library to reflect tag changes, etc. In that sense, Watch Folders seems to more closely indicate what's happening. Auto Importing is just one of the things that are being done with those Watched Folders.

And when I said "stuffy" above, I meant that MC kind of lost a little bit of its charm when it switched to the more professional sounding names.

I agree completely.  Especially re. the "Watch(ed) Folders" comment.

Even in regards to the charm thing.  I guess I'm just trying to look at it from JRiver's corporate point of view.  They have more customers (and customers-to-be) than us end users.

Quote from: Doof on June 29, 2006, 11:56:43 am
In a world where MC is competing against products named MediaMonkey, I think they can afford a little Hairstyle now and then. Show some personality, you know? But I agree about the professionalism thing. Those things never bothered me when I was evaluating MJ7, but then I came from the Winamp world where llama's were getting their asses whipped by "thingers". :P

That just sounds.... dirty.

Quote from: Doof on June 29, 2006, 11:56:43 am
BTW - Hairstyle (aka Theater View) wasn't around in the MJ7 days.

I thought so, but I wasn't sure.  Oh, and King... The Jukebox riding the surfboard?  I had trouble with that too...

I just remember being so torn.  During the trial I remember thinking ... "This application seems to be really powerful and to offer almost exactly what I want, it just doesn't seem very polished."  (That, and it didn't handle video back then which was one of my requirements.)  In the end I walked away (but I came back).
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Doof

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2006, 01:19:56 pm »
MJ7 handled video. It was the sole reason I picked MJ7 over anything else.
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KingSparta

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2006, 01:31:44 pm »
I looked at MJ5 and Went Back To MM And Real Jukebox, MJ6 Was Where They Thru Out Some Chum For Me To Eat, Mostly because MM And Real Jukebox Could Not Handle The Mount Of Files I Have (And They Still Can't). They Also Did Not Have Some Of The Options MJ And Now MC Has.

I Guess "Watched Folders" Would Fit Better If Otto Has More Than Just Importing. but that also does not account for fixing things like cover art and thumbnails.

But all the wacky names, Microsoft also Has there names, "Longhorn", "Vista", "Windows Live One Care", among others

You have also wacky and weird skins, and not just a normal straight forward player for the tato, nose ring, tongue piercing and multi color (non natural) hair crowd.

Disclaimer: Ideas Expressed are note the opinion of JRiver.
Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa Blaa
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2006, 01:42:00 pm »
Quote from: Doof on June 29, 2006, 01:19:56 pm
MJ7 handled video. It was the sole reason I picked MJ7 over anything else.

Ahhh... It was probably earlier then that I first looked at it.  I kept coming back, everytime I saw a new version out, and then finally took the plunge with 8 (I think ... It might have been 9).

Up until then I too was using Real Jukebox.  [shudder]  I never considered MM for more than a few days.  It couldn't even ever import all of my files without crashing...

That's why I kept coming back to JRiver actually.  I hated Real so badly (the company and the application)...
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GHammer

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2006, 01:45:10 pm »
"Examine your selected (and/or default) folders for changed, deleted or additional audio/video/image file and/or metadata associated with them."

Just isn't catchy.

And, if you're looking at MC you probably have an idea of what is going to happen.

MS doesn't take great pains with their function and yet it works and people are able to fathom how to add and remove watched items.

I suppose everyone was against 'Clippy' too.
Um, nevermind...

As for the Apple references, I left the Jobs church behind somewhere around the IIe when even IBM was a more open, friendlier operation. Haven't looked back. Tell me, do they still inisist a one button mouse is the way to go?

If I REALLY wanted an Apple application, I'd likely get a Mac and use iTunes.
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Doof

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2006, 01:54:23 pm »
Ok. The whole IBM, Apple reference was a nod to Apple's "1984" commercial. I didn't mean it to reflect the current state of things. Even if those stupid Mac commercials are trying to convince people that Mac's are young and hip and PCs are half-retarded fat guys.
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2006, 01:55:29 pm »
Quote from: GHammer on June 29, 2006, 01:45:10 pm
I suppose everyone was against 'Clippy' too.
Um, nevermind...



Quote from: GHammer on June 29, 2006, 01:45:10 pm
As for the Apple references, I left the Jobs church behind somewhere around the IIe when even IBM was a more open, friendlier operation. Haven't looked back. Tell me, do they still inisist a one button mouse is the way to go?

If I REALLY wanted an Apple application, I'd likely get a Mac and use iTunes.

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/
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GHammer

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2006, 02:19:44 pm »
Quote from: glynor on June 29, 2006, 01:55:29 pm


http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/
Ah, so they do. Dressed up in fine clothes, but a one button mouse that would be hell to operate. Squeezable indeed. Touch sensitive? One of the first things I turn off on a laptop is the lousy mousepad because of that. Heehee, gotta love 'em.

I'll stick with simple a 4-way scrolling wheel and buttons.
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glynor

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2006, 02:30:02 pm »
I was quite skeptical at first, but I've actually used one of them and it's suprisingly well designed.  Works just like any other "regular" mouse but with the cool new side squeeze and "360-rolling" functionality.  I too hate the mousepads on most laptops (especially Dells).  Apple's newer ones are probably the best ones I've tried though...

I, personally, still have plain-old Microsoft IntelliMice on all of my Macs though.
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modelmaker

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Re: Otto's Name
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2006, 03:21:32 pm »
Watch Folders makes sense to me.

But then I liked the jukebox/surfboard thingy, so what do I know. ;D
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