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Author Topic: MC For Laptop DJing  (Read 8941 times)

glynor

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MC For Laptop DJing
« on: March 13, 2007, 08:48:11 am »

I received this personal message from the new user Travis regarding using MC12 for DJing using a Laptop.  After discussing it a bit, I realized that this information could likely be quite useful to other users as well, so I decided to post it here...  So...

First, Travis's initial question:
Quote
Hello!  My name is Travis and I just downloaded the 30-day trial of MC last night.  I do some DJing a few nights a month and had heard from some DJ friends that MC works very well as DJ software.  I saw that you do a lot of DJing so I thought I'd ask if there are any threads on this forum dedicated to DJing dances/weddings etc.?  I certainly don't mind figuring things out for myself but it would be awesome if a thread existed that talked about creating multiple zones for cueing songs - setting up different output devices - creating/editing/saving playlists etc.

If you happen to know of any threads like that please let me know.

Thanks in advance!!

-Travis
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glynor

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2007, 08:50:58 am »

Hey Travis!  Welcome to Interact.

I certainly do use MC for DJing.  Primarily at weddings and parties, but I've done some work at a local bar as well.  It really is a great tool for these purposes...

Unfortunately, there is no "one thread to rule them all" when it comes to this.  Some things I'd look into though are (in no particular order):

  • multiple zones -- especially synchronizing zones and using separate sound cards
  • detached display -- not sure if you use projectors or TVs for a full "multimedia show" but MC + DJing + G-Force + Projector == impressive.
  • any posts by the user Mastiff on multiple zones

My general setup goes like this:

1. I have a Laptop (a MacBook Pro running Windows XP via Bootcamp -- though that doesn't really matter) with a M-Audio Transit external USB audio device.  My media lives on a 500 GB external drive, until they finally get some bigger laptop drives available.

2. I set MC up with two zones.  I name one "external" and one "internal" and set them to the appropriate output devices (one for each).  I make sure both are set to appropriate DSP and crossfade settings.  I happen to like to set both to System Volume, but some people prefer using the Internal volume control.  To me, too many volume controls can get confusing.

3. I generally run both of these outputs out into my little Mackie 1202 mixer (a great, portable mixer BTW).  Then I generally set the headphone/control room output from the mixer to monitor the muted channels.  That way, while music is playing using one of the zones (say "external" for example), I can simply mute the inputs in the mixer for the other zone ("internal") and build my playlist using my headphones.

4. Build a short initial playlist ahead of time.  Start playing that on the External Zone.  Then switch to the muted (but audible through my headphones) Internal Zone and start building my next playlist fragment.

5. When the current playlist for the "external" zone gets near it's end, I stop any playback on the Internal Zone's playlist (make sure to do this before you un-mute), fade-out the playing "external zone" (via the mixer), un-mute the "internal zone" on my mixer, start playback on that list, and fade it up.

6. Then, I mute "external" on the mixer and start building another fragment in that zone on MC.  Switch back and forth as needed, rinse, and repeat.  This makes it very nice to "work ahead" but still be able to move my playlists with the "feel" of the crowd (and honor any special requests in a reasonable period of time).

Another way to do the same thing, if you don't have a mixer available (or if your mixer doesn't let you monitor muted input channels over the phones) is:

EDIT: This method is nice because it is a bit simpler and it doesn't require a mixer.  If you don't need a microphone (or if the house system handles that on its own), this is probably the way to go!

1. Plug your headphones directly into the onboard audio on the laptop.  Set up a "Headphone Zone" and a "Soundsystem Zone".

2. Build your initial list ahead of time and start it playing on the "Soundsystem Zone"

3. Switch MC to the Headphone Zone and use it to build the "next hunk" of the playlist as you want.  (I generally build the list in a "temp" playlist I have that I empty out each time.)

4. Once you get a reasonably sized hunk built, simply select all the files and right-click --> Send to --> Play (Soundsystem Zone) --> Add.  This will send the files to the Playing Now list on the currently playing "external zone", adding them in order and set to play after the current songs end.  You can also choose "Add (As Next To Play)" if you want to interrupt your previously running list for a second and then go back to it (I use this for requests a lot).

5.  Then I just delete all those files from my temp playlist, switch back to the Headphone Zone, and start building the next fragment.  This way you can easily build fragments a little at a time, and listen to whatever you want over the phones without the audience hearing what you're up to!

Again.  Welcome.  The forum is very friendly (it constantly surprises me how many genuinely nice people there are on it).  Ask any questions you want, and enjoy!
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glynor

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2007, 08:51:38 am »

Quote
Thank you so much for the fast and in-depth response.  I would certainly be using the second scenario if I decide to use MC.  I just DJ at local swing dances.  There are about 4-5 regular venues all of which have existing sound equipment so all I do is plug my laptop in and I'm ready to go (I use an external USB sound card from Turtle Beach).  I just bought a PC laptop with a 120gb hard drive which will be ample for me for quite some time (I only put songs I will DJ on my laptop along with a few other favorites).  Previous to owning my own laptop I was borrowing my girlfriend's (having gotten totally sick and tired of using CDs).  But since that was a temporary solution I only loaded a few hundred songs that I knew quite well onto her hard drive.  So I really didn't have any need to listen to a song before playing it.  I have been using WMP 11 and would just drag and drop files from my library into the current playlist.  Sounds like MC does not have drag and drop from one zone to the other?  I guess I could live without that.  Will MC show how many songs are in a playlist along with total duration?  I've found that to be helpful in other programs.  Really my needs are pretty simple as far as actually DJing at a gig.  So long as I can listen before playing and add songs on the fly then I'll be fine.  Really don't care about cross fading at swing dances where most of the music is big band swing and stuff like that.  Do you use the BPM analyzer at all?  If so, how accurate is it?

A lot of swing DJs either use two instances of Winamp or a combination of Winamp and iTunes but I like the all-in-one possibilities of MC.  I'll play around with it a little more tonight - my next gig is a week from Wed.

Cheers!!

-Travis

And I'll be responding a little later... Gotta run now.  Others might feel free to respond as well.   ;)
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glynor

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2007, 01:19:45 pm »

Quote
Thank you so much for the fast and in-depth response.  I would certainly be using the second scenario if I decide to use MC.  I just DJ at local swing dances.

You're welcome!  Gotta love swing dancing.  My wife, I, and a friend all go to local contra dances once a month here (similar but not the same of course).  Love it.  Luckily, we have the luxury of live music for those though...

Quote
So I really didn't have any need to listen to a song before playing it.  I have been using WMP 11 and would just drag and drop files from my library into the current playlist.  Sounds like MC does not have drag and drop from one zone to the other?  I guess I could live without that.

You can, but that doesn't mean it's the best way.  Just to be clear though... The whole point of Zones is to allow your computer to play two (or more) different things at the same time, and to direct that output to the proper devices independently.  If you still don't need to listen to anything before you play it, then you won't really need to use multiple zones at all.

However, you can certainly drag-drop from one Zone to another.  It just works a little differently than what you might be thinking.  In MC, you can "split the view" and essentially create two new views on the right part of the program which work independently.  The two views, once split, really work completely independently of one another (the tree controls whichever view you last "clicked on").  You can certainly put one of these "split views" in one zone and the other in the other zone and drag-drop between them.  The Split View feature can be found at: View --> Split View.  Play with it a bit and you'll see.  I find drag-dropping to not always be so precise though, especially when working with a laptop trackpad.

Quote
Will MC show how many songs are in a playlist along with total duration?  I've found that to be helpful in other programs.

Yes.  See the picture (click on it to enlarge):



Down at the bottom see the text reading "58 files (303.5 MB - 04:14:05)"?



MC will always show this text in the "info area" of the bottom toolbar.  It will show the information for whatever file or files you have selected at that moment.  If you have a whole playlist selected (you chose a playlist from the Tree on the left but didn't actually choose an individual file) then it shows the full run-time for that list.  There are other ways to see this same info (the Tag window will also act as an info dialog if you have a playlist or more than one file selected), but that's the most easily accessible.

Incidentally, that above image is an example of what I described above.  I have MC set to 2 split views, in column mode.  I have a playlist visible in the left hand of the two views, and the "Playing Now" playlist visible in the right hand view.  You can easily drag-drop from one to the other, and the two views can be in two (or more) different zones.

With MC, there's always at least 2-3 ways to do something.   ;)

Quote
Do you use the BPM analyzer at all?  If so, how accurate is it?

I don't really use it for anything real.  I do analyze my files and use it as a real "basic" indicator of tempo, but I wouldn't really be one to speak to the accuracy.  I'm sure people have discussed it though... Try searching for "analyze audio" or "BPM" on the forums.

Quote
A lot of swing DJs either use two instances of Winamp or a combination of Winamp and iTunes but I like the all-in-one possibilities of MC.

I suspect you'll end up amazed at what you can accomplish.  Enjoy!
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JaysonG

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 10:03:19 pm »

ooh how did you change the split view to 3 columns?
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JaysonG

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 10:34:35 pm »

n/m just updated MC
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JONCAT

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 11:11:28 pm »

Glynor,

It's late and I should be in bed; I'm sick so sorry if you covered this already but.....

I imagine using Playlists for DJing would be ideal, unfortunately sequence changes during playback are not recognized by MC. You have to stop playback. When a DJ decides to change the order on the fly that's great but it would be great if you could shift around the playlist; this would be akin to cueing up a few records and CDs and digging into your collection for more stuff. Currently we're stuck with the sequence in the playlist, and we know that the last crime a DJ can commit is stopping the music.


EDIT - okay i can 't hit the sack yet...I see your solution is to use Zones to work with playlists...nice.

EDIT 2 - And I forgot about Play Next. It works well. You can choose Play Next from your currently playing playlist and it will resume where it left off in the sequence. I still have the intuition that Playlists should respond the way Playing Now responds to sequence shifting on the fly.
DC
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yooz

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2007, 08:06:59 am »

You described how to set up multizones for dj-ing..why is nobody asking for a direkt "onebutton feature" for prehearing over second zone...like i did ask two years ago...like I did one year ago...

The only reason I'm not using MC in my pub is that the stuff working there is always confused with the concept of two zones and allways looking...what the hell is playing now..if a "backround playlist" is working...switching the zones again and again

The real sad thing about this is that the technical background to integrate such a feature and make MC a DJing tool is done by the programmer since MC10 ...why not do this little more work and give us a headphone prelisten direct tool?! Just one little change and they will serve a complete marketsegment of pubs/bars/cafes to make them work wit MC.

Most of my friends also running some shops/bars are using still winamp without prelistening to the archive..or using Traktor with autoplay that is much to complex and dossent support special german characters.

So I come to another question...there are international customers using MC ..it's wonderful translated to german for example...Why isn't there the possib. to feed the needs of the internat. users by implementing the feature that not only "The" is different sorted in front of..Please give us the possibility to give a list to the programm like "Der, Die,Das" in german or "Le..." in french or "La..." in spanish?


thx
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glynor

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2007, 11:20:56 am »

So I come to another question...there are international customers using MC ..it's wonderful translated to german for example...Why isn't there the possib. to feed the needs of the internat. users by implementing the feature that not only "The" is different sorted in front of..Please give us the possibility to give a list to the programm like "Der, Die,Das" in german or "Le..." in french or "La..." in spanish?

I don't know how difficult that'd be to implement, but that's a great idea!
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Travis

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2007, 10:27:10 pm »

Incidentally, that above image is an example of what I described above.  I have MC set to 2 split views, in column mode.  I have a playlist visible in the left hand of the two views, and the "Playing Now" playlist visible in the right hand view.  You can easily drag-drop from one to the other, and the two views can be in two (or more) different zones.

That image is pretty much how I would like my setup to be because it would be very similar to how my WMP setup was and, thus, a very easy transition.

In the image you so kindly provided, there are three columns.  Are all three columns in the same zone?  I would assume that the column on the far right is in a different zone.  I have played around with the split views a little and have successfully created a "Live" zone and a "Headphone" (for previewing) zone and have assigned specific sound cards to each.  Now I just need to be able to view them simultaneously.  Using the image you posted as an example, I would like the far left and middle columns to be my main library - that would be the "Headphone" zone.  Then the "Playing Now" column would be on the far right in the "Live" zone. 

I think I'm getting pretty close to getting the setup I would like to start with - just need a little help on viewing multiple zones at once.  I'm going to do some more snooping around now - perhaps I'll find the answer :)

Thanks for all the help!!
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djstarr

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2007, 03:46:55 pm »

I imagine using Playlists for DJing would be ideal, unfortunately sequence changes during playback are not recognized by MC. You have to stop playback. When a DJ decides to change the order on the fly that's great but it would be great if you could shift around the playlist; this would be akin to cueing up a few records and CDs and digging into your collection for more stuff. Currently we're stuck with the sequence in the playlist, and we know that the last crime a DJ can commit is stopping the music.


EDIT - okay i can 't hit the sack yet...I see your solution is to use Zones to work with playlists...nice.

EDIT 2 - And I forgot about Play Next. It works well. You can choose Play Next from your currently playing playlist and it will resume where it left off in the sequence. I still have the intuition that Playlists should respond the way Playing Now responds to sequence shifting on the fly.
DC

Hey all!

I'm a friend of Travis' and a fellow swing DJ and am finally moving over to laptop dj'ing.  The trend is starting where venues are not providing CDs since almost everybody has a laptop to DJ off of [but I digress].

Anyway, I tried to DJ on Monday assuming realtime editing of playlists would work.    Apparently it doesn't eh?  Once you create a playlist you are stuck with it?   DJ'ing from CDs I can obviously change the order of music as fast as it takes me to swap out a CD and select the proper track.    It's really crucial to be able to change your mind during the middle of an existing song if you get inspiration from the crowd or if you decide to keep a certain tempo etc.

I will play around with some of these hints but basically once I create a playlist I'm stuck eh? 

And I will read the response from glynor on Headphone vs. Soundsystem zone with the Add as next to play since I think that is what I will end up needing to master.

One more question, is there a way to keep the current playlist playing until you specifically stop it?  I had trouble surfing around the UI while DJ'ing, I made the mistake of double clicking another playlist and that started the new playlist and stopped the song I was playing in the middle.  [luckily I was at an informal dance so I could get on the mike and tell them how fancy my new DJ software was......]
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glynor

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2007, 06:23:29 pm »

The Playing Now playlist is the "live" playlist.  Any changes you make there will actually affect playback.  The Playlists are fixed once you start playing them (because the contents of them are simply copied over to the special Playing Now list).

Check in the Wiki for the Playing Now FAQ I wrote up for more info:  http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/How_Playing_Now_Works
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djstarr

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2007, 05:40:59 pm »

Thanks Glynor!

I've started working with the "Playing Now" list and it works as expected; I can go delete a song in the list and voila! it won't play; and I like the options to add to playing now at the end or as next to play from the library or another playlist.

One more question if you don't mind - how did you get your split views to go to different zones?  I set up a split view, and set up two zones, but when I toggle between zones both views go to the new zone.   I've looked around at the menus but haven't found anything yet.

Thanks!
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soongsc

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2022, 06:41:03 am »

For some reason, I was not aware of this thread.  But I do have a few questions regarding DJing Tango milongas.

Normally in a milonga, music are in three or four songs per group which have similar musicality and quite often of the same band.  Whenever DJing for a milonga, the idea is to always have these moved around in a group together, which we call a “tanda”.  In between tandas, there is a different type of music to separate the tandas which we call “cortina” (if I remember correctly).

What I would like to be able to do is always have be able to shift a “tanda” around the playlist as another “tanda” is playing, so that there is better interactive control of the mood in a milonga.
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JimH

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Re: MC For Laptop DJing
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2022, 07:19:44 am »

MC has a feature called Linked Tracks.  You can use it to always play a set of tracks together. 
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