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[brewabeer]

Hi everyone, I'd appreciate some honest video advice from MC users.

I'm currently using Media Jukebox, and I love it - except that I find it really unreliable with video. I have tried all kinds of codec packs etc, and it still only imports about a quarter of my video collection, and it fails to properly play about a third of those.

So I am considering upgrading to Media Centre, but before I try it (I'm a bit worried about opening a new can of worms and creating conflicts with existing apps and Media Jukebox) I'd like to get some input from other users - mainly, is it good?!

Does it work with Real Alternative and Quicktime Alternative video codecs?

Do you find it able to play most of your video clips without problems?

I should make it clear that I'm not a mulimedia geek, I don't even really understand codecs except that they cause problems, I just want my media application to make it all work for me   

MJ is awesome for music, I love the file management interface, but like I said I find it really struggles with video. I'd hate to download and install Media Centre and find that it's no better and it's messed up my existing stuff!

[johnnyboy]

Its definitely quite a lot better although whether it would work with your video's and your codec's is a guess.

In theory it's totally compatible with  Jukebox and it has a trial of 30 days so you could easily test and find out.

I personally use VLC as my default video player because it will play everything and for watching movies etc with I use WMP because it has a nice GUI for controlling the video as i watch it.

I dont use MC for video's because to quickly skim through short clips its too heavy weight an app and for proper video watching it just lacks a clean easy to use GUI.

[brewabeer]

Thanks johnnyboy, I think you are right, I will just need to 'suck it and see' like you suggest.

I use ALShow as a player only, it is pretty reliable and comes complete with a bunch of codecs and has a neat way of downloading and installing any missing ones.

The trouble is that I've been spoilt by MJ, and I really want that playlist and library management control over my videos, and I haven't found any other apps that can do that.

I have hundreds of short films, cartoons, music videos and the like which I like to just create a playlist for and let run on the screen in another room - but it is really frustrating when videos which work perfectly with other apps refuse to play in MJ, and even worse is that MJ won't just suppress the errors and skip to the next clip, instead it plays just the sound with that white screen of death.

I'll probably install MC on the weekend, and no doubt I'll post back here afterwards 

[Alex B]

... In theory it's totally compatible with  Jukebox ...

Only the MJ database is upwards compatible (MJ does not work with an MC database). MJ and MC cannot be installed properly at the same time.

brewabeer,

You should backup your MJ data (library backup, cover art folder) and uninstall MJ before installing MC or try on another PC that does not have MJ installed.

[Doof]

FWIW, I have over 800 video files in my MC library, and they all play just fine. No RealVideo, though. I wouldn't let Real anywhere near my PC.

[NickM]

I have (somewhat less than Doof) 400 DVD's and all play fine in MC with the codec's from WinDVD installed ( That means you have to buy and install WinDVD.... )
nick

[hit_ny]

Why can't the codecs used by VLC player be used with MC ?

..it has to be, hands down the vid player that's free and plays anything.

[glynor]

VLC builds the codecs into the player application itself (which is good for cross platform support, but not very extensible).  It uses mostly the FFMPEG libavcodec which is also available in VFW format through the FFDSHOW DirectShow filter (it also has some quasi-legal DRM breaking stuff built in, but those aren't really properly codecs).  MC, like WiMP and Media Player Classic, uses a DirectShow playback engine, so you need to have codecs that can plug into DirectShow.  Any video that can play in WiMP should play in MC.

I have roughly 14,000 video files in my standard "home" library.  Mostly XviD compressed AVIs, MPEG-1 files, MPEG-2 transport files, and MP4s.  I also have a smattering of OGMs and MKVs (mostly x264 or XviD compressed) and a handful of MOVs (mostly MPEG4 or Apple-h264 compressed).  MC can play them all.  MC is actually a very competant player.  I like it mostly for it's organizational prowess (important when you have that many files to deal with).

I do use RealAlternative (through MC 11.1) for those 15-20 Real Video files that I don't want to delete and can't easily convert.  I own the paid version of Quicktime Pro though (I use Final Cut Pro for work so I sorta have to), so I don't use Quicktime Alternative and I can't speak to that.  In order for RealAlternative to work with MC, you need to let it install Media Player Classic and associate the Real formats with it.  Otherwise, MC complains that it can't find the Real Player installed.

Generally, if you only want to play back video, the newer builds of FFDSHOW will be all you need for the vast majority of video files out there.  You may also need one or both of the "Alternatives" for those proprietaty video formats.  Check out my comments on this thread:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=34589.msg236155#msg236155

[brewabeer]

Ok, I installed MC on the weekend, and I thought I'd post my results here for anyone who is wondering.

I'm actually really impressed, the thumbnail view blew me away with its cleverness and after 2 days I'd already hate to be without it!

I didn't uninstall MJ but I have created new libraries for MC.

My videos are all of varying sizes, lengths and qualities and from a variety of sources. All are playable in at least one application although I haven't found an app yet that will play all of them. Media Player Classic and ALShow seem to come closest, but MC does pretty well.

MC imported 3887/3949 total video clips (98.4%), the breakdown being:

.ASF: 76/76 (100%)
.AVI: 345/360 (95.8%)
.MOV: 37/37 (100%)
.MPG: 2536/2548 (99.5%)
.WMV: 892/892 (100%)
.RM: 0/35 (0%)
.QT: 1/1 (100%)

Of all files imported, 100 movies (2.6%) failed to display thumbnails or play properly and were removed manually:

.AVI 47/345 (13.6%)
.MOV 2/37 (5.4%)
.MPG 25/2536 (1.0%)
.WMV 26/892 (2.9%)

(All of these files were checked in Media Player Classic and seemed fine).

Of the files that failed to be imported, the following were actually identified by MC as failed to import:

.AVI 15/15 (100%)
.MPG 5/12 (41.7%)
.RM 0/35 (0%)

Which leaves the following files unidentified and 'missing in action':

.MPG 7/2548 (0.3%)
.RM 35/35 (100%)

I have Real Alternative installed, but apparently MC is unable to recognise or use its codecs. I refuse to install Real's poxware so this is a bit disappointing.


To put this another way, ignoring the RM files for now, MC was able to find, import and then subsequently successfully play the following:

Total: 3658/3914 (92.6%)
.ASF 75/76 (98.7%)
.AVI 295/360 (81.9%)
.MOV 34/37 (91.9%)
.MPG 2388/2548 (93.7%)
.WMV 865/892 (97.0%)
.QT 1/1 (100%)


This is pretty good IMO, given that many of these files are not in perfect order, although it's a bit frustrating to know that other apps can succeed where MC has failed. Mildly annoying also is the fact that had I not done this analysis, I wouldn't know that 7 mystery MPG files are sitting somewhere in my video collection, unloved and unplayed. Even so, there is no easy to way for me to find them - short of manually comparing folder contents between windows and MC, and narrowing down the field folder-by-folder, as MC refuses to even acknowledge they exist.

On the whole though I'm actually really happy with it, it's by far the best application I've found for managing a large video collection and I don't mind weeding out a few 'suspect' files if it can be done easily (the lack of a thumbnail being a pretty good guide) in order to create reliable playlists. I realise its probably a bit soon for me to offer a 'review' but these are my initial thoughts:


Positives

After 2 days it's already indispensable

Easy to use, especially after using Media Jukebox or iTunes

Video thumbnail view is incredible, and amazingly useful - especially for music videos and short clips. Doesn't just use first frame - usually skips opening seconds.

Plays most clips, and easy to 'weed out' problem files to create a reliable library (if you can see a thumbnail, it will play)

All the field editing and playlist options that you love from MJ, made even better

Easy to spot duplicates even if different file size / date / name etc



Bugs / annoyances (please let me know if there's a solution to any of these):

Unable to play Real Media (without first installing the festering pox that is Real Player)

Struggles with some video files that other apps can play

Playback does not disable Windows monitor power control

Cannot seem to 'maximise' video window in external monitor (window must be resized manually, leaving title bar visible at all times)

Cannot delete or perform advanced actions on files from 'playing now' or playlist view (this annoyed me a bit with MJ too - it is easy to use playlists to narrow down groups of files to 'work' with (ie, remove duplicates etc), but you have to go back to the full library view and try to find the files in question to actually perform any actions or delete them)

Episodes of a TV series generally have identical 'opening credits' thumbnails.




Anyway, I hope this data and my thoughts prove useful to anyone else wondering whether MC is worth downloading - it is 

[glynor]

Unable to play Real Media (without first installing the festering pox that is Real Player)

Struggles with some video files that other apps can play

Cannot seem to 'maximise' video window in external monitor (window must be resized manually, leaving title bar visible at all times)

Just to address these things:

Real Media files definitely play for me using Real Alternative and MC.  As I said, for some reason you have to let the Real Alternative installer install and associate itself with Media Player Classic (even if you already have it installed elsewhere).  What error message does MC give you?

I have not had problems with MC on files that could be played in MPC or WiMP.  I do occasionally find files that are badly malformed that can be played by VLC and mplayer that can't be played through MC, but they are rare (and I typically just fix them).  Perhaps the developers would be interested in file examples?

Regarding "Cannot seem to 'maximise' video window in external monitor (window must be resized manually, leaving title bar visible at all times)" - You certainly can.  Simply double click on the Playing Now's display window to enter full screen mode (or use the menu choice under View).  To assign the full screen view to a different monitor, simply Right Click in the Display Area and choose Display Settings.  In the dialog that appears, you can select which monitor to use for Full Screen mode (and specify a resolution as well).

Set the Control Bars mode to Auto-Hide bars while you're in there as well.

[brewabeer]

Hi Glynor, thanks for your advice.

You're absolutely right about the external monitor thing, it works like a charm - it even adjusts itself automatically to the desktop size with a double-click, so it doesn't matter whether I am using the TV output or the VGA monitor output - I don't have to change any settings. Obviously windows detects the monitor on reboot and MC takes its cue from that, very neat.

I have uninstalled and reinstalled Real Alternative, and found this. MC is still unable to find or import them, but if I 'open with' MC they will play - providing MC is closed! If MC is already open then I get no result at all. So technically I could import my RM files one at a time, closing MC between each - but this seems a bit odd! Also, I have no thumbnails for the RM files I've tried - do you?

I think one problem may be that I've had to download so many codecs over the last few weeks through several apps that I may be running into conflicts now. Any suggestions on how best to fix this up?!

Cheers,
BaB

[brewabeer]

OK, I think I've fixed the 'Real' issue - all my Real Media files had the extension .rm. I have renamed them to .ram, and MC has now found them and imported them.

I still don't have thumbnails for them, I'd be interested to know if this is fixable?

Speaking of thumbnails, some of my wmv thumbnails seem to have changed - is this possible? There is a whole group together whose thumbnail image has come from an early part of the file, thereby catching an opening title - I was pretty sure that they weren't like that yesterday!

It's possible that they were among some files that I moved and re-imported, so it may be that MC has re-generated the thumbs - but it's strange that they've changed?

Is there any way to change a video thumbnail or control how it is generated?

[Deivit]

Is there any way to change a video thumbnail or control how it is generated?

Start playing the video clip, press pause, right-click menu there is an option like "use screen grab as thumbnail", or something to that effect (I'm not at home now).

Hope it helps.

[brewabeer]

That's excellent!

It works - but only for files that don't already have a thumbnail image. It doesn't seem to change a thumbnail image if there is already one present. I have tried to 'remove cover art' from the file but the original thumbnail pops back after about 2 seconds.

Not that this is a big problem, but have others found this to be the case too?

[wickesy]

Bugs / annoyances (please let me know if there's a solution to any of these):

Cannot delete or perform advanced actions on files from 'playing now' or playlist view (this annoyed me a bit with MJ too - it is easy to use playlists to narrow down groups of files to 'work' with (ie, remove duplicates etc), but you have to go back to the full library view and try to find the files in question to actually perform any actions or delete them)

Regarding this one - If you click on the file you want to delete, hold down the Shift key and then press Delete MC should pop up a menu giving you three choices (from memory) - Delete from library and hard drive, delete from library and send to Recycle Bin and delete from library only.

Hope that helps.

[brewabeer]

Another gem! That's really handy, thanks.

I've just been renaming the files in question to '_DEL' and deleting them later from the main library view, but that saves a lot of messing around.

 

[glynor]

OK, I think I've fixed the 'Real' issue - all my Real Media files had the extension .rm. I have renamed them to .ram, and MC has now found them and imported them.

Yeah... For some reason the extension RM isn't available in MC's file types list (under Tools --> Import Media --> Advanced).  RA and RV (for Audio and Video files respectively) are though, so I tend to rename them to the appropriate file type.

I'm fairly certain that the thumbnail generation does work for my Real Video files, but I'm not at that machine right now to check.  Try changing the extension on a handful of the files to RV and re-importing.  I'm wondering if MC isn't sure otherwise that the file is a video file (until it tries to render it) and doesn't try to generate the thumb.

Generally, I hate Real so much that I convert anything I can immediately (on the rare occasion that I end up with a Real-format file that I need).

As far as codec conflicts, that really can be a problem.  I try to keep my codec load on my "playback" machines to an absolute minimum for that exact reason.  On my machines that I use to create and recode media, I need a larger suite of codecs.  On my HTPC and my laptops (which are generally only used to playback media) I tend to only install:

1) RealAlternative
2) Quicktime Pro
3) Nero (which, other than being a great CD burning app, provides some nice codecs for MPEG-4 media)
4) ATI or nVidia filters (hardware dependant)
5) FFDSHOW

If you install FFDSHOW last, it will give you the option to "take control" of the appropriate media types that it can handle.  I tend to use it for basically everything that it can handle, which provides me with a consistant UI.  I also sometimes need to install the CCCP to handle those wonky MKV files (it also contains splitter filters for multi-stream AVI files).

For media authoring, I find the Gordian Knot Codec Pack contains basically all of the codecs I ever need (that or the above mentioned CCCP).  Since I never use it, I generally don't have the pack install DivX (I like XviD better and it's free).  Again, for playback only this isn't needed.  In fact, on both of my machines used for authoring I'm currently just using CCCP and the latest XviD build.

One big thing I strongly warn against, is using two specific (and unfortunately common) codec packs: Nimo and K-Lite.  Nimo is actually quite dangerous and installs some things that can break your system completely (and which can't be fixed without a complete nuke-pave reinstall).  K-Lite isn't as dangerous, but installs a bunch of codecs you don't need, which all do the same thing, and makes it very difficult to diagnose problems when they occur.

[brewabeer]

Thanks again Glynor.

I don't do any authoring at all, but I do have a fairly large collection of diverse clips collected over about 10 years so, so there are some real odd ones among them.

I tried using the .rv extension on those 'Real' files but MC wouldn't display the video at all so I've reverted to .ram which works (on my files at least). Like you I try to avoid the Realpox so I don't have too many of them.

Its likely that I have codec conflicts -  I have the K-lite codec pack installed, along with whatever Xvid, Real Alternative, QT Alternative, 'The Core Media Player' and ALShow have included or downoaded since.

I only reinstalled windows and ghosted everything a few weeks ago, so I'm pretty tempted to revert to a nice clean ghost and get rid of all the video apps I've messed with since then and see how I go using MC as the key player.

Is MC capable of fetching required codecs, or do I need to do this manually? If so, any tips on the best way to identify and find them (or an application that can do this)?

I would probably try and stick to:

Media Center
Real Alternative
QuickTime Alternative
Media Player Classic

and possibly give FFDSHOW a run based on your recommendation.

Is there a best sequence for installing? ie, start with MC or leave that until last?

[glynor]

The order isn't super important ... at least when it comes to MC.  I generally install MC early in my nuke-pave process.  When it comes to the codecs and filters, order does matter.  Generally, I install them in this rough order:

1) Hardware specific codecs and filters (along with the video card drivers).  This is mostly for ATI All-in-Wonder type cards, cards with VIVO (Video In Video Out) components, and TV Tuner cards.  If you aren't "capturing" video with your video hardware, then you just install the drivers.

2) Any codecs that I want to use for media creation and recoding.  Generally, just the latest XviD build from Koepi.  I usually do not want these to handle playback -- only encoding.  That's why I install them "early on" in the process.  Generally, things you install later in the timeline "take over" playback from those installed earlier.  If you don't want to create or re-encode video at all, then you do not need to install any codecs at all!

3) Next, I either install the CCCP or I install FFDSHOW (generally I just use the 20051129 build available on the FFDSHOW Wiki) and then the Haali Media Splitter.  There are newer builds of FFDSHOW available, but they aren't very stable in my experience.

In your case, I'd probably just install the CCCP.  It includes Haali, FFDSHOW, and all the other splitters and filters you would probably ever need for media playback except for RealAlternative and QuicktimeAlternative.  The other cool thing is that CCCP provides a program called CCCP Insurgent which will assist you in uninstalling all those "rogue" codecs you have lying around.  If you haven't installed the extremely obnoxious Nimo codec pack, you shouldn't really need to nuke-pave just to solve codec problems.  Just carefully follow the instructions and it should get you going.  If you still have trouble, follow their Troubleshooting Guide.  If, after doing all this, you find media that can be played in MPC but not in MC, come back here and post the details.  Usually the developers will have you send them a file example and get it fixed.

4) Install RealAlternative and Quicktime software.  If you use CCCP, take a quick look at these instructions.  However, for RealMedia to work with MC, you need to let RealAlternative install it's own copy of MPC for some reason.

[brewabeer]

Thanks again Glynor, that sounds like fantastic advice and I will probably run Insurgent and install the CCCP this weekend - hopefully that will clean up the codec situation well enough that I won't need to bother reghosting at this stage.

I'll let you know how I go - thanks again!