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[dcwebman]

I thought for sure this wasn't working as I expected and then I figured it out. I think.

I have a 2 monitor setup and thought that if I detach the display that it would be put on the display set in Display Settings, but it wasn't working. I then noticed the words "Full Screen" which I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere. After some playing around i finally figured out what was supposed to happen.

Issues/concerns:
- Change "Full Screen" to "Maximized Window" so it matches more of Windows terminology.
- Menu option says "Display Settings" but dialog that comes up is titled "Dialog Options". Change to be consistent.
- I had some programs displayed on Display 1 and something happened with me playing around with the settings of the Display Options box because suddenly I had no windows displayed on Display 1 and they were all on Display 2. I don't know why MC modified the other program's locations.

[RobOK]

- Change "Full Screen" to "Maximized Window" so it matches more of Windows terminology.

I think Maximized Window means a regular window structure (scroll bars, min and max buttons, tool bars, everything) filling the whole screen.   Full Screen term means get rid of the whole window and just show me the image or video or content (you can see this in MS Word, Firefox, and other media programs).  So I think Full Screen is actually the right term.

I only wish I had two monitors, so I can't comment on the meat of your post (programs moving between windows)

[dcwebman]

I was almost going to concede the "Maximized Window" suggestion until I just tried it again. If you detach the display the first time (at least it worked this way for me), it was like a standard window. To get it maximized or full screen, you have to either double-click the display or click the Maximize button (yes, the tooltip says Maximize). Then it changes to the resolution specified in the Display Options box.

How about relabeling it to "Maximized Window / Full Screen"? 

[lpr]

I've just started playing with theater view and full screen view, and I must admit, I don't understand why I have to detach the display then double click on it to get to full screen. Am i missing something?

I'm testing this with only a normal 4:3 crt TV as main monitor, no second monitor.

[park]

just double click anywhere in the display window to jump to full screen mode.

detaching and then maximising the window is useful if you still want to see the library for tagging etc. It's especially useful in dual screen setups becuase you can have one monitor with a maximised detached window (essentially a full screen view) and still see and tag in your library on the other monitor.

[lpr]

just double click anywhere in the display window to jump to full screen mode.

This is not working for me with a single TV display setup. I need to detach the "full screen", then double click in the detached window to have a real full screen w/o a mc interface frame.

 

[marko]

if you don't detatch, and double click in the display, you know that interface frame goes away after a few seconds leaving you in 'real full screen' mode?

Mouse into screen border to bring the interface frame back for a few more seconds.

[glynor]

if you don't detatch, and double click in the display, you know that interface frame goes away after a few seconds leaving you in 'real full screen' mode?

Mouse into screen border to bring the interface frame back for a few more seconds.

Right.  Just to make it a little more clear...

As long as you don't have your mouse pointing at one of the "borders" or overtop the control panel area it will disappear after a few seconds.

It might just be because you're used to pushing the mouse off to the edge of the screen when you're going to watch something (this is really unnecessary though because the mouse pointer will disappear anyway in a second or two).  Pointing at one of the "edges" of the screen now will cause the "controls" to remain up forever.  Leave the pointer in the "middle" of the display screen.

[glynor]

I have a 2 monitor setup and thought that if I detach the display that it would be put on the display set in Display Settings, but it wasn't working. I then noticed the words "Full Screen" which I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere. After some playing around i finally figured out what was supposed to happen.

I keep my Full Screen monitor setting (under Display Options) set to Nearest Monitor.  My "Detached Display" remembers where it was when I last closed it and opens it on that monitor next time.  Then I can just double click on it to "full screen" the display on that monitor.  That way, it works well even if you have three or more displays!  Those of us who were early-on beta testers fought long and hard to even get the detached display.  There was initially some resistance to offering it...

It works well and reliably.

If I "maximize" my Detached Display (or double click it) it does enter a true Full Screen mode (no "title bar" or minimize/restore/close buttons are available).  The terminology is correct.

If you are NOT using a Detached Display, but just entering Display View (by double clicking on the Display Action Window maybe? which is not the same thing as a Detached Display) then it will follow what I said above...

[lpr]

if you don't detatch, and double click in the display, you know that interface frame goes away after a few seconds leaving you in 'real full screen' mode?

Mouse into screen border to bring the interface frame back for a few more seconds.

Wow, I didn't know that! It shows that I'm just starting to play with theater view.

Thanks for the info

[BartMan01]

Multiple display support seems to be a major feature regression from v11 to v12.  The 'Display Options' box is similar, but the way it works is very different between the two versions.  With Fullscreen options set to 'Display #2' and 'Desktop Resolution':

In v11 the main window stays in place.  Video is launched full-screen to display #2 and is fully controllable from that window. Stopping the video closes the video window.

In v12 the main windows jumps to display 2 and is used for full-screen display.  If you change the display settings back to screen #1 at this point, the window becomes invisible and it takes 2 clicks on the task bar item to regain visibility (the first click minimizes the invisible window and the second click brings it back to display #1).

The 'detached' display suggestions above do work, but it now takes several steps to accomplish what happened naturally in v11.  There are also several issues with the detached display when compared to v11.  Primarily the control buttons no longer exist for that window (which is counter to the way I have seen any other program use a video window).  Also, when using the 'detached' display it does not close when you stop playback and there is no separate task bar item for it.  The only way to close it is to first double click it to regain the non-fullscreen status then click the close [X] in the corner.

IMHO at this time v11's multi-monitor support is far superior to v12.  It would be nice to hear that further development is planned in this area.

[glynor]

Multiple display support seems to be a major feature regression from v11 to v12.  The 'Display Options' box is similar, but the way it works is very different between the two versions.

I wouldn't say that it regressed at all!  It is different, and it takes some getting used to, but it's actually quite a bit better IMHO...

The new Detached Display is much more powerful than MC11.1's method (it's now possible to have two different displays running full screen in different zones for example).  You can even start a song playing in Zone 1 and detach the display, move it to the second monitor and full-screen it, then switch to Zone 2 and start a Video file (using the same sound card) and watch it full screen on Monitor 1, both at the same time.  The detached displays feature lets you have as many independent, concurrently running display windows as you want, and you can control them all from the regular MC UI.

I would strongly suggest that new users to MC12 leave the Display Settings --> Full Screen --> Monitor setting to Nearest Monitor for a bit and try it out that way.  It works quite intuitively that way and it's IMHO vastly improved over MC11.1's handling.  Previous versions of MC seemed pretty clunky in that it forced you to choose which monitor you wanted your full screen display to live and basically always have it there (without digging into a menu anyway).

MC12 by contrast puts the Full Screen on whichever monitor the display is currently "living on" when you send it full screen, which is just easier!  If you want it to go full screen on monitor 3, drag or send the display there (either by dragging/moving MC's whole UI, or if you want to be able to control it separately from a different monitor then use the detached display) and double click it.  If you then decide you'd like it to go to Monitor 2, you put it there and double click it.  If you find it too difficult to drag the window to another monitor, and you have multiple displays, you should really look into getting UltraMon (which has hotkeys and buttons to quickly send windows to and from monitors and is just awesome in so many other ways).  Actually, if you have more than one monitor, you should really look into UltraMon anyway...

It seems simple and elegant to me, and as a DJ tool it's WAY more powerful (letting you have multiple detached displays is awesome)!  Check out this screen shot of my desktop with two monitors, and MC running 3 different Detached Displays at once:



(Click on the thumbnail to view the full size image.)

I only have 1 sound card in this machine, and both the sound for the video and the music work at the same time.  Also, any of those displays can be sent "full screen" on any monitor I want by simply double clicking on it (which will Full Screen it "in place" on whichever monitor it's already on).

In v12 the main windows jumps to display 2 and is used for full-screen display.  If you change the display settings back to screen #1 at this point, the window becomes invisible and it takes 2 clicks on the task bar item to regain visibility (the first click minimizes the invisible window and the second click brings it back to display #1).

This doesn't happen for me.  Though I no longer use the Display 1 or 2 settings in Display Settings myself, I just tested it and I'm able to switch back and forth between the two seamlessly.  If I go full screen on Display 2, then right-click and choose Display 1, as soon as I click OK the display flips back to Display 1 as it should.  I can go back and forth as I choose.  Double clicking again returns the UI to where it was when I started, as it should...

One thing I would like (which I don't think is MC's fault so much as G-Force's) but now if you have one Detached Display running G-Force in Zone 1 and you open a separate Detached Display in Zone 2, and you start something new playing (even videos or images) each time the Zone 2 "track" changes G-Force in Zone 1's display "detects" it and shows the "track info" popup for stuff not happening in that Zone.

[glynor]

Another little thing that would be nice is if the Title Bar text (and Task Bar "tab" text) for each Detached Display would say which Zone it was from, rather than the utterly uninformative "Display".  But, beggars can't be choosers...

EDIT: Another handy use for this feature is to start some audio in Zone 1 with G-Force and detach the display and send it to another monitor (like a projector) and run it full-screen.  Then, in MC on your main monitor, switch to Zone 2 and choose Synchronize Current Zone --> From Zone 1.  This will give you another, separate, G-Force display (with different visualizations but responsive to the same audio).  If you happen to have 2 projectors (or a main monitor, projector, and a separate large-screen TV all hooked up) you can detach that Zone 2 display and send that "copy" of G-Force full-screen to the other big monitor and have multiple instances of G-Force going all at the same time....

Raver-heaven!   

(And you can sit there and control it all from MC's UI on your "main monitor" and leave the other "detached" displays full screened on your "external" monitors -- the big screens or projectors or whatever.)

[BartMan01]

Thanks Glynor - but following your advise solves some of my problems.  I do see the current additional issues with 12.0.81 that confused my testing:

Steps and issues
Start a movie with no detached display active.
Right click and choose detach.  The new window works as expected.  It goes to screen #2 (as a window) and gives me a 'Display' task bar item.
Now maximize the detached display.  Issue:  The task bar tab goes away.
Now stop the playback.  Issue:  The display box in the lower left hand corner also goes away.  Starting another video does not bring it back (but starting an audio file does).

[BartMan01]

I wouldn't say that it regressed at all!  It is different, and it takes some getting used to, but it's actually quite a bit better IMHO...

I guess that depends on your perspective/use.

In V11, I could configure the software so that video always started maximized to screen 2 as my default.  When I stopped the video, the display window closed automatically.

In V12, I have to perform extra steps every time I launch a video for this to happen.

[glynor]

In V11, I could configure the software so that video always started maximized to screen 2 as my default.  When I stopped the video, the display window closed automatically.

In V12, I have to perform extra steps every time I launch a video for this to happen.

As I explained in your other thread.... You can do that in v12, except for automatically closing the window when the video stops (which for me was annoying not a feature before, and is certainly not a huge deal).

Now maximize the detached display.  Issue:  The task bar tab goes away.

I'm not sure what you mean with these issues.

I can't see the task bar tab because it's "underneath" the Full Screen display on my monitor (UltraMon puts the task bar icons on the monitor where the tasks are currently located), so I can neither confirm or deny that.  I don't believe that Full Screen displays typically have a task bar icon (even in MC11, the task bar icon was for MC's UI not the full screen display which is a separate task in task manager), and I suspect that might be a Windows thing, not a MC thing.  Why do you care?

Now stop the playback.  Issue:  The display box in the lower left hand corner also goes away.  Starting another video does not bring it back (but starting an audio file does).

Again.  I'm not sure what you mean.  If you mean the new Display Action Window (which should just say "the display is detached, click here to bring it back"), then yes, it does close when you stop playback (as it should, I'd say).  When you start a new video though, it certainly does come back as long as you're not in Playing Now.  The Display Action Window never displays when you're in Playing Now because there's already a display window available there.  My guess is that you're in playing now, but you don't have the "display" window showing.  If you switch to anywhere else in your library you'll see the Display Action Window reappear, and if you resize the Playing Now list to reveal it's display window, you'll see why having two of them would be pretty useless.

[BartMan01]

You can do that in v12, except for automatically closing the window when the video stops (which for me was annoying not a feature before, and is certainly not a huge deal).

I would agree that it wasn't a huge deal if it wasn't for the other issues.

I don't believe that Full Screen displays typically have a task bar icon (even in MC11, the task bar icon was for MC's UI not the full screen display which is a separate task in task manager), and I suspect that might be a Windows thing, not a MC thing.  Why do you care?

WMP in full screen mode still has a task bar item, as do most other programs.  Not sure why you think this is a windows issue.
MC11 did not have one, but I could also close that window from the 'pop up' controls that where there while maximized.
MC12 doesn't give the pop-up controls and once the 'click here to bring back' window disappears it takes some clicking around to get it closed.  No its not the end of the world, but it shouldn't be that hard to do.

Again.  I'm not sure what you mean.  If you mean the new Display Action Window (which should just say "the display is detached, click here to bring it back"), then yes, it does close when you stop playback (as it should, I'd say).  When you start a new video though, it certainly does come back as long as you're not in Playing Now.

That is not happening on my system, and personally the Display Action Window should be there whenever a detached display is still actively being displayed for that zone.

On my system:
Click on 'Video' and start a video.  It starts on display 1 in the main GUI (not display 2 as I would like).
Right click/click 'detach display' to get it to do what MC11 did by default.  Why can't we have an option to start videos as detached?
Double-click pause to stop the video.  The Display action window goes away and the detached display stays full screen and 'always on top' even though the 'detached windows always on top' is not checked.  This is a problem because I can not use that display for anything else until I get that display closed.  Anything I drag to that monitor stays behind the now black fullscreen video window.
Double-click another video and it starts in the detached window, but the Display action window does not re-appear.  Once I click anywhere else in the MC12 GUI it does reappear though.

[glynor]

That is not happening on my system, and personally the Display Action Window should be there whenever a detached display is still actively being displayed for that zone.

It is, you just apparently have it hidden and don't realize it.  There are two sections to the playing now window, one which shows the "display" and one that shows the "playlist".  You apparently have the display hidden, which is certainly not the program's default.

Click on the "down arrows" on the divider at the top of the Playing Now window to reveal the playing now display (check out this thread if you don't know what I mean by the divider).  Even if you have it hidden, it's still there.  If the Display AW was shown there would essentially be two displays every time you enter the Playing Now part of MC.

I can agree that perhaps it would be best to show the Display AW if you are in Playing Now and the Playing Now display happens to be hidden, but this is probably fairly rare except for in your case.  I would guess that most people keep the Playing Now display visible 90% of the time.

WMP in full screen mode still has a task bar item, as do most other programs.  Not sure why you think this is a windows issue.

I guess I'm wrong then.  I can't even SEE my task bar when I'm in full screen so I'm not able to check.  As I said, I use UltraMon and so my windows' task bar icons are displayed on the proper monitor.

MC11 did not have one, but I could also close that window from the 'pop up' controls that where there while maximized.
MC12 doesn't give the pop-up controls and once the 'click here to bring back' window disappears it takes some clicking around to get it closed.  No its not the end of the world, but it shouldn't be that hard to do.

MC12 certainly does have a right-click menu on the full screen detached display.  You should be able to right-click and choose "Reattach Display" to close it and put it back to the main UI. Is this not working for you?

Right click/click 'detach display' to get it to do what MC11 did by default.  Why can't we have an option to start videos as detached?

This would be nice.  Perhaps a new set of choices under Options --> General --> Behavior --> Jump on Play that offer "Detached Display (If Has Display)" and "Detached Display (Always)".

Double-click another video and it starts in the detached window, but the Display action window does not re-appear.  Once I click anywhere else in the MC12 GUI it does reappear though.

That's because you're in Playing Now, and the Display AW isn't shown when you're in Playing Now.  Try changing your Options --> General --> Behavior --> Jump on Play setting to None (assuming we don't get the new choices mentioned above).  Then when you double click on a file to play it won't open Playing Now and the Display AW will be shown.

You could also just set that option to Display View (Always), and keep the Display Settings --> Full Screen --> Monitor setting set to Monitor 2 if you didn't care about having access to the separate MC UI controls on Monitor 1 at the same time.

Double-click pause to stop the video.  The Display action window goes away and the detached display stays full screen and 'always on top' even though the 'detached windows always on top' is not checked. 

This seems like it might be a bug.  You may want to post it in the build thread.  I'm not sure though, as Full Screen displays generally use hardware overlay and should always "be on top" because they're being drawn by the video card not by Windows or any application.  This might be something that could be changed, but I think the option you mentioned refers only to a non-full-screen detached display.

Overall...

If you go back and read some of the early beta testing posts (like this one here) you'll see that this setup was a compromise hammered out quite early on.  It can handle the vast majority of situations and is much more powerful for many uses...

[BartMan01]

Thanks Glynor for your tips/suggestions.  We may have to agree to disagree on usability (for my needs) but I do appreciate your help.  One thing - I am not (and never have been for any of the discussion) using the 'playing now' screen.  When watching video I am usually working from playlists directly.

I guess one way I may be different than 'usual' is that my DVD player handles most video formats (including xvid/divx) and upscales everything to 1080i/720p.  If I am watching video to just sit back and watch, then I use my big screen/surround system.

When I am watching video on my PC, I am usually multitasking at the same time.  Either cleaning up my MC library or doing other tasks.  That is why I REALLY DON'T LIKE the whole 'unified view' philosophy.  The old way of handling video fit my current needs, and I am disapointed that basic functionality was removed with the changes.  I appreciate that others needs have been met, but that doesn't help me (and from my point of view it's all about 'me' ).

I am quite surprised that early testers had to fight for muti-window video capability in the first place since that was one of the things that makes MC so useful.

[BartMan01]

Read through that post you linked - looks like the feedback from you and others came from a DJ/professional use standpoint.  Guess my needs are just different.  I can make MC12 work for me, but it was easier with MC11.

[glynor]

Thanks Glynor for your tips/suggestions.  We may have to agree to disagree on usability (for my needs) but I do appreciate your help.  One thing - I am not (and never have been for any of the discussion) using the 'playing now' screen.  When watching video I am usually working from playlists directly.

Wow.... I'm really confused then.  So you can get MC12 to have a detached window full screen on your "secondary" monitor playing a video, while the main UI shows on the "primary" monitor (not in Playing Now), and somehow the Display Action window isn't showing up (or minimized) inside the main UI?  And you don't have the MC UI set to a different zone or anything?

I've tested it about every way I can think of and I can't get that to happen!  Can you post a screenshot of your whole desktop (don't IMG tag it just link to the full-sized screenie)?  If that's happening, that's certainly a bug!

I do think the idea to have new "Detached Display" Jump To settings is a very good one, as that would be useful for situations just like yours (and would basically solve your problem I think).  It's also possible that they'll implement it as it wouldn't require adding a whole new option, just adding new choices to one that's already there!

I guess one way I may be different than 'usual' is that my DVD player handles most video formats (including xvid/divx) and upscales everything to 1080i/720p.  If I am watching video to just sit back and watch, then I use my big screen/surround system.

Heh.  I'm anything but "usual" but I don't even own a set-top DVD player at home (I do have 3 similar to what you have at work but not at home).

I'm typing this message to you using my Big-screen/surround-sound system.    

I do use my desktop system the way you describe occasionally, but it's not often enough that it's a problem to detach the display (and the MC12 was is more flexible for those times when I don't).  Generally, I just get all discombobulated if I try to do two things at once (and end up neither watching the video or getting my other tasks done properly).   

[BartMan01]

Wow.... I'm really confused then.  So you can get MC12 to have a detached window full screen on your "secondary" monitor playing a video, while the main UI shows on the "primary" monitor (not in Playing Now), and somehow the Display Action window isn't showing up (or minimized) inside the main UI?  And you don't have the MC UI set to a different zone or anything?

Not exactly.  As long as the video is playing or paused the 'Display' action window is there.  The 'bug' I am seeing (and posted on the release thread) is that once you stop the video (double click pause) then that window goes away and does not come back if you start another video from the same play list.  Weird thing is that it does come back as soon as you navigate in the main UI.  This happens regardless of the detached window's status (window or full-screen).  I can take a picture tomorrow if you still want it - too dark tonight and don't feel like setting up the tripod just for this.

Testing this with a windowed view it is possible to be in Zone 1, with a video playing in that zone but not displayed anywhere on screen.  To reproduce.  Pull up a playlist with videos.  Start a video and detach.  Fully stop the video (double click pause).  Start another video from the same play list.  Now close the detached display by clicking the [X] in the upper right corner.  Until you click on a different playlist (or on any item in the library main menu) the video does not appear anywhere on screen.

As to zones, everything is going on in zone 1.  After reading your post, I did just configure a second zone though since with MC11 I would accidentally start playing a song (during tagging/cleanup) while watching a video and kill the video playback.  Having 2 zones would prevent this.

[glynor]

Testing this with a windowed view it is possible to be in Zone 1, with a video playing in that zone but not displayed anywhere on screen.  To reproduce.  Pull up a playlist with videos.  Start a video and detach.  Fully stop the video (double click pause).  Start another video from the same play list.  Now close the detached display by clicking the [X] in the upper right corner.  Until you click on a different playlist (or on any item in the library main menu) the video does not appear anywhere on screen.

Yeah...  This does NOT happen for me.  The only way I can reproduce it is if when I close the detached view I have MC's main UI in Playing Now with the display portion of the view hidden.  What do you have Options --> General --> Jump on Play set to?

Also.... You certainly do NOT have to take a screenshot with a camera!  If you hit the "Print Screen" key on your keyboard, it copies the contents of your entire screen to the clipboard (the same place the text goes when you're using Word and you "cut" some text in order to paste it elsewhere).  Once you've copied the image to the clipboard, you just need to use a program to paste it somewhere and then save it!  You can use any image editor application you might have to do this really, but you certainly can use Paint (which comes with Windows).  Do this....

1. Recreate what you just explained to me above.  When the video is playing (after you start the second video playing back) hit the "Print Screen" key on your keyboard.
2. Go to Start --> All Programs --> Accessories --> Paint.
3. Inside Paint, go to Edit --> Paste.
4. You should see the image from your "screenshot" appear.
5. Go to File --> Save as
6. Select JPEG under "Save as File Type" and give the file a name (noting where you saved it).
7. Click Save, and go find the picture file you just made.
8. If you can upload that to a web host (like ImageShack or something) you can just post it here, or if you can't do that, you can email it to me at glynor at hot mail dot you know the rest of hotmail's address.

[BartMan01]

Here are the screen caps.
After starting the first video and detaching it:


After stopping the first video:


After starting the second video (currently playing on the second monitor):


After clicking on 'Drives and Devices' the video action window re-appears:

[glynor]

Wow... Okay!  How do you start (step-by-step) the second video?  I'm assuming that you don't double click on the second file in the playlist to start it back up (because that didn't work on mine to cause the problem).  What exactly do you do?  I'm sure if I can reproduce it, we can get that fixed!

Oh and.... My systems all copy the whole desktop to the clipboard (second monitor and all) when I hit Print Screen.  Yours don't?  Do you have a standard extended desktop (like this), or are you doing something weird in the drivers?  Perhaps that has something to do with the above problem...

[BartMan01]

To start the 2nd video, I just double clicked it from the play list.

I am using the standard dual-view set up with two different sized monitors.  Just tested a full screen print, and it did pull both screens in.  Didn't realize it did that since I generally just use alt-print scrn to grab the active window only.

[glynor]

To start the 2nd video, I just double clicked it from the play list.

Weird.  Okay.  I'm on a different machine now (with an nVidia 7800 GTX rather than my ATI X1900 XT) and I'm going to test it here to see if I can reproduce the problem....

[glynor]

Okay.  I'm stumped.  I am not able to reproduce that at all.  Is there anything special about those particular video types?  What type of files are they (or does it happen with multiple file types and codecs)?

The only thing I can suggest is that you might want to try completely uninstalling MC12 and reinstalling it from scratch.  It should not work that way at all, and it does not happen for me on multiple systems.

[BartMan01]

Updated the screen shots with full-screen.  This was a fresh install of the current version, but I will try a full un-install/re-install to see if that changes anything.

I also found that clicking on the 'action window' link also brought back the video display in that corner.

Also, it happens with all video types.  These are .mov but it also happens with .avi.

[glynor]

Well, I'm out of ideas on that issue.  It doesn't happen to my install of MC with MOVs, AVIs, or MP4s.  Anyone else have any ideas?

[BartMan01]

Update:
Reinstall didn't change the behavior, but I did notice something new:
The Display action window sometimes does reappear if the next video is a different type.  Going from .avi to .wmv. to .mov would sometimes bring back the window, but not always.  Staying with the same video type hasn't done it yet.  So it does seem to be intermittent under specific scenarios.

[glynor]

If you didn't notice it yourself...

12.0.82 (10/2/06)

10. Fixed: The "Display" action window wouldn't appear properly when starting a video with the display detached.

I think that's for you.   

[BartMan01]

The new build works 'correctly' for me now.  Still don't like the fact that the display action window disappears where there is still an active detached display present (when video is stopped), but guess I will have to live with that for now.