Topic: Tagging in 12 vs 11 (Read 16642 times)

slipknot · « **Reply #50 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:48:21 pm »

12.0.87

Better. But it's still very cramped and a larger font would only make it larger and still cramped. Is compactness a major requirement? Having the album image in the tagging window is kind of cool, but how about just putting it on the top and giving it the full width, and then the text was next to it would have more room and not be so cramped and hard to read due to excessive wrapping. As long at the total height of the tagging window does not exceed the height of my monitor, having it use the whole left pane (if needed) would not cause me any grief.

Grid lines would really help, especially if the spacing between the fields will remain so tight.

With v12 the text box typing area seems much smaller. Yes I know I can expand the width of the left tree pane, but then I have to move it back.... and the text editing width in v11 was wide enough that I never felt the need to make the tree pane wider. But with v12 it's just too narrow, and then I must reach for the mouse again...

For semi-colin delimited fields I'd sure like to have the choice to type and for the first choice to be typing rather than mousing. Keyboard, mouse, keyboard, mouse... and when the list is HUGE it's quicker and easier to type sometimes and go to the mouse and start trying to find the value I want. How about a ... button next to a text entry for these fields and when clicked it bring up the new check box selection method? Typing first, mousing on demand.

For now, v11 tagging is still cleaner looking and easier to use.

Thanks for listening.

park · « **Reply #51 on:** October 05, 2006, 10:14:18 pm »

I think that the MC12s tag window is visually a vast improvement over MC11.1. It's visually easier to see a summary of a file's info, rather than just being a table to input data into. I think that today's changes go a long way in making it as flexible as it was too.

I especially like the memory it has for each different media mode, and the thumbnail preview. (Still praying for the "image" window to be detachable though).
And the "Show tags with values" option combined with MC's memory of "other fields to include" is extremely clean, flexible, and useful.

My only remaining gripe is that mutliply selected files show as 0 stars. This is confusing and makes me think that those files havent been tagged. Please find another way to show that this area is both for "Ratings" and yet the information "varies". Maybe a graphic here would be quite elegant. (a big semi-transparent star with "Varies" written over the top of it).

Also, I'd put a html link stlye line around the thumbnail to show that it's clickable.

I also agree with the above comment about the file info next to the thumbnail being busy. I would just have the thumbnail plus the filename, the track number (which would show as "Track: varies" for multiple files) and the rating. And then put the file info on the next line before all of the editable tags. This would reduce the business, but still have the virtue of being a nice place to see a summary of info about the file.

Matt · « **Reply #52 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:03:41 pm »

If anyone can post a nice looking mock-up of gridlines in the Tag window with the Noire skin, we'll consider implementing it.

From our experimentation, grid-lines looked out of place and cluttered.

slipknot · « **Reply #53 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:18:14 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 05, 2006, 11:03:41 pm

If anyone can post a nice looking mock-up of gridlines in the Tag window with the Noire skin, we'll consider implementing it.

From our experimentation, grid-lines looked out of place and cluttered.

Thanks, anyone? I am not skilled at image manipulation. If there was more cellpadding around the cells then grid lines would be less useful.

The current style trends of screen design seem to try and make it look less "computer like". And the new style looks kind of free form. Not really bad looking at all, but hard to get the accuracy clicking on specific areas with everything so tight and close together.

lalittle · « **Reply #54 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:58:04 am »

Quote from: park on October 05, 2006, 10:14:18 pm

I think that the MC12s tag window is visually a vast improvement over MC11.1. It's visually easier to see a summary of a file's info, rather than just being a table to input data into.

I think that for many of us, that's the problem -- i.e. that the Tag Window is now more of a "summary" window than a place to do tagging work. For those of us who like to use the AW for this type of work, it's a problem to have the "summary" approach to the window.

As stated before, any given person's reaction to the Tag Window changes is directly dependant on how they USE the TW, and whether or not they used the features that were removed.

Keep up the comments, however, since this is the only way that JR has of knowing what people are liking/disliking about the TW. I still vote for these to be configurable options, just like the panes offer.

Thanks,

Larry

lalittle · « **Reply #55 on:** October 06, 2006, 05:02:43 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 05, 2006, 11:03:41 pm

If anyone can post a nice looking mock-up of gridlines in the Tag window with the Noire skin, we'll consider implementing it.

From our experimentation, grid-lines looked out of place and cluttered.

My feeling is sort of the opposite. To me, the lack of grid lines makes the TW look cluttered since all the info gets crowded into one big mass rather than being clearly seperated into rows. Justifying the columns definitely helped with this, but I still prefered the grid lines in MC11's TW.

dcwebman actually did a mockup a while back that had grid lines. I'm posting the same link here from his earlier post in the "Reaction to Tag Window" thread:

One thing I would add to this would be a different shade for read-only fields (like MC11 had.) I should also mention that the grid lines should be designed to work in other skins -- I still prefer Thunderstorm. Noire is just too bright for me, and I don't like not having the stop button.

Note how the order of the tags is not alphabetical in the mockup. I think this is a very important feature to add.

On a related note, if grid lines are used (or even if they aren't) it would really make things easy to be able to click ANYWHERE in the row to edit the field (rather then just ON the name or value, which is how it currently works.) It's kind of annoying to have to specifically target small words when wanting to edit a tag -- the whole row should be "active," with the changing color indicating which field your on.

Thanks,

Larry

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #56 on:** October 06, 2006, 11:11:20 am »

Quote from: lalittle on October 06, 2006, 05:02:43 am

the lack of grid lines makes the TW look cluttered since all the info gets crowded into one big mass rather than being clearly seperated into rows

I Agree

dcwebman · « **Reply #57 on:** October 06, 2006, 11:26:54 am »

Here's all my mockups:

Number 1 (the old one)	Number 2
Number 3	Number 4

BTW, JRiver, what font do you use for the text in the tag window? I couldn't get an exact match.

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #58 on:** October 06, 2006, 11:32:52 am »

Quote from: dcwebman on October 06, 2006, 11:26:54 am

Here's all my mockups:

Much better.

The trick is finding the balance of clean vs. clear. The current design is very clean, but the mind cannot easily focus on the data. This mockup makes it clear.

slipknot · « **Reply #59 on:** October 06, 2006, 11:59:16 am »

Wow, thanks for taking the time to do the mockups.

I personally like #1 (the original) best. It's easiest on the eyes to pickout the field name and the field data.

How many votes do I get?

glynor · « **Reply #60 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:02:51 pm »

I like #1 the best, with #4 a close second. The others are too busy.

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #61 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:11:10 pm »

Quote from: glynor on October 06, 2006, 12:02:51 pm

I like #1 the best, with #4 a close second. The others are too busy.

All are better, but I agree with Glynor's ranking. 1st 1 then 4.

dcwebman · « **Reply #62 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:33:04 pm »

I guess I get to vote too.

I do like number 1 because it's cleaner but like the compactness of 4 so I don't have to scroll so much.

Alex B · « **Reply #63 on:** October 06, 2006, 02:53:59 pm »

In my opinion, the "Format" info is not as easily available as it was in MC11.1 (= the File Type Info window in MC11.1, which can show the physical file tags instead of library contents). It has been my most used AW part.

I wonder why it was moved to be a part of the AW tagging window.

It would be nice if there was a separate right-click shortcut. The command would then quickly change AW to show the format info display.

KeystoneCop · « **Reply #64 on:** October 06, 2006, 04:09:59 pm »

#4 with NAME like in #1

I do like the last change. THANKS

lalittle · « **Reply #65 on:** October 06, 2006, 06:27:38 pm »

I still would like to see a different color used for read-only fields, so I don't know if #4 would work in this case. MC11 used a darker shade similar to #4 to denote the fields that could not be edited (making it easier to quickly find certain fields) so I find it a little confusing to now use the same shades to create the grid.

I think the "lines" approach works best, and of all the choices I've seen so far, I like either #1, or the MC11 approach.

dcwebman -- Thanks for posting these. I have no idea how hard it is to create these mockups, but if you're game, perhaps you could make one like #1, but that includes some read-only fields (date created, bitrate, last played, etc.), and has these values shown with the darker color (like in the left column of #1.) If the value is read-only, the grid lines would be the lighter color all the way accross. I think this might work really well since it would still look "clean," yet it would give us both grid lines AND the different read-only color.

I should note once again that whatever we do, it needs to work in other skins as well. I mention this because at the moment, the "clear rating" icon does NOT work in Thunderstorm -- it essentially vanishes when the mouse is on it. I don't use Noire since it's too bright, and doesn't have a "stop" button. I still like Thunderstorm the best.

Larry

dcwebman · « **Reply #66 on:** October 07, 2006, 08:37:27 am »

Per request, 2 more mockups:

Number 5

Number 6

Alex B · « **Reply #67 on:** October 07, 2006, 08:42:55 am »

This is not a mockup.

dcwebman · « **Reply #68 on:** October 07, 2006, 08:47:57 am »

Quote from: Alex B on October 07, 2006, 08:42:55 am

This is not a mockup.

LOL That's actually how I created the Number 1 mockup. Applied the Noire skin to MC 11 and took the fields there and just put the MC 12 top on to the tag window.

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #69 on:** October 07, 2006, 11:18:00 am »

Quote from: Alex B on October 07, 2006, 08:42:55 am

This is not a mockup.

I like it.

lalittle · « **Reply #70 on:** October 07, 2006, 06:13:51 pm »

dcwebman,

Thanks -- those look terrific. Between the two, I think I'd pick #5 since I like having the name of the song at the top (is this the only change?) I do, however, like the "name" field at the top of the actual Tag column -- I don't mind it being repeated in both the header AND the list. I'd still like to be able to re-order the list AS WELL AS having the display choices we now have ("Current View," etc.)

I also wish we could remove the "rating" since I just never use it, and it just gets in the way.

Just to re-iterate, I think we should be able to click ANYWHERE in a row (NOT just on the text) in order to edit the field. This simply makes it easier to edit since you don't have to be so accurate with your aim (which is especially true with the smaller font and more closely packed rows.)

Thanks again,

Larry

PS. Alex -- thanks for posting the MC11 Tag window, which I always felt was a very good design.

JimH · « **Reply #71 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:23:57 pm »

Locking this thread since it is about the earlier versions of MC12 tagging. Please use this thread for the latest:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36200.0

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Tagging in 12 vs 11 (Read 16642 times)