Topic: Recording LPs (Read 3884 times)

rmarmes · « **on:** August 04, 2007, 12:26:04 pm »

I just installed an M-Audio 2496 sound card in my HTPC so that I can begin recording my large LP library to disk using MC12.

I would like to experiment with different bit depths and sample rates, including 24/44.1. My question is how to configure MC12 to change these settings. Any insight would be most appreciated.

R

KingSparta · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2007, 12:35:45 pm »

You May Want To Use Audio Cleaning Lab 12

It May Help Clean Up The Recordings.

rmarmes · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2007, 12:47:09 pm »

Have you used this product? Does it allow for changing bit depths and sample frequencies?
R

lepa · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2007, 03:24:51 pm »

I'm mostly using ClickRepair to remove clicks. It works great
and most importantly doesn't seem to do any harm to the signal if used with right settings.
Tried several others too but this is the one I like most. And it is cheap too.

modelmaker · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2007, 04:31:01 pm »

I've been using Magix' AudioCleaningLab for several years, (about 2000 LPs worth) with excellent results. The newer version may have a higher (greater than 44.1) sample rate option, I don't know.

I started making CDs, but once I put a carputer together I found I had no need for all those CDs, so everything is stored and backed up on HDs as ape files.

Unless you go to a higher sample rate, the best you can expect in sound quality is the equivalent of a well produced commercial CD. And I would add that you would also need a very high end cartridge to capture it off an LP to really reap the benifit of a higher sample rate. I use a Thorens turntable with Ortofon MM, Decca and AT Signet cartridges, (@ 44.1).

Whichever way you go, it'll be a long process, so have patience and enjoy the music!

Listener · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2007, 04:51:08 pm »

I used Audacity to record and edit. It has a click remover tool (finicky but it works) that i used on each individual click. The display makes it easy to see big clicks and breaks between tracks.

It badly needs some how-to documentation but with an hour's messing around you should be able to do the basics.

You can choose the sample rate and bit depth.

It's free.

Bill

rmarmes · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2007, 06:56:14 pm »

Guys,
Thanks for the software suggestions. I'll give Audacity and the Magix product a try over the next few days.

Modelmaker, so you are recording at a 16 bit depth, and 44 sample frequency? I have a nice setup as well (rega planar 25, clearaudio virtuoso wood mm cartridge), and was hoping that the recorded result might come close to the real thing. My initial recording attempts using MC12 at 16/44 were disappointing which is why I made my initital post in this thread. If you've recorded over 2000 records you must be satisfied using 16/44. Perhaps that where I will end up, but I want to do some experimentation first. Any comments would be most appreciated.

R

KingSparta · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2007, 07:13:59 pm »

Quote

The newer version may have a higher (greater than 44.1) sample rate option, I don't know.

The Recorder Will Record At

24bit, 48,000 Samples

Also With Audio - CD Track Recognition

rmarmes · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2007, 08:18:40 pm »

Thanks for the feedback, KingSparta. I'll download ACL now, and give it a test drive.
R

KingSparta · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2007, 09:06:50 pm »

It is used widely for restoring old Vintage radio shows from Lp's and tapes, and most of the dehissing, declicking is automated, you can also do adjustments manually.

lepa · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:32:47 am »

16bit should be enough if you don't need to do any editing. If there are clicks'n'pops in your record that you intend to
remove perhaps you should use higher resolution to avoid rounding errors during the processing.

E: Oh, and I don't recommend to use any denoising filters on music. They do more harm than good.

jack wallstreet · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2007, 08:44:00 pm »

I have found Diamond Cut Audio DC 6 (they also have a less expensive version that works well) to be excellent for applying a wide variety of filters, noise reductions, declicking, etc. It has excellent sound enhancement filters also.

GHammer · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2007, 10:46:07 pm »

I had pretty good results with a SAE 5000 years ago.
But, there is a piece of hardware that is tough to beat if you play LPs or 78s much.
Take a look here:

http://www.esotericsound.com/elect.htm#d_Noise%20Reduction

rmarmes · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2007, 07:40:56 am »

Everyone,
Just asking the question: Why not use MC12 if one is content with 16/44.1 and doesn't wish to bother with de-clicking, de-popping? (FWIW, I do intend to do capture at 24/48 AND try some editing, so MC12 won't work for me. Just curious).
R

Krazykanuck · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:07:11 am »

MC12 is probably just fine if all you want to do is record and your albums are in good condition.
Out of my 1000 or so albums very few were/are in good enough condition that that is all that is required.

I have been using DC 6 for a while now.
When converting those albums that went to too many parties in my younger days the features/flexibility come in handy.

rmarmes · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:26:23 am »

GHammer,
Thanks for the link. I've not seen or heard of this company before. Which product or products are you using of theirs?
R

JONCAT · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2007, 01:31:24 pm »

Some of the tools in apps like Wavelab make for easier archiving imo....auto-split, auto-start/pause, dither, batch effect (if needed), etc.

btw - Cool Edit may come in handy as there is an .ape plugin for it...you can Send To>Cool Edit from within MC and CE will decode the .ape and let you edit it "on the fly"....

(http://animalia.interfree.it/Freeware/ape_flt.zip)
from MAC forum:
"Every filter for Monkey's Audio works in Cool Edit Pro , Adobe Audition v1.x and correct me if I wrong in 2.x too.
No matter how the file is named.
Filters provided with 4.x betas of MA are broken. They basicly can encode and decode but you can't call 'Options' dialog. Editors will crash.
Use filter from v3.99 distribution. You will loose nothing with it. Format version in 4.x betas is still v3.99.
No filter I seen supports encoding to 'Insane' level but decoding from is possible."

I have given up recording at 24/96. Now I use 32bit_float/44kHz and leave it alone...no word change means no need for dither or re-sampling = less work overall. And 44kHz is plenty for the human ear.

From what I gathered in the past the extra gain comes from extending upwards of 16bits for vinyl transfer although it's arguable that much more than this is even available from an LP. As mentioned, the 32bit gives you some room to play with if you need to do some serious audio restoration but I've heard 24 is plenty.

I leave MC output format as 32/44. I believe Matt stated here once, when asked, that MC will burn down to 16/44 accordingly (with dither I assume). I do most of my mostly on PC, DAP, or eventually, on a carputer so CDs are somewhat of a novelty here....

DC

KingSparta · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2007, 03:38:17 pm »

Quote

Everyone,
Just asking the question: Why not use MC12 if one is content with 16/44.1 and doesn't wish to bother with de-clicking, de-popping?

You don't, but some old albums need some help.

even more so when you are talking about old 78's

I have been working with some old records in the past few years, and you can clean them up a bit maybe even leaving some of the clicks and pops in there for the atmosphere.

Media Editor in MC12 has basically not changed since Before MJ6 could use some fixing up maybe including some of these enhancements. It is kind of like having a rolls Royce (MC12) and having a Pinto tire on the left front (Media Editor). You can use media editor to manually remove clicks and pops if you magnify and maybe use transform or actually cut out the click.

rmarmes · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:08:15 pm »

DC,
In the last para of your last post you mention "I leave MC output format as 32/44". Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by that statement: Are you talking about the playback of recorded material thru MC12? If so, how do you set 32/44?
R

JONCAT · « **Reply #19 on:** September 13, 2007, 11:08:22 pm »

In the DSP studio you can adjust your playback settings.

You can change bit depth. You can change your sampling rate according to the specs of your sound card (if it will allow higher sample/re-smaple rates.

btw- I am back recording vinyl at 24/96 after some more reading.

DC

rmarmes · « **Reply #20 on:** September 14, 2007, 11:56:55 am »

DC,
I had overlooked DSP Studio so many thanks for the pointer that direction.

I'm still playing with my M-Audio 2496 Audiophile card but so far underwhelmed with the playback quality: No where close to the quality to even the sound of a medium quality CD. What is your hardware/software setup for LP recording/playback?
R

JONCAT · « **Reply #21 on:** September 14, 2007, 02:02:39 pm »

Hmmm...I know a guy who uses that card with some nice amps and Klipsch Lascala speakers.

I owned the 24.96 but it was a long time ago. I currently use an EMU 1212M for recording (I have a mod to solder on soon to benefit recording SNR). VPI HW-19 with a JS Electrostatic Airbearing Tonearm and Grado Sonata (Moving iron). Pre-amp is a Sunfire Vacuum Tube Control Center.

The 1212M sends digital coax to a Benchmark DAC1 which goes to the Sunfire, then to a pair of Quicksilver mono blocks (Mini-mites with EI KT90 type III power tubes).

I use the 1212M output to send audio to a Tascam deck with VU meters ...other than that I use only the DAC1 for playback, but sometimes an EMU 0202 USB sound card which I have for headphones (before I got the DAC1) and also for voice recording (or jam sessions with laptop).

The EMU cards are stable, and have drivers for 64bit. No Vista drivers for the USB cards yet though.

DC

rmarmes · « **Reply #22 on:** September 14, 2007, 07:26:10 pm »

DC,
The M-Audio card is probably just fine. I need more time to determine how to get the best sound out of it, including adjusting bit depth and sampling rates.

Thanks for the comprehensive response to the hardware question. Very nice setup!

My setup: I'm passing an analog signal from the M-Audio card over to a Herron P/A, which is hooked to a Hsu subwoofer. The non-subwoofer signal is then passed to Legacy monoblocs, and then on to Legacy's Whisper speakers.

For recording:
Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge; Rega Planar T/T; Herron PhP/A; Herron P/A; M-Audio; HTPC.
It's certainly a system capable of putting out nice music, I just need to read more myself to determine if the M-Audio card will work for me, and if not, consider the Benchmark, etal.

Thanks again for all your input.
Best
R

JONCAT · « **Reply #23 on:** September 15, 2007, 06:45:40 pm »

MOOSEFACE! (found you: http://cgib.audioasylum.com/systems/1317.html)

I have some CC89259 speaker cables I made; looks like you've been busy DIY'ing. Crazy system.

I'm using some 18guage solid silver with a simple twist design; it's fragile but sounds good for now.

Recording at 24/96, I compress the files with MC to .ape (like most of my music), and have anything not 96kHz upsampled by MC or FFDshow.

There was the concern that friends or family, who had no 96kHz compatible sound card, would have cpu issues with MC trying to downsample the higher sample rate content. My uncle has an old PC, and I was having major issues on an AMD64 @ 3gHz when testing the downsampling...but I think these issues have been resolved and the PCs are getting more capable of such tasks every day.

Since I'm not doing major editing on the archived vinyl, 24-bit should be plenty, and the benefits of leaving files at 96kHz (less work are also combined with not having to run any sample rate conversion to introduce error.

dc

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Author Topic: Recording LPs (Read 3884 times)

JONCAT

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