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Author Topic: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister  (Read 24381 times)

hit_ny

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2007, 11:22:48 am »

Yes, skip counts are kept all the time anyway.
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datdude

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2007, 12:06:20 pm »

Yeah, that could be a problem then.  I don't like using their skipping metadata as it is, not becuase it is bad, simply because I switch songs often, but that doesn't mean I don't like them I just happened to on a whim skip it.  So the only conditional rule I use is last played.  But if Playlist Monkey based song selection on only skipping songs for that session, it would perfect for me.

From that perspective, I would like to not see the next songs showing up in Playing now until you skip or the current song ends.  IF you could easily configure how many songs show up that would be good.  The problem is if Playlist Monkey then shows 5 songs to play, and you skip a song, would it replace the next 5 songs all together?
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2007, 01:36:16 pm »

Yeah, that could be a problem then.  I don't like using their skipping metadata as it is, not becuase it is bad, simply because I switch songs often, but that doesn't mean I don't like them I just happened to on a whim skip it.  So the only conditional rule I use is last played.  But if Playlist Monkey based song selection on only skipping songs for that session, it would perfect for me.

Same here.  Sometimes you feel like a nut, and sometimes you don't.  Once you stop playback of the fancy list (by stopping or by playing something else manually or closing MC or whatever) I think it should "clear it's cache" completely.

Unless the logic is truly amazing, it's going to end up picking a song that -- while it might be a song you like a LOT -- doesn't really apply to this "mood" and so you'll skip it.  That doesn't mean that song doesn't apply to any mood, just not this one.

I have frequent and sudden mood changes.   ;)

From that perspective, I would like to not see the next songs showing up in Playing now until you skip or the current song ends.  IF you could easily configure how many songs show up that would be good.  The problem is if Playlist Monkey then shows 5 songs to play, and you skip a song, would it replace the next 5 songs all together?

I was thinking, when I initially proposed the 3-5 song "buffer" that once the songs appeared in the Playing Now list, they'd be "locked in" (meaning, they'd definitely play and play in that order unless you manually deleted or re-ordered them).  The logic would apply to "future" selected songs (so the 4th song on which haven't yet made it into the Playing Now list).  In other words, the "Monkey" in the background would be busily selecting songs based on mood, but would be constantly deciding on the 4th song down (or 6th or whatever) song to play, not the very next one.

That way, you'd be able to manage it manually a little (or at least see what's coming next), and it wouldn't constantly change based on skips or anything, but it'd still be pretty responsive.

For me, I think a 3 song "buffer" would be perfect.  It'd probably be good to have this configurable though.
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wombat66

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2007, 01:40:54 pm »

Another name possibility:

Jukebox Genie
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2007, 01:51:48 pm »

How about: Surfing Jukebox

 ;)  ;D
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datdude

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2007, 02:27:45 pm »

The other possiblity is to not show any songs up coming in PN, but if you want to see what songs could possibly be next you would click on the dedicated PM playlist in the tree or possibly another splitter that could open upwards below the normal PN list, that might be the best way to go. 

This additonal splitter would only reveal itself when Playlist Monkey is enabled, and you could minimize or maximize it just like in normal split view rows.  Since in theory the list would contstantly be changing, it might be worth it to have that easy access.
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KingSparta

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2007, 02:48:23 pm »

Is JRiver Really Entertaining Ideas For A Name?

I See Nothing Wrong With Playlist Monkey, Maybe Some Sound Effects Of A Chimp When You Click On The Option.

Here Are Some Chimp Sounds From My Family Album:

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/media/chimpcalls.html

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hit_ny

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2007, 02:55:27 pm »

I'd say we're waay past the name..who cares what they call it...lets get into the nitty gritty :)

The other possiblity is to not show any songs up coming in PN, but if you want to see what songs could possibly be next you would click on the dedicated PM playlist in the tree or possibly another splitter that could open upwards below the normal PN list, that might be the best way to go. 
no splitter, just clicking on a playlist item in the tree sounds right. Tracks keep getting updated only there. Feels consistant with the overall look & feel we are used to.

i still think tracks mysteriously appearing in PN is a bit scary, who put them there, i didn't  ?

Still not as easy as pandora though  ?


So then we get into this special browsing mode Matt mentioned some time back.

A desginated kind-of-but-not-quite like PN just for the playlist generator.
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Matt

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2007, 06:39:48 pm »

A first draft of this feature is in the build tonight. 

We called it "Radio".  You can tell we're reserved Scandinavians.
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JimH

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2007, 06:49:29 pm »

A first draft of this feature is in the build tonight. 

We called it "Radio".  You can tell we're reserved Scandinavians.
Hey, why you didn't say you wanted to call it "Buddy" at first?
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Matt

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2007, 07:17:24 pm »

To use what's in build 351, do this:

1) Play a song you want to use as the seed for your personalized radio station.
2) While the song is playing, pick Menu > Player > Radio
3) Sit back and enjoy (it should play forever)

As you play, the radio station learns based on whether you listen to an entire song or skip it.  You'll get more songs like you listen to and less like you skip with time.

Currently it considers artist, album, genre, and rating.  It does a surprising amount of math.  Era, last played time, ratio of skips to plays, audio analysis, etc. will be added to the weighting later.



I wonder if it would be more clear to allow "Play (as radio station)" from the play menu when picking any selection of files.  It's hard to use multiple files as seeds with the current setup.
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Mike Noe

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2007, 08:17:12 pm »

Quote
I wonder if it would be more clear to allow "Play (as radio station)" from the play menu when picking any selection of files.  It's hard to use multiple files as seeds with the current setup.

That was exactly my first inclination.  I went right to Steely Dan's Katy Lied and right clicked for the play menu.

You could grey out the option for multi-select?  Or provide a msg to the affect that only one song will "count" for the seed.  I dunno, I like the idea of it being on the play menu.
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2007, 08:49:39 pm »

Definitely on the right-click --> Play (as Radio Station).  I'd say gray out when not available.  Clear and concise and intuitive.

Still evaluating how well it works.  Based on this:

Seed was Radiohead
Next plays were:

Whitney Houston
Alicia Keys
Alan Parsons Project
INXS
Yes
Supertramp

Whitney?  I have some doubts, but I'm sure the algorithm can be adjusted if needed.  Giving it a test with Videotape right now, so we'll see.  Blank playing now is fine I suppose (but I still think it'd be nice to see the "future").

...

Videotape just ended, and it chose another Radiohead song, so I guess it can't go wrong there.  We'll see.

I'm also now wondering... How does it decide about Genre?  I mean... Do you have a list of "related genres" that you're using at all, or does it only consider same genre vs. different genre.  For example... Does it consider the fact that "Classical" is probably pretty different from "Punk" or "Hip-Hop" or "Reggae"?
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datdude

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2007, 09:31:15 pm »

Just tried it, great job!!!  This is the one feature I have ALWAYS wanted in MC.  I know consider MC to be complete in my eyes (though I'm sure I won't stop making suggestions for new features)!


If I play a song by double clicking it from the library, and then decide I want the Radio option, starts the song over.  Hopefully it will simply enable that mode passively.

After the Radio is on, it is difficult/confusing to turn it off, remove songs, and start over.  If I press stop, I can't remove the song.  Only after I click play from the toolbar menu, can I remove the songs.  Also the check box doesn't disappear after trying to uncheck it.   The music stops if I do this, but only after clicking the Play menu option or playing a new song from the library, does it disable the Radio.

It might be nice to visually show the Radio option as ON in top Display that flashes something like 'RADIO' subtly next to the track data, maybe in a slightly different color shade.


If I decide I want to start a new seed song while in Radio mode, what is the best way to go about this?  Can the Radio be kept no matter what I do until I click it off in the menu?


It seems to have a tendency to play the exact same song again, but only in smaller genre's I think (not sure if that is the reason)


Obviously I hope how it makes it's selections is somewhat user configurable with a settings screen like you showed in the first post.  But I could imagine giving control such as a year range that the user could select 5, 10, or whatever.   Same thing with BPM and Intensity.  Also controlling how sensitive the Radio is to last played, skipped song data, and ratings are important. 

Simplicity is nice with basic sliders, but allowing those fields to be specifically controlled would be great.   For those of us who have Styles or sub-genres nicely tagged, I hope that is somehow weighted in (mine are the semi-colon type).


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GHammer

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2007, 10:11:36 pm »

I don't care to see the next songs that have been selected to play. I kind of like the "surprise" factor as is is now. You rarely know what's coming on broadcast radio.

What will happen when some of the selection criteria is not present? Like BPM, etc. I don't have analyzed files.
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jgreen

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #65 on: October 17, 2007, 10:13:14 pm »

Well, I'm trying this. 

The last audio prior to trying this was "In Rainbows", played from track 1 to finish without any pauses or dupes.  So I tried this by deleting off everything in PN except for "Reckoner", which was my favorite track.

Okay:
1.  Reckoner  (I picked this).
2. Faust (Hey--that's the track most like reckoner).
3.  15 steps (Okay, after the goofy intro it's a lot like the others).
4. Faust (Umm . . .).
5. Bodysnatchers (It's alright to try some of my 15,000 other tracks, Mr. Radio).
6.  Weird fishes
7. Weird fishes (Yes, a double-tap).
8. Reckoner
9. Videotape
10.  Faust (Currently playing).

I'll let you know if Radio ever decides to venture outside of "In Rainbows".
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jgreen

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2007, 10:36:56 pm »

Okay, I got it to play a different song, but I really had to help it along in this.  I cleared PN and then went to top hits and selected "Circle in the sand",  by Belinda Carlisle. 

1.  Circle in the Sand (radio airplay edit).
2.  Circle in the Sand (full version, but a dupe for "Name").  Is there any way we could get Mr. Radio to just not play dupes?
3.  Ta-Da:  "Down By The River", by the man himself.  judge for yourself if you can picture Neil Young and Belinda Carlisle singing     a duet.
4.  It wanted to play "Carribean Blue" by Enya next (NOT in my Top Hits).  However, this track in my library is on a drive not currently connected.  Did nobody think of this?  About 2/3 of my library is not connected at any given time, so I gues I'd better get used to Belinda Carlisle and a lot of Radiohead. 
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2007, 10:42:46 pm »

Definitely on the right-click --> Play (as Radio Station).  I'd say gray out when not available.  Clear and concise and intuitive.

I'd also say keep some way to activate Radio mode as you have it now (under the Player menu).  If the feature works well, I'd say it'd be nice to even have a "Radio Mode" button (maybe shaped like an old-school broadcasting style antenna even) on the top toolbar next to Continuous, Shuffle, and DSP Mode.  I'd go with both the Right-Click and the Shuffle-like mode (just like Play Shuffled).

But you definitely need to lose the restarting playback when enabling Radio-mode "feature".

And I'd agree... It does seem to have a particular penchant for repeating the same artist.  So far for me anyhow.  I'll give it more time though.

EDIT:

It also seems to value single-genre playback over all else....  Is this the goal?  I don't mind it doing the double-artist repeat (much like a cheesily-named "rock block" on the radio) but 4 in a row is a bit much.  And I don't want it to be just all one genre, or else I'd just play it on random inside that Genre.  Maybe a focus on the initial Genre, but... Variety is the spice of life (and of the radio).

Here's my two recent tries (I started with Fearless both times for consistency).
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jgreen

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2007, 11:14:52 pm »

Well, I started scrolling to just before the end of each song, in order to get more songs in with less time spent.  in 10 minutes I got Radio to suggest 36 tracks, and 31 of them were by REM (I have a lot of REM albums).  Nonetheless, I think it would be well advised to add a rule to the algorithm:  no 2 contiguous tracks by the same artist.  In my case, that would still have left about 18 REM tracks out of the 36.  But it would seem far less as if Radio was just throwing albums on--I can do that.

Also:  Radio seems to like "E-bow the Letter" best of all REM tracks.  My favorite too--good call, Radio--but when we get 5 or 6 of the same track out of 36, that gets a bit much. 
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marko

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2007, 01:20:12 am »

Speaking of skipping, if you're going to take skipping into account for this new feature, that "skip bug" needs to be working correctly. That is, the Skip Count doesn't get updated unless you truly skip it with the FF button. I still get Skip Count updated if I stop the song before the 50% point.

That's not a bug.  You can start a new thread, but this was discussed quite a bit before.

Here's the thread... http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=38146.0

I think it's argument is even more valid with the introduction of the new radio mode, first impressions of which are not bad, it's picking some good music for this morning.

-marko.

bennyd

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2007, 01:38:27 pm »

And like a real radio station, there should be some warning when radio is playing, like a "on air" light of a real radio station
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KingSparta

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2007, 04:23:31 pm »

Today MC finished analyzing 10,000+ songs that i never analyzed before

it was interesting to note that when it was done it told me there was 9 files queued.

not sure why that was so i hit the analyze button and it finished the other 9 files.

thats the first time MC ever left 9 files un-analyzed
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modelmaker

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2007, 04:56:55 pm »

MC just crashed on the 11th Radio song. I haven't had MC crash in a year at least. I'll start it up again and see how far it goes this time.

Media Center Registered 12.0.351 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
AMD Unknown 2196 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 183 MB

Internet Explorer: 7.0.5730.11 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive Z: LITE-ON LTR-32123S        Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive Z: LITE-ON  LTR-32123S         Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:32  MaxSpeed:32  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:


Interface Plugins:
  last.fm (Active)
  Library Server (Active)
  TiVo Server (Active)
  UPnP Server (Active)
  What I'm Listening To (Active)
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modelmaker

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2007, 07:50:18 pm »

352 seems to have taken care of the crash.
Q: It takes about 5-10 seconds to change tracks with my 40+k track library, is this how it should be?
Q: Is it suposed to take 20-30 seconds to skip a track?


Listening to: 'Starship' from 'Blows Against The Empire' by 'Paul Kantner - Jefferson Starship' on Media Center 12
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Matt

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2007, 07:53:42 pm »

352 seems to have taken care of the crash.
Q: It takes about 5-10 seconds to change tracks with my 40+k track library, is this how it should be?
Q: Is it suposed to take 20-30 seconds to skip a track?


Listening to: 'Starship' from 'Blows Against The Empire' by 'Paul Kantner - Jefferson Starship' on Media Center 12


How many songs are you seeding the station with?  How many have you played / skipped?

It's doing a lot of math, and hasn't been heavily optimized yet.
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modelmaker

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2007, 11:39:54 pm »

I did as you recommended, Player>Radio. I didn't preselect (seed) any tracks. I'll try that next. I like it sofar.
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mlefebvre

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2007, 02:00:32 am »

I have to say, I am REALLY happy and impressed with the Radio feature. I've been listening to it for about 15 songs now and every track that it has picked has been great!

Now, how to I get this to my iPod?  ;D

...Michel.
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KingSparta

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2007, 05:45:37 am »

since you changed the name to just plain old "radio" (Not Too Exciting)

how about "Media Center Radio"

Or "MC Radio"
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mlefebvre

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2007, 07:07:45 am »

since you changed the name to just plain old "radio" (Not Too Exciting)

how about "Media Center Radio"

Or "MC Radio"

Radio is a name that could be confusing to people... One could easily think that MC would be broadcasting the music over the Internet as a radio station.... Now maybe that would be a cool feature to some...  ;D

...Michel.
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datdude

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2007, 07:03:28 pm »

I really hope that Radio has a third way to be used in ome sort of active passive mode that is always on, kind of like Automatic shuffle, where only when the music in PN ends, does it kick in.  That way I don't have to remember to explicitly turn it on and start over with seeds, all the time.
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jgreen

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2007, 08:04:32 pm »

Dude, I'm pretty impressed with the track-picking in non-seeded Radio (player/radio with no tracks in PN).  In fact, if anything, I think seeded palyback is somewhat problematic--radio seems to hug certain albums or artists.  If anything, gives an EASY hotkey for player/radio, so that we can keep the tunes comin!
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Magic_Randy

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2007, 10:04:16 am »

There is some debate in a few threads on what should or should not be included when playing radio. I would suggest 2 things.

1) I would not expose the rules engine - a radio should have some surprise element
2) I would allow driving it from a smartlist - that way people can establish the overall flavor of the radio station - maybe there could be multiple radio stations each driven by it's own smartlist (e.g. all Rock, Rock/Pop/Country/, Classical, Easy listening, ...)

I generally like everything the radio feature picks, but that is not a surprise - it's from my library.  Without any control, it does add things that I would never expect to hear on a radio.  Example: Track from Queen & another track from Judy Garland or Hendrix & Sinatra.
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mlefebvre

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #82 on: October 20, 2007, 10:30:55 am »


2) I would allow driving it from a smartlist - that way people can establish the overall flavor of the radio station - maybe there could be multiple radio stations each driven by it's own smartlist (e.g. all Rock, Rock/Pop/Country/, Classical, Easy listening, ...)

I generally like everything the radio feature picks, but that is not a surprise - it's from my library.  Without any control, it does add things that I would never expect to hear on a radio.  Example: Track from Queen & another track from Judy Garland or Hendrix & Sinatra.

I totally support this. I was thinking the same thing late last night. This way, I could have the Radio functionality on my iPod. Everytime I would sync the iPod, the Smartlist with the radio functionality would create a fresh Radio playlist and upload it to the iPod. Since I sync almost everyday, the playlist on the iPod would change all the time. Now I realize that it would probably really increase the time that the playlist needs to get generated, but I would live with that.


...Michel.
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2007, 10:34:10 am »

I'm not clear how different this would be from a randomly sorted Smartlist limited to a certain number of tracks.  Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing, while giving you full control over the selection criteria?

I just understand Matt's instinct to keep the Radio function as simple as possible.  Limiting to Smartlist/Playlists just seems redundant, as Smartlists can already encapsulate much of this functionality.
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #84 on: October 20, 2007, 10:35:42 am »

I'm not clear how different this would be from a randomly sorted Smartlist limited to a certain number of tracks.  Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing, while giving you full control over the selection criteria?

I just understand Matt's instinct to keep the Radio function as simple as possible.  Limiting to Smartlist/Playlists just seems redundant, as Smartlists can already encapsulate much of this functionality.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I do think we need a simple way to exclude tracks from Radio play (Podcasts, audio books, weird stuff, etc), but I don't know that a complex Smartlist based approach is the way to go:

This is definitely needed... Last night using the Radio mode, MC chose a few podcasts and audio books that aren't really appropriate.  I think a simple solution is to have Radio mode respect a special tag (such as Keyword = NoRadio, or maybe a special boolean Prohibit Radio Play tag).  It'd also be good for Podcasts that MC downloads to get whatever tag is used auto-added (but with the ability to manually override it).
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Magic_Randy

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #85 on: October 20, 2007, 12:08:10 pm »

I just understand Matt's instinct to keep the Radio function as simple as possible.  Limiting to Smartlist/Playlists just seems redundant, as Smartlists can already encapsulate much of this functionality.

I agree with your point.  All I was saying is that a smartlist could be used to create a subset of the library you want to play on the radio. In the other thread, there is a similar suggestion to flag items to exclude from the radio. This is a good idea, but I fear that people will ask for increasing functionality around that feature.  As an example, I may want to exclude some tracks for a certain radio style play, and include it in another style radio play.

The main thing I think needs including is a way to select the overall general parameter of what the radio proceeding is selecting (e.g. Classic country or ?).

I also think the radio processing is doing more than random selection within a smartlist, otherwise I would agree it would be totally redundant with a random smartlist.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #86 on: October 20, 2007, 12:19:49 pm »

I totally support this. I was thinking the same thing late last night. This way, I could have the Radio functionality on my iPod. Everytime I would sync the iPod, the Smartlist with the radio functionality would create a fresh Radio playlist and upload it to the iPod. Since I sync almost everyday, the playlist on the iPod would change all the time. Now I realize that it would probably really increase the time that the playlist needs to get generated, but I would live with that.


...Michel.

Actually I was not suggesting using radio logic to generate the smartlist. I was suggesting using a smartlist to define what is eligible for play using radio.  As an example, I have ~16,000 audio tracks.  Of these, ~1000 are ones I would never want included in radio play.  Of the remaining tracks, they cover everything from old old jazz to soundtracks to rock/pop to easy listening to .....  It would be nice to listen to these ~15,000 tracks like they would be played on a radio.  Usually the radio station has a theme (All Country, Classical, etc.) and the DJ decides the details of what is played.  In this case, the DJ is MC, The smartlist defines the theme.

Anyway, this is interesting functionality.  We will see show it evolves.

BTW: If you want to export the radio to the iPod, let MC run (maybe while you sleep) and generate tracks played in playing now.  You can send playing now to a playlist and sync the iPod based on that play list.
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mlefebvre

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #87 on: October 20, 2007, 12:40:05 pm »



BTW: If you want to export the radio to the iPod, let MC run (maybe while you sleep) and generate tracks played in playing now.  You can send playing now to a playlist and sync the iPod based on that play list.

Brilliant idea! Thanks!

...Michel.
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jgreen

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #88 on: October 20, 2007, 12:54:46 pm »

If you use "preview mode"/warp speed, you can generate a PN list in minutes, rather than overnight.

FWIW, the slightly-random nature of the track picking enhances it, IMO. 

Seconding Glynor, I need SOME WAY to exclide tracks that are in my library but on an offline disk.  When radio hits an unavailable track it just stops.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2007, 02:02:53 pm »

Seconding Glynor, I need SOME WAY to exclide tracks that are in my library but on an offline disk.  When radio hits an unavailable track it just stops.

It should just automatically skip tracks that are not there - regardless of the reason why (offline disk, dead track, etc.).
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datdude

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #90 on: October 20, 2007, 06:16:47 pm »

Dude, I'm pretty impressed with the track-picking in non-seeded Radio (player/radio with no tracks in PN).  In fact, if anything, I think seeded palyback is somewhat problematic--radio seems to hug certain albums or artists.  If anything, gives an EASY hotkey for player/radio, so that we can keep the tunes comin!

Right, but the problem is that you have to explicitly set it, everytime you want.  It would be nice if there was an always on feature.  Granted I am being ultra lazy here, it's just a push of a button, but still thats kind of the point to set it and forget it (forever ;)).
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jgreen

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #91 on: October 20, 2007, 08:48:47 pm »

I believe I see your point:  under "tools/options/startup/startup actions", add the option to "start playing radio" right under the current option to "start playing current playlist".  I suspect this is something that jriver might want to do.
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datdude

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #92 on: October 20, 2007, 10:16:25 pm »

Sort of.  Notice when the Radio is On, even if you add songs to playing now, Radio still stays on, this is great.  2 scenarios currently cause it to turn off without explicitly telling it to turn off:

1) If I play a new song from the library interrupting the current song.  Can't this count as a skip, but still leave radio on so that when that song ends, Radio continues?

2) If I restart MC, Radio is turned off on startup.  It would be nice if Radio cleared it's algorithm cache so to speak, but was still On on restart.  In this case it would simply start when the last playing now song ended.

I would like to have an 'active passive' Radio mode that doesn't start playing music on startup, but is simply there to add music when the playing now ends (all the time), without having to remember to turn it on.

I do like the other 2 ways radio is used though, particularly the seedless kind!
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2007, 02:08:02 pm »

Sort of.  Notice when the Radio is On, even if you add songs to playing now, Radio still stays on, this is great.

Not for me... Whenever I do any of the Send To --> Add commands (or just right-click Add to Playing Now), Radio mode turns off (no matter if I started it via Send To --> Play (Radio) or if I started it seedless).  This stinks!  I'd really like to be able to manually select songs and queue them to be next to play, while having it go back to Radio mode when it finishes playing the ones I've queued manually.

It really seems now that if I manually play anything it disables Radio mode.  How are you adding the tracks and having Radio stay turned on?

In fact, I think when you manually queue songs via the add command with Radio playing it should probably use the newly added songs as the new "seed" from there on.  The only commands that should clear the Radio mode should be the ones that would normally clear Playing Now (Play based commands rather than Add ones).
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datdude

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2007, 05:39:53 pm »

Not for me... Whenever I do any of the Send To --> Add commands (or just right-click Add to Playing Now), Radio mode turns off (no matter if I started it via Send To --> Play (Radio) or if I started it seedless).  This stinks!  I'd really like to be able to manually select songs and queue them to be next to play, while having it go back to Radio mode when it finishes playing the ones I've queued manually.

It really seems now that if I manually play anything it disables Radio mode.  How are you adding the tracks and having Radio stay turned on?

In fact, I think when you manually queue songs via the add command with Radio playing it should probably use the newly added songs as the new "seed" from there on.  The only commands that should clear the Radio mode should be the ones that would normally clear Playing Now (Play based commands rather than Add ones).

When  manually drag songs to playing now in split view, Radio accepts them and continues playing aftewards.
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2007, 03:28:11 pm »

When  manually drag songs to playing now in split view, Radio accepts them and continues playing aftewards.

Interesting.  The drag-drop works, but the Right-Click Add doesn't.

Please make the right-click Add commands work and not disable Radio!!!  (It'd make me really happy.)

....

I don't know if I've mentioned it but....

I really really really really really really really really really like this.  My wife is equally enthusiastic.  She went so far as to say "I don't think I'll ever use it any other way again."

Hell yeah guys!
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dcwebman

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2007, 05:47:19 pm »

I played the radio all day and it really did work like a radio station. There were a few songs that it ended up playing about 4 times during the day, just like current hit songs. ;D

For me though, I have to be honest that I don't see a difference compared to the 4 hour random smartlist I have always used. Maybe it's just that most of my Genres are Rock and not many songs are rated. I'm rating as I go along so maybe it will be different eventually.
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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2007, 11:37:13 am »

"Your MC Radio"

"Your Media Center Radio"

Your, Being Your Music

If you allowed the Genres To Be Read, You Could Then Have Channels\Stations And A Seed To Start off The Radio.

If you have a Online Music Service, You Could Then Include Any Streaming Media Links...
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glynor

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2007, 12:01:29 pm »

3. Changed: Radio will advance nicely if it picks a file that was not playable.

Using the new build, I just got one that popped up an error message (missing file) and stopped playback until I clicked OK to dismiss the error.  Radio playback did resume once I clicked OK though.  The file was a CDA file that had gotten imported into my library (probably because I tagged it prior to ripping the tracks).  Either way, I agree that more needs to be done here.  Radio should seamlessly ignore/skip any track that doesn't play for whatever reason.
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Cmagic

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Re: Radio MC -- NEW FEATURE: Auto Playlister
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2007, 01:21:52 pm »

Hi Matt

Just discovered this new feature proposal, Great idea.
I should be lurking here more often.

Just out of curiosity what type of neural net algorithm do you use: straight MLP with Back prop or something more advanced ?

Again, nice idea,

Chistian

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