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[DonP]

Using Media Center, is there a way to reach my home UPnP server via FTP? It seems I can create a playlist but only after playing a song and then it does so from the PC's Temp folder rather than from the FTP account. If Media Center cannot do it, does anyone know if software that can? I would like to see the artist, album and song listing, then have it stream each song while playing it. Thanks.

Don

[JimH]

I'm confused on why you would want to use FTP.

If your client and server are on two different networks, try Library Server in MC.  You'll need to have a clear path through your firewall and router.

Maybe you could describe what you want to do first.

[DonP]

I am trying to reach my files through the Internet and FTP seems to be the old protocol I can find for doing so. By the way, the UPnP server is not Media Center but rather it's built-in to the newtork hard drive. I am trying to use MC only as the client.

[DonP]

I should probably add that I can play the remote files through MC now but can do so only one single song at a time. Trying to drag over a whole folder gives no errors but neither does anything seem to happen. I would like to see the listing of artists/albums so that I can play an entire album or playlist.

[JimH]

You would need to run an FTP server on the server side.

[DonP]

Yes, I know and already have an FTP server running (also built-in to the network hard drive) and the router is configured to allow remote access so I can access the files themselves. The question is about getting access to the files in Media Center and creating playlists, etc. How can it be done or is there some other client software that can do it if MC cannot?

[JimH]

It can't be done with MC.  You could use any FTP client, including a browser, to transfer the files.

[DonP]

Playing the files is easy and you're right, any FTP client can do it. However, an FTP client allows for playing of only a single file at a time (and does so from the Temp folder) and cannot create album/artist listings nor playlists. After my first posting, I found the the thread for a Feature Request that this very thing be made a part of MC so apparently it is not unusual to need to do it. If MC cannot do it, does anyone know of a client that can? It seems a natural part of MC so it's a surprise that it is unable.

[JimH]

It would be, in my opinion, an inelegant thing to do.  MC can already serve its entire library via its Library Server or UPnP server. 

[DonP]

I agree that it's inelegant but I know of no other way to reach a UPnP server across the Internet. Is there a protocol for UPnP? If so, I cannot find one. In any event, MC is not the server and no PC is even turned on at home when I am away. The hard drive itself with its own firmware-based UPnP and FTP is what I have available. Even if MC were the server, I cannot find any way to reach it across the Internet. Downloading all the files first to play them is even less elegant.

[JimH]

UPnP is a protocol, and I believe it can traverse routers.  Try a google search.

[John Gateley]

UPnP is a well defined protocol, not hard to find with Google search.

It can traverse routers, but is not meant to send content across the Internet. You must configure each router in the path to pass multicast traffic. In other words, you are trying to do something it's not designed to do.

If you want to play content across the Internet, use Library Server.

j

[DonP]

UPnP won't allow for remote over-the-Internet access unless is has some protocol like upnp:// as FTP does with ftp://. Without it, there is no way to set the router to access it remotely. If someone knows a way, I would love to hear it! I was hoping the Library Server might have a way to receive files via FTP but it apparently is very limited and does not seem able to do it.

[JimH]

Please try a search on google.  You'll find a lot of information on this subject.

[MrHaugen]

Please stop with the FTP questions. This is making me upset. No one uses FTP, unless you need to transferr large amounts of apps, documents, music etc. It's not used for listening to music. Period.

What you need to do is to set up a library server, find the TCP port the server is using. Probably port 80. You then have to forward the incoming traffic on that port, on your router on your home network.
You might have to open the port for outgoing traffic from the router on the other network if you are not anything but port 80.

[Mr ChriZ]

Please stop with the FTP questions. This is making me upset. No one uses FTP, unless you need to transferr large amounts of apps, documents, music etc. It's not used for listening to music. Period.

What you need to do is to set up a library server, find the TCP port the server is using. Probably port 80. You then have to forward the incoming traffic on that port, on your router on your home network.
You might have to open the port for outgoing traffic from the router on the other network if you are not anything but port 80.

From what I'm reading DonP stated at least twice that he is using a network based hard drive. It doesn't run Media Center, or Library Server, infact it doesn't run Windows..  It has a built in UPNP server and that's it.  So all the talk of running Media Server is probably upsetting him!

If I were to do a bit of foresite in to the future I'd say boxes like these are going to become very common and very cheap.  We've got one here, it's a full on ITunes server, and has 500GB's of storage.
Why have a whole machine sat hosting Media files when you can have just a network based storage device.
I think MC would benefit from supporting these things in as many ways as possible.

[MrHaugen]

Ok. I did not pick up that one. But either way, if the library should be accessed over the Internet, you should use a library server.
As JimH points out, UPNP will probably not work that great across Internet.

I belive you have to either get a VPN between the networks, to use the UPNP protocol with the hard drive (alternatively just used a shared library over VPN). Or you have to get a PC that acts like a Library server, and load the files from the external disk. Not using FTP or UPNP.

[Jaguu]

Yes, these are nice devices, kind of mini-NAS. They are not much bigger than one or two external disk cases and probably run kind of a mini linux on a chip. You get 5-10 basic file services and are mainly used as data storages or complete file servers (some have user management functions), so they can even replace a complete Windows Server in small working enviroments. Unfortunately the are not extensible and you cannot install any kind of software. They are very popular here in Europe and huge bestsellers (Synology is such a brand).

If you want them in combination with MC12, then you need a PC as a frontend. You may store the Media files on such a device, but you cannot run MC on top of them. I don't think they are made to serve external resources, but rather small inhouse Lan's.

[JimH]

Please stop with the FTP questions. This is making me upset.

LOL!

[DonP]

Yes, all correct. I don't know of it is Linux based although I presume it is because the two Raid 1 SATA 500 GB drives use Linux formatting.

Anyway, even the manufacturer, D-Link, says that FTP is the only way to go in order to reach the files remotely. They say that there is no way to do it via UPnP and, while I tried adding the URL to MC's Library Server on the remote PC, it seems to do nothing. I have been Googling for weeks before posting here as I am already a registered user of Media Center and it seems that MC has ALMOST everything needed to do it.

Don

[DonP]

I found a way to do this quite easily but sadly it does not work well in Media Center even though Windows Media Player has no issues with it. Using a program such as WebDrive (and there are probably others), an FTP server can be given a regular network drive letter so, for all intents and purposes, it acts like an other local or network folder.

As for using Media Center with it, MC seems to want to download everything while Media Player just indexes the folders and files as it should. As simple as this was, it's too bad that Media Center cannot do it itself as I agree with Mr ChriZ's assessment that it will become more and more desirable a thing to do as network storage systems gain popularity.

[MrHaugen]

The "way" you found is really a wierd one I think. I never heard of this.
Most developers and IT consultants are moving away from FTP. I don't see why that would change.

[DonP]

Of course but if you've been following this thread as I know you have, you will see that no one has presented anything better. As far as I can tell, there is no other choice to access the files remotely. If there were, I would certainly use it! My network storage device has only UPnP, which is NOT available remotely, and FTP, which is. That's it. I cannot install or run any local software and have to rely on what's built into the drive. If you know of another way, I am all ears! If there IS a way, it does not appear to be part of MC.

[MrHaugen]

Another way would be to visit you local school or similar, and ask for an old computer.
Set up VPN, and add your network disk. VPN don't require nothing to run.
Alternatively, if the computer is fast enough, use Library Server.

I have not tried it my self, but I think that's the best options you have if you want to use MC12.
Most of us have an HTPC or a server running I guess. Maby that's why this problem is not heard of that much.

[DonP]

Thanks but having a computer isn't an issue as I have plenty of them. However, I do not leave any running when I am away for days or weeks at a time. I need an option that does not require a computer on the  local system.

[Alex B]

I found a way to do this quite easily but sadly it does not work well in Media Center even though Windows Media Player has no issues with it. Using a program such as WebDrive (and there are probably others), an FTP server can be given a regular network drive letter so, for all intents and purposes, it acts like an other local or network folder.

As for using Media Center with it, MC seems to want to download everything while Media Player just indexes the folders and files as it should.

MC reads the file format info and tags only at the import stage.

Perhaps you could create a cloned copy of the library and change the base path with the Rename, Move, & Copy Files tool. The files would be already imported from the virtual location.

- or -

Simply use the same drive letter at home and when you are away.

I think you would need to disable the Auto-Import feature in both cases so that MC would not try to automatically check the files.

[MusicHawk]

I run MC and my complete library "externally" using two methods -- REMOTE and MOBILE; one might help you.

My master MC machine is in my "media" area at home, where I rip LPs and CDs, add/edit files, and manage my library (80-thousand+ tracks). But I never play music on MC in that location.

I used to use the master PC as an MC server, but that proved unreliable due to MC lockups/crashes while editing tags. The problem is apparently fixed, but it was such a big pain for a while that it forced me to abandon MC server.

Instead I devised a simple method of keeping separate instances of MC and my music files synched with my MC master PC. For synching I use a backup program because it can intelligently copy only new/changed files. (I use SyncBackSE from 2BrightSparks.com) The other key is to have all MC files in identical drive-letter/path locations on all PCs. (On all my PCs, MC is always in its default location, and all music and cover art is on a separate M: drive.) This process is transparent to family members, who get the latest music/cover art additions and changes without doing anything different, or even knowing there was an update.

REMOTE: For MC in my family room connected to the house amps/speakers, I run a separate instance on a separate PC. Each night a scheduled backup program copies any/all changes across my LAN from the master machine to the family room machine -- MC libary files and MC media files. Since the drive letters/paths are identical, MC on the family room machine sees everything as identical to MC on the master PC. I can restart or diddle with each PC separately and the other isn't affected. The copying of all MC program/library/media files to family room PC could easily be via FTP from a master PC located anywhere; the backup program I use does FTP very well. Another benefit is, this PC is a complete backup of my MC library/media files.

MOBILE: In my RV I use MC on a laptop with an external USB hard drive (320gb) to store all the music. I don't have a persistent wireless network connection, and I don't want to be moving massive amounts of data that way. So I use a sneaker-net to carry the pocket-sized drive between machines. Periodically I connect the drive to my MY master PC and use the backup program to copy all the changed MC library/media files (not quite all, because to fit the hard drive I omit lesser music tracks I don't need on the road) . Then I connect the USB drive to the laptop in the RV. The drive letters/paths are identical, so MC smoothly plays the library with no diddling with anything. And this USB drive is a fairly-complete backup of my MC library/media files.
 

The ONLY flaw with both systems is that MC 12 stores some key config info in Windows Registry, which isn't readily available to my daily backup process. I periodically move this by copying the keys, but not exactly a handy process. So my MC 13 wish list suggests that MC frees itself from Windows-specific architecture by switching to a classic text-type .ini file -- easy to copy and edit.

[rjm]

I use the same approach as MusicHawk however I wanted to preserve unique playlists on the remote systems and modified the synchronization procedure to achieve this.

Details here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=45061.0

For synchronization I use a utility called Super Flexible File Synchronizer. Can't say enough good things about this tool. It is outstanding software.