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Author Topic: DVD Region Limits  (Read 28255 times)

druid

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DVD Region Limits
« on: September 07, 2008, 02:19:53 am »

Was about to buy Media Center but didn't because of DVD region limits.

There are other issues with Media Jukebox which carry over to Center, limitations that are deliberate but not to my liking and don't really make sense (except from an Apple "we will control your files and how you do things, not just play them" point of view).

BUT

The real showstopper for me was video.  I have videos in region 1 (USA) and 4 (Australia).  I don't care about law because it's like buying a CD, ripping it to .mp3 and putting it on a mobile player that you purchased; it's illegal for some weird reason but you paid for it all.  I have bought these DVDs, not fakes but legitimate because I only buy from trusted stores.  I've paid money, I should be able to play them.

Let's leave aside the fact that Windows doesn't have native support for DVD playback, since it isn't relevant to MC.

I unashamedly admit I have made my drive region free.  I never, NEVER play illegal DVDs in my system, not one has EVER entered my drive.  Ever.  I abhor copied DVDs (unless I were to for backup and had already legitimately purchased the original).  I want to make that absolutely clear.

So let's say my drive WERE region locked; why is this not enough for Media Center?  Why does it need its own check?  I won't believe it does it through some Microsoft file, and that it's their fault, because Media Player Classic plays them just fine.

I really really like Media Jukebox, and by extension, Center.  I thought I could use it for a solution to how I used to use Winamp, for music AND video.  Unfortunately, the authors have chosen to include a section in their software that allows for anti-competitive practices and corporate control, not to mention disallowing fair-use, which is quite frankly easy to bypass anyway.  While I could buy and use this software WITH the other software that fixes it, there's no guarantee it will always work, and not only that, that's like buying a car that you need to then use something else to make it work.  I do NOT mean petrol, that's a given, just like you need a computer, or power, to use Media Center.  I expect to pay money for something that works, out of the box (so to speak).  Ok, no default DVD support is mostly Microsoft's fault, but including region checking in your player is your fault.

Ok I had to rant about that, sorry.  I really really like the player, I can't stress that enough.  I was moments away from paying for it.  But this just put me off, I didn't realise there were still software developers including this archaic anti-competitive, anti-fair-use check.  I'm glad I tried the demo first.

By the way, in Australia, a DVD player cannot be sold region free.  BUT, you can be told, or have a slip of paper with, a code to make it free.  I think just at sale it matters.  How about making a code to free it up, after purchase?  :)

Sorry about the negativity guys; but it's a serious shortcoming.

(And in the very very small chance that I am mistaken and MC DOES play multiple regions, er, well I'd like to know what went wrong, and will apologise.)
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gappie

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Re: Was about to buy Media Center but didn't because...
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 03:50:34 am »

So let's say my drive WERE region locked; why is this not enough for Media Center?  Why does it need its own check?  I won't believe it does it through some Microsoft file, and that it's their fault, because Media Player Classic plays them just fine.

i dont know, have dvd's from different regions and they play fine, but then again, my dvdplayer is region locked and i use a small bit of software to unlock it. never noticed that mc checkes regions, and i would be suprised if it did...

 :)
gab
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JimH

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 07:27:53 am »

MC just uses the software present to decode DVD's.  MC doesn't check.
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 09:25:35 am »

Yeah but I shouldn't need to run software.

And you say it uses software present to decode DVDs?  I am using CCCP.  From what I can tell it is not region locked.  It works with VLC from my google searches.  Do you want me to try that and see if it does the same as Media Center?

I can't work out what would stop it if CCCP is region free and my drive is region free.  But I will reserve judgement for now, sorry about that, but from where I'm sitting, downloading something like CCCP which is a fair assumption to be region free, and being able to play DVDs on my computer with other software (not Windows Media Player, but that's no surprise to me), and the drive is fine too..  Well so far the odd one out is MC.

Also, thanks for the subject change.  I hadn't considered it, but writing an open-ended one like I did was a bad idea.  I guess I was thinking of it like an email, not a forum post.  Sorry.
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JimH

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 09:35:11 am »

Not a problem, thanks.

Our Wiki has info on DVD playback:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Category:Frequently_Asked_Questions
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 11:03:21 am »

Hm..  I don't really understand.  I've installed the CCCP, before I installed MC I think (does this make a difference?) and read that wiki.  Codecs are NOT my specialty so I may have missed something, but I'm getting the impression CCCP does DVDs and that region does not matter?  If that's the case, MC should play multiple regions too, right?

I tried to look for something, but I can't seem to find it...  After installing CCCP and MC12 trial, is there something I need to do to make it use CCCP?  I don't think it has anything else to fall back on for DVD playback; I haven't installed any other codec packs and I haven't got any other DVD playback filters installed to my knowledge either (CCCPi doesn't show any either).
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2008, 09:40:22 am »

Sorry to push, but I'm still curious if I've missed something after having read the link you gave me and associated pages.

I wrote this (I will bold the important points):

Hm..  I don't really understand.  I've installed the CCCP, before I installed MC I think (does this make a difference?) and read that wiki.  Codecs are NOT my specialty so I may have missed something, but I'm getting the impression CCCP does DVDs and that region does not matter?  If that's the case, MC should play multiple regions too, right?

I tried to look for something, but I can't seem to find it...  After installing CCCP and MC12 trial, is there something I need to do to make it use CCCP?  I don't think it has anything else to fall back on for DVD playback; I haven't installed any other codec packs and I haven't got any other DVD playback filters installed to my knowledge either (CCCPi doesn't show any either).
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2008, 10:25:59 am »

My experience is actually the opposite. It looks like in my case MC does not care about the wrongly set DVD region. It playes the discs without problems.

I installed a new slim DVD writer to my laptop a few days ago. I had not played a DVD video disc with it before now. To my surprise playback in MC worked directly without asking me to set the region. Also ZoomPlayer and Windows Media Player played my Region 2 discs without problems. Only when I tried PowerDVD it displayed this message:



Apparently Windows XP had automatically selected Region 1 without informing me (or the sealed bulk drive was already set to R1). The system allows only 5 changes for each drive and now one is already used. This is a bit surprising. Previously I have always needed to select the Region on the first use.


On this PC I have set MC to use the PowerDVD decoder (v.6) for DVD video and AC3 Filter for audio.

I'd guess the region check should be handled by the first filter in the graph. Surprisingly it is Microsoft's default DVD Navigator (qdvd.dll). Maybe it does not check the region and PowerDVD uses its own filter which is working properly.

Here's my filter graph info:
Quote
Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
        CLSID: {79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\quartz.dll
        Input Pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'AC3Filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Video Mixing Renderer 9'
        CLSID: {51B4ABF3-748F-4E3B-A276-C828330E926A}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\quartz.dll
        Input Pin 'VMR Input0'
            Connected to pin 'Video Out' of filter 'CyberLink Video/SP Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {1B81BE0D-A0C7-11D3-B984-00C04F2E73C5}, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'VMR Input1'
            Connected to pin 'XForm Out' of filter 'Line 21 Decoder 2'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_AYUV, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo
        Input Pin 'VMR Input2'

    Filter 'Line 21 Decoder 2'
        CLSID: {E4206432-01A1-4BEE-B3E1-3702C8EDC574}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\quartz.dll
        Input Pin 'XForm In'
            Connected to pin '~Closed Caption Out' of filter 'CyberLink Video/SP Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_AUXLine21Data  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_Line21_GOPPacket, Format type FORMAT_None
        Output Pin 'XForm Out'
            Connected to pin 'VMR Input1' of filter 'Video Mixing Renderer 9'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_AYUV, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo

    Filter 'AC3Filter'
        CLSID: {A753A1EC-973E-4718-AF8E-A3F554D45C44}
        Host: C:\Soft\AC3Filter\ac3filter.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'AC3' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)' of filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'CyberLink Video/SP Decoder'
        CLSID: {8ACD52ED-9C2D-4008-9129-DCE955D86065}
        Host: C:\Soft\PowerDVD\VideoFilter\CLVSD.ax
        Input Pin 'Video In'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Video Out'
            Connected to pin 'VMR Input0' of filter 'Video Mixing Renderer 9'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {1B81BE0D-A0C7-11D3-B984-00C04F2E73C5}, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'SubPicture In'
            Connected to pin 'SubPicture' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DVD_SUBPICTURE, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin '~Closed Caption Out'
            Connected to pin 'XForm In' of filter 'Line 21 Decoder 2'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_AUXLine21Data  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_Line21_GOPPacket, Format type FORMAT_None

    Filter 'DVD Navigator'
        CLSID: {9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\qdvd.dll
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'Video In' of filter 'CyberLink Video/SP Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'AC3'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'AC3Filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'SubPicture'
            Connected to pin 'SubPicture In' of filter 'CyberLink Video/SP Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DVD_SUBPICTURE, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2008, 11:39:59 am »

Also the FFDShow video and audio decoders work without region problems on this PC:

Quote
Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {70E102B0-5556-11CE-97C0-00AA0055595A}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\quartz.dll
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'Overlay Mixer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_Overlay, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo

    Filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
        CLSID: {79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\quartz.dll
        Input Pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
        CLSID: {0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}
        Host: C:\Soft\CCCP\Filters\FFDShow\ffdshow.ax
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)' of filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'AC3' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type

FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Overlay Mixer'
        CLSID: {CD8743A1-3736-11D0-9E69-00C04FD7C15B}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\qdvd.dll
        Input Pin 'Input0'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'Input2'
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_Overlay, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo

    Filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
        CLSID: {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7}
        Host: C:\Soft\CCCP\Filters\FFDShow\ffdshow.ax
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type

FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Input0' of filter 'Overlay Mixer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'In Text'
            Connected to pin 'SubPicture' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DVD_SUBPICTURE, Format type

FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Input Pin 'In Text 2'

    Filter 'DVD Navigator'
        CLSID: {9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48}
        Host: C:\WINDOWS\system32\qdvd.dll
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type

FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'AC3'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type

FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'SubPicture'
            Connected to pin 'In Text' of filter 'ffdshow Video Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DVD_SUBPICTURE, Format type

FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

However, my old PowerDVD video decoder uses significantly less CPU than the FFDShow video decoder, which is good with my aging laptop.
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MrHaugen

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2008, 05:18:42 pm »

There might be thigs I have missed as I have not read all the posts here, but why not just install DVDIdle Pro, Region Killer or similar apps?
DVDIdle Pro is a must imo anyway as it skips right to the actual movie. Skips those annoying commercials as well.
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2008, 05:40:06 pm »

I'll reinstall MC and see what I can get.  I don't know what filter graphs are to be honest.  Perhaps I didn't read as much as I thought on the wiki?  Or maybe it's not there?  I'm trying to find out as I type this.

[edit]

Ok, I reinstalled Media Center to have a look, and surprise, the trial period is almost up, which is odd because I haven't been "trialling" it at all for weeks.  I've always loathed trials like this.  Anyway I have 8 days left to figure out this problem or I won't be able to test and therefore doubt I will buy.  :(

I don't want to buy a DVD decoder.  It seems ridiculous.  I can get heaps of other playback things on the net, for free and legally, so I'm not sure why on earth I'd want to buy a DVD playback thing.  Besides, why does Media Player Classic work then, for free?  This stuff is beyond me, both knowledge and the logic behind it all.

Anyway, back to the real problem; I still can't play.  Instead of automatic selection, I specifically chose the MPV decoder for DVD playback.  Now MC crashes.  Hm.  The FFDShow one crashes too.  And of course, back on automatic selection, it then gives me the incorrect region thingy.  Ha, for all I know, the last change I made WAS to region 1, which is what I am trying to play back currently!!

I don't mean to be rude (except my first post, which was misinformed, and I tried hard not to be at the time T_T) when I write these posts.  I just simply cannot understand why it is so hard, nor what to do to fix it.  Can anyone help?  All I really want to do is have MC play my DVDs without me having to buy more things and/or run more programs.

Thank you for any help I have received, and in advance for any more that I may receive.  I do appreciate it.  I have 7-8 days left for my trial period, after which I'm not sure I can test anymore.

[/edit]

As for installing DVD Region Killer, I have that.  I don't need it for Media Player Classic.  Why should I need it for anything else?  I don't have it installed, it seems pointless to run (exaggerated example) three million seperate softwares to perform one single task.

I can't install DVDIdle Pro.  I don't have it.  There's no way I'm paying for it, and therefore I cannot get it (because I refuse to obtain these things illegally).  So I can't really use it.
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MrHaugen

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2008, 08:50:11 am »

I had problems with regions back in the days when I used Zoom Player as my DVD playback app. Then I had to use the Region Killer.
Have a hard time beliving that MS makes a player to circumvent this limitations. Most playback apps do not have control over this.
Region Killer uses very few system resources, and have little, if any, impact on the user experience in Windows after it's set up.
If you can't make the compromise to use this application (or similar ones), then I feel a little sorry for you. You'll miss out on a lot of great features.
I for one, could not live without MC.

When it comes to DVD decoders, the CCCP should contain the only one you need. And in fact one of the best ones there is. No need to buy anything.
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2008, 09:35:30 pm »

No other solutions then?  No reason why CCCP is not playing regions?  I've messed with choosing different filters; some crash or just don't work ("Your computer is not configured to use DVD playback correctly" or similar message), and the others just tell me the region is wrong.  Using the MVP codec, for instance, straight from a fresh install of CCCP, and I've also tried resetting and reregistering filters in CCCP, it says wrong region no matter whether I use 1 or 4 (and I've never used any other in this computer, so there would be no other physically set setting).  There must be a reason for this!

And, less importantly than the above, don't feel sorry for me; I just want one piece of software that does the one job, not two or three pieces of software that .. do the one job.  Especially when it seems that it should be working, this seems more like a bug or mis-setup, and I want to try and fix it BEFORE the trial ends.  I don't purchase what I cannot trial, and if the trial runs out and I haven't got it working, then why would I buy?  And it's easy to say "I would buy if..." and not really mean it, but I really was just about to purchase it.  My fingers were itching to do so; this program, in general, works well (for me), looks good, and it means rather than just audio, I can have a library of video and pictures too!  That's wonderful!  But my videos mostly consist of DVDs.  And if I pay for something I expect it to work without the help of other softwares.  Naturally I know it's not as simple as that (they all need an OS software, there are driver softwares, etc etc) but region limits should NOT require a seperate piece of software all on its own.

I am not blaming JR for this shortcoming necessarily (although I was before and I do apologise about that; I really really did think I knew what I was talking about).
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Yaobing

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2008, 09:56:47 pm »

Just an idea - Have you tried updating your DVD drive firmware or driver?
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2008, 10:01:07 pm »

Well, not for a bit, no, but I updated it when I flashed it with region-free firmware, which would've been about ... a year ago I think.  The drivers I'm using are default I believe.

Would this make a difference in this case?  Media Player Classic plays DVDs, VLC plays DVDs on my system too.  I could just use them, of course, but I like the idea of integrating my media together in one library program, such as MC.  So, if DVDs already play region free, without the use of a software region limit breaker like Region Killer, should updating these things make a difference to MC?

Also, I know MPC plays DVDs without any external stuff, but since I already have CCCP installed, I don't know if VLC does it without CCCP.  Do you happen to know?  The reason I ask is I want to know if VLC uses CCCP, because if it does, I can then make comparisons in what works and what doesn't between VLC and MC.
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2008, 05:09:15 am »

It should possible with MC if MPC works. Both players are DirectShow players and use the installed DirectShow filters for DVD playback.

VLC is a different beast because it uses its own codecs. This is how it can have versions for many operating systems (DS is only for Windows), but it is limited to what is bundled. You cannot configure VLC to use a DS filter even when that would be needed.

I supppose MC and MPC have slight differences in how they access the menus and other DVD interface specific stuff, but I don't know if that has anything to do with the region check. Probably your MC and MPC just happen to use a more or less different DS filter set.


Can you play DVDs at all with MC? Any region? What is your OS?

Is your physical DVD drive actually set to any region? On XP you can check the set region by right-clicking the drive letter in WIndows Explorer and selecting Properties > Hardware > [your drive] > Properties > DVD Region

Here is how the "Region 1" drive I mentioned earlier shows up:




As I said, if Media Player Classic works MC should work as well when the same DS filters are used.

In MC you can access the filter graph by right-clicking the display during DVD playback (though naturally you would first need to be able to play a DVD...).

MPC has a similar feature and you should be able to check the used filters.
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2008, 05:29:37 am »

I forgot to mention that in any case a very straightforward solution would be to use two drives. The region code is drive specific.

Bulk drives are very cheap and in my experience they don't last long if they are constantly used, so it would not a bad idea to have two separate drives. If you are using a laptop or other PC without a spare drive bay you could consider purchasing an additional USB drive for "home theater" use. This would also extend the internal drive's lifespan.
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Yaobing

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2008, 09:53:29 am »

when I flashed it with region-free firmware, which would've been about ...

Not sure if this is good or bad.

Here is what Microsoft says about how it deals with DVD regions:

"How Microsoft DVD Navigator Selects the DVD Region"

"The Microsoft DVD Navigator uses the following method to determine region match while playing DVD discs on a PC:"

"The DVD Navigator gets the disc's region, drive's region and decoder's region. If the disc region is "all regions" then the DVD Navigator plays the disc. If the disc is not marked for all regions, the DVD Navigator checks whether the decoder has a preset region. If the decoder has a preset region and it does not match the disc's region, the DVD Navigator will return an error indicating that it cannot play the disc on the current DVD configuration. If the decoder's region is the same as the disc's region, the DVD Navigator will then check whether the drive's region is the same as the disc's region. If they are the same, the DVD Navigator will play the title. If they are not the same, then the DVD Navigator invokes the code to change the drive's region. If the allowed number of region changes has been exhausted, then the region change attempt fails and the title can't be played on that system. "
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2008, 10:05:52 am »

However, as I said earlier, surprisingly my standard MS DVD navigator allows to play Region 2 discs even though the drive is Region 1. This works with MC, WMP, MPC and ZoomPlayer. Only PowerDVD does not work.
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Yaobing

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2008, 10:18:28 am »

However, as I said earlier, surprisingly my standard MS DVD navigator allows to play Region 2 discs even though the drive is Region 1. This works with MC, WMP, MPC and ZoomPlayer. Only PowerDVD does not work.

It does seem to contradict Microsoft. My drives are set to Region 1 and I do not have disks from other regions. So I really do not know what should be the expected behavior.
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2008, 10:40:46 am »

You could set a drive to R2 or R4 and try what happens.  ;)

(You would still have three remaining changes.)
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2008, 11:04:02 am »

Quote
If they are not the same, then the DVD Navigator invokes the code to change the drive's region.

This part sounds bad. I hope the mentioned code shows a warning and allows to cancel before the change is applied.

Otherwise if you accidentally play a DVD from a wrong region a couple of times the region will be locked permanently and possibly the locked region is not your normal region.
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2008, 11:40:34 am »

Oh .. my .. god.

My drive has one region change left.  And .. it's set to region 2???  Far as I know, I've never played a region 2 disc... ... .. ooohhh yes I did, because I was in Japan for 6 months.  :`(

Nevertheless, without fail, I always used Media Player Classic, and it never asked to change region.  I already knew about the region changing, so I made sure to get region-free firmware right from the start.  Something isn't adding up with my system.

Nevertheless, before I installed CCCP, MPC worked just fine.  I never had to install anything.  The last DVD I watched with it was region 4, so it's not automatically setting regions, because at the moment it's set to 2 and the last time I would've played region 2 was many months ago.  Region 4 was played a single month ago.  Not to mention my tests just in the last week, where it was region 1 and region 4.

Still don't know what set it to 2 though since I always use MPC until recently wanting to use MC.

By the way, my OS is Windows XP Pro.  I could use a second drive on my laptop, sure, but I really don't think it's worth it.

I'll fiddle a little more tomorrow with MC.  Not many days left now; I'd really like to get this working, but now I only have one change left and even though I use hacked region-free firmware, I'd really like to leave at least one change there just in case, so I'm stuck not being able to test that now either (and I STILL don't know when it changed!!  Maybe once, but the other times??  No one uses my computer except me, either!).

Perplexing.  Why is it with computers problems that seem simple on the surface seem to run so much deeper?
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Yaobing

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2008, 11:57:29 am »

Nevertheless, without fail, I always used Media Player Classic, and it never asked to change region.  I already knew about the region changing, so I made sure to get region-free firmware right from the start.  Something isn't adding up with my system.

The region-free firmware is supposed to make the drive play any disk? Maybe Windows does not understand it? Either the firmware is not doing what it is supposed to do, or Microsoft is misinterpreting it.
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2008, 12:04:13 pm »

Nevertheless, without fail, I always used Media Player Classic, and it never asked to change region.

So play a DVD with MPC and check the used filter graph. The DS filter list is a menu item in MPC. It should be possible to configure MC to use the same filter graph.

You didn't answer my question: Can you play any DVDs with MC? Though if your OS is now set to R2 and you don't have R2 discs you may not be able to check if DVDs from the correct region would play.

I wonder if you have experienced a region problem at all. What is the exact error message (if any) when you try to play a DVD with MC?
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2008, 08:09:44 pm »

First of all, let me thank you for trying to help.  These questions and this information is the kind I needed, I really do appreciate it.  Thank you.

Ok, I'm not really sure if this is the "filter graph", and I can't get the display that I've seen as a list mentioned elsewhere, but here are the things listed in MPC and MC:

MPC (by playing DVD and right-clicking and going to the filter submenu):
- Default DirectSound Device
- Video Mixing Render 9 (Renderless)
- Audio Switcher -> Properties and Channel 1 (which is selected)
- MPEG-2 Video Decoder
- AC3 Audio Decoder
- DVD Navigator

MC (by going to Options->DVD playback settings, under List of DVD Filters - this was set up by me):
- Default DirectSound Device
- Haali Video Renderer (chosen by me under Video Renderer)
- ffdshow Audio Decoder (chosen by me under Audio)
- MPV Decoder Filter (chosen by me under Video Decoder)
- DVD Navigator

Use FFDShow for post processing, use bitrate monitor, and swap fast play and jump commands are all disabled.  I have tried using the ffdshow Video Decoder, and automatic selection as well.  ffdshow is the only audio I have, except automatic selection, which I have tried.

MPC is playing region 1 and 4.  It just loads them up, despite my drive being set to 2 (apparently).

MC is not playing either region 1 nor 4.  Swapping to the ffdshow Video Decoder gives me the DVD Playback Error message saying my system is not configured correctly for DVD playback.  When clicking on the error text, it says "An error occurred preparing to play DVD video.  The video decoder 'ffdshow Video Decoder' could not be used for DVD playback.  Please select a different video decoder in DVD options."  Switching to automatic everything results in the same DVD region issue I mention below.  Switching the video renderer to VMR9 Renderless and Video Mixing Renderer 9 etc. makes no difference.

This is the message I get with my current setup, and below that the filter graph info (I can still play, have it fail, but the fullscreen playback window allows me to right-click and copy filter graph info to clipboard!  I'm hoping this is what you wanted to see?).

Quote
The DVD-Video disc cannot be played, because it is not authored to play in the current system region. The region mismatch must be fixed by changing the system region (with DVDRgn.exe).

Quote
Filter Graph Info:

    Filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
        CLSID: {79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}
        Host: C:\YAMAI\system32\quartz.dll
        Input Pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)'
            Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'Haali Video Renderer'
        CLSID: {760A8F35-97E7-479D-AAF5-DA9EFF95D751}
        Host: C:\baitai\cccp\Filters\Haali\dxr.dll
        Input Pin 'Input'
            Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'MPV Decoder Filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'Subtitle'

    Filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
        CLSID: {0F40E1E5-4F79-4988-B1A9-CC98794E6B55}
        Host: C:\baitai\cccp\Filters\FFDShow\ffdshow.ax
        Output Pin 'Out'
            Connected to pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)' of filter 'Default DirectSound Device'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Input Pin 'In'
            Connected to pin 'AC3' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx

    Filter 'MPV Decoder Filter'
        CLSID: {39F498AF-1A09-4275-B193-673B0BA3D478}
        Host: C:\baitai\cccp\Filters\Mpeg2DecFilter.ax
        Input Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'Output'
            Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'Haali Video Renderer'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_Video  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
        Input Pin 'SubPicture'
            Connected to pin 'SubPicture' of filter 'DVD Navigator'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DVD_SUBPICTURE, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin '~CC'

    Filter 'DVD Navigator'
        CLSID: {9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48}
        Host: C:\YAMAI\system32\qdvd.dll
        Output Pin 'Video'
            Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'MPV Decoder Filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
        Output Pin 'AC3'
            Connected to pin 'In' of filter 'ffdshow Audio Decoder'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
        Output Pin 'SubPicture'
            Connected to pin 'SubPicture' of filter 'MPV Decoder Filter'
            Major type MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK  Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DVD_SUBPICTURE, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO

So..!  I'm .. befuddled.  Does this help progress the matter?  DVD navigator is showing up in both, I assume because it's required for Windows playback, but it's still working in MPC, and not MC.  I'm assuming the MPEG-2 Video Decoder that MPC is using is the MPV Decoder I set it to use in MC?

On a sidenote:  I'm going to see if there's updated region-free firmware for my drive, and also see if I can't get rid of the region setting and reset the change count too.
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Yaobing

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2008, 10:34:48 pm »


MPC (by playing DVD and right-clicking and going to the filter submenu):
- Default DirectSound Device
- Video Mixing Render 9 (Renderless)
- Audio Switcher -> Properties and Channel 1 (which is selected)
- MPEG-2 Video Decoder
- AC3 Audio Decoder
- DVD Navigator


You can try in MC selecting the same filters that are used in MPC (well not exactly, but mostly):

AC3 Audio Decoder             
MPEG-2 Video Decoder       

Video Mixing Renderer 9

(but you should not select Renderless mode since it does not work well in MC). I would recommend using Enhanced Video Renderer in MC though.

The audio decoder and video decoder names sound too generic. Could it be that MPC only use generic names instead of real decoder names? If so it will be hard to figure out which filters it uses.

EDIT: I just tried playing a DVD in MPC. It does list exact filter names. So you should be able to duplicate the exact same filters in MC, except the Audio switcher, which should not matter. You should also try changing the video renderer in MPC to something else (such as Video Mixing Renderer 9 windowed mode) to rule out Renderless mode playing any important role here.

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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2008, 11:54:15 pm »

Thanks for the help.  I can't actually select AC3 Audio and MPEG-2 Video in MC; they don't exist.  MPC has always just worked by itself; I really think it must be built in.  Otherwise, I don't know where it got the filters from, because I didn't install anything except DivX and the QuickTime and RealPlayer codecs, not the official ones.  CCCP is the first codec "pack" I've installed on this system, and MPC worked long before I installed that.

I also can't set it to Enhanced Video Renderer; that comes up with the same problem of not being set up properly (I suspect that the MPV Decoder does not support the Enhanced Video Renderer method?).
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2008, 06:16:57 am »

If using CCCP/FFDShow make sure you go into FFDShow Video Decoder configuration from the start menu and then in the codecs list find MPEG2 and make sure it's set to libmpeg2 or libavcodec (I've found some machines prefer one or the other, I don't know why), and also tick the DVD decoding box.  Otherwise it wont work.

This should be in the Wiki and I keep meaning to put it in there, but I still see wiki editing as some kind of dark magic.

JimH

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2008, 07:19:40 am »

If using CCCP/FFDShow make sure you go into FFDShow Video Decoder configuration from the start menu and then in the codecs list find MPEG2 and make sure it's set to libmpeg2 or libavcodec (I've found some machines prefer one or the other, I don't know why), and also tick the DVD decoding box.  Otherwise it wont work.

This should be in the Wiki and I keep meaning to put it in there, but I still see wiki editing as some kind of dark magic.
Chriz,
You just need an account on the Wiki, then click on edit.  It's really simple to do basic editing.
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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2008, 07:33:19 am »

I updated my DVD drive firmware, just so everyone knows.

I uninstalled CCCP, and reinstalled it.  Unfortunately, now I can't get any list of filters even when I set all to automatic.  I have gone into the ffdshow video settings and enabled (it was disabled!! :O :/ ) MPEG-2, but unfortunately now I can't test that.

I have run CCCP and reset settings and re-registered all filters, not touched a thing and gone straight to MC, but now it just shows none of them.  I'm really close to giving up.  I cannot believe it is so difficult to play DVDs; did I mention I hate this world of region locking, DRM, encryption and treating all customers as gonna-be pirates?  It *should* be as simple as this:  I have a DVD.  I have a computer.  I have a DVD drive in my computer.  I have video playback software.  The software goes to the DVD drive, and plays.  Voila.

Sorry, I just had to rant about that, and it is not JR's fault of course.  But I can't believe it's so hard.  Well, unless I buy some other codec; but I'm just having trouble understanding why I should need to.

Anyway, if anyone has any further suggestions I'll try them, but at this point since MC no longer has any filters on the list at all (sure, the dropdown boxes do, but even on automatic for all, there are none listed in the box in the bottom right), I don't really know how much more I can do.

I suppose I could uninstall MC, and CCCP, restart my system, install CCCP and don't touch the settings at first, restart, install MC, restart, then see, but by golly, maybe when I have more time than I do now.

Thanks for all your help so far guys; that last point seems pretty important and it REALLY needs to be in the wiki, whoever adds it.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2008, 02:45:30 am »

Small section added to Wiki. 

JimH

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2008, 05:51:26 am »

Thanks!
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2008, 08:11:39 am »

druid,

Apparently Media Player Classic MPC contains some included codecs after all (I didn't know that before carefully checking its options). Its MPEG2 decoder is based on the libmpeg2 library. The MPV DirectShow decoder filter may be different (even though it is created by the same developer).

In MC you can try a libmpeg2 based DS filter with FFDShow if you set it to use these options:



-- and select FFDShow in MC's DVD/video decoding options.

Naturally, you would first need to fix your FFDShow installation if it really is broken now.

Another free codec that you could try is DScaler 5: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/deinterlace/DScaler5008.exe?modtime=1140257948&big_mirror=0

A forum or google search for DScaler 5 would provide info about it.

EDIT

edited a bit to avoid confusion
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JimH

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2008, 08:22:13 am »

Alex,
MC doesn't include any DirectShow filters.  They must have been on your PC.  That's normal.

Jim
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Alex B

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2008, 08:28:43 am »

Jim, I said MPC (=Media Player Classic).

druid has said several times that he can play his DVDs on MPC, but not on MC (because of the region check problem). The different DVD decoder may be causing this if (as I suppose) both programs use the standard MS DVD Navigator.
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Yaobing

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2008, 08:41:48 am »

You could set a drive to R2 or R4 and try what happens.  ;)

(You would still have three remaining changes.)

I decided to sacrifice my change count this morning (it has 4 left). As you said, I could change it, then change it back and would still have two left. However Windows XP would not let me change the region to Japan without a region 2 disk in the drive. :(
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Alex B

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druid

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Re: DVD Region Limits
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2008, 09:29:22 am »

I got it working, but not the way I want.

I installed CCCP, didn't set it up at all, restarted my system.  I then installed Media Center, didn't run it or set it up, and restarted my system.
I then ran Media Center and tried to see if it showed up the filters or if it was still missing any for DVD playback at all.  Aha!  They were back there again.
I tried to use MPV decoder once more, but same region problem.
I set up ffdshow Video Decoder to do MPEG2 and enabled DVD playback.  Aha it worked!  Except...  with the region problem, same as MPV.

Now, before all this I had flashed my drive with firmware.  Now I have 4 changes left again, and it defaulted to region 4!  Not sure why...  But since it was no longer R2, I could test a region that I had discs for, and that was set in the drive (well, the software, the drive has RPC1 firmware).

R4 worked.  I didn't test with MPV, but I'll bet it will work similarly to ffdshow (this is still video decoders I'm talking about).

So I thought to myself, ok, I'll install DVD Region Killer and see if that solves the issue.

Well, it does.  It was interesting to see that when I go to the region setting (in hardware devices, then DVD drive properties), whatever disc I put in the drive, DVD Region Killer sets the region THAT way.  So it's displayable in Windows.  It surprised me.  And no changes had gone down.  Hmm.

Well anyway, using DVD Region Killer worked.  This doesn't really surprise me; but I wanted to play with Media Center WITHOUT using more software for DVD playback.

Now that I have my filter list back, is there anything anyone can suggest?  Is there a way to set the drive to no region so perhaps I won't need DVD Region Killer?  (I'm doubting that.)  It seems to be the DVD Navigator as has been mentioned before.  I don't know for a fact, but it's odd that MC keeps mentioning the region issue, until I'm running DVD Region Killer, but both VLC and Media Player Classic do not need me to.  I used to have to use DVD Region Killer with Media Player Classic, and I don't know what happened to make it so I no longer did.

Anyway, my goal is NOT needing this software in order to play with MC.  Is there any hope left for me, after all these tests and checks?  (At least I finally got a DVD to play in MC!  :P)
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