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[cwilliams222]

Have some wav files (12" singles) was trying to convert them to FLAC files.  Just installed the latest version of MC (13.0.54).

When I tried to convert the file to FLAC (Selected Quality = 8, verify encoding checked, add 4k padding block checked, and add seek table cheked), MC reported back that it was unable to convert file, ensure that the file exists and is of a supported audio format.

The file is in the proper location, and MC is able to play the file in its current wav format.


I then tried to convert the file to APE (Compression level set to Normal), the conversion process seems to run, and then at the end MC crashes.  This happens repeatedly (so far I've done it about 12 times).  I have saved the Windows XP created crash file and can provide that to whomever wants it.


I then tried to convert the file to MP3 (VBR - High), the conversion runs fine with no issues and completes with no issues.


I turned on logging in MC but saw nothing that made sense to me. 

It doesn't seem like it is the file (and I actually used multiple test files) as I can play it and convert it to MP3. 

So, what should I try and do next?  I have the MC log file and the Windows crash/log file that I can send to you guys, just tell me where to send it.

thanks


System Information:

Media Center 13.0.54 Registered -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 13\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Core 2 1993 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1047 MB, Free - 429 MB

Internet Explorer: 7.0.5730.13 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive D:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive D: TSSTcorp CDW/DVD TS-L462D   Addr: 0:0:0  Speed:24  MaxSpeed:24  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:


Interface Plugins:
  last.fm (Active)
  Library Server (Active)
  TiVo Server (Active)
  UPnP Server (Active)
  Lyrics Editor (Active)

[JimH]

Please try MC12 from the download page.

Don't set any special options on the encoding.  A quality option, on FLAC, for example, is probably irrelevant (lossless is lossless).

Check your settings for file locations, temp directories.

Crashes can be a lot of things.  My signature below has a thread called "Weird Problems" with some of them.

[cwilliams222]

Please try MC12 from the download page.

Don't set any special options on the encoding.  A quality option, on FLAC, for example, is probably irrelevant (lossless is lossless).

Check your settings for file locations, temp directories.

Crashes can be a lot of things.  My signature below has a thread called "Weird Problems" with some of them.

Had MC12 installed already - updated it to the latest build and tested, same results as with MC 13 (FLAC errored out, APE crashed, and MP3 worked fine).

File locations and temp directories looked fine, although I'm not sure if you were trying to get me to check on something specific.  Nothing looked "out of whack" to me.

I'll check out that thread you mention (Weird Problems) shortly, but no other thoughts or things to try?  Again, I do have the log from MC 13 and the Windows crash dump/file that was created that I could send if it would help or be of value. 

I did download a test wav file from the net and was able to successfully convert it into an ape and flac file in MC13, which would lead me to think it would be something with the other wav files I'm trying to convert (but not sure why the conversion to MP3 works in that case)......

[JimH]

Are the WAV files Read Only?

[cwilliams222]

Are the WAV files Read Only?

No they are not, and I have full control over the files/directories.  I verified this in Windows Explorer (and I would think if they were marked as Read Only, and that was keeping a conversion to FLAC/APE from working, then the MP3 conversion should work as well, but that conversion does work)....

The files are stored on an external USB drive (you almost always seem to ask that question at some point.....)

As a test, in case you asked about it, I moved one of the WAV files to the C:\ drive and tried the conversion, and received the same errors.

[Alex B]

I couldn't reproduce the problem in a quick test with some 16-bit/44.1 kHz and 24-bit/48 kHz stereo wave files. The FLAC and APE conversions worked flawlessly.

The problem must be caused something that is related to your specific SW installation or the files itself themselves.

Can you rip to FLAC or APE? Can you convert other files to FLAC or APE?

[cwilliams222]

I couldn't reproduce the problem in a quick test with some 16-bit/44.1 kHz and 24-bit/48 kHz stereo wave files. The FLAC and APE conversions worked flawlessly.

The problem must be caused something that is related to your specific SW installation or the files itself.

Can you rip to FLAC or APE? Can you convert other files to FLAC or APE?

Alex B - thanks for the reply.....

I am definitely thinking it may be the files themselves as through my troubleshooting (to answer questions from JimH and just because...) I have seen that:

- I can't convert these same files to APE/FLAC in MC12 (on the same machine)
- I can convert these same files to MP3 in MC12
- I can convert a randomly selected file from APE to FLAC (or FLAC to APE) in MC13
- I was able to download a sample wav file from the net and convert it to FLAC/APE with no issues in MC13

Just seems odd that I can convert them to MP3, but not to FLAC or APE, and the "error" that I get is different for each (FLAC = just errors out that it can't do it, APE = actually crashes Media Center 12 and 13).

Not sure what else I can do at this point....

to answer one of your points - I can't test ripping at this time, don't have anything to rip on me at this time.....

[JimH]

Maybe it's disk space.  The MP3 files are smaller.

Where are the temp files stored?  Check your file locations settings.

Where are the converted files stored?

[cwilliams222]

Maybe it's disk space.  The MP3 files are smaller.

Where are the temp files stored?  Check your file locations settings.

Where are the converted files stored?

Good question, hadn't thought of that.......

Don't think that is the answer though..

All Files stored on a 500GB external hard drive, right now it has 34.2GB free.  I would think that is enough to cover the conversion (and then some).

Temp files were stored on the C:\ drive, which had 40GB free, I even tried moving that to a separate external drive with 60 GB free, got the same errors.

I just went through and emptied the recycle bin for the drive and deleted a few other files, then retested the conversion and it still failed as it had before.

[gappie]

with what programm did you record the files, and in what format (bits and Hz). i remember a wav recording i made myself that did not wanted to convert. cant remember the programm i used to record it, maybe SAW or ntrack, and it was in the 11 days. i assume the file does play fine in mc?
how big is the file (not that i think it matters)?

[Matt]

Is it a compressed WAV file?  Could you provide a sample to matt at jriver dot com?

Thanks.

[cwilliams222]

Is it a compressed WAV file?  Could you provide a sample to matt at jriver dot com?

Thanks.

Matt,

When you say "sample," how big a sample do you wish?  The smallest of the files is 79MB, so I'm assuming you don't want the whole file.  How exactly should I create a sample/smaller portion?  Maybe a simple thing to do, but I am no audio expert.  If you do want the whole file, tell me where I can put it, and I'll do it....


Let me add a few other things I've found out:

1.  I was able to convert the wav files to FLAC using a separate program called Goldwave.  Just did a search on the net for a program that would analyze wav files, downloaded this one to try, and it was able to analyze the file (didn't see that it found any errors), and then do a save as to FLAC.  Seemed to work without any issues.


2.  I was doing some testing earlier today, and for some (but NOT all) of these problem wav files that I was able to convert to MP3, MC13's conversion also created a .mxm file.  From a brief net search, see that this file is a bpm calculation file.  No idea if this information is relevant to the issue, just thought I'd provide as much information as I have.


To go back and answer a question of 2 from gappie and Matt -

1.  In MC13, if I look at the tag information for the wav files, I see that the Compression tag says None(PCM)
2.  Bit Depth = 32
3.  44.1kHz / 2 channels
4.  All of the wav files play fine in MC 13 (and 12)
5.  The files range in size from 79MB up to 180MB
6.  Files are not DRM'd in any way (in case that question came up, as it seems to...)

I did not rip these files, so I have no idea what program was used.

[Alex B]

The FLAC & APE lossless compressors do not support 32-bit (& probably floating point) PCM audio.

I'm fearly sure that Goldwave converted the 32-bit files automatically to the 24-bit or 16-bit integer format. (What does the format info window in MC say about the converted FLAC files?)

You can convert the files to the 24- or 16-bit mode by playing the files through MC's Disk Writer (it's one of the output mode options) with a corresponding Bitdepth setting in DSP Studio. You should disable all other DSP and track transition effects, set playback mode to gapless, and set the playback volume level to maximum to avoid any other file alterations.

[gappie]

yes, as alex said, the 32 bit could be the problem. i guess that that was also the problem for me back then. just experimented with recording some files in 32, floating point , 24 and differrent frequencys, to see how it sounds and what would happen along the way.

btw: interesting thread

 
gab

[cwilliams222]

The FLAC & APE lossless compressors do not support 32-bit (& probably floating point) PCM audio.

I'm fearly sure that Goldwave converted the 32-bit files automatically to the 24-bit or 16-bit integer format. (What does the format info window in MC say about the converted FLAC files?)

You can convert the files to the 24- or 16-bit mode by playing the files through MC's Disk Writer (it's one of the output mode options) with a corresponding Bitdepth setting in DSP Studio. You should disable all other DSP and track transition effects, set playback mode to gapless, and set the playback volume level to maximum to avoid any other file alterations.

Alex B

thanks, makes logical sense.  Didn't see your response until I left work, which is where my library is, so I won't be able to check on this until either tomorrow or Tuesday (since I'm working remotely today and Monday is Columbus day).  I will let everyone know what I find out from your suggestions below.

Again, thanks for appearing to come up with the reason.

Curious on this though - if the issue is that the flac/ape compressors in MC13 (and 12) do not support 32 bit, why would they each respond differently to an attempt to do something with a 32 bit file?  Meaning, the FLAC compressor just errors out, while the APE one crashes the program?  Just seems odd to me, would think there would be some consistencey within MC13 on how it handles a type of file it can't really convert.

[Alex B]

Curious on this though - if the issue is that the flac/ape compressors in MC13 (and 12) do not support 32 bit, why would they each respond differently to an attempt to do something with a 32 bit file?  Meaning, the FLAC compressor just errors out, while the APE one crashes the program?  Just seems odd to me, would think there would be some consistencey within MC13 on how it handles a type of file it can't really convert.

The source of the problem is not in MC (as you noticed it can play your files and feed the decoded PCM stream to the encoders). The FLAC encoder's source code supports only bit depths up to 24-bit (and only the integer format). Josh Coalson (the creator of FLAC), has said that the decoder would in theory support 32-bit integer and that he may add support for encoding 32-bit integer files in the future. He has no plans for adding support for foating point files.

I think the situation is about the the same with Monkey's Audio, but Matt (the creator of Monkey's Audio) could answer this better. Perhaps he could also explain why the problem shows up differently with different formats.

[Alex B]

Matt,

Some time ago I suggested that MC's converter could have the DSP options available for file conversions -  similarly like it is possible to apply DSP when audio CDs are created.

Personally I would like to apply replay gain when I convert lossless files to MP3 and burn MP3 CDs for my car, but the options would also be useful in many other situations (like in this one here).

Perhaps MC could actually warn the user about a detected format incompatibility and offer to apply DSP for fixing the problem.

[cwilliams222]

The FLAC & APE lossless compressors do not support 32-bit (& probably floating point) PCM audio.

I'm fearly sure that Goldwave converted the 32-bit files automatically to the 24-bit or 16-bit integer format. (What does the format info window in MC say about the converted FLAC files?)

You can convert the files to the 24- or 16-bit mode by playing the files through MC's Disk Writer (it's one of the output mode options) with a corresponding Bitdepth setting in DSP Studio. You should disable all other DSP and track transition effects, set playback mode to gapless, and set the playback volume level to maximum to avoid any other file alterations.

Finally back to my library and can confirm that GoldWave did convert the 32bit file to 16-bit.  I believe I could have had the program convert it to 24-bit, but didn't know enough about the product/process to change away from the defaults.

I'm almost done using Goldwave to convert these 32-bit files to 16/24-bit.  Before I finish the last one I'll also try what you suggest above through MC as well.

thanks for all the help in tracking this one down.