Topic: Blu-ray & HD-DVD images (Read 6696 times)

stricko · « **on:** February 09, 2009, 11:00:55 am »

Hi guys, I've not seen much forum traffic on the subject of HD.

I've got a bunch of HD rips in ISO image format, is there any way of getting MC to play them?

glynor · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2009, 03:29:45 pm »

There's been a bunch of posts on it. Try searching for BluRay.

Of course, that only applies if you really care about support for a doomed-from-the-start plastic optical disc format, but to each their own.

stricko · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2009, 05:01:40 pm »

Thanks,

Your reply doesn't tell me a lot about bluray support but at least I've discovered that you need to go back to the main menu before you do a search! I must have been down in the detail somewhere when I searched for bluray before, and consequently got virtually no results :-)

Surely there is a quick and simple guide to setting up to play the HD disks, no matter how doomed they may be......

jmone · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2009, 05:43:08 pm »

Hi - I don't know why but the search is not bringing up many of the posts on Blu-Ray. I use MC to view then launch Blu-ray / HD-DVD iso's that are then mounted by Virtual Clone / played by TMT or PowerDVD then back again including some scripts - have a look at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=43879.0
Thanks
Nathan

Daydream · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:49:30 pm »

I see no reason to rip to ISO. Maybe some are purists and want the menus and the extras (which by far and large never mattered to me), but for me ripping to MKV makes more sense. Chapter track, video track (original, not recompressed, recompression is blasphemy), audio track (the best available), subtitle track (if required) all in one file. If audio is lossless (Dolby TrueHD, DTS MA) then I re-encoded to Flac 5.1 so it remains lossless and it can be played over HDMI, from a PC, in unadulterated quality, not like when you play it with I-don't-know-what-software that will downsample it because there is no soundcard that supports PAP.
And I can index them and do all the things MC allows without virtual drives and the likes. Looking to get a dozen of those 2TB drives WD is showing off

.

benn600 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:06:02 pm »

Can an MKV contain an entire DVD with special features? Since the site says it supports menus, I would be led to believe it can support all the content linked from the menus.

Perhaps I should consider converting my entire DVDs to MKVs?

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:09:53 pm »

Including Menus in MKV files is possible, but it is very ugly (they all have to be custom created for the MKV file). There is no easy way to "rip" a DVD fully, including all menus and extras, to a MKV file.

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2009, 09:23:25 pm »

I'd like to try ripping some of my material to mkv, anybody care to point me to a good utility to do this?

Cheers
Richard

fitbrit · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2009, 09:55:19 pm »

Quote from: rpalmer68 on February 09, 2009, 09:23:25 pm

I'd like to try ripping some of my material to mkv, anybody care to point me to a good utility to do this?

Cheers
Richard

I discovered Handbrake, which seems to be excellent. It'll only work with DVDs and other non HD-DVD or BluRay video files. They can be on hard drive or on disc and there are a bunch of features for the ripping and customising of the resultant file. You can choose the format you want e.g. mkv mp4 etc. and which sound codec you want etc. Good one-stop program with or without a GUI. Free download; just google it.

glynor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2009, 10:18:18 pm »

Handbrake and AutoMKV are the two best. AutoMKV is more flexible and capable, and Handbrake is simpler (but easier to use).

jmone · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2009, 02:00:13 am »

I must admit I've stored stuff as ISO and also extracting the desired tracks into a container. Both methods have merits (and I'm sure my HD-DVD Disks will be the first that need to be MKV/M2T'ed)

At some point MC is going to have to include support for playing Blu-ray disks (and therefore ISO) - not everyone will have the skill or desire to re-author their disks to an MKV/M2T etc onto their NAS. Most (including me) just want to stuff a blu ray disk in the drive and have it play.....

benn600 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2009, 12:58:05 pm »

It would be great if there was a format that would re-encode an entire DVD to a compressed -- lossless from the original quality -- down to a single file.

Blu Ray and HD DVD could benefit from the same type of file type too.

fitbrit · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2009, 04:16:17 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on February 10, 2009, 12:58:05 pm

It would be great if there was a format that would re-encode an entire DVD to a compressed -- lossless from the original quality -- down to a single file.

Blu Ray and HD DVD could benefit from the same type of file type too.

Do you mean the entire DVD including menus and extras? Handbrake will extract the main movie (or any individual file, I believe).

Daydream · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2009, 08:42:33 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on February 10, 2009, 12:58:05 pm

It would be great if there was a format that would re-encode an entire DVD to a compressed -- lossless from the original quality -- down to a single file.

Blu Ray and HD DVD could benefit from the same type of file type too.

Why would you want to keep an entire DVD (or BD, or whatever)? You'll have audio tracks in languages that you'll never listen to, subs you'll never use, extras that - let's be honest - will be watched only once, if ever. All taken space (which multiplied by a hundreds to thousands titles collection might matter in the end). And then, assuming that regardless in what format that "image" is saved, MC somehow gets to that point where it'll play that format natively, you'd still have to put up with - wait, it's coming - the DVD menus and I-don't-know-what cumbersome method the authoring house chose to let you go see the movie, or the extras or whatever.

Where as opposed to that a "clean" mkv track holding only the real content but not the hassle will play in exactly 1.2 seconds. For me that makes a big difference.

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2009, 09:10:44 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on February 10, 2009, 12:58:05 pm

It would be great if there was a format that would re-encode an entire DVD to a compressed -- lossless from the original quality -- down to a single file.

Blu Ray and HD DVD could benefit from the same type of file type too.

Actually, I agree. I wish both AutoMKV and Handbrake had an "original/passthrough" option for the video encoding type (as opposed to x264, XviD, and the rest), so that you could rip off of DVD and include the source MPEG-2 video in a MKV with AC3 audio without recompressing. It'd be fast and easy and all-in-one.

Someone should really suggest it on the AutoMKV thread, as he may very well implement it if someone asked.

benn600 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:03:37 pm »

I can't express how many hours I've put into encoding movies--when I spread encoding out to perhaps 10 computers--I had tens of thousands of hours of computer time devoted to re-encoding my DVD collection. I actually encoded my entire collection 3 full times.

Each and every time I came to the conclusion that the quality loss was horrendous. Then I started approaching original DVD size. I think the re-encoding process is dangerous in itself. Plus, I will never give up the special features again. This process forced me to give them up. The goal is to not EVER have to dig out the DVD. I've had it before where I would just encode the episodes, for example, then I'd have to go pull out my television DVD booklet and locate the show, season, disc. There are special features on tons of discs that I always regret not having watched earlier. One show I recently purchased the entire series to I am a huge advocate for and only wish back in the 90s I would have been able to watch it in prime time. But now, I get the advantage of having all the extras and special features. I am also not willing to give up the other subtitles (tiny!) or languages because I know bits of other languages and who knows when I may want to listen with another language.

I would really appreciate a full-DVD encoder system right about now because I'm literally out of server space. And I started looking through our movies. If we have it, then someone in the household deemed it good enough to own.

benn600 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:05:13 pm »

Quote from: glynor on February 10, 2009, 09:10:44 pm

Actually, I agree. I wish both AutoMKV and Handbrake had an "original/passthrough" option for the video encoding type (as opposed to x264, XviD, and the rest), so that you could rip off of DVD and include the source MPEG-2 video in a MKV with AC3 audio without recompressing. It'd be fast and easy and all-in-one.

Someone should really suggest it on the AutoMKV thread, as he may very well implement it if someone asked.

Now I would be interested in some sort of additional lossless encoding. I'm not too upset with VIDEO_TS files. If I ever want to use a clip from something, it might be a problem for Premiere or other video editors if you import an mkv. It might not know there is more video under menu item 1.

ThoBar · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:49:07 pm »

Quote from: glynor on February 10, 2009, 09:10:44 pm

Actually, I agree. I wish both AutoMKV and Handbrake had an "original/passthrough" option for the video encoding type (as opposed to x264, XviD, and the rest), so that you could rip off of DVD and include the source MPEG-2 video in a MKV with AC3 audio without recompressing. It'd be fast and easy and all-in-one.

Someone should really suggest it on the AutoMKV thread, as he may very well implement it if someone asked.

Off to the forum you go laddie... what're you waitin' for?

cncb · « **Reply #18 on:** March 09, 2009, 02:38:17 pm »

Is there any way to have MC import a Blu-ray (folder structure) and treat it like a DVD? I tried to add .m2ts as a DVD file type but it still imported each .m2ts as a separate file instead of as a "DVD folder".

jmone · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2009, 02:43:45 pm »

Nope - you can import the tracks but at this stage there is no thirdparty blu-ray "navigation" filter that MC could use, so you have to mux everthing you want to a single container OR play it with TMT (which can play blu-ray structure from disk).

benn600 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2009, 03:15:47 pm »

Quote from: glynor on February 09, 2009, 03:29:45 pm

There's been a bunch of posts on it. Try searching for BluRay.

Of course, that only applies if you really care about support for a doomed-from-the-start plastic optical disc format, but to each their own.

It is doomed but Blu Ray still provides the BEST quality picture and sound you can get commercial movies in. Downloaded movies are JUNK. You would need to download 50+ GB to get the equivalent quality. Over the air broadcast looks good but fast action smears horribly. The pixels are there but they aren't as HQ compared to Blu Ray. Compare the data rate of < 20 Mb/sec vs. Blu Ray which is much higher.

fitbrit · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2009, 04:54:39 pm »

Quote from: glynor on February 10, 2009, 09:10:44 pm

Actually, I agree. I wish both AutoMKV and Handbrake had an "original/passthrough" option for the video encoding type (as opposed to x264, XviD, and the rest), so that you could rip off of DVD and include the source MPEG-2 video in a MKV with AC3 audio without recompressing. It'd be fast and easy and all-in-one.

Someone should really suggest it on the AutoMKV thread, as he may very well implement it if someone asked.

I think Makemkv does exactly this- and it's as fast as the DVD can be read.

darichman · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:39:12 am »

Quote from: benn600 on February 10, 2009, 12:58:05 pm

It would be great if there was a format that would re-encode an entire DVD to a compressed -- lossless from the original quality -- down to a single file.

Ben, have you heard of ratDVD? It isn't lossless, but it does give you a single file preserving ALL features of the DVD... It's been quite some time since I tried it (my computer at the time wasn't quite up to handling it) and I don't think it's been updated for quite a while... but it might be worth another look.

If you decide to try it out, let us know how you go.

http://ratdvd.ca/

cncb · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:24:24 pm »

Quote from: jmone on March 09, 2009, 02:43:45 pm

Nope - you can import the tracks but at this stage there is no thirdparty blu-ray "navigation" filter that MC could use, so you have to mux everthing you want to a single container OR play it with TMT (which can play blu-ray structure from disk).

Even though MC can't play it back it would be nice to be able to import the "folder" into the library so that it could be tagged and played externally.

fitbrit · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:53:48 pm »

Quote from: cncb on March 10, 2009, 04:24:24 pm

Even though MC can't play it back it would be nice to be able to import the "folder" into the library so that it could be tagged and played externally.

Great idea. I've wanted this for a while too.

datdude · « **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:59:12 pm »

Quote from: glynor on February 09, 2009, 03:29:45 pm

There's been a bunch of posts on it. Try searching for BluRay.

Of course, that only applies if you really care about support for a doomed-from-the-start plastic optical disc format, but to each their own.

Our whole lives are doomed from the start.

Whatever medium comes out, there will ALWAYS be something better to come along...

datdude · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:03:32 pm »

Quote from: fitbrit on March 10, 2009, 05:53:48 pm

Great idea. I've wanted this for a while too.

That feature already exists under Tools -> Options -> Library and Folders -> Auto Import

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:05:53 pm »

I'm inclined to agree with glynor. The lifetime of Blu-ray will probably be shorter than DVD or CD and it will probably be the last plastic format.

Matt is betting against me. But he bet on Citibank.

benn600 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:51:27 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 10, 2009, 06:05:53 pm

I'm inclined to agree with glynor. The lifetime of Blu-ray will probably be shorter than DVD or CD and it will probably be the last plastic format.

Matt is betting against me. But he bet on Citibank.

I don't know about others in bigger cities but I have been very disappointed with the progression of faster internet connections. The luckiest are getting 10 or 20 Mb connections. Looking up on Blu-ray.com, I found that Blu Ray movies require 54Mbps. So that would be a few hours buffering plus downloading while watching the movie. Oh yea, and what about when we get 4K video? Something better?

The only real alternative is internet delivered content--obviously. It's either optical disc or internet. So we are relying on downloading content on this seemingly stuck internet not to mention needing servers to be built up many times more because if it worked and was convenient, it would take off I'm sure. It truly will be fun to watch what happens but my best guess is that there will need to be another format. But, we've all seen how MP3s and YouTube have taken over--both of which are despicable.

cncb · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:57:10 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 10, 2009, 06:05:53 pm

Matt is betting against me. But he bet on Citibank.

Citi today announced that they probably will be "profitable" this quarter. Surely that must be some kind of sign

?

In any case, the disc is just a means of delivery and much better quality and more reliable than downloads for what should be quite a while. I have a device that can play Blu-ray rips from my hard drive in all their glory and I use MC as the server so that is why I'm requesting that you add the ability to import a Blu-ray folder as a single "movie" like you do for DVDs.

jmone · « **Reply #30 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:32:43 am »

Quote from: JimH on March 10, 2009, 06:05:53 pm

I'm inclined to agree with glynor. The lifetime of Blu-ray will probably be shorter than DVD or CD and it will probably be the last plastic format.

Matt is betting against me. But he bet on Citibank.

I'm with Matt - pressing plastic disks are cheap and have a massive price advantage over alternative distibution methods, eg 50GB = US$5 of HDD space, a small fortune in download fees (at least in Australia), or US$100 for a 64GB ThumbDrive.

So...when can I play my disks in MC13?

benn600 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 11, 2009, 12:25:12 pm »

Overnight a hundred Blu Ray discs and compare that to internet speed!

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** March 11, 2009, 01:33:04 pm »

In the last 15 years, typical Internet bandwidth went from 1200 baud (1.2Kbps) to 1.5Mbps. That's more than 1000 fold increase. I predict that the next 1000 fold increase will happen in half of that time.

Local storage also went up at a similar rate. 200MB drives were $800 in about 1994. We throw 200GB drives away now. 2TB drives are here.

etc. etc.

The end of plastic is near.

cncb · « **Reply #33 on:** March 11, 2009, 02:48:35 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 11, 2009, 01:33:04 pm

The end of plastic is near.

Even so, the rest of us can enjoy the great Blu-ray quality for at least several years while you and Glynor wait for your downloads to catch up

.

jmone · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2009, 03:20:01 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 11, 2009, 01:33:04 pm

In the last 15 years, typical Internet bandwidth went from 1200 baud (1.2Kbps) to 1.5Mbps. That's more than 1000 fold increase. I predict that the next 1000 fold increase will happen in half of that time.

Local storage also went up at a similar rate. 200MB drives were $800 in about 1994. We throw 200GB drives away now. 2TB drives are here.

etc. etc.

The end of plastic is near.

Yup and plastic has gone from 640MB to 50GB in the same time and will no doubt follow the same Moores Law for density increases. The next version of plastic may have enough space to offer offer "uncompressed video" instead of what we have to put up with know (and think is good!).

Quote

So...when can I play my disks in MC13?

.....and?

Mastiff · « **Reply #35 on:** March 11, 2009, 03:22:12 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 11, 2009, 01:33:04 pm

The end of plastic is near.

You may be right. My wife actually uses her plastic like the end is near!

)p( · « **Reply #36 on:** March 12, 2009, 04:22:18 am »

Although we have already an up to 120mps connection in our area and I don't mind to download before watching I think bluray is here to stay for some time especially in Europe. Licensing content is a mess and we dont have the likes of netflix to make a big consumer streaming/downloading service likely to succeed in the near future. So yes I do hope for native bluray support in mc

peter

benn600 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:25:43 pm »

Quote from: cncb on March 11, 2009, 02:48:35 pm

Even so, the rest of us can enjoy the great Blu-ray quality for at least several years while you and Glynor wait for your downloads to catch up .

buffering... My main point is that by the time internet catches up we'll be better than blu ray so theoretically, no matter how great downloads get, engineers will make a disc with even greater capacity. Imagine if the next format held 6 times more (CD -> DVD -> BLU). Besides, we are running into other bottlenecks including energy to run all those hard drives. If everything is streaming, then every time someone sits to watch a movie or disc of any kind (billions a day I bet), these big providers would be paying for the energy. Now, everyone pays a little bit on their own. It seems unlikely at this point to say plastic is soon going away. I can't imagine any major decline for a while.

I'll close with saying I recognize the lack of desire for quality. With YouTube going crazy people may settle and be pleased with slightly better than DVD quality and not quite need Blu ray. It all depends if a desire for high quality, excellent playback ever returns. I mean YouTube is just horrible to look at. The HD stuff tries to have HD pixel counts but doesn't throw much additional data at them so they are bad pixels...just nice blocks of nothingness.

Mastiff · « **Reply #38 on:** March 12, 2009, 01:24:49 pm »

Hear, hear! YouTube is doing the same thing for video in the new generation that low quality mp3's are doing for audio. They just don't care about quality. I try to educate my kids, and at least my 13 year old can clearly tell what's HD and what's DVD on my CRT projector. But he can still watch YouTube hour after hour without being annoyed by the low quality. Me? I can maybe take one music video or two minutes of people falling down in various "amusing" ways, but that's it for me.

Daydream · « **Reply #39 on:** March 12, 2009, 11:29:06 pm »

I would point a couple of other aspects than bandwidth. Do you believe the average folks will switch from acquiring physical discs to some illusory internet delivery, when for a decade whatever form and shape it tried to take it was marred with DRM, and all the myriad of schemes for the big money studios to make even more money when nobody really cared for what you got for your money? No way.

I do admit the plastic has its weaknesses but the biggest one is plastic itself not some rival method of delivery. When you say plastic you mean discs, which in one form or another are the same for years, because of the utter incapability of the industry (music or movies) to change, for fear they will have to replace the zillion of current players which are pretty much the same, short of diodes, a chip and 3 wires. Think what you can do with the plastic. Why didn't they create a format/case that wouldn't require the unprotected surface to be handled; something like a caddy, an enclosure (that could replace the jewel case entirely). Noooooooo, that will also require to change the loading mechanism everywhere, and more important will create a product that will last forever, short of running a truck over it. It needs to be frail, to break, to scratch, so you go buy it times and again while they laugh all the way to the bank.

As long as both the need to have it and to produce it will exists, the plastic will reign supreme, regardless if we have fiber, your private satellite orbiting atop of your head and the likes.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Blu-ray & HD-DVD images (Read 6696 times)