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[Gatobrit]

Hi - I saw JimH's posting in the v330 release thread. I've been on this subject a few times recently so I decided to stake out my "wish list".

Songs being added to PN should only be shuffled when the shuffle button is on in the player window. Period.

If the shuffle button is on any songs added to PN should be shuffled before being added to PN. That is, add the songs where selected in the Send To but shuffle them or not if shuffle is on / off but leave everything else in PN alone.

If you want to shuffle the contents of PN, right click on PN and select "Reshuffle". In this case the currently playing song would end up as #1 in PN. Another option enhancement would be to reshuffle those songs below the currently playing song only but this isn't a high priority for me.

Hitting the shuffle button (either on or off) should under no circumstances I can think of change the order of PN.

A real wish list item for me and probably v.9 would be to mark a playlist to always be played in the specified order regardless of the shuffle button state.

[ZRocker]

I think another great feature (and less confusing one) would be if MJ just simply supported RANDOM playback and let the user choose/enable what type of 'shuffling' he/she wants.  Everybody is always confused/upset about the shuffling implementation (that I've seen for almost 2 years now).  Seems like a simple Random playback On/Off would be much easier...MJ would just dynamically (in realtime) determine which song in the Playing Now playlist to play next (no shuffling...just randomized playback).  Everybody understands that because every CD player they've had/used for the last 17 years has/had it.  Just K.I.S.S.  (my opinion...your's may vary...LOL)

[Gatobrit]

ZRocker - it is not playing fair if you're going to think logically about it.

I've been an MJ user so long I am just so used to working with it's implementation of shuffle.

You are indeed correct. Your suggestion is probably the best, simplest, easiest to understand shuffle implementation.

[ZRocker]

Gatobrit,

Yea...I get accused of that alot (being too logical).  Seems like the convoluted shuffling method implemented in MJ now is just too 'silly' (I never use it) and not what the end-user really wants/expects (and, probably, more complex to code than a simple Random playback On/Off feature...again, just my opinion).

[Matt]

My suggestion for version 9: (please let me know if you wouldn't like this implementation)

- Shuffle works just like Z said -- it'll mean you won't know what's coming next

- Anytime you select some tracks in a list, you'll be given the "Reshuffle" option in the right-click menu, so you can shuffle just pieces of a playlist or whatever

Would that make everybody happy?

Thanks for any feedback.

-Matt
JRiver, Inc.

[Gatobrit]

Matt - seems reasonable to me.

However, in the spirit of "give an inch..." - is there any chance the inconsistency of adding to PN that Scronch and others report can be fixed in v.8??  

So, songs added to PN are shuffled or not shuffled depending upon the shuffle button state?

[ZRocker]

I'm not saying get rid of shuffle (I think you guys like it)...just let the user decide if Shuffle or Random is what they want.  I truly want Random as I don't want to know what is coming up next (I like surprises...that don't crash my PC (haha)).

Oh...I do like the Reshuffle a list or selected tracks idea...that seems useful if you want to Randomize a fixed playlist.

[Bob L.]

I like Matt's idea.  And if nothing is selected how about a message telling the user that a selection must be made to start the shuffle?

Bob L.

[Nikolay]

Here are the entries from the history log of build 331:
6. Fixed: Sending files to playing now using Send to menu with shuffle on would not reshuffle new files.
7. Changed: Pressing Shuffle button would not reshuffle files, just switch modes.

Will that satisfy everybody?

Nikolay

[Gatobrit]

Nikolay - I assume that if the shuffle button state is on it will shuffle when adding to PN and if it's off then it will not. In which case I'm happy.

I'm really happy with #7!!!

[Holden]

ZRocker said:



This suggestion sounds very acceptable - I like it.

Matt replied:


- Shuffle works just like Z said -- it'll mean you won't know what's coming next

- Anytime you select some tracks in a list, you'll be given the "Reshuffle" option in the right-click menu, so you can shuffle just pieces of a playlist or whatever

Would that make everybody happy?>

Speaking for myself - Yes it would. And thank you Matt and JRiver for being so cooperative.

Holden

[AlonsoN]

Not be a spoil sport but I really like Gatobrit's plan (and how I assume MJ .331 will work)

I don't think that haveing the songs in PN play in random order, rather than top to bottom, will go over well because:

-It's conterintuitive:  You expect the song after the current to play next.  And we all know that counterintuitive=confused newbe's=lost new users.

-It does not let you shuffle then later decide to line up a song to play next, which I do a lot as the mood strikes me.

-MJ is not a CD player, and has an interface much more capable than and CD player's interface, and thus we expect it to tell us what's going on, and what is going to play next.

OTOH the Gatobrit plan makes perfect sense, and is how I expected it to work in the first place.  And it would work like this, right?
-If you add songs to PN with Shuffle on, then the added songs are shuffled and added after last song in PN.
-Same for Send To>PN>Add(shuffled)
-If you want everything shuffled then go to PN and hit Reshuffle.

It would be nice to be able to choose
-Shuffle Selected And Add To PN
or
-Add Selected To PN And Shuffle All


, let the user know what comes next and modify the shuffle.

[Scronch]

As I think everybody knows by now, I prefer the way Gatobrit explained it.

You may want to implement a separate "Random" option, but please do not get rid of Shuffle.  Think about the words: "Shuffle" means just what the current concept is--to shuffle the order of the songs (like cards in a deck), and then end up with them in some new (shuffled) order--which you can see in PN (like going through the deck of cards).  "Random" means the currently-played pointer would jump around in PN.  I have no problem with that (although I wouldn't use it).

I need to be able to see what the result of Shuffle is.  If 5 Beatles songs end up together in a block of 8 songs, I fix that manually.  With Random, I couldn't tell what's coming.  This all brings up my Shuffle requests from long ago, namely "No more than X songs from the same artist within Y minutes", and clubbing, and so on.

So please do not get rid of Shuffle in V9.  It would really mess things up.

Scronch

[Callithumpian]

Gatobrit for President of a shuffled Republic!

One problem with "random" (and its one of the reasons I left Winamp) is that if you stop playback then restart, you re-hear the same songs.

Listen to that Gatobrit man - he is thinkin'o'right and 80331 is as near to shuffle perfection as a flawed universe will allow.

[ZRocker]

Callithumpian,

One problem with "random" (and its one of the reasons I left Winamp) is that if you stop playback then restart, you re-hear the same songs.

That's all 'fixable' with good programming...I know I could do it (for example) smart enough.