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Author Topic: No IE in European Win7  (Read 4114 times)

Daydream

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No IE in European Win7
« on: June 17, 2009, 02:15:22 am »

Just a heads-up. In Win 7 you can uninstall IE8 completely. If you do that the Help - Buy option doesn't work anymore, at least it didn't for me. Not a problem upgrading (grabbed another computer around), but just thought to mention that.
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Dirhael

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No IE in European Win7
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 06:35:27 am »

Just a heads-up. In Win 7 you can uninstall IE8 completely. If you do that the Help - Buy option doesn't work anymore, at least it didn't for me. Not a problem upgrading (grabbed another computer around), but just thought to mention that.

Indeed. It's also important to keep in mind that the European version of Windows 7 will not be including Internet Explorer at all. I have no idea what the results of this will be, but hopefully they'll at least keep the MSHTML component and all that. If not, well it sure is going to mess up a lot of applications, including MC.
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MrHaugen

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No IE in European Win7
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 06:54:25 am »

European W7 DVD's will probably include both versions. One with and one without IE. To not have any browser installed on a OS by default is just ridiculous imo, but It might be good for the competition to have this rules though. Why can't MS just implement all popular browsers like IE, Chrome, Firefox and Opera and let the customer choose? Pre-installed W7's from different laptop companies etc. will hopefully contain something like this.
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Dirhael

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No IE in European Win7
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 07:00:18 am »

European W7 DVD's will probably include both versions. One with and one without IE. To not have any browser installed on a OS by default is just ridiculous imo, but It might be good for the competition to have this rules though. Why can't MS just implement all popular browsers like IE, Chrome, Firefox and Opera and let the customer choose? Pre-installed W7's from different laptop companies etc. will hopefully contain something like this.

I hope so, but I suppose we'll just have to see. Then again, if they're planning on completely stripping away any trace of IE in the EU version of Win7 then surely they must have informed developers of this significant change. After all, there's crazy amounts of software that'll break without the various IE components.

As for implementing a ballot screen or something similar and let customers choose the browser, that would certainly be my preferred solution as well. I'm not so sure it'll happen, but we can all hope :)
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ThoBar

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 08:33:11 am »

Are they forcing Apple into this also? How about Linux?

It would seem a bit ridiculous to only insist MS do it... (I do like the option of the non/un-install if I choose it)
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MrHaugen

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 09:12:56 am »

Only Microsoft at this time. The reason is the high market share they got with the Windows OS. That European authorities (or what ever) think that destroys the market for other companies programming browsers (and I totally agree). They had some sort of court forcing MS to make special editions. The same goes for a European version without Media Player installed as well. Was like that for XP and also Vista I believe. Now comes the time for some customizing of W7.
Windows Media Player I can gladly part with, but I don't want to install an OS with no browser. Always good to have an alternative one, and for apps that depends on IE.
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ThoBar

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 09:45:56 am »

Only Microsoft at this time. The reason is the high market share they got with the Windows OS. That European authorities (or what ever) think that destroys the market for other companies programming browsers (and I totally agree). They had some sort of court forcing MS to make special editions. The same goes for a European version without Media Player installed as well. Was like that for XP and also Vista I believe. Now comes the time for some customizing of W7.
Windows Media Player I can gladly part with, but I don't want to install an OS with no browser. Always good to have an alternative one, and for apps that depends on IE.
FWIW (and because I dont want to turn this into a debate on the issue), I dont have a problem with the ruling per se (I'm not attached to any browser), but as the saying goes... "if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander"

My question was aimed at garnering information for myself - I should probably have not posted, and Googled, Yahoo'd or Bing'd the answer ;)
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MGD_King

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 07:43:51 pm »

Why can't MS just implement all popular browsers like IE, Chrome, Firefox and Opera and let the customer choose? Pre-installed W7's from different laptop companies etc. will hopefully contain something like this.

I don't agree with is at all because it's not Microsoft's responsibility to provide competitor's applications on their OS. I think the whole idea of Microsoft not supplying a browser that they created and own as part of their operating system rediculous. It's like telling Chevy that they must give the option of installing a Ford or a Dodge engine in their trucks. If the EU wants fair competition with browsers, then the EU should be forcing Firefox to create it's own operating system. They complain that Microsoft is doing unfair practices with their browswer but they're not complaining about what operating system people use? Doesn't make much sense to me.
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Daydream

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 08:26:19 pm »

Interestingly Chevy is not the market, is a player on the market. When it comes to MS, they are almost in a position to own the OS market. At around 90% or whatever is the Windows market share of all OSes, whatever MS sends out with the OS becomes law, partly because of the sheep mentality of most users which are by far and large not computer savvy.

So it's a unique position. A small part of me is annoyed that all the other big players in other IT markets ran to support above-the-state authorities (EU) to enforce a point of view (whatever that point was). I'll be curious if it'll cut both ways. It's not a perfect example 'cause it's more difficult to put your finger on the problem, but will they go after Google to loosen their grasp on the ad market?

In my eyes MS lost from a different angle. Why didn't they make IE the best browser ever, consistently? They can't? MS could've bought every interesting IT start-up and put them together to work on this. But no, 'cause it's a different mentality with their inhouse software. They still think their stuff is the best just by saying so. They don't build software to be the best in a competition, they build it to be the only player, and to facilitate future practices to remain the only one. If IE was better than Firefox and Chrome and Opera and Safari would you imagine the public uproar when somebody, anybody would try to remove it from being front and center in the public's eyes? So while I don't really like the solution, I can't say they don't deserve it. There's no way they are going to be allowed to cling on the browser market share by alternative means, while failing to be innovative. And when they are innovative they're late.
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Frobozz

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 08:49:03 pm »

Sigh.  So now Media Center, Media Jukebox, and hundreds of other applications are going to need to add code to their install programs to check for IE and install IE if it is not present.  There are many many applications that use the IE WebControl.  It's how you do things in Windows if you're a software developer.  If you need to display HTML or do HTML parsing you are most likely going to use the IE WebControl because it is there, is easy to use, and gets automatic updates from the OS if there are security issues.

People are going to find out just how many applications rely on IE for some features.  Those features are embedded.  You can't just switch to Firefox or Opera.  The applications would need to be rewritten.

I'm looking at a Wikipedia article for a band in Media Center 13 right now.  It relies on IE to display the web page.
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MGD_King

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 08:59:46 pm »

Interestingly Chevy is not the market, is a player on the market. When it comes to MS, they are almost in a position to own the OS market. At around 90% or whatever is the Windows market share of all OSes, whatever MS sends out with the OS becomes law, partly because of the sheep mentality of most users which are by far and large not computer savvy.
And that's MS's fault?
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Dirhael

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 09:27:09 pm »

Sigh.  So now Media Center, Media Jukebox, and hundreds of other applications are going to need to add code to their install programs to check for IE and install IE if it is not present.  There are many many applications that use the IE WebControl.  It's how you do things in Windows if you're a software developer.  If you need to display HTML or do HTML parsing you are most likely going to use the IE WebControl because it is there, is easy to use, and gets automatic updates from the OS if there are security issues.

People are going to find out just how many applications rely on IE for some features.  Those features are embedded.  You can't just switch to Firefox or Opera.  The applications would need to be rewritten.

I'm looking at a Wikipedia article for a band in Media Center 13 right now.  It relies on IE to display the web page.

They most likely won't touch that component at all. You can already uninstall IE8 in Windows 7, but even if you do the component remains so as not to break other programs that rely on it.
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MrHaugen

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Re: No IE in European Win7
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 01:52:24 am »

They WILL remove the IE and probably WMP from the installation, but the people can choose what version to install. Most likely 98% of the people will install W7 with IE anyway. The ones that don't will probably install it when they find programs that don't function without. Since XP was releaset without IE I have never actually seen this version on a client. Only in the MSDN library :) So it's not a problem at all. It's a law with little effect.

Only problem here is the great market size of Microsoft platforms, and hence the European ruling in the court. I understand completely why MS want to deliver IE with Windows, but I also understand why they are forced to make a version without.
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