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[Vocalpoint]

Howdy,

As I find myself really enjoying MC as I prepare to upgrade from v13 to v14 - I got to thinking about how this singular app is starting to get real close to completely replacing a number of other utilities I use regularly as part of my audio preparation workflow.

Currently - in addition to MC - I regularly use a combo of Plextools, EZ-CD Extractor, Tag & Rename and dbPowerAmp to get the job done. As you might expect - trying to come up some sort of standardized workflow with all this stuff can be challenging.

So in the past few weeks - I thought I would try an experiment - use MC exclusively for a period of a couple of weeks to see if I could get all my audio prep done in one app rather than leaning on 3 or 4 different tools.

For the most part - it works okay...but as I worked my way thru rippin', convertin' tagging and especially renaming - I wanted to get feedback from the gang (and hopefully the MC gang) on some suggestions.Granted - my workflow will be as different as the next guys - but for the most part I think we all:

0. Have a general "staging" area that acts as a work zone as we prep the files for inclusion into the library
1. Add tracks via rip from CD or from "extraction" from an image
2. Convert tracks from one format to another
3. Tag the living crap outa whatever format we like to use
4. Have a least a couple of Directory/naming schemes we use consistently...

For me in my MC Exclusive experiments:

0. Staging Area: In my workflow - I stage everything - that is - I get the files into FLAC format (generally) then tag and then rename. Nothing gets "imported" into MC on the fly no matter what it is. All tracks get ripped to a specific location and it's there that I perform all the work. So when I finally wrapped my head around what MC can do with the "Drives and Devices" area on the tree - I starting "getting" how this app could start to replace all the others.

1. Rip from Disk - Works great in MC. Can set it up to rip to my staging area with enough solid tag data to get started. Would like to see AccurateRip incorporated or some other "secure" type infrastructure to give me some sense of "Am I getting the most accurate rip that I can get?" Currently in MC - I don't know. Would also like the ability to set the album cover art prior to starting the rip. For the most secure and accurate rips - I generally lean on Plextools and/or dbPowerAmp for ripping. EZ-CD is working it's way up too...and it does cover art on the fly.

1a.Rip From Cue Sheet: " Rip" is the wrong word - extract would be better and MC is real weak in cue sheet usage. I frequently need to convert archived EAC images that are basically one big wav file and a cue sheet. No way that I can see to pull a cue into MC and have it extract out the separate tracks as designated by the cue sheet. Have to revert back to EAC or EZ-CD Extractor for these.

2. Tag - The more I use MC - the more I like it - I just find the tagging experience here to be clunky for some reason (and I think I know what it is - see below). Tag & Rename and EZ-CD Extractor beat MC down hard in the tagging department due to the singular view of all relevant data in one window.

3. Renaming: MC has some very powerful tools in this department although my "renaming" needs are fairly simple. Again - I found MC to be clunky here too (and I know why - see below) Overall renaming can be handled fine in any of the above mentioned apps in additional to of course MC.

4. Convert - Once the tracks are completely tagged in the staging area - I need to convert them to get my final MP3's for the library. Since I do not add anything to library during my entire process (and I don't want the master FLAC's in the library anyway) - there is no way to MC to perform a batch convert by selecting ten albums from within the main window. The best I could come up with is to access the staging area from via Drives and Devices area and convert them one folder at a time. Luckily I can use the redirect functions in the Encoder windows to place the files into the right library. EZ-CD Extractor and dbPowerAmp with their batch functionality (like grabbing a bunch of folders and batching them all out - with renaming rules) makes this step a breeze.

5. Add to Library - once the files reach their final destination in the main library - I just run Auto Import in MC and I am done.

Now - my suggestion - and why I think I had a bad case of the "clunkys". As I watched myself try and complete all the necessary steps within MC alone - it became obvious very quickly that the clunkiness was coming from all the mouse clicks and all the "travelling" around the interface I had to do...from the tiny Tag Panel to having to right click to access Cover Art, then right click to Rename and then right click to Analyze Audio (forgot that part!) and then another right click to Convert format and on and on....

Would there be any utility in consolidating all the right clicking and all the traveling up and down umpteen menus and dialogs by creating something like a new Media Import Manager..where one could access a larger tabbed dialog that would allow access to any folder (staging area) on the computer - where any files (or multiple folders) could be selected and loaded in and then have tabs for each of the main processes like Metadata, Cover Art, File Naming, Location/Conversion etc?

This tool could pop up right after a CD rip (to a the prefined staging area) so the user could fine tune all the details before importing the files for use. Heck - it it could be something that could pop up when a user clicks File->Library-Import....

Just some ideas I have been batting around. Would love to see how others use MC for their "staging" needs and if it fits the bill or do you - like me have to add other tools into the mix to get your stuff just right?

Cheers!

VP

[sunfire7]

No way that I can see to pull a cue into MC and have it extract out the separate tracks as designated by the cue sheet. Have to revert back to EAC or EZ-CD Extractor for these.

For me play and rip from cue is working good, (except from ape's cues, where i have to edit the cue and change the .wav to .ape to work).

[Vocalpoint]

For me play and rip from cue is working good, (except from ape's cues, where i have to edit the cue and change the .wav to .ape to work).

Are you saying you are "ripping" from a .cue file from within MC?

[sunfire7]

not "ripping" exactly, i load the cue into jrmc and then i convert as separated files

[Vocalpoint]

not "ripping" exactly, i load the cue into jrmc and then i convert as separated files

How do you load the cue file? Would appreciate any help on this....

Cheers!

VP

[sunfire7]

i just drag & drop the cue into jrmc playlist, and then tracks appears individually on the list.

[Vocalpoint]

i just drag & drop the cue into jrmc playlist, and then tracks appears individually on the list.

Wow. That works. Where is this documented or is it?

And then - what's your conversion shortcut? Do you click on "New Playlist" on the tree to get the files in the main panel and then highlight them all and chose Library Tools->Convert Format?

Update when you can.

Cheers!

VP

[Doof]

While reading your post, I couldn't help but think that you might have a better experience if you re-thought your stance on not allowing anything into the library until it was "clean". If you're just looking to keep the "clean" free of the "unclean", then you could easily create a playlist called "Staging Area", add any "unclean" files to it, and then filter that playlist out of your View Schemes.

Then you could create a new View Scheme that only allows members of this playlist to be shown, and customize it to fit your workflow needs.

With the files actually in your library, you can then easily select multiple files, no matter where they are physically stored, and do batch converts, renames, cover art lookups, or whatever.

I'm also not sure I understand the desire to have all of these nice lossless files available on disk, but then insist on listening to an MP3. If you're going to devote the drive space to the FLAC, then why not just listen to the FLAC? If you want an MP3 version on hand for things like transferring to a portable MP3 player, then you can have both versions of the file in your library and stack them, so that only the FLAC shows up, but both are available to MC for the portable player bit. Tag the FLAC file however you like and the information carries down through the MP3 version as well.

This is not to say that you don't have a good idea. I've often wished MC had some kind of macro functionality, since I find myself performing the same actions over and over and over.

Also, to answer a couple of other questions...

MC can import .CUE files. Check your Auto Import filetype settings and make sure that .CUE is selected. Once the .CUE sheet is imported, you can convert any or all of the tracks into whatever format you want. Just make sure you don't tell it replace the original on disk while you're doing this or MC will delete the backend .wav file after converting the first track and then the rest will fail.

MC has a Secure rip mode that you can set in the Advanced Ripping options. This behaves similarly, if not identically, to the way EAC rips discs.

[Vocalpoint]

While reading your post, I couldn't help but think that you might have a better experience if you re-thought your stance on not allowing anything into the library until it was "clean".

Doof,

Thanks! I am always looking for better ways to do things...so let's see what we have here....first - I guess some more background would help. I use MC to preside over what one would call an "uncommon" infrastructure...

A) Audiophile Zone

This is my commercial studio environment (that has the big gear and the nice DAC) to enjoy the lossless content. It's library is unique and only contains FLAC stored locally on the "A" workstation. No editing of files takes place in here - this room is playback only - all FLAC files are ripped, prepped and tagged on my personal workstation and then moved to this library. All content in here are considered "masters" and it's generally these masters that create the files for B) and C)

B) Desktop Listening Zone

I have 3 different "office" desktops around the place that use a process I borrowed from another forum member (MusicHawk). My personal workstation takes the MP3's created from the masters in A) and uses those files to create the official "desktop" library - which is synced daily to a share on my Windows Home Server. Using that share -  a script runs on each workstation via SyncBack SE to ensure that a mirrored copy of the "desktop" library exists on all three workstations including the music, the views, the playlists, the custom tags etc etc.

C) Mobile Zone

I have three iPods currently on the go - each syncing different things. My iPod syncs to my personal ws and uses a special Smartlist to ensure I get only my stuff and not my sons "High School Musical 2" sound track or my wife's current obsession with Colbie Calliat. The same is true for the other iPods. My wife could care less about my new View containing Pitchforks Top 10 Albums of the 1990's.

To manage all of the above - tagging, renaming and conversion is critical. Due to the entire library residing on three different workstations - using the actual FLACs in the libraries is out of the question - hence the MP3 conversions. Also it goes without saying that FLAC and iPod do not get along - so conversion is critical for the mobile crowd. Basically - the use of MP3 makes it all possible. I can live with copies of a 30GB MP3 library on each workstation and MP3 is transparent for the iPods. It's the best I could come up with.

If you can offer suggestions on how to make a single central library work with the above and get rid of all this copying and crap - I am all for it.

If you're just looking to keep the "clean" free of the "unclean", then you could easily create a playlist called "Staging Area", add any "unclean" files to it, and then filter that playlist out of your View Schemes.

Then you could create a new View Scheme that only allows members of this playlist to be shown, and customize it to fit your workflow needs.

With the files actually in your library, you can then easily select multiple files, no matter where they are physically stored, and do batch converts, renames, cover art lookups, or whatever.

Sounds great - but what criteria would be used for a "staging" area playlist? Wouldn't I have to start tagging these files in some way to even get a list to populate - Yes? No? With a "standalone" area - MC isn't even in the picture - and I can just tag away without having to perform anything special. If I have to set something first on each "dirty" file - that kind of defeats the purpose - unless a playlist can be created to just show all files in a specific folder?

And while I am all for the files being in the MC "space" so to speak - it's all this right-clicking and repetitive farting around with menus that is making me a bit crazy. The whole point of this post was to start a discussion on "centralizing" tasks that I assume almost 95% of us would do. Granted some are not as picky as I am when it comes to library maintenance etc - but a proper prep/tag/rename process pays infinite dividends in the power of this app when you start using Smartlists etc etc..

I'm also not sure I understand the desire to have all of these nice lossless files available on disk, but then insist on listening to an MP3. If you're going to devote the drive space to the FLAC, then why not just listen to the FLAC?

See above. Due to the current "library" copying...FLAC is not an option. Again - I am all for a better solution that centralizes everything.

If you want an MP3 version on hand for things like transferring to a portable MP3 player, then you can have both versions of the file in your library and stack them, so that only the FLAC shows up, but both are available to MC for the portable player bit. Tag the FLAC file however you like and the information carries down through the MP3 version as well.

I am all ears on this! How does it work and how do I set it up?

Also, to answer a couple of other questions...

MC can import .CUE files. Check your Auto Import filetype settings and make sure that .CUE is selected. Once the .CUE sheet is imported, you can convert any or all of the tracks into whatever format you want. Just make sure you don't tell it replace the original on disk while you're doing this or MC will delete the backend .wav file after converting the first track and then the rest will fail.

So when you say "import" what exactly happens? Can I doubleclick a .cue file out in Explorer and then what happens?  After messing around a bit - with the "drag to playlist" as mentioned by Sunfire - I see that I can load the individual tracks to a playlist and render them out but the resultant files were in a crap state - bad naming, cover art missing etc etc...so obviously I need to work this out a bit better.

MC has a Secure rip mode that you can set in the Advanced Ripping options. This behaves similarly, if not identically, to the way EAC rips discs.

Awesome!

You have given me some great ideas...and I really would appreciate your view on "centralizing" the library a bit better. Or maybe changing it up completely - my wife has been complaining as of late that she feels strapped since she cannot add anything to her "desktop" library because of the way SyncBack SE does it's thing. If she wants to make a playlist or rip a disc or tag any of "her" files - those changes are immediately lost at the next sync. Not the best way to allow freedom with the music...

Anyway - any suggestion you can throw my way would be appreciated.

Cheers!

VP

[sunfire7]

Here is my workflow:

1) My library are mostly flacs, wich I rip from my cds in secure mode to my "staging" area, wich is a subfolder of "my music" folder, and this folder is excluded from the auto-import of jrmc library. the "audio" view

2) If the lossless source is a flac/ape image+cue, i'll drag & drop the cue to jrmc and covert as single tracks to my "staging" folder.

3) If I cant Get or Find a song in lossless, I buy it from iTunes Store (no need of "staging" area for this ones, because are already properly tagged)

4) I open Tag & Rename looking in my "staging" folder and Edit the tags and all. (MC is weak in the tagging inteface =()

5) Using a smartlist previosly created to show all the files of the "staging" folder, I lookup for the covers on the net (Cover Art > Get from internet)

6) Then I use "library tools > rename, move and copy files" to set the files in folders with one clic ( My Music/Artist/Album/Track #. Artist - Name.flac)

And I have my files properly tagged and in the MC library. .  Maybe is kinda long but is my way to do things  

[Vocalpoint]

Here is my workflow:

1) My library are mostly flacs, wich I rip from my cds in secure mode to my "staging" area, wich is a subfolder of "my music" folder, and this folder is excluded from the auto-import of jrmc library.

2) If the lossless source is a flac/ape image+cue, i'll drag & drop the cue to jrmc and covert as single tracks to my "staging" folder.

3) If I cant Get or Find a song in lossless, I buy it from iTunes Store (no need of "staging" area for this ones, because are already properly tagged)

4) I open Tag & Rename looking in my "staging" folder and Edit the tags and all. (MC is weak in the tagging inteface =()

5) Using a smartlist previosly created to show all the files of the "staging" folder, I lookup for the covers on the net (Cover Art > Get from internet)

6) Then I use "library tools > rename, move and copy files" to set the files in folders with one clic ( My Music/Artist/Album/Track #. Artist - Name.flac)

And I have my files properly tagged and in the MC library. .  Maybe is kinda long but is my way to do things  

Pretty darn close to what I do. Interestingly you use Tag & Rename as well (excellent tool) And your comments on the MC interface for tagging are right in line with mine...maybe not "weak" just "all over the place".

Questions:

#2 - Is this a drag and drop to Playlist? Do you then click on New Playlist in the tree and right click on the group of files and hit Lib Tools->Convert Format or what?

And #5 - can you outline how you create your SmartList to show the contents of your "staging" folder?

Cheers!

VP

[bunglemebaby]

And #5 - can you outline how you create your SmartList to show the contents of your "staging" folder?

I would just use [Filename] [begins with] [C:\Music\Staging_Folder] from the search wizard dialog, I'm not sure of the syntax for "begins with". There are probably a few other similar searches you could use too (ie [Filename (path)]), but this is short and sweet enough in my book. 
You could also exclude files in this directory from your main usage views and then not even need a playlist at all. Then you can create a view scheme that includes that folder and use appropriate panes for tagging, which tend to make for a much nicer tagging interface IMO.

-JB

[rick.ca]

And your comments on the MC interface for tagging are right in line with mine...maybe not "weak" just "all over the place".

I feel I'm not getting what either of you are referring to. Considering how tagging can be done directly in the list and by "pane tagging" in addition to the tagging window, it seems rather versatile and powerful to me. I suppose the three distinct methods justifies the "all over the place," but "weak" I don't understand. What, exactly, are we missing?

[Vocalpoint]

I feel I'm not getting what either of you are referring to. Considering how tagging can be done directly in the list and by "pane tagging" in addition to the tagging window, it seems rather versatile and powerful to me. I suppose the three distinct methods justifies the "all over the place," but "weak" I don't understand. What, exactly, are we missing?

Rick,

"Weak" doesn't mean missing and I don't want to turn this into a negative to MC. "Powerful" in my book means logically accessible, ergonomic and above all efficient. To fully tag something in MC...not only to do have to work in a tiny left hand corner panel (why can't this panel be torn off like the Cover art Panel?)..but then you have to highlight all files and right click to Analyze...then highlight all files and right click to add Cover Art and the highlight all files and hit Rename etc etc....basically I find myself going all over the place and clicking about 100 times just to get everything in place. And that's for one album. What I if want the apply the same tagging scheme to 200 files at a time...it can't be done - at least I can't figure out a way...

In something like Tag and Rename - you can apply multiple attributes to hundreds of files at once. Rename them all to the correct directory structure in a single click and so on...

And don;t get me wrong - these good tools are there within MC - it's just that I find them to be scattered all over  the place and believe it can be done better.

Discuss....

Cheers!

VP

[sunfire7]

Questions:

#2 - Is this a drag and drop to Playlist? Do you then click on New Playlist in the tree and right click on the group of files and hit Lib Tools->Convert Format or what?

I just drag & drop the cue to the current playing now list.  then i select the track or tracks that i want to convert and then lib tools > convert format

And #5 - can you outline how you create your SmartList to show the contents of your "staging" folder?

I use:
[Filename (path)]="D:\SunFire\Musica\temp"

[Vocalpoint]

I just drag & drop the cue to the current playing now list.  then i select the track or tracks that i want to convert and then lib tools > convert format

I use:
[Filename (path)]="D:\SunFire\Musica\temp"

Sunfire - EDIT - Not so sweet!

Within the Smartlist parameters - Under Rules - if I add:

FileName (Path)
Is
then type: D:\Test in the blank space - I see nothing.

Do I need quotes? Am I placing the parameters in the right place? I notice you have braces around your parameters...where is this being entered?

Update when you can.

VP

[bunglemebaby]

To fully tag something in MC...not only to do have to work in a tiny left hand corner panel

Give pane tagging (or "folder tagging"?) a try. It might not be what you're looking for, but it's different and I like it better.

..but then you have to highlight all files and right click to Analyze...then highlight all files and right click to add Cover Art and the highlight all files and hit Rename etc etc

I agree with you here. A good macro system would indeed help with this. I know macro creation has been requested in the past. I have no idea the reasons behind lack of implementation, or if it might still be a consideration.
You can have MC automatically perform Analysis and Cover Art lookup upon import (but I prefer not to), which would only leave the "Rename..." step.

What I if want the apply the same tagging scheme to 200 files at a time...it can't be done - at least I can't figure out a way...

Select the 200 files. Apply your tag changes. Done.
It is very possible that I'm missing what you're getting at here though... Is a "tagging scheme" something special?

In something like Tag and Rename - you can apply multiple attributes to hundreds of files at once. Rename them all to the correct directory structure in a single click and so on...

You can certainly do this in MC, unless I don't understand what you mean. Is there a specific example of what happens when you "apply multiple attributes to hundreds of files at once" that you can't do in MC?

And don;t get me wrong - these good tools are there within MC - it's just that I find them to be scattered all over  the place and believe it can be done better.

I agree with this somewhat, but the issue (as I see it) is that there are so many options and tools within MC that it's difficult to point to things that should get more prominence in the menu/tool system. Most of the tools you mentioned are located in either the right-click menu under Library Tools or through one of the three tagging interfaces.
So I guess my thing is that, while not perfect, MC successfully performs all of my tagging and Library management functions better than any other software that I've used. I can't say that I've got any specific suggestions to make any of this better, besides adding the ability to create user macros to perform sets of these functions at once.
Is there anything specifically that you think would make MC less scattered? Good suggestions here would certainly help towards making MC more noob friendly, on top of more efficient for experienced users.

-JB

[Vocalpoint]

Give pane tagging (or "folder tagging"?) a try. It might not be what you're looking for, but it's different and I like it better.

Might try but I think I know what it will feel like....

Select the 200 files. Apply your tag changes. Done.

If they are "outside" the system - in my staging area? Please show me how to select 200 files that are separate folders (or not) in MC.

It is very possible that I'm missing what you're getting at here though... Is a "tagging scheme" something special?

Nope...I do have a few custom fields that must be filled in but nothing huge.

You can certainly do this in MC, unless I don't understand what you mean. Is there a specific example of what happens when you "apply multiple attributes to hundreds of files at once" that you can't do in MC?

Again - if the files are in the MC space - then possibly. But if they are in a work area and possible parsed out to folders - then no. Tag and Rename can peer recursively into 20 folders and quickly present a "flat" view of all the files so it's a snap to tag em all up....
 

Is there anything specifically that you think would make MC less scattered? Good suggestions here would certainly help towards making MC more noob friendly, on top of more efficient for experienced users.

Yes. Make the Import Media Wizard matter. To me - "importing" media means I should probably cleanse it or do something to it upon entry to make it truly useful. If it's a work area full of random MP3s that have no structure - then when I click File->Import Media...I would like to be presented with some sort of unified wizard or dialog that collects all these right click functions and tiny tag windows into a singular efficient space that makes it easy to bring these files in - regardless of the shape they are in.

This dialog should be able to allow me to :

1. Select my target files
2. Test for validity (I really get pissed when MC will not bring in a FLAC file but will not tell me WTF is wrong with it),
3. Apply tag templates
4. Insert cover art
5. Maybe analyze the audio (replay gain)
6. Apply a standard renaming scheme (stored as a reusable template of course)
7. And then perhaps offer the Auto Import function to correctly log the now "cleansed" files as being part of the library.

I love MC....it just needs a little more TLC in some areas.....

Thanks for the suggestions and tips...keep em coming!

Cheers!

VP

[rick.ca]

"Weak" doesn't mean missing and I don't want to turn this into a negative to MC. "Powerful" in my book means logically accessible, ergonomic and above all efficient.

Sorry—I did understand the general idea you were conveying in your original post. But I forgot that (the subject!) and was responding to the idea the actual tagging function itself was "weak." I'd don't disagree with the idea of somehow unifying some library tools might be useful. I do find it difficult, however, to imagine something flexible enough to handle all situations—that wouldn't also be so intimidating only very advanced and organized users would use it. I can see the merit in some facility that would allow me to do exactly what I did yesterday to a batch of files I'm importing today. But if I'm not sure what I did last time (maybe it was last week or month) and/or I'm not sure if the files require the same treatment, then I'd be checking all the settings for each function to be performed. If I'm doing that, I may as well run the function—to make sure it works as expected. A good example of what I'm getting at is Rename, Move & Copy Files... That's a very powerful function, but also very dangerous. There's no way I'd "batch" that with other processes. I'm always going to run it with it's separate dialog—where I can carefully check the parameters and see the preview before I run it. I also like to review the results of function before I move on to the next step. I can recover from many stupid mistakes with an Undo—but only if I recognize the mistake immediately.

[Doof]

If they are "outside" the system - in my staging area? Please show me how to select 200 files that are separate folders (or not) in MC.

Again - if the files are in the MC space - then possibly. But if they are in a work area and possible parsed out to folders - then no. Tag and Rename can peer recursively into 20 folders and quickly present a "flat" view of all the files so it's a snap to tag em all up....

If you imported everything into MC, and set up a view scheme and/or smartlist like we're suggesting, then you could easily tag as many files as you wanted to all at once.

For instance, I use E:\Users\Public\Public Music as my music folder location. I also have E:\Users\Public\Import as my staging area. I use that for all of my "unclean" media, whether it's audio, images or video.

Then within MC, I have an Audio View Scheme called "Import". In its "Set rules for file display" setting, I have the following rule:

[Filename (path)]="E:\Users\Public\Import\"

For all of my othe view schemes I have the following rule:

-[Filename (path)]="E:\Users\Public\Import\"

Same rule, just with the "-" in front which means to exclude files that meet this criteria.

I then import everything in the Import folder and now everything is in the library, and I can utilize the full potential of MC to do my tagging and renaming. I can easily craft the Import View Scheme to show all of the fields I want to worry about in the details view and do in-place tag editing, batch tagging, whatever. I can highlight every file in the list and do one big Analyze Audio, one big Cover Art lookup, one big file rename, etc.

But if you insist on keeping everything out of the library, and doing all of this work from the Drives & Devices branch, then you can always just select the root folder of your staging area and then, in the upper pane where you see the Play, Import into Library, and Add Folder buttons, check the box that says "Show Files In Subfolders" and you can do all of this same stuff without having to import anything first. That will give you a flat list of every file in that folder and all subfolders. You can customize the columns that are shown and do all of your tagging right there.

You do know that you don't have to use the Action Window to tag files, right? Just checking because I'm starting to wonder if you knew that.

[sunfire7]

Sunfire - EDIT - Not so sweet!

Within the Smartlist parameters - Under Rules - if I add:

FileName (Path)
Is
then type: D:\Test in the blank space - I see nothing.

Do I need quotes? Am I placing the parameters in the right place? I notice you have braces around your parameters...where is this being entered?

Update when you can.

VP

Try "contain"  and not "is"

create an smartlist and clic import/export button, then paste there this:

[Filename (path)]="D:\Test"

then ok and again ok.

if you want to create a scheme view for same purposes, go to menu view > add view > add library view, select a pre-defined model or create yours as you want, then in the right panel go to advanced> set rules of display, import/ export and paste same thing, then ok and ok. (may be necesary to unselect "use parent scheme rules for the display")

[Vocalpoint]

Try "contain"  and not "is"

create an smartlist and clic import/export button, then paste there this:

[Filename (path)]="D:\Test"

then ok and again ok.

I am pasting M:\Temp - which is a valid directory and has some MP3 in it and still nothing? What the heck am I not doing here? Do I have to also add Media Type = Audio or something to the Smartlist? If I hit F9 and create a new one - that rule is there until I click Import/Export and do the "paste" of the path then it disappears. Adding it in afterwards does nothing either...

I also tried the View scheme and nothing there either...obviously I have something turned off here....

This seems like very powerful stuff...and I really want to get on it

Update when you can.

[sunfire7]

screen of your smarlist edit screen and the import/export window

[Vocalpoint]

screen of your smartlist edit screen and the import/export window

How do I attach a screencap to a post?

Wanted to do this at my last reply but couldn't see any way to do it...besides hacking HTML code etc....is it the Insert Image button?

[JimH]

Use Reply, then Additional options.

[Vocalpoint]

Use Reply, then Additional options.

When I hit reply: I get these options.

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and that's it.

Am I too much of new "woodchuck" to matter?

[JimH]

I guess so.  You'll have to post on any photo site, then add the link between the two img tags you put in your previous post.

[Doof]

It should look like the screenshot I just posted.

But keep in mind, that this will only work with files that are actually imported into the library.

[Vocalpoint]

It should look like the screenshot I just posted.

But keep in mind, that this will only work with files that are actually imported into the library.

Well - that explains it! The way this sounded to me was:

1. Create Smartlist
2. Make it point to any old folder "outside" the Sphere of MC
3. Wence clicked upon - files show in the Action Window ready for clean up...

Just about like Drives and Devices....

So -

For instance, I use E:\Users\Public\Public Music as my music folder location. I also have E:\Users\Public\Import as my staging area. I use that for all of my "unclean" media, whether it's audio, images or video.

How did you set this up within MC? Do I make my "import" folder something that MC will pick up under Auto Import Folders under Library and Folders?

Sorry for the nube-ness here...this program is so bloody deep when you8 start clicking around. That "recursive" thing on Drives and Devices is awesome!

Cheers!

VP

[Doof]

Do I make my "import" folder something that MC will pick up under Auto Import Folders under Library and Folders?

Yes, include the import folder in your Auto Import folders list. Anything in that folder will get imported, and then if you have your View Schemes set to exclude anything in that folder, then they will remain clean. Set up another View Scheme that only shows files in that folder (using the rule I posted), and now you have your new Staging Area, that you can customize purely for tagging purposes. Once you're content that the files are clean, run the Rename Files tool on them and have it put them into their permanent home. Once that's done, they'll "magically" disappear from the Staging Area and show up in the rest of the View Schemes.

[glynor]

Yes, include the import folder in your Auto Import folders list. Anything in that folder will get imported, and then if you have your View Schemes set to exclude anything in that folder, then they will remain clean. Set up another View Scheme that only shows files in that folder (using the rule I posted), and now you have your new Staging Area, that you can customize purely for tagging purposes. Once you're content that the files are clean, run the Rename Files tool on them and have it put them into their permanent home. Once that's done, they'll "magically" disappear from the Staging Area and show up in the rest of the View Schemes.

This is exactly what I've done with my library for years now.

I have a TOP LEVEL view scheme (not "inside" audio, video, or images) called Imports that shows only the "Incoming" folder, which is M:\Incoming\ on my RAID drive.  It is nice to use a View Scheme instead of a Smart list because then you can filter the list using Panes, and use Pane-Tagging to help you tag the files more quickly.

Then, my Audio, Video, and Images top level view schemes all have an exclusion rule that hides anything in this "Incoming" folder, so they don't show up in the library until they've been moved to their permanent locations.  Then, all of the sub-Views of those automatically use the parent filters and hide the Incoming folder data there as well.

I've never understood why some people resist importing things into their libraries in MC.  I import just about everything that I might ever want to manage even occasionally in MC (or use MC's tools to search for it).  MC has far more powerful tools for managing and finding files than Windows Explorer does, so why would I want to be forced to use Explorer for anything complex when I have MC sitting there?  For example... My entire "My Documents" structure is in my library, as is my Wallpapers directory and Windows Sound files.  I just have them excluded from my "regular" views so that they don't get polluted with things I don't want to see when looking for music or something to watch.

[Vocalpoint]

This is exactly what I've done with my library for years now.

I have a TOP LEVEL view scheme (not "inside" audio, video, or images) called Imports that shows only the "Incoming" folder, which is M:\Incoming\ on my RAID drive.  It is nice to use a View Scheme instead of a Smart list because then you can filter the list using Panes, and use Pane-Tagging to help you tag the files more quickly.

Well...this is exactly what I have been looking for! Awesome. Now that I have an import folder working - I am starting to wrap my mind around the view schemes.

I've never understood why some people resist importing things into their libraries in MC.  

Here's why - over here - if you have scoured this thread at all - my layout is well beyond the "local" library on the PC concept where I can filter and play around at will just for myself. Hence the reason for an "external" prep zone where dirty crap never gets into the library except when I add it in....

I now have some concerns about what these new "additions" (the Import" folder for sure) will do to my "library" management scheme where the whole thing (views, playlists, the song files, art - everything) gets copied nightly. I suspect that I may have to create empty "Import" folders on the clients or the "view" schemes will error out blah blah...and if that's the case - that is way too much work and will not work for me.

Unless - I consolidate my entire library into singular stash on the server and just manage a single spot. Then folks will start getting crazy and ripping their own discs, adding their own files, creating their own playlists and before I know it - I will be right back to the mess I had prior to implementing this layout...

Dunno...love the "import" concept - just don't know if it's going to work....

Keep the suggestions flowing....please talk me into something that works!

Cheers!

VP

[glynor]

Well...this is exactly what I have been looking for! Awesome. Now that I have an import folder working - I am starting to wrap my mind around the view schemes.

Here's why - over here - if you have scoured this thread at all - my layout is well beyond the "local" library on the PC concept where I can filter and play around at will just for myself. Hence the reason for an "external" prep zone where dirty crap never gets into the library except when I add it in....

I now have some concerns about what these new "additions" (the Import" folder for sure) will do to my "library" management scheme where the whole thing (views, playlists, the song files, art - everything) gets copied nightly. I suspect that I may have to create empty "Import" folders on the clients or the "view" schemes will error out blah blah...and if that's the case - that is way too much work and will not work for me.

Actually, mine is considerably complex as well (trust me).  Now, I do have a central file share, and I'd recommend that you strongly consider implementing this.  It is quite easy to segregate out local stuff if you need.  However, even if you decide to keep it as-is, you should be fine.

You actually don't WANT to recreate the Incoming folder on all of the client machines.  Now, if the client users navigate to the Imports View Scheme, it'll look like all the files are broken to them (because they'll be "missing"), but that's okay.  Do the client machines run Auto-Import at all?  If not, then you don't need to even think about it at all.  However, even if they do, it'll work fine.  Just make sure you keep the Fix Broken Links option (Options -> Library & Folders) set to Yes (Protect Network Files).

The way that option works is that if the "root folder" of the file is missing (so the "Incoming" folder in the M:\Incoming\blah\blah\foo.flac file path), then the files are "protected" from being deleted (ignored), figuring that it is possible that the network or external location is just down temporarily.

[Vocalpoint]

Actually, mine is considerably complex as well (trust me).  Now, I do have a central file share, and I'd recommend that you strongly consider implementing this.

Can you enlighten me? Cause - quite honestly - while this has been okay for the most part - It has become a bit of a chore...my wife is starting to get crusty on my "rules" for no adds or playlists or whatever - due to the possibly of messing up views, having dirty files etc etc...

The more I think on it - the more I think a singular central share is becoming the key now...plus with a new Windows Home Server install here now - and a UPNP music management system for WHS (which I am assuming MC might be able to connect to via UPNP (?) - that I am dying to try out...I can see a major re-shuffle coming.

Plus I want to update to MC14 here shortly so work will have to be done regardless...

Ideas?

VP

[glynor]

my wife is starting to get crusty on my "rules" for no adds or playlists or whatever - due to the possibly of messing up views, having dirty files etc etc...

Ha ha!  I can't believe you've managed to control it that much at all.  My wife would have taken one look at me, said "naaaaahh", told me to get back in my hole, and gone about her business.

I can give you a very brief run-down, though I'm somewhat limited on time.

File Storage:  I have a multi-terrabyte RAID array running on a machine in my basement.  I've described this setup hardware wise elsewhere, but could reprise this if needed later on.  This volume is mounted as "Drive M" on all machines in my house.  This is the permanent file store for all media and user data (the "My Documents" folders on all of my machines point to M:\users\<USERNAME>\).

Ripping New Files: I don't actually end up ripping new files very much anymore.  All of my new music purchases have switched to online distribution for the most part.  However, back before I did this (back when there was DRM and crappy quality audio) and when I occasionally do get a new CD... I have ALL copies of MC set to rip to M:\Incoming\[Media Type]\[Artist]\[Album]\.  That way, my wife can rip files.  She can still get to them if she wants by going to the Imports View scheme in MC, until I get around to tagging and organizing them.  Since the entire Incoming folder is excluded from my "main views", I don't have to worry about new media polluting my main library.

Other Excluded Files: I actually use a system where if any file is tagged with the keyword "hide" then it hides that file from the Audio, Images, and Video view schemes.  So, it is easy to exclude files on a one-off basis as well.  Just use the same method as described above with -[Keyword]=hide.

Playlists:  We really don't use manual Playlists that much, but my wife does like to build them sometimes, and I use them for DJ-ing sometimes.  I just made her a Playlist folder and told her to keep all of her Playlists in there.  She does, mostly.  When she doesn't, I just move them into her folder for her.

MC's Database:  I used to have and use a complicated set of scripts that handled copying my database around to my different machines.  Now, however, I just point all of the machines at M:\library_data\<LIBRARY_NAME> and use MC's built-in "Read/Write" and "Read-Only" library method.  It is very rare that I end up having to track down which machine is stopping me from accessing MC's library read/write in actual practice, because I've trained my users to all close the application when they're done with it.  On the rare occasion when I do need to kill an instance, that's what VNC and Process Explorer are for.  This is the one place where I really feel MC is still somewhat lacking.  It is getting closer all the time, but I'd really like to see a TRUE multi-user database where multiple copies of MC can all access the database simultaneously, similar to Cumulus or something like that, where you have logins and different users can have different permissions over what they can/cannot do.

[sunfire7]

Yes, include the import folder in your Auto Import folders list. Anything in that folder will get imported, and then if you have your View Schemes set to exclude anything in that folder, then they will remain clean. Set up another View Scheme that only shows files in that folder (using the rule I posted), and now you have your new Staging Area, that you can customize purely for tagging purposes. Once you're content that the files are clean, run the Rename Files tool on them and have it put them into their permanent home. Once that's done, they'll "magically" disappear from the Staging Area and show up in the rest of the View Schemes.

+1 

[galahad1974]

glynor,
unrelated question, how do you create a top level view scheme?

[rick.ca]

how do you create a top level view scheme?

Right-click on any existing view and select Add Library View. Change Location to (Root).

[galahad1974]

Thanks.
I feel kinda stupid now.

[hit_ny]

How do you create a viewscheme that displays the most recently 'moved into the library' files ?

..that is moved from the filtered incoming folder set to auto-import on a periodic basis.

Just so its possible to see what the new library additions in the last week, month or longer are.

The import date is now not of much use. Can [Date modified] be used here ?

The only way i found gives what i was looking for is to use the [last played] field as i normally listen to stuff before its moved into its final destination. But this clashes with already imported stuff that you might want to listen and there seems to be no way to distinguish between them.

I've still not managed to transition from a clean, not imported area into everything imported but filtered from main views.

[galahad1974]

would using the date imported, but excluding things still in the import directory give you what you want? or at least close to it?
I personally have a date field I created specifically for that, that i have populated when the move process is done out of my import directory. Tiny bit of extra work, but it allows my to perform the sort you specified plus a few others.

[hit_ny]

would using the date imported, but excluding things still in the import directory give you what you want? or at least close to it?

No because you might move something that was imported later than other stuff and the order in the list would not reflect the sequence in which you listened. import date loses its value for this particular purpose.

I personally have a date field I created specifically for that, that i have populated when the move process is done out of my import directory. Tiny bit of extra work, but it allows my to perform the sort you specified plus a few others.

Did not think of copying into a custom field and using that field to do the sort 

In my case just manually copying [last played] into the custom field would do the trick.

[glynor]

hit_ny, I don't understand what you're asking for, but I suspect it could be accomplished without manually creating any custom fields.  Could you explain exactly what you need the view to do and look like?

You can certainly have an "Incoming" View (which is restricted to only the "new media" folder, M:\incoming\ on my system), and sort that by [Date Imported] (or however you want, mine is Reverse Date Imported sorted, with the newest stuff on top).  Then, you can have a separate "All Imports" View, which is completely UNRESTRICTED based on folder, and which is sorted by [Date Imported].  I have one of these too, under my "Advanced (All Files)" Top Level View scheme.  That way, if you need to, you can go to a view of ALL of your media (regardless of type, file system location, or anything else) and look at it sorted by [Date Imported].

The power of MC is that you can create and save multiple Views to look at your data in different ways. I know you know this, so I'm confused by what you're looking for...

[galahad1974]

im not sure i fully understand his usage either, but what i think he wants is similar to what i use. a date imported field, that does not reflect when the file was iported into MC, but when it was imported into  the "clean" part of his database.
I will Rip and compress 50 movies and over a period of 4 weeks ill watch them, and when i've verified they are correctly compressed and tagged i add the date and move them from my incoming folder over to the bulk of my library. this becomes my true date imported and I use it for a number of things, i cant simply overwrite the current field as i I also need it for other reports.

[hit_ny]

but what i think he wants is similar to what i use. a date imported field, that does not reflect when the file was iported into MC, but when it was imported into  the "clean" part of his database.

Precisely

All the viewscheme would do is track when albums were 'moved' into the library and display as thumbs in the files view in chronological order. The only metric i can use for this purpose is a custom field which is populated from the [Last Played]. Because i usually move to the library after i've heard, tagged a new album.

I will Rip and compress 50 movies and over a period of 4 weeks ill watch them, and when i've verified they are correctly compressed and tagged i add the date and move them from my incoming folder over to the bulk of my library. this becomes my true date imported

Yep.

but I suspect it could be accomplished without manually creating any custom fields.  Could you explain exactly what you need the view to do and look like?

Provided you listen in exact sequence to the import order then its possible, the problem is that does not always occur. galahad has described what i wanted to do.