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[canlax]

I'm  having  a tough time getting my 160 to work. I used to use Media Juke Box 12 to load my flac files onto my 160 and had no problems. I then went to Media Center 15 (Trial Version...want to ensure it works before I buy it)) and tried to reload all my stuff. It will only work if I convert everything to MP3...if I leave the files as flac (Which is what I want), my 160 just scrolls through the files and doesn't play anything. I'm really stumped and could use a little help. I have updated my 160 on itunes as well as initialized it with Media Center. Huh?

[JimH]

I don't think iPods play FLAC.  Maybe you were converting to MP3 before?

[canlax]

No, I'm sure they we're flac files. The beauty of Media Center and Media Juke box is that they will allow an Ipod to play flac files...as long as you know how to load them on properly...which I don't.

[JimH]

Maybe you were using Rockbox on the iPod?

[canlax]

Not sure what Rockbox is

[dlmax63]

My understanding is that the only way to play flac files directly on the iPod was by hacking Apple's iPod firmware using non-Apple code (i.e. Rockbox). Since I don't want to chance my 160G Classic going F.U.B.A.R., I've never tried it.

With hard drives being cheap and considering the 160G iPod's size, I use lossless for the extra tiny bit of sound quality. In the case of flac files, I convert them to m4a so that the iPod will play them natively. Since the conversion is lossless to lossless, no loss of fidelity. (B.T.W. I use dbPoweramp to convert)

I think Mr. Hillegass is onto something,... either you updated the iPod to a different firmware or you were previously converting files via MC.

[Captor]

Dear Dimax63
Do you still convert flac files to M4a? If so, how do you do that? And how do you get them into the ipod? By itunes?
Meaning you have a folder with flac files for MC and a separate folder with m4a for the itunes?

I was hoping there is a way to convert flac to m4a and import them to my ipod classic in one draw but it looks like it not works easy like that.

Any hints and tricks are appreciated... thanks!

[MarSies]

Canlax, iPods don't play FLAC, unless with RockBox. If you have Rockbox you would know. And they only support older models.

Converting to M4a can be done now natively with MC. Also there is an external decoder that can do it. Maybe I don't understand the question ..

[Captor]

Right, I would like to convert natively from flac to m4a and then export them to my ipod classic.
So you say it is possible now? That sounds great... I have not dound any information in the wiki support
about how to do that.

Rockbox, right, my model is not supported so I have to try to convert flacs to ma4 and then import that to ipod. But i would like a manual for how to do but canīt find that.

[dlmax63]

Captor,

To my knowledge, MC does not yet support conversion to m4a. Perhaps in the future they will add that functionality.

I use dBpoweramp for all of my converting. It is not a free program ($38), but it is fast, robust and does the job very well. Perhaps JRiver will add a converter at some point, but I wasn't able to wait around for that to happen and I've been updating since MJ5 through MC up to v16.

P.S. if you decide to pick up dBpoweramp and are not able to figure it out, feel free to ask questions and I'll be happy to help.

[Captor]

Dear dlmax
Thank you for your kind support. I really appreciate that.
That means you have 2 music folders? One with flac and one with m4p converted by dbpoweramp from flac?
And then you let MC handle them both? The flac for your HiFi equipment and the m4p for your ipod?
Is that the way you work with the music files?
OR do you have itunes there for handling the m4p-files and export them to ipod?
I ask because I try to find out the most convenient way to handle the ipod myself.

[dlmax63]

Captor,

Actually, for those sources where I am only able to obtain flac files, I convert to apple lossless and use the m4a files as my primary. I trash the flac files since I then have no use for them. Also, I do stack some mp3 files for when I want a low quality data CD that I don't care if it's given/thrown away. Any non-duplicate track in my library which I've rated 4 or 5 stars has a hidden mp3 file stacked. Usually I save cue files for burning original gap length CDs too.

[Captor]

I see, Maybe that is the best to do, I mean having m4a files as primary. I was thinking that I chose flac as primary because there are many flac files out there on the internet for the first and for the second I was thinking soon, very soon the smartphone market has come ahead with bigger storage capacity. For example same size as my 160 GB ipod. And THEN I can throw away my apple products for good :-)
And use my smartphone as my music player as well. And then using flacs only. Well, that was my thougths that time:-)
Maybe I have to reconsider again...
For now I have 2 PC computer with itunes on one for ipod. And MC on the other one which is my media computer in the living room. There I also have all my movies.
The problem is if I want to put a CD into my music library in the media PC I have to do the same work twice
if I want that CD in my ipod as well. That is what i would like to avoid. But it sounds like I have to do some work as well because of MC donīt natively converts flac to M4a. But maybe I can us dbpoweramp for that.
I will play around some with that in the weekend. I believe I have an old version of that software. I remember I never liked it. But maybe it is better now. The name on the version I have is dBpowerAMP Music Converter R13.2 Reference Edition. Is that the one you are talking about?
OK, now it is bedtime for me here in Sweden. Bye for now...

[dlmax63]

Captor,
The version I use is reference v14.2. I do not use itunes at all and do not have it on my pc. All of my ipod syncing is done through MC. I use dBpoweramp to convert to m4a in the root of my music hard drive with only track numbers. Then I import into MC and do a move and rename in MC with a couple of VERY LARGE expressions to rename and organize the m4a files.

directory expression:

Code: [Select]

if(isequal([media type],Audio,8),if(isequal([album artist],unknown,8),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),[artist]\[album],[artist]\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume]),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),[album artist]\[album],[album artist]\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume])),if(isequal([media type],Data,8),if(isequal([artist],multiple artists,8),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),Assorted\[album]\Data,if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),Assorted\[myseries]\Data,Assorted\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume]\Data)),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),[artist]\[album]\Data,if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),[artist]\[myseries]\Data,[artist]\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume]\Data))),if(isequal([artist],multiple artists,8),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),Assorted\[album],Assorted\[album]\Art),if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),Assorted\[myseries],Assorted\[myseries]\Art),if(isequal([name],folder,8),Assorted\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume],Assorted\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume]\Art))),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[artist]\[album],[artist]\[album]\Art),if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[artist]\[myseries],[artist]\[myseries]\Art),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[artist]\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume],[artist]\[myseries]\[myseriesvolume]\Art))))))
filename expression:

Code: [Select]

if(isequal([media type],audio,8),if(isequal([album],unknown,8),if(isequal([artist],unknown,8),[name],[artist] - [name]),if(isequal([disc #],unknown,8),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),[track #] - [album] - [artist] - [name],[track #] - [myseries] - [myseriesvolume] - [artist] - [name]),if(isequal([myseries],unknown,8),[disc #].[track #] - [album] - [artist] - [name],[disc #].[track #] - [myseries] - [myseriesvolume] - [artist] - [name]))),if(isequal([disc #],unknown,8),if(isequal([artist],multiple artists,8),if(isequal([MySeries],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[name],[album] - /(VA/) - [name]),if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[name],[myseries] - /(VA/) - [name]),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[name],[myseries] - [myseriesvolume] - /(VA/) - [name]))),if(isequal([MySeries],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[name],[artist] - [album] - [name]),if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[name],[artist] - [myseries] - [name]),if(isequal([name],folder,8),[name],[artist] - [myseries] - [myseriesvolume] - [name])))),if(isequal([artist],multiple artists,8),if(isequal([MySeries],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),/(Disc[disc #]/)[name],[album] - /(VA/) - /(Disc[disc #]/) [name]),if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),/(Disc[disc #]/) [name],[myseries] - /(VA/) - /(Disc[disc #]/) [name]),if(isequal([name],folder,8),/(Disc[disc #]/) [name],[myseries] - [myseriesvolume] - /(VA/) - /(Disc[disc #]/) [name]))),if(isequal([MySeries],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),/(Disc[disc #]/) [name],[artist] - [album] - /(Disc[disc #]/) [name]),if(isequal([myseriesvolume],unknown,8),if(isequal([name],folder,8),/(Disc[disc #]/) [name],[artist] - [myseries] - /(Disc[disc #]/) [name]),if(isequal([name],folder,8),/(Disc[disc #]/) [name],[artist] - [myseries] - [myseriesvolume] - /(Disc[disc #]/) [name]))))))
fyi... the "myseries" and "myseriesvolume" is used to allow organization of music by artist=>box set=>album for those occasions where I have two or more versions of the same album (i.e. Aerosmith/Toys in the Attic and Aerosmith/Box of Fire/Toys in the Attic) I have created a view which then organizes them in my library. Because of the length of my expressions, the renaming/organizing process in MC takes longer than creating the m4a files in the first place.

[Captor]

dlmax: Wow! Well that is way over my head! Better I donīt try anything like that. I have not the skill for that.
I think better I continue the way I have done before and hope there will be an update in MC18 that takes care of this in the future.
I also got this from another member here. He says he can convert to Alac. See below....

"For me MC can convert flac to ALAC (and aiff!). Right click any file (no matter if mp3 or flac or wav) and select "Library Tools -> Convert Format". In the lower left of MC (inside the so called "Action Window") you then can select ALAC or aiff (and many more) as destination format. And for me it works. You also can make MC automatically convert files that should be synced to an Handheld. I'm not sure if your connection to your iPod works, but if it does it should do everything you expect I think".

So maybe there is another way after all?

[MrC]

MC18 will convert to m4a.

You can use the Handheld engine to create the files you'll sync to your iPod.  I'll leave this to you as to how you import them (or if you want, I'll clarify how I do it).

Create a virtual handheld device (just a directory, using the Tools > Options > Handheld).  Call it something like Handheld Files.  Configure the base directory to be a directory that your iTunes will have access to (or you can sync the files to, say, your Mac using a sync tool such as rsync).

Set the Audio conversion settings to ALAC, and the Mode to Convert unsupported formats.  Set your audio file path under Files, Paths & More.   Configure other options there you want.  Set Supported Types to the semicolon separated list of types you don't need converted (e.g. mp3;m4a).

Select a Playlist on the right.  I'd advise using a smartlist (or playlist) which you pre-configure/populate prior to syncing.  This will be your Sync List.  Using a Smartlist will be the most flexible, as you can easily configure it to include/exclude just about anything.

Once configured, you can go to the handheld under Drives & Devices, and perform the Check Sync or Sync.

Suggestion: start with a very short playlist, so that you can quickly see how the conversion/syncing works.  Once you have experience, add items.

[Captor]

MrC: Thank you very much. I will try as per your instruction.

[Captor]

MrC: I use PC not MAC. So after the sync and conversion to m4p in a separate folder (directory). Which worked fine!
How then get the files in to my Ipod?
Can I do that with MC18 or do I need to use iTunes?

[MrC]

I believe you can use either:

 - the third party itunessynchronizer
 - import the folder via iTunes (it is always save to reimport when you make changes via MC)

The latter method requires re-reading the tags.  There is a an applescript that does this.  I'll give you a link to it if you go this route.

[Captor]

Dear MrC: You are my hero!
For this time I will use the iTunes so please give me the link to the applescript.
Thanks in advance 

[Captor]

MrC: Now I run into new trouble. After conversion to m4a (which worked fine) I have double of all my flac files
in the library. Not double music files. Only in the library. Do you know what happen here?
And is there an easy way to get rid of the doublette in the library. If I have to do that manually I have 2 weeks work ahead of me. Please see att. files.

[MrC]

I don't think you have double FLAC files; rather, the newly converted files are included in the Library.  These would be your m4a files, and were included in the library because they are:
 
   1) in the conversion cache (you can disable this if you want)
   2) located in a directory where MC's auto-import picked them up (you can exclude this directory from auto-import)

You can do any of:

  - not show the files in views, by excluding them via Set rules for file display for your views (this is trivial).
  - delete them from the MC library, but leaving the physical files.  The easiest way is to sort your files by date imported, or file type, select all the relevant files (they should be all grouped together because of your sorting), and hit Delete to remove them from the library only.  Be sure auto-import won't pick them up again.
  - use stacks (but I don't have much good experience with stacking, so can't elaborate much).

[MrC]

For this time I will use the iTunes so please give me the link to the applescript.

Since you are running iTunes on Windows, you can't use AppleScript, but I believe this script:

    http://ottodestruct.com/itunes/update.txt

should tell iTunes to update its tags from the files on disk (untested by me, but looks reasonable).  Run this script after you've added your m4a folder to iTunes (iTunes will not freshen its tags via Import when the file already exists in its library, so you have to force the matter).

[Captor]

OK, done. It was m4a-files in the library. I deleted them by searching ma4 files and then mark all and deletion.
They were in the conversion cash. I have deleted that now. Can I go without conversion cash at all? I saw there is that option.
Strange about auto-import however. Because I have only set to make auto-import from the folder were all my flac files are located. And in that folder were no m4a files at all...
So I wonder from were they came.

So now that I have the virtual device (I call it ipod) with all the ma4 files in it I can just start itune, import the files from the virtual device (or from the folder were the m4a files are physical located?).
And after that run the script?

[MrC]

The cache (note: cache vs. cash) is on by default, and is used by DLNA, {Web}Gizmo, stacks, and handheld sync.  The cache files by default are included in MC's library.

I have it disabled, mostly from historical reasons, but also because I want to control the converted file copies manually.  You can do likewise.  Since your are using HH sync to perform the conversion into a virtual handheld (directory), that's essentially your cache for sync'ing.

Your method for importing into iTunes and tag updating is correct.  The script does not need to be run the first time you import, since the files will be new.  Subsequent imports will be faster than the initial one, and the script shouldn't take to long to run across all the files.

[Captor]

MrC: OK, now I have manage to sync the iPod directly from MC. From the vírtual device I created yesterday.

The result is not to bad. All playlists are there + 2 more. And all cover art are there too. Folders, Albums and Tracks are OK. However, what is not OK is that sometimes there are 3-5 of the same album. For example Chris Rea, The road to hell (part 1) there are 5 albums. It is written that there are between 2-4 songs in them. But that is not correct. All 11 songs are in each and every of the 5 albums. Strange uhu?

Maybe I should try to sync by iTune instead. And use the MC-itunes syncronizer + the script that you sent to me.

[MrC]

Where are the duplicates?  In iTunes?  In your m4a converted folder?

Do your sync smartlist and handheld sync list agree, numbers-wise?

[Captor]

The duplicates are in my ipod device.
Donīt have any smartlists. I sync the virtual device you told me to create in handheld in options. I sync that directly to my ipod.
Itunes is not started at all in this sync.

It was just a try I wanted to do before trying sync with itunes.

[f.ammollo]

MC18 will convert to m4a.

You can use the Handheld engine to create the files you'll sync to your iPod.  I'll leave this to you as to how you import them (or if you want, I'll clarify how I do it).

Hello MrC,

could you please help me understand two things:

1) Since MC is capable of syncing natively with the iPod classic (I always use this method), I don't see the advantage of using the virtual handheld + iTunes method, except in a usage scenario where MC is exclusively used to manage its library/play lists and iTunes is exclusively used to actually put the files onto the iPod. Am I correct?
2) DSP options are not applied when natively syncing with the iPod, are they instead applied when syncing with a virtual handheld? I'm asking this because I absolutely need bit depth (e.g. 24->16) and sample rate conversion (e.g. 96 -> 48, 88.2 -> 44.1) for files put onto the iPod in order to overcome its limitations.

Thanks in advance for you reply.

Regards,
Fabrizio

[MrC]

I can't comment on what MC's native iTunes syncing does, as I've not used it.  I neither have a classic, nor allow iTunes to be installed on my PC.  But I think your assessment is correct.  You should be able to use the native syncing if you have a supported device and iTunes is installed on the MC machine.

The method I used works best for me, as I can control the stages and am entirely confident with it.   So you'll have to determine which method works best for you.

I haven't tried bitdepth conversion in the HH conversion.  Give it a shot, and report back if you could.

[f.ammollo]

I haven't tried bitdepth conversion in the HH conversion.  Give it a shot, and report back if you could.

Hello MrC,

thank you for your reply.

I have already written a couple of messages in the main MC18 forum about missing bitdepth/sample rate in the HH conversion
but so far no one has replied.
The files I tried out are 24bits/192KHz FLACs and after converting them to ALAC they are still 24bits/192KHz (verified by looking at
the conversion cache files) even if I configured to transcode them to 16bits/48KHz.

Best regards,
Fabrizio

[MrC]

Matt indicates conversion does not yet work:

   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72677.0

I've verified this, so you'll have to convert as an additional step for now.  A workaround could be to convert using Disk Writer, and then use its contents as your sync files.

[f.ammollo]

Matt indicates conversion does not yet work:

   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72677.0

I've verified this, so you'll have to convert as an additional step for now.  A workaround could be to convert using Disk Writer, and then use its contents as your sync files.

Thank you for the explanation, sometimes finding information inside old messages is not so easy.
Surely the interface is not clear about it, maybe the output format options should be disabled until they actually work.

Excuse me, what exactly is Disk Writer (I never heard about it)?

Best regards
Fabrizio

[MrC]

I think in order to get new features out quickly, JRiver uses existing interface code, and with just a few easy modifications, is able to plumb pieces together quickly, in a rapid prototyping mode.  Users get what they want quickly, everyone gets some experience using the features, and future enhancement requests are generally more precise and refined.

Disk Writer:

   Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Output > Output mode: Disk Writer

Instead of playing back a playlist to an audio device, writes WAV files to the disk.  This allows you to use DSP Studio fully.