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[NickT]

Hello All

Forgive me if the following is a potential same old question but I am new to ripping and playing uncompressed audio.
I am ripping my entire CD collection to flac using EAC for reproduction via a music computer I have just built, linked to my DAC via AES/EBU and/or USB.

Stupidly I did not do enough homework before setting up EAC and now have an irritating situation.
I have just imported the first 60 or so rips into MC and was a little surprised that none of my files are recognised as albums. Now I know why!
1) I did not set up the file name criteria and 2) I didn't create a CUE list for each rip!!!

I have now corrected the file settings and think I understand the importance of both.

My question:

If I now create a retrospective CUE file for each of the CD's ripped, clear the current file import from MC; will MC use the CUE file to structure the individual files as albums when I do a new import?

Apologies if I am barking up the wrong tree but the thought of ripping all the CD's again is somewhat unappealing considering I have 1200 or so to go.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in anticipation

[JimH]

You might try ripping a few with MC just to see what happens.  MC's ripping is unsurpassed.

[Vincent Kars]

I’m not familiar with EAC but in general ripping software might create a CUE but most of them simply store the meta data in tags. No need to use a file name or a CUE.
The only reason I can think of to use a CUE is when you are ripping an entire CD to single file. You need a cue to discern the tracks.
My personal preference is a file per track and tagged.
This make each track  self-documenting.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/TG/Tagging.html

[NickT]

Thanks Jim H, I will give ripping within JR a go but still would like to avoid re ripping CD's already ripping.
I did give re tagging a go within MC but only had a 20-25% success rate. Most of the files are still not recognised as tracks linked to other tracks which constitute albums.

Moving on to Vincent Kars post...

The track info in the EAC rips consist only of the track title (because of my cock-up with the settings).
If I am understanding you correctly, the crucial missing information from the file name string is the Artist and Album. Therefore MC has no way of knowing that certain individual files belong to a common group of files which make up an album.

Based on your observation , is there a way of manually editing tags to include Artist, Album title etc?

Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

[JimH]

You could sort the tracks by date, then select each set, and assign album names for each.

[Frobozz]

It is going to be easier and likely faster to re-rip the 60 discs than to correct the tags after the fact.  It's not that it's not possible to do, it's just that you may end up spending more time to learn how to do it than it would take to re-rip the 60 discs.

How are you ripping in EAC?  To individual FLAC files?  To WAV files?  To a single WAV file with CUE?

[Moe]

What is your file structure like?

Lets say you are ripping The Beatles Revolver album.

Do you have a folder named "The Beatles" and then a folder inside that folder named "Revolver" which contains the audio files?

If you do, then you can just tag the files from the filename and that would at least give you the Artist and Album. To do so, just select the files, right click choose "Library tools" and then select "Fill Properties From Filename".  Check Directories and enter [Artist]\[Album].

[Alex B]

Frobozz,

If I understood correctly, NickT has 1200 already ripped discs. The number of albums in the first imported patch is about 60.

NickT,

Before trying to give any helpful instructions, I'd need to know the file format and have a few examples of the complete filename paths (= directory path + filename). You can copy complete filename paths easily from the Filename field inside MC. I'd also like to know if the files have track numbers in the "Track #" field inside MC.


EDIT

I noticed Moe's reply after posting mine... Please answer our questions before trying to do any "Library Tools" operations.

[NickT]

Hi All
I am leaving the office in a minute (UK based) and will read through your posts and report back this evening with the music computer in front of me.
Thanks for all your input.

[NickT]

Hi Frobozz, Moe and others

Ok......

Last night I cleared the MC library and reimported a handful of ripped files from EAC Library for clarity.
Just to recap-I know for a fact that the only tag on these files when ripped in EAC is the track title due to me cocking up the EAC setup!
When I ripped the discs, I first looked up album information usin freedb, clicked the button to rip to WAV; created a destination (artist) folder and then a sub folder for the album title. The destination folder and its sub folder were all created and labeled manually.

The following is a copied extract from MC library for one album; Camel-Rajaz and is copied from the recently imported playlist (the only place where files show as an album) due to the missing tags.

Seq   Name   Artist   Album   Rating   Genre   Track #             Duration   Bitrate   File Type   Date   Filename   
1   Lawrence         ? stars         10:46   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Lawrence.wav
2   Lost and Found         ? stars         5:38   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Lost and Found.wav
3   Rajaz                    ? stars         8:15   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Rajaz.wav
4   Sahara                    ? stars         6:44   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Sahara.wav
5   Shout                    ? stars         5:15   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Shout.wav
6   Straight to My Heart      ? stars         6:23   1411   wav                            M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Straight to My Heart.wav
7   The Final Encore         ? stars         8:07   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\The Final Encore.wav
8   Three Wishes         ? stars         6:58   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Three Wishes.wav

Below is the same extract after looking up tags from YBDB within MC, obviously not complete, but a little closer to appearing as a properly tagged album!

Seq   Name                          Artist   Album   Rating   Genre   Track #   Duration   Bitrate   File Type   Date   Filename   
1   Lawrence               Camel   Rajaz   ? stars   Rock   8   10:46   1411   wav   1999   M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Lawrence.wav
2   Lost and Found                    ? stars         5:38   1411   wav      M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Lost and Found.wav
3   Rajaz                          Camel   Rajaz   ? stars   Rock   4   8:15   1411   wav   1999   M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Rajaz.wav
4   Sahara                          Camel   Rajaz   ? stars   Rock   7   6:44   1411   wav   1999   M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Sahara.wav
5   Shout                          Camel   Rajaz   ? stars   Rock   5   5:15   1411   wav   1999   M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Shout.wav
6   Straight to My Heart    Camel   Rajaz   ? stars   Rock   6   6:23   1411   wav   1999   M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Straight to My Heart.wav
7   The Final Encore                    ? stars         8:07   1411   wav      M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\The Final Encore.wav
8   Three Wishes               Camel   Rajaz   ? stars   Rock   1   6:58   1411   wav   1999   M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Three Wishes.wav


To clarify another point, I have only ripped 60 odd discs, with 1200 or so to go; so in the scheme of things re ripping 60 discs is no great shake, just frustrating.
If there is a quick way to edit the tag information please let me know, otherwise I will resign to re ripping.

Another mine field question: WAV or FLAC?
I am ripping my entire CD collection for reproduction via a music computer I have just built, linked to my DAC via AES/EBU and/or USB. The first 60 have been ripped to WAV.

Thanks again

[Vincent Kars]

FLAC
The problem with WAV is that the audio part is almost universal supported but due to a lack of tagging standards you better act as if the tags are not portable at all.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/WAV_KB.htm

Some people claim to hear a difference in sound quality between WAV and FLAC.
As both are lossless formats, obvious this cannot be due to the file format.
I do think that this differences are or expectation bias or a system error.

You might do a listening test yourself.
Obvious if you do hear a difference than having your archive in FLAC with all the tags in the file allows you to convert to any other format preserving your tags.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/WAV-FLAC.htm

Tagging
You might try the lookup album info of MC
My experience is that the database used is pretty limited.

Your best bet is probably converting to FLAC and using MP3Tag.
It uses FreeDB, a bit unstructured but big.
It will populate all the major tags like album, title, artist, release year, etc.
I use the MC Image link to add the cover art.

Like all moderd media players MC offers ripping in secure mode.
There is a lot of talk about possible differences between rippers but those who have compared various rips always report the same outcome: zero difference.

I use dbPoweramp for ripping.
This is because it supports 4 different databases including AMG for the meta data.
As my collection is classical, I get better and more consistent result due to AMG
It is also a very fast and reliable converter.

[Alex B]

eac:

1   Lawrence         ? stars         10:46   1411   wav                 M:\HI_RES MUSIC\Camel\Rajaz\Lawrence.wav

The problem with EAC and the Wave format is EAC's incapability to write tags to wav files. In case you wonder, MC parsed the displayed Name field values by reading the filenames, not the (non-existing) tags. In MC Wave tagging is optional, but easily possible (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WAV_%26_AIFF_Tagging). However, please understand that Wave tagging is not commonly supported outside MC (e.g. in ripper programs like EAC, many tagging tools, and software & hardware players).

Despite the above mentioned things, I would still recommend to first fix your already ripped files and after that decide what to do with the remaining discs.

In this case, MC can mass tag the Artist and Album tags from the folder structure (use the Fill Properties From Filename tool), but unfortunately you did not have EAC configured to include the track numbers in the filenames.

The missing track numbers make also impossible to use an external tool like Mp3tag for getting the tags from a CD database. (The track order must be correct before the CD can be found from a database.) In addition, Mp3tag and most other tools cannot tag wav files.

My recommadation would be to enable wave tagging in MC's Plug-in Manager, drag & drop the album tracks from Windows Explorer into MC's Playing Now list, one album at a time, and do the following (set Playing Now to list view if it shows only thumbnails):

1) Select all album files and fill the Artist and Album tags from the directory path (tool: Fill Properties From Filename)
2) Drag the individual tracks into the correct order, select all album files, and fill the track numbers (tool: Fill Track Numbers From List Order)
3) Fill the genre tag. (Select all album files and fill the tag.)

Then just remove the files from the list and drag & drop the next album into it.

This procedure would not be automatic, but probably still quite a bit faster than re-ripping. If you have some "Various Artists" albums you may either tag the individual artists by hand or consider re-ripping if that seems easier.

If you want to rate files you can do it anytime (and also change existing ratings). The "Rating" tag doesn't come from a database.

After the already ripped wave files have correct metadata, MC can easily and losslessly convert them to tagged FLAC files (or to any other supported lossless format) if you decide to rip the remaining discs to a lossless format.


I am going to post some (hopefully) useful ripping tips, but I'd like to prepare them properly with screenshots etc, so it might take a couple of days. The post would then also serve as my feature request. (I think it would be useful to change the default filename template and the default columns in the CD/ripping view a bit.)

In the meanwhile you may want to read my "Recommended drives for secure ripping. Test your drives & post the results." thread and test your drive.

[NickT]

Thank you both for your invaluable input

Vincent Kars

On the face of it, it seems FLAC has to be the way forward in terms of versatility in terms of its ability to easily convert to other formats, paralleled with its ability to carry tags.
I will convert some WAV rips to FLAC and give MP3tag a go. Even with my very limited experience of MC I have likewise found the default database to be somewhat limited especially given that my collection contains some pretty obscure stuff.
Freedb in EAC has certainly not failed me so far and having now got the settings right and ripped a couple more discs (to flac), it seems to be doing exactly what I had hoped for.

AlexB

Your suggestion 1,2,3 is extremely quick and certainly more appealing than re ripping, especially seeing as I can get a good deal of tag information from the MC database.
I will keep an eye out for your ripping tips post and certainly will view your drive recommendations.

Thank you both again for you advice

[Frobozz]

Another tool to look at to try to fix the problem is CUETools.  There's info on CUETools in the Hydrogenaudio Wiki and at the CUETools web site.

CUETools has the ability to generate a CUE file from individual files.  It can look up tag info from freedb and MusicBrainz.  It can convert a CUE and associated files from WAV to FLAC and write the tags to the FLAC files.  So it has the potential to fix your rips.  A potential problem is that when it generates a generic CUE file the files need to be in the correct order for the CD.  And since you don't have track numbers that will need some manual work.  And the generated CUE file may or may not match the true and proper CUE you'd get direct from the CD.  If the generated CUE isn't right it may not be found in freedb or MusicBrainz. 

[NickT]

Thanks Frobozz will download and try

Another question for you all......

Last night I used the TAG editor in MC which is actually a very quick and effective method as suggested by AlexB.
By doing it this way, am I editing the source files in my EAC Rips folder or just the MC library image?

My concern is that if it is the MC library image that I am editing, the source file will remain incorrect and as such will need editing again on a future installation.

[Moe]

You should be editing the tags themselves and not just the MC library image.

To be on the safe side once you get all your tags setup properly what I would do is use MC to change your filenames to something a bit more useful than songtitle.flac or songtitle.wav.

Select some files, right click, choose "Rename, Move & Copy Files".  From the top pull down choose "Rename (moves files if directory changes).   Check "Filename" and enter something like "[Artist] - [Album] - [Track #] - [Name]"

So this would change your file name from something like Lawrence.wav to Camel-Rajaz-8-Lawrence.wav

This way if you ever have any sort of catastrophic failure you'll at least be able to quickly rebuild your basic tags.

[Vincent Kars]

My concern is that if it is the MC library image that I am editing, the source file will remain incorrect and as such will need editing again on a future installation.

If you are using WAV and have not activated the plug-in, it is library only
Standard it is library + tags.

If you want to verify
-   Move a edited file to another PC or
-   Open  one in MP3Tag

[Alex B]

Open  one in MP3Tag

Unfortunately Mp3tag does not support the Wave format at all.

NickT,

You can easily check the actual file tags by using MC's "tag dump": http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59513.msg430491#msg430491

[dlmax63]

+1 to Frobozz comment.

since your files are lossless, it would be no big deal to re-convert them using CueTools and it will pull the info from FreeDb or MusicBrainz (editable if needed). Granted, we're only speaking of basic tags (artist, album, title, track# disc#, total discs, date & genre), but this would do the trick for you if that's all you need.