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[JohnT]

If you're experiencing a problem with the way we auto-configure ffdshow video and audio decoders...

The best way to debug our Red October ffdshow settings is to:

1. go into Options / Video and select "Red October with additional filters"
2. for the video file type you're viewing,  select "JRiver video engine..." and select "ffdshow Video Decoder" under "Other filters"
3. play the file and right-click and configure the ffdshow video decoder
4. make our preset the current one "JR_DecodeVideo_PlaybackPCM (or Bitstream)" - this has the settings we're using while in Red October automatic mode
5. now tweak the settings until it works for you and let us know what needs tweaking

NOTE: Step #2 requires that you have ffdshow installed separately (e.g. one of CCCP, MPC, ffdshow tryouts, etc.), or register the ffdshow.ax in Media Center's appdata plugins folder. Thanks for pointing this out Nathan.

[SamuriHL]

AH, great!  This is excellent information.  I was wondering how to find the settings being used.  Thanks!

[gvanbrunt]

John T:

Told ya...

[SamuriHL]

LOL! 

[SteveGoff]

What particular settings do you want us to tweak? The preset autoload conditions? The other filter settings, such as decoder options? I can't get it to even start an MKV video: it reports an unspecified Directshow error with code = 0x80004005. Returning it to straight Red October makes it work again.

On further testing my MKV file with TrueHD will play, but the ones with DTS MA will not.

Ripped DVD videos play, but show that they are using the Microsoft DTV DVD decoder, even though I've selected the ffdshow video decoder.

[SteveGoff]

I had exactly the same results from my second computer, this one in my home theater. MKV with TrueHD plays, but MKV with DTS MA does not. Same error code.
And now going back to Red October HD the video is jerky and smeared, whereas it never was before. I'll try a restart or something.

It turns out that Red October HD is only jerky and smeared on a concert video that was likely 1080i60, rather than 1080p23. But I don't recall having that problem before.

[JohnT]

What particular settings do you want us to tweak? The preset autoload conditions?

No, because we always auto-load it.
 

The other filter settings, such as decoder options?

Yes, and subtitles and any other tweaks that cause it to fix a playback problem for you - along with information on the filetype that was causing the problem (or a sample video file is best if you can upload it somewhere like www.megaupload.com)

I can't get it to even start an MKV video: it reports an unspecified Directshow error with code = 0x80004005. Returning it to straight Red October makes it work again.

What mode was it in, HQ or "additional filters"?  Can you upload it somewhere we can test it?

On further testing my MKV file with TrueHD will play, but the ones with DTS MA will not.

Ripped DVD videos play, but show that they are using the Microsoft DTV DVD decoder, even though I've selected the ffdshow video decoder.

We prefer MS DTV DVD decoder for DVD since ffdshow doesn't seem to do a good job at all.  Are there any problems with DVD playback using the MS decoder?

[SteveGoff]

I encountered the problems using RO  with additional filters. These are standard blu-ray rips made with MakeMKV. don't have the means to provide a snippet. All videos with DTS MA failed. The one with TrueHD that played fine was the movie Zodiac.

Oh, and recently one of my DVD rips has had distorted audio on the last few builds, but didn't before.

[jmone]

2. for the video file type you're viewing,  select "JRiver video engine..." and select "ffdshow Video Decoder" under "Other filters"
.....

FYI - this does not work if you don't already have FFDSHOW registered as a filter.  You may want to list in the Filter Selection box not only REGISTERED filters but also the RO Filters

Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

Sub Handling is still not quite right, and most are the same suggestions as before:
1) On Text Subs you seem to be hiding/unhiding the Subtitle option instead of just turning it on / off giving strange behavior that sometimes needs you to toggle the Right Click --> Subtitles --> On/Off
2) Forced Subs (from LAVSplitter):  I'd suggest that you need to auto select any Forced Sub stream where the Audio Language = Sub Lang
3) A TheaterView friendly OSD Menu that lets users select subs (and other streams) easily when it does not work

[Sandy B Ridge]

Sub Handling is still not quite right, and most are the same suggestions as before:
1) On Text Subs you seem to be hiding/unhiding the Subtitle option instead of just turning it on / off giving strange behavior that sometimes needs you to toggle the Right Click --> Subtitles --> On/Off
2) Forced Subs (from LAVSplitter):  I'd suggest that you need to auto select any Forced Sub stream where the Audio Language = Sub Lang
3) A TheaterView friendly OSD Menu that lets users select subs (and other streams) easily when it does not work

+1

Watched Green Zone last night on bluray. Initially subs were on but in Chinese! Got the missus very confused (why are they speaking Chinese in Iraq?!!). Forced subs did not give eng subtitles in the Arabic dialogue, so had to fiddle and manually select the English option. Unfortunately this led to some more confusion as I seemed to select what was the subtitles from the commentary track! Next up was the subtitles for the hard of hearing with scene description, which worked, but mildly distracting. This also continued in the English dialogue, so manually set them off until the next Arabic moment. Finally got the correct sub stream.

Are the settings in LAV Splitter used in MC16? the Doom9 thread suggested that MC16 ignores the LAV Splitter settings. What should they be set at?
What is the best setting for the MC16 options for subs in this scenario. i.e. No subs for native language, but forced subs for another.   

[Trumpetguy]

Subs are an issue with RO (maybe not RO itself, but the problem occurred at the same time as RO was introduced).
Setup: .103 build, RO HQ with additional filters (ffdshow audio decoder and DirectVobSub)

In my MKVs with .sub embedded files, I have usually found DirectVobSub to be the only stable way of showing subs. Other methods have not been working or subs have stopped showing after a while (seconds or minutes). After introducing RO, this is a problem regardless of using DirectVobSub or not. It seems to me that activating this filter of removing it really does not matter. The problem is very similar to how subs behaved when I used DXVA (which I do not use anymore thanks to a new and mroe powerful GPU)

Running with RO HQ (wihtout additional filters) seems to work fine. It is when I activate additional filters the subs get in trouble. And for the time being, I need to use additional filters because I need some particular functionality in the ffdshow audio decoder. Bummer.

[Mr ChriZ]

We prefer MS DTV DVD decoder for DVD since ffdshow doesn't seem to do a good job at all.  Are there any problems with DVD playback using the MS decoder?

That's interesting.  I seem to be getting slight performance issues at the moment playing Ripped DVD's where as I didn't before and I'm fairly sure it was using FFDShow.  (Vista x64)
I need  to do more testing on this but haven't had time.

[SamuriHL]

jmone, same issue I had with subs.  I went to watch Quantum of Solace this weekend and it chose chinese subs for me! Um, WHAT?!    By default it should always choose the forced only sub track that LAV Splitter exposes.

[JohnT]

I encountered the problems using RO  with additional filters. These are standard blu-ray rips made with MakeMKV. don't have the means to provide a snippet. All videos with DTS MA failed. The one with TrueHD that played fine was the movie Zodiac.

Oh, and recently one of my DVD rips has had distorted audio on the last few builds, but didn't before.

If these problems only occur in "additional filters" mode, please post a dump of the filter graph.  Actually, post a dump either way so we can try to replicate the problem here.

[SteveGoff]

A TheaterView friendly OSD Menu that lets users select subs (and other streams) easily when it does not work

This would be a big help, and is something I've requested before. For those who don't want to use a mouse in Theater View, MCC or remote control commands for selecting audio streams and subtitles would be great. I use an iPhone remote app to control Media Center, and having such commands available via remote control, WebRemote, and MCWS would be very useful. There is a Media Core Command called MCC_DVD_SET_AUDIO_STREAM, No. 28015, but I have not had a chance to find out whether it switches audio streams in various containers.

[SteveGoff]

If these problems only occur in "additional filters" mode, please post a dump of the filter graph.  Actually, post a dump either way so we can try to replicate the problem here.

I'll attempt to do this soon, but my work week is looking grim.

[globetrotters1]

Switching on RO makes my video (playing an MKV movie) very choppy and the subtitles simply disappeared. Switching it off made all problems go away and it worked perfectly as before

[JimH]

Switching on RO makes my video (playing an MKV movie) very choppy and the subtitles simply disappeared. Switching it off made all problems go away and it worked perfectly as before

Which version?

[SteveGoff]

If these problems only occur in "additional filters" mode, please post a dump of the filter graph.  Actually, post a dump either way so we can try to replicate the problem here.

Since I cannot get video to play at all using RO with additional filters, I'm no sure how I'd copy the graph to the clipboard while the video is playing.

[SteveGoff]

Well, I have mixed results with my HD MKV files:

a) On one computer with version .104 I can now get Red October with Additional Filters to play fine. But with the last few builds Red October HD now has jerky video on all videos, whereas it didn't used to. (This computer has an i3 and an ATI HD 5450.) Perhaps something in the last few builds of MadVR changed things. This is disappointing, since the benefit from MadVR was apparent, until it became unusable.

For a while Red October crashed on the above computer with the .104 build, but some restarts and fiddling seemed to fix this. When it crashed several times it threw up the same window describer below.

b) On my other computer (E5300 and ATI HD 5570) with version .104 Red October crashes mostly when starting an MKV playback, and worked for a short while. When it crashes a windows says:

assertion failed

Program:...
File: libavutil/mathematics.c
Line: 79

Expression: c>0

I take it this has to do with an FFmpeg file of some sort.

I can get this one to work by using Windows Merit Based system and selecting my own filters, including LAV Splitter, LAV Audio, and ffdshow video decoder or ArcSoft Video Decoder. EDIT: Using ffdshow video decoder I get a lot of video freezes on merit based, but not when using ArcSoft video decoder. Ffdshow video did not used to have this problem.

One step forward, one step back.

LATER EDIT: Well, now on the second computer Red October simply won't work, always crashes as above on MKV files. I can get merit based to work, but no variant on Red October. .103 was fairly stable for me on Red October. .104 is not on this computer. By the way, Red October works for DVD rips, but does not for MKV.

[SteveGoff]

I uninstalled .104 and reinstalled, and Red October now works again on my computer with the E5300 and HD 5570.

[Trumpetguy]

Sub Handling is still not quite right, and most are the same suggestions as before:
1) On Text Subs you seem to be hiding/unhiding the Subtitle option instead of just turning it on / off giving strange behavior that sometimes needs you to toggle the Right Click --> Subtitles --> On/Off
2) Forced Subs (from LAVSplitter):  I'd suggest that you need to auto select any Forced Sub stream where the Audio Language = Sub Lang
3) A TheaterView friendly OSD Menu that lets users select subs (and other streams) easily when it does not work

Any progress on this?

This is my experience:
1) Not 'sometimes' but after ever few seconds toggle on/off is needed. Almost always after pause or skip back/forward.
2) Makes no difference
3) Even better: A dedicated keyboard shortcut to toggle subs on/off on the selected language. Using right click and two menu levels twice is too disturbing. In particular when using madVR and this action causes toggle between Exclusive and Window modes.

[Daydream]

This method with everybody testing different clips on different hardware and reporting different problems made my head spin. Next time (There won't be no next time / I apologize even though I know its lies - sorry, Eminem moment here) maybe it'll help if JRiver comes out with a standard procedure for testing, test files included.

Here's my experience:

Test configuration:
Windows 7 x64 Ultimate. Microsoft Foundation codecs are all turned off via third party tool.
ATI 5770, Catalyst 11.5. Video settings are all OFF except Automatic Deinterlacing and Pulldown detection (not sure if it matters in this context)
CPU Phenom X4 9950 (the first generation)
FFDshow, LAV Splitter/Audio & Haali Splitter are installed separately for reasons that preclude the test (they're not meant to play a role, but I'm not gonna uninstall them)

MC 16.0.105. Audio for Video is set to bitstream, using the ATI card. No VideoClock.

Test files: (I can't line them up but in a code block). I picked them up from AVSForum but I'm sure there can be better sets (this is not an exhaustive test).

Code: [Select]

8.3mbps-1080p-30fps-L4.1-3ref.m2ts | M2TS: Standard 1080p M2TS ripped from a blu-ray
6mbps-480i-MPEG-ASF.dvr-ms | DVR-MS: Microsoft's old proprietary TV recording format
8mbps-1080p-24fps-WMV9-6chWMA.wmv | WMV9: 1080p WMV9 video with 5.1 WMA audio
10mbps-1080i-60fps-L5.1-8ref-HDTV.mkv | HDTV: 1080i 60hz HDTV rip, no audio
11.6mbps-1080p-AVCHD-Sony-Camcorder.m2ts | AVCHD: 1080p M2TS from a Sony HD camcorder
19mbps-1080p-24fps-L5.1-16ref-improper.mkv | Improper encode: The infamous Planet Earth clip with an absurd 16 reframes. The bird scene stutters even on high end PCs
10.2mbps-1080p-24fps-L4.1-5ref-DTS.mkv | DTS: Standard DTS 5.1 audio
28mbps-L4.1-DTS-MA.m2ts | DTS-MA: 7.1 DTS-MA lossless audio
30mbps-L4.1-TrueHD.m2ts | Dolby TrueHD: 7.1 lossless TrueHD audio
4377kbps-1080p-24fps-L5.0-9ref-AAC.mp4 | MP4: 1080p L5.0 Apple trailer with 9 reframes and AAC audio
L4.1-8ref-6ch-FLAC-SSAsubs.mkv | 5.1 FLAC + SSA: Multichannel FLAC audio and SSA (ASS 4.0) subs including complex styles and transitions
SD-25fps-RV40.rmvb | RMVB: Real Video variable bitrate. Unknown if it is RM9 or RM10, as they both use the same header (RV40)
15mbps-1080p-L4.0-4ref-dualAC3.trp | TRP: 1080p Kaon DVB Transport Stream with dual AC3 audio
Multilanguage-UTF8-SRT.mkv | UTF-8: MKV with the following UTF-8 SRT sub tracks: Arabic, Chinese, English, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Thai, Turkish and Vietnamese
Slicies MPEG2 NTSC 1080i 29.97.ts | Deinterlacing: 1080i test pattern to determine deinterlacing capabilities (see here for details)

I run through the samples twice, first time with "Red October" setting on, second time with Red October HQ on. Meanwhile tomorrow became today and I didn't have time to run stuff in relation to Red October plus additional filters and the likes.
When I say the status was "OK" I mean the playback was fine by all and every means. Next are the filters used and the renderer. All ffdshow audio and video instances mentioned below are auto-configured. Things like JRiver monitor filters and split second stops when changing madVR from window to exclusive are not taken into account.


Red October:

01) M2TS: Standard 1080p M2TS ripped from a blu-ray
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR

02) DVR-MS: Microsoft's old proprietary TV recording format
OK. ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, some Decrypt filters, EVR.

03) WMV9: 1080p WMV9 video with 5.1 WMA audio
OK. ASF reader, WMVideoDecoder DMO, WMAudioDecoder DMO, EVR

04) HDTV: 1080i 60hz HDTV rip, no audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow video, EVR

05) AVCHD: 1080p M2TS from a Sony HD camcorder
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR.
Note: The stream shows PGS and Forced (auto) subtitles. I doubt there are any embeded since there is no speech. When changing subs the screen blinks (one black frame)

06) Improper encode: The infamous Planet Earth clip with an absurd 16 reframes.
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR.
Note: for fun, CPU usage reaches 37%

07) DTS: Standard DTS 5.1 audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR
Note: changing subs the screen blinks.

08) DTS-MA: 7.1 DTS-MA lossless audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR

09) Dolby TrueHD: 7.1 lossless TrueHD audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR

10) MP4: 1080p L5.0 Apple trailer with 9 reframes and AAC audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR

11) 5.1 FLAC + SSA: Multichannel FLAC audio and SSA (ASS 4.0) subs including complex styles and transitions
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR
Note: the ASS subs, with all their complexity show correctly. The screen blinks when changing subs.

12) RMVB: Real Video variable bitrate. Unknown if it is RM9 or RM10, as they both use the same header (RV40)
RealPlayer 6.0 or above required (download; declined) or the file won't play.

13) TRP: 1080p Kaon DVB Transport Stream with dual AC3 audio
MC opens the external player (in my case MPC-HC) to play this format (plays fine in MPC-HC). On what planet are they using this format?

14) UTF-8: MKV with the following UTF-8 SRT sub tracks: Arabic, Chinese, English, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Thai, Turkish and Vietnamese
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR.
This is an Xvid encoded file (Simple@L3). All subs show up correctly.

15) Deinterlacing: 1080i test pattern to determine deinterlacing capabilities
Deinterlacing is at the level of (Motion) Adaptive and/or Bob. Not at the level of Vector Adaptive.



MC was set to RedOctober HQ, restarted, verified that the chosen option is still in place.


Red October HQ:

01) M2TS: Standard 1080p M2TS ripped from a blu-ray
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR

02) DVR-MS: Microsoft's old proprietary TV recording format
MC hung (black screen), no response. Right click option unavailable. Killed via TaskManager.
Second attempt - all OK. ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, some Decrypt filters, madVR.

03) WMV9: 1080p WMV9 video with 5.1 WMA audio
OK. ASF reader, WMVideoDecoder DMO, WMAudioDecoder DMO, madVR

04) HDTV: 1080i 60hz HDTV rip, no audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow video, madVR

05) AVCHD: 1080p M2TS from a Sony HD camcorder
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, EVR.
Note: The stream shows PGS and Forced (auto) subtitles. I doubt there are any embeded since there is no speech. When changing subs the video stops for half a second. No blinking.

06) Improper encode: The infamous Planet Earth clip with an absurd 16 reframes.
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR.
Note: for fun, CPU usage reaches 46%

07) DTS: Standard DTS 5.1 audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR
Note: changing subs the video stops for half a second.

08) DTS-MA: 7.1 DTS-MA lossless audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR

09) Dolby TrueHD: 7.1 lossless TrueHD audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR

10) MP4: 1080p L5.0 Apple trailer with 9 reframes and AAC audio
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR

11) 5.1 FLAC + SSA: Multichannel FLAC audio and SSA (ASS 4.0) subs including complex styles and transitions
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR
Note: the ASS subs show correctly. The video stops for half a second when changing subs.

12) RMVB: Real Video variable bitrate. Unknown if it is RM9 or RM10, as they both use the same header (RV40)
RealPlayer 6.0 or above required (download) or the file won't play.

13) TRP: 1080p Kaon DVB Transport Stream with dual AC3 audio
MC opens the external player (in my case MPC-HC) to play this format (plays fine in MPC-HC).

14) UTF-8: MKV with the following UTF-8 SRT sub tracks: Arabic, Chinese, English, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Thai, Turkish and Vietnamese
OK. LAV Splitter, ffdshow audio, ffdshow video, madVR.
This is an Xvid encoded file (Simple@L3). All subs show up correctly.

15) Deinterlacing: 1080i test pattern to determine deinterlacing capabilities
Deinterlacing is at the level of Vector Adaptive.


General notes:
- All files used are short samples, trailers and the likes. They may not be enough for users who experienced problems after 5 minutes of playing or like that, but it should be enough to check if there is a persistent problem. An even better researched files pack would probably help even more.
- Ogg (available on the file set @ AVSforum) was note tested, MC refuses to play it, maybe because it expects to have only audio content? I can't care less, just explaining why is not up top.
- DirectSound was used every time, not WASAPI. I remember this was being discussed at some length, I'm not sure if it was fixed and I need to change something in my setup or it's still under investigation.
- The subs work but 1) I don't think I covered all possible types of subs; I would still like to try more Blu-Ray subs. 2) as indicated above the sub changing experience it's not as smooth as it should be. In other players the sub disappears (so you may miss a line) and then reappears synced, while the video plays at all times. Currently here everything stops and then everything resumes.
- This whole test is of no use to anybody that wants to stick with hardware accelerated decoding.

[The Mastermind]

Watching a 1080i MKV I'm getting very noticeable tearing with RO HQ. Has anyone else manged to fix this?

In all other respects the file looks great.

If I fix it I'll let you all know.

[JimH]

System specs please.  It could just be a low powered PC.

[BartMan01]

Just wiped and redid my wmc system from scratch.  Starting from a fresh install with no codecs or filters installed, RO is using MadVR for video with no HW acceleration.   Don't see anyway to turn on HW acceleration either.  ATI 5570 card.

Edit - this was with RO hq mode.  Reg RO mode didn't have HW acceleration either using EVR.

[jmone]

RO does not (at this stage as far as I know use any HW Accel).  Then again, unless you have a weak / old CPU you would not normally want to use HW Accel.  That said, if you need or want HW Accel you can turn off RO and play with the filters.

[Trumpetguy]

RO does not (at this stage as far as I know use any HW Accel).  Then again, unless you have a weak / old CPU you would not normally want to use HW Accel.  That said, if you need or want HW Accel you can turn off RO and play with the filters.

How do you turn off RO? RO overrides my "additional filters" in an almost arbitrary manner. Some filters are recognized and others are not. Examples: ffdshow audio decoder works fine as additional filter. DirectVobSub is in the filter graph, but subs are not rendered correctly. If I add madVR as video renderer (to use a version of my own choice), RO still uses its own. If I try to add custom processing in ffdshow video decoder, RO overrides these and uses the auto-configured ffdshow.

I clearly see RO as the right way forward for MC, but there should be a way to turn it off!

[jmone]

Ummm - I'm not sure what version it is released in but you have (or shortly will) the option to do so under: Tools --> Options --> Video --> General Video Settings --> DirectShow Selection method --> Advanced --> Windows Merit based (less stable).

Shortly released versions have more better RO tweaking with the "additional filters" option that should let you do what you need. 

All coming soon!

[Trumpetguy]

Ummm - I'm not sure what version it is released in but you have (or shortly will) the option to do so under: Tools --> Options --> Video --> General Video Settings --> DirectShow Selection method --> Advanced --> Windows Merit based (less stable).

Merit based DirectShow configuration is already there in .105 (and some earlier, I think). Problem is that merit based is not working as "custom configuration", or I have not understood how to use it. If I use merit based and specify madVR video renderer, it still uses EVR. Maybe there is some way to change Windows merit config outside MC?

Shortly released versions have more better RO tweaking with the "additional filters" option that should let you do what you need.  

All coming soon!

  Looking forward to it! And I am impressed with the work and development speed of MC! And they possibility for us users to make a difference in this development. Please keep up the good work!

[The Mastermind]

Watching a 1080i MKV I'm getting very noticeable tearing with RO HQ.

Fixed it by changing the device type in MVR.

System specs please.  It could just be a low powered PC.

I won't, as I'm going to try some significant hardware upgrades tomorrow.

[tls62dk]

I can't get my WTV files to run under RO HQ. Whenever I try I get an error meassage saying "Directshow: Unspecified error". The WTV files are recordings from Windows Media Center.

Running Windows 7 64 bit. I have no external filters installed.

I did a test as requested. I change to RO HQ with additional filters and chose JRiver Video Engine for WTV files. Source filter is set to Automatic, Other Filters has nothing selected and Video Renderer is set to EVR. Voila, my WTV files plays as they should.

Does this indicate that MadVR has problems with my WTV files?

TLS

EDIT: A little more information. The directshow error only comes under RO HQ when I try to play HD WTV files. SD WTV files will start playing, but will randomly have no picture or no sound.

[The Mastermind]

I have some old RMVB files that don't play under either RO config.

[sunfire7]

How to manually add a filter to the RO white list??