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[Matt]

We were talking about how we handle video bookmarking today.  We didn't have strong opinions about it, so thought it might be good to describe our current approach, and then open it up for discussion.

When a file finishes playback (because of a stop or end of file), we have the bookmark in memory.

If we reached the end of the file, we empty the bookmark.

If we played less than 60 seconds into the file, we empty the bookmark (unless it's a DVD).

Then we store this bookmark in the database record for the file.

At playback time, we decide whether to use the saved bookmark.

By default, we use the bookmark for video, audio books, and podcasts.  If the file has a value in the "Use Bookmarking" field, we use that instead.

When a bookmark is used, it is automatic.  We never ask the user questions.

If you push stop twice, it clears a bookmark for the file that was just played.

Thoughts?  Advice?

Thanks.

[SamuriHL]

I've been meaning to ask about this feature.  Is there a way to permanently turn this off?  It personally drives me nuts, although I didn't know about hitting stop twice to remove the bookmark.  Nonetheless it's a feature I don't want on ever.  Thanks!

[marko]

The current system works well for me, I am at ease with it.

There's one addition I could use, but it's a bit of a grey area...

I have to remember to hit the stop button twice when I finish watching a movie, otherwise, next time we want to watch, it's like an old VHS tape that no-one ever rewound, and it starts playing the end credits!

If we press Stop and there's, what, five minutes or less? remaining, clear the bookmark too?

-marko.

Edit:
SamuriHL
Select all video files, right click in the tag window, "Also show", select "Use Bookmarking", then set it to "No"

[SamuriHL]

Edit:
SamuriHL
Select all video files, right click in the tag window, "Also show", select "Use Bookmarking", then set it to "No"

That's not very convenient.  I suggest an option in the preferences somewhere to disable it permanently.  Just a recommendation.

[MrC]

By default, we use the bookmark for video, audio books, and podcasts.  If the file has a value in the "Use Bookmarking" field, we use that instead.

I like the bookmarks, and use them frequently.  The audio files I use them on mostly come from several Recorded Streams downloaded by Scheduler.  But bookmarking Default is not enabled for these.

Would it be possible to have Default=Yes for Scheduler downloaded files, so I don't have to manually set Use Bookmarking (which is what I do now).

[Edit: sorry, I re-read and see you're asking about Video; forgive me it this is off-topic. ]

[mojave]

I would like so see three options for video, audio books, and podcasts:

Auto-Resume Playback

• Resume Playback Automatically
• Ask Each Time
• Auto-Resume Off

The Use Bookmarking tag would take precedence over the Auto-Resume settings.

[SamuriHL]

I would like so see three options for video, audio books, and podcasts:

Auto-Resume Playback

• Resume Playback Automatically
• Ask Each Time
• Auto-Resume Off

The Use Bookmarking tag would take precedence over the Auto-Resume settings.

This right here is what I'd love to see.  That's how most other players do it and I think it's a well understood and accepted model.  And maybe an advanced option somewhere to clear all set Use Bookmarking tags.  Yes, I got the suggestion above, but, a nice clean option to do it universally would be awesome.

[mojave]

You could also have the option:

Media Server Auto-Resume

• Let Each Client Auto-Resume separately

If unchecked, someone could start a movie in their home theater and then finish it in the bedroom on a laptop. Or they could start the movie on their Android device and finish it when they get home. If checked, each client would store its own Auto-Resume info and multiple clients could be watching the movie and resume at different time stamps.

[glynor]

I would like so see three options for video, audio books, and podcasts:

Auto-Resume Playback

• Resume Playback Automatically
• Ask Each Time
• Auto-Resume Off

The Use Bookmarking tag would take precedence over the Auto-Resume settings.

This would be good.  I think this option should be client-specific (so I can set my laptop to ask, but my HTPC to resume by default, or whatever).  I do think one global option for all "Auto-Resuming" would be sufficient.  I'm not sure what mojave meant, but I would not want separate options for video vs podcasts vs audiobooks.  We already have that in the "Use Bookmarking" feature, if you really need it for some reason, and that many options would be confusing and make for an ugly UI in the Options dialog.

The current system works well for me, I am at ease with it.

There's one addition I could use, but it's a bit of a grey area...

I have to remember to hit the stop button twice when I finish watching a movie, otherwise, next time we want to watch, it's like an old VHS tape that no-one ever rewound, and it starts playing the end credits!

If we press Stop and there's, what, five minutes or less? remaining, clear the bookmark too?

I agree, Marko.  The bookmarking feature almost always works fine for me as-is.  However, I do run into this exact issue quite often.  What I often hit is with my TV Show recordings, I've stopped the playback just near the end (within 30 seconds or so), but not quite at the end.  Then, if I play the file again (usually because I still don't have my dots back in Theater View), it'll resume from the end, but before I can do anything it has automatically advanced to the next file in the list.

This can be confusing and frustrating if it plays a bunch of files in a row, which all have bookmarks set in the last 1min of the file.  You see a bunch of credits over and over again, one after the other.

If it is possible to do something like Marko suggests, I'd prefer it to be based on a percentage of the total file length, rather than a fixed "within 5 min of the end" type of setup.  Movies often have 10 minutes of credits.  TV Shows never do.

Something like 97% of total run-time would probably be perfect.

[Mr ChriZ]

I'd definitely like to see it ask me if I'd like to resume

[mojave]

By default, we use the bookmark for video, audio books, and podcasts.

I would like to see three options for video, audio books, and podcasts:

I'm not sure what mojave meant, but I would not want separate options for video vs podcasts vs audiobooks.

I was just agreeing with Matt's default use of the bookmarking. It should be one option for all three.

[Matt]

Something like 97% of total run-time would probably be perfect.

I agree.  This is a simple one, so I'll add it today.

[glynor]

I agree.  This is a simple one, so I'll add it today.

Sweet!  Thanks!

If you didn't do it already, make it 96% instead.

4% of 120 min is 4.8 min.  Pretty good for Movie credits.
4% of 30 min is 1.2 min.  Pretty good for a TV Show.

I think 95% might be a bit too much, especially for shorter TV Show episodes, but that would be an option too.

[fitbrit]

I agree.  This is a simple one, so I'll add it today.

Wait, what about multi-part movies? If you stop at 98% of part 1 and wish to resume...

[glynor]

Multipart movies already don't work well with Theater View (because you no longer have access to "Play All" for anything tagged as [Media Sub Type]=Movie).  Your best bet?  Pull out MKVMerge and remux those bad boys into a single file.

I had 20 or 30 in my library and I went through and did it in one night.  It wasn't that bad, and now they're nice and in one solid file (which is nicer for tagging anyway).  MKVMerge is fast, and handles concatenation just fine, so long as your source files are a "regular" file type.

[fitbrit]

Multipart movies already don't work well with Theater View (because you no longer have access to "Play All" for anything tagged as [Media Sub Type]=Movie).  Your best bet?  Pull out MKVMerge and remux those bad boys into a single file.

I had 20 or 30 in my library and I went through and did it in one night.  It wasn't that bad, and now they're nice and in one solid file (which is nicer for tagging anyway).  MKVMerge is fast, and handles concatenation just fine, so long as your source files are a "regular" file type.

Thanks for the tip. I should do that with my LoTR EE Trilogy files - three movies, six files, 180 GB! To be fair though, I don't use Theater View that much day to day, as I have way too many untagged files currently.

I personally like the video bookmarks as they are now. Another approach used by standalone devices is to use ENTER to play from the start, and PLAY to resume, or to ask each time.

[glynor]

While you're at it?  Right click -> Get info from Wikipedia.

Works great for simple metadata on movies. 

[fitbrit]

While you're at it?  Right click -> Get info from Wikipedia.

Works great for simple metadata on movies. 

Yeah, I use it all the time, but I much prefer the "description" that IMDB gives i.e. a little about what happens in the movie rather than, "XXYYZZ is a German movie made in 2009 by AABBCC with a budget of 1 million Euros".
I was using PVDImport for a while, but there were a lot of hoops to jump through to get everything right... and then if you change the filename in MC, it breaks the relationship in PVD.
If I get everything ready to do a mass PVDImport again, or Autometa, or Sickbeard, I'll probably replace the Description field generated by Wikipedia.

[rpalmer68]

I'd like to have to optoin of being prompted to "Resume" playbak.

Quite often somebody else in the family may have watched a TV recording and stopped playback at the end (less than 96% through as I record 10 minutes of overrun).

I then go to watch and it starts at the end of the program, which I don't realise initially as I just think it's the program before ....

 

[Jaguu]

The current implementation is OK, but I also welcome the suggestions mentioned here. Clicking the Stop button twice was not obvious for me in the past as I remember I posted asking how to go back to the beginning of the video.

[raym]

Current implementation is ok for me too. Just not a fan of the white dots in Theater View. We have nice ways of displaying bookmarked files in the file info panel. The white dots look tacky by comparison IMO and it's not clear what they mean anyway. I'd like a way to turn these off.

[MrHaugen]

Multipart movies already don't work well with Theater View (because you no longer have access to "Play All" for anything tagged as [Media Sub Type]=Movie).

What? I've been asking several times if the old options is back in theater view, video view. QQ. I hope there is more control there than it was though!

Over to this subject:

Yes, the current implementation of 4% at the ending might remove some of my grief.

There is some things missing here though! Logical actions to me, wold be:
- No bookmark on files shorter than 15-20 minutes (music videos, clips etc)
- Remove bookmarks after half, or a full month (all bookmarks)

As a sidenote.
- As others have mentioned, a resume playback Yes or No popup might be handy
- And yes, an option to turn bookmarking totally off (at least if none of my previous suggestions is implemented), and an option to not showing this white dots would be good

[JimH]

What about using a date in this?  Keep a bookmark for 7 days, for example.  I usually finish a movie within 2 or 3 days, or not at all.

[MrHaugen]

What about using a date in this?  Keep a bookmark for 7 days, for example.  I usually finish a movie within 2 or 3 days, or not at all.

Sure. Date would have to be set somewhere to calculate when to remove the bookmarks. As you say, a video not resumed after a few days is often never watched again. One week would probably suffice. One month might be to much. This could be user defined, though I doubt many need bookmarks for a long time.

[glynor]

What about using a date in this?  Keep a bookmark for 7 days, for example.  I usually finish a movie within 2 or 3 days, or not at all.

Seven days is probably not quite enough.

I just finished, a few days ago, an episode of Modern Family that I'd started (and last watched) something like 2 weeks earlier.  It happens.  I'd say keep them for a month, if you're going to go this route.  Usually the online "rental" streaming services let you keep them a month, so that seems like a good target.

But... One other thing that I commonly use the bookmarks for is to see if I've finished watching a show or not.  Sometimes I start an episode, but never finish it, and then come back MUCH later and don't remember where I "left off".  I can see the Number of Plays in my Theater View setup, but sometimes it takes me 3-4 tries to finish an episode (especially now with the baby).  Later on, I don't know if Number of Plays = 1 means I finished that episode, or I only got 1/2 way through and then got distracted.  So, I go to the last one that shows a play count greater than 1, and play it.  If it "resumes" at the credits, I know I already watched that one and quickly skip to the next file.  If it resumes mid-way through, then I probably got distracted and never finished.

Either way, it'll still annoy and confuse some people that it doesn't "ask".  So, I still think the Use Bookmarking/Ask/Don't Bookmark option needs to be implemented.  And, if you have that, you might not need the complexity of the "bookmark expiration", which will block my use-case above and just add additional complexity ("the bookmark worked yesterday and now suddenly it vanished?" questions, anyone?).

[MrHaugen]

I agree that there should be some choices. It's the only thing that will make everyone happy. Perhaps choose between something like this under setup, and in options?

Bookmarking on
Bookmarking off
Smart bookmarking (remove bookmarks after 1-4 weeks?)

Ask to resume? On/Off


Or perhaps something like this should be included in first Theater View startup? Ideally, MC should have a quick wizard or easy setup on Theater view start. So you could configure TV with only a remote, direcly from the couch.

[ThoBar]

Or perhaps something like this should be included in first Theater View startup? Ideally, MC should have a quick wizard or easy setup on Theater view start. So you could configure TV with only a remote, direcly from the computer

Something like this would be excellent for new users I think... a bit of a tour, as well as "lets set things up with you". It will also help educate users as to some of the key options in MC.

Oh, and I like the options MrH listed too.

C.

[MrHaugen]

When we talk about WAF you can use all the resources to make MC have such a common setup that most users will be able to just jump in to it. No matter how much time you use though, there will always be certain options that people have different opinions about. When you always have to change to standard view to do stuff, you break some of this Theater View feeling. I've always thought that the setup part of programs like XBMC makes a lot of sense. To be able to change options basic and important setting that affects Theater View, from Theater View. It's quite a big step, and I think that other things are more pressing. But I think many users would find it very useful. I think it would be even more useful with some kind of Setup Walk Through. For new users especially. Sorry for the slight off topic wandering.

[Mr ChriZ]

On the topic of Bookmarking I'd love to see more advanced features like saving of multiple bookmarks with names.
This would be really useful for things like Music Concerts - where you could save Bookmarks for the start of songs - effectively creating you're own menu system.
I could see it being useful in other places as well - for maybe you've got a favourite section of a movie or tv-series episode?

I'd love to be able to create play lists out of those bookmarks.  A bit of one concert, a bit of another, moving from artist to artist...

This would be very powerful if combined with zones.  You could set up music to play along to sections of various videos whether that's movies, your favourite tv-series or home videos....

[rjm]

On the topic of Bookmarking I'd love to see more advanced features like saving of multiple bookmarks with names.

This idea has a lot of potential. I was thinking about constructing family presentations from a collage of home video, photos, and music. Without the hassle of producing it in a video editing/dvd authoring application.

[jmone]

Can we not set bookmarks for videos under say 10Min?  These for me a typically either Music Videos or Home Videos that I'd always want to play from the start regardless of where I stopped it last time.
Thanks
Nathan

EDIT: Another option now we use "Media Sub Type" is to not use Video Bookmarking for "Home Video" "Music Video" etc

[glynor]

Can we not set bookmarks for videos under say 10Min?

Matt didn't list it, but it does already do this. I'm not sure what the time cut off is though...

[Matt]

Can we not set bookmarks for videos under say 10Min?  These for me a typically either Music Videos or Home Videos that I'd always want to play from the start regardless of where I stopped it last time.

This is another good idea that's simple to implement.

Next build:
Changed: Bookmarks are not used for videos that are shorter than 15 minutes.

[glynor]

This is another good idea that's simple to implement.

Next build:
Changed: Bookmarks are not used for videos that are shorter than 15 minutes.

Guess I was wrong.  I thought it already did this...

[Matt]

Next build:
NEW: Added Options > General > Resume playback using bookmarks.  Available modes are Automatic, Never, and Ask.

[MrHaugen]

Great news!

[SamuriHL]

Next build:
NEW: Added Options > General > Resume playback using bookmarks.  Available modes are Automatic, Never, and Ask.

Thank you!!!!

[glynor]

Next build:
NEW: Added Options > General > Resume playback using bookmarks.  Available modes are Automatic, Never, and Ask.

Nice!  Hope it wasn't too much trouble.

[mojave]

[lepa]

same as above