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Author Topic: Refresh rate change for ISO?  (Read 7523 times)

Sandy B Ridge

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Refresh rate change for ISO?
« on: October 02, 2011, 03:34:48 pm »

I've noticed that the refresh rate does not change when I 'play' an ISO. I'm pretty convinced that this used to work, but can't definitely remember!

Because of Live TV at 50Hz, I keep my desktop rate at 50Hz, so it would be nice if the refresh rate would change when I play a bluray (ripped to iso and played back using Clonedrive). I have manually tagged the iso files with 23.976 in the FPS tag, since it was blank (apart form the few that I have which are 50i).

What's also odd is that playing the file from 'Drives/Devices' also doesn't change the refresh rate to 23p. I have to manually tag the file with 23.976 and then it does.

I know that reripping these to BDMV folders will probably solve it, but I want to keep the option of opening the iso files in PowerDVD for the menus and extras, and my version doesn't support folder playback. So I'm stuck with iso at the moment.

Is there something I'm doing wrong to get the iso to work with refresh rate change?

SBR

Edit: it would be 'nice' if the refresh rate change was the very first thing that MC did on 'play', because that takes a couple of seconds on my TV, much slower than starting the actual playback!
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jmone

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2011, 04:06:02 pm »

I use the display rate changing features of madVR as the catch-all for the stuff that MC does not do (eg Discs and ISO).  I've not looked but if you change the refresh rate while playing to the first time (right click --> Windows --> Screen Resolution) it may keep these settings in the DB for the next time you playback the disc.
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Sandy B Ridge

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 05:27:23 pm »

I use the display rate changing features of madVR as the catch-all for the stuff that MC does not do (eg Discs and ISO).
Good idea, thanks. I've not tried this since MC had a native refresh rate changer.
Quote
I've not looked but if you change the refresh rate while playing to the first time (right click --> Windows --> Screen Resolution) it may keep these settings in the DB for the next time you playback the disc.
Yes, thanks. I didn't think of that! This does work.
I assume that it would forget this setting if you do a 'stop' twice? Or does that just clear the bookmark?

I ran into an annoying bug though (windows not MC). When I first tried to select the screen resolution by this method 23p wasn't available (and consequently the 23p and 24p settings in Video->Display settings-> had defaulted to 'Desktop resolution').   
23&24Hz weren't available in the windows resolution switcher, but I could happily change it to 23p or 24p in the NVIDIA control panel. Weird! 
?
A reboot sorted it. I have been having trouble with my amp not broadcasting 23/24Hz support (in the EDID) sometimes even though the TV does. I've even installed an EDID override to try and help! Windows must have forgotten the override on waking up from sleep at some point!

Thanks again.

SBR
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jmone

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2011, 05:40:36 pm »

I have the same issue in that my V2700 EDID does not broadcast 23/24hz support but you can "force it".  I did the same thing to add a custom res in the nvidia panel then ensure that windows has the "Hide modes that this monitor cannot display" unchecked.  MC will then be able to see and use it.  Also have a read of http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1529693#post1529693 as Custom Res uses a different video range to the Std Ones (at least for me).  Given all the grief I'm sorely tempted to relace my Receiver.....
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jmone

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 04:40:51 am »

Well the V2700 is being retired - going for the Yami A3000 (don't tell Matt - he likes to build his own!) - I'm just over fighting the EDID issues.....
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Sandy B Ridge

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 04:29:40 am »

Well the V2700 is being retired - going for the Yami A3000 (don't tell Matt - he likes to build his own!) - I'm just over fighting the EDID issues.....

Looks like a great spec. I had the V2700 on my shortlist when I was buying a few years ago. I like the Yamis, partly because i had a 2Ch as my first ever 'proper' amp. Played it to death! (I was at Uni at the time!)

Did you have a home demo?

SBR
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Sandy B Ridge

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 04:35:45 am »

I have the same issue in that my V2700 EDID does not broadcast 23/24hz support but you can "force it". 

Is there a way to force it, other than an EDID override (which I've done)? Does adding a custom res 'force' windows to list a 23p rate?

What happened the other day where NVIDIA control panel would show 23p as an option, but windows to not show it (and therefore MC didn't show it either) was a bit bizarre, but I predict it will probably happen again!  :-\

Not sure if it is sleep related. I was hoping that the EDID override would 'fix' the EDID indefinitely.

SBR
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Sandy B Ridge

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 08:10:22 am »

I use the display rate changing features of madVR as the catch-all for the stuff that MC does not do (eg Discs and ISO).

Bingo!

This works well now thanks.

SBR
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jmone

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 04:25:43 pm »

So - nvidia will allow you to make a custom res, and then when you "Test" and it is sucessful it adds it to the list.  MC will see it at this point.  I had also tried a custom EDID override made by Tulli (AVSFORUM EDID override thread) but while "correct" my receiver/TV could not sync to the signal as apparantly these overrides doen't have the same level of presision.  Anyway, it turns out that by using very specific settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1342408) I could get the custom res working without losing sound.  So over the years, I've found that I could add a EDID for Intel GPU, ATI through their CCC, and nvidia was the pickiest to get going.  Hence....I've given up and moved to the A3000, and all because Yami could not be bothered fixing a small firmware bug on the EDID transmition.  I too am just "used" to Yami and the A3000 are being run out as the A3010 are now out.
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Sandy B Ridge

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 05:11:58 pm »

Great, thanks.

I had already (this morning in fact!) got around to creating a custom res to get closer to 23.976. I was hovering around 23.971 with the stock settings, but hadn't quite had the time to Google/sort it out. It's good news that the custom res will 'stick' despite the EDID problems I was having - I have my fingers crossed that it will! I used renethx settings from Avsforum - now getting 23.9758 or so - gotta be happy with that!

Now I'm really happy with the settings of my system:
I'm not getting any framedrops with MadVR (the 60i clips needed overclocking as one of them was running 95% GPU activity!)
I have the processing set to something that looks great both for SD live TV and for HD stuff
I've even ventured back to bitstreaming everything(!) and not getting the old pops and squeaks from the amp, (I think the NVIDIA card has helped with this too.)
All my content now play at the source framerate (incl. ISO)
I've stopped the problem with Norton hogging disc activity mid-film too.

Super-loads of thanks for your help Nathan.

SBR

Edit: I occasionally get a video that will stutter and framedrop, or sometimes no audio, but a 'stop' and 'play' will sort it - it's almost as if something doesn't quite get initialised properly or a buffer not quite filled. On resuming play I'll get no drops again (or the audio will be back).
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jmone

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2011, 05:15:06 am »

SBR - always good to discuss stuff with those that "get it"!  Anyway, couple of ideas:
- Bitstreaming Vs Decoding:  It you bit stream you "have" to get dropped video frames at some point as the clocks for audio and video are different.  You can chase every closer clock rates and may get close enough that you will not see any dropped frames over the typical length of a move.  The other "answer" is to decode on the PC to LPCM and use VideoClock to resample the audio to keep it in sync.  The only real downside of this is you don't get the pretty HD Audio lights on your AV Receiver glowing!  That said, with my new A3000 I will be checking both options out.
- Try in madVR setting the "delay playback start until render queue is full" and see if that helps
- The 60fps stuff will be the hardest as every frame needs to be decoded, deinterlaced & rendered in 16.67ms!
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Sandy B Ridge

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2011, 05:51:10 am »

- Bitstreaming Vs Decoding:  It you bit stream you "have" to get dropped video frames at some point as the clocks for audio and video are different.  You can chase every closer clock rates and may get close enough that you will not see any dropped frames over the typical length of a move.  The other "answer" is to decode on the PC to LPCM and use VideoClock to resample the audio to keep it in sync.  The only real downside of this is you don't get the pretty HD Audio lights on your AV Receiver glowing!  That said, with my new A3000 I will be checking both options out.

Cheers mate! I realise the bitstream vs decode argument, (and your previous posts about it!) hence the (!) in my previous post!!! LOL

I'm such a happy bunny now that everything seems to have come together for my setup on the video side.

My criteria when looking for a system was essentially being able to output over HDMI any source natively (ie at native framerate for video and at native bitdepth and samplerate for audio (including native HD codecs)). This I have finally now achieved, so hence why I'm pleased. However, I have also learned along the way over the past 6 months that there may be a *better* way rather than just 'native'.

The reason why I love JRiver MC is that it makes tinkering (optimisation?) easy. This forum is *so* helpful both from the Dev team, but also just from users general experience. It feels like a great 'community'! I hope I can help others over the next few months/years as I gain experience in using MC as I'd like to put back in what I have got out of it.

Of course, there are aspects of MC that I personally think are deficient, but I will leave that for a rainy day. I hope these will be resolved in MC17 as I have no doubt that I will continue to support this superb product (both here and on other forums).

SBR 
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JimH

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Re: Refresh rate change for ISO?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 06:15:12 am »

Thanks!
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