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[Daniel38]

First, let me say how silly this whole message board stuff is.  Had I known this is how Media Jukebox decided to handle it's customer service, I would have never forked over $25 bucks to them.  My fault, next time I'll be sure to investigate how a company handles customer service BEFORE handing over my money..
Anyway...
My version is 7.2.272  When I click "check for updates" it says No updates available.  I knew this couldn't be true, since the other day Cnet update told me there was; so I visited the website.  Now, explain this to me: Why is there a version 7.2.280 AND a version 8.0?  What is the difference between the 2, and why haven't you bothered to explain the difference?  If my license works with the 8.0, then why doesn't my update work? And while I'm asking why, why doesn't my update even tell me that 7.2.280 is available?  Please post an answer.
For the record, I am getting tired of companies taking my money only to turn around and stick their hands out for more.  I am not paying for another upgrade, especially considering I just bought this not a year ago, and especially considering Windows Media player gets better with each update.  The only reason I purchased this in the first place was because I needed an editor, and once again, my fault, there are other editors out there, cheaper, from companies who don't think they're too good to answer e-mails from their customers.
And finally, thank you for the laugh: When I saw the "promote Media Jukebox" ad I couldn't help but laugh.  Promote it?  I wouldn't recommend it, much less promote it!

[IRONPANTS]

Quick, before Daniel38 reloads, someone go in with comments ablazin'.

-IRONPANTS

[AlonsoN]

Ok, Daniel, here is the scoop:

Re: This board: This method of customer service works.  Just so you know, I'm a customer...  Most of the time folks who come in here guns blazing about how (*&^(*&^ this is, once they take time to look around and understand how well this works, end up thinking it's great.  You get informed answers from the company exec's, developers and users all in one spot, rather than minimum wage script readers who could not solve a simple problem if their life depended on it.  

Re: v7.2.xxx is the current release, ie stable version.  V8.xx is just getting out of beta testing and they posted the first RC (Release Candidate) yesterday.  That means you can download and use it, and it should work just great, but please have a sence of humor if things don't go perfectly smoothly, AND post your problems here where they WILL get addressed.  It's neat that way.  When was the last time you posted a problem to M$ and they fixed it for you?

MJ is a great tool, folks who like it love it.

Your v7 licence with work with v8, so smile and say thanks to the folks at MJ.  When was the last time M$ handed you a major upgrade w/o charging?

I agree that with you about the information and navigation on the web site.  Could/should be clearer.

So, does that help?  Is there anything else on your mind?

[Doof]

Take a breath. Relax. You've just bought the greatest media player around with the greatest support around. You just haven't realized it yet.

Why is MJ the greatest media player around? Because it was designed by US, the users of the program. The JRiver guys come in here, looking for suggestions and ideas for features, then implement them in a hopefully easy to use manner. If at first they don't succeed, they read the complaints from the users and try to make it better. I've tried every jukebox application out there (Winamp, Sonique, Real Jukebox, RealOne, Siren Jukebox, WMP and few others) and not ONE of them has ever even asked for ideas on how to make it better, let alone implement some of those ideas. When I first came here (I'm sure everybody is sick of hearing this story), there was one niggling little thing that kept me from buying. I brought it up in here, and later that day, a change was made. Obviously, you can't expect that kind of response all the time, but it was a great first impression, and since then there have been numerous features that I have suggested (as well as countless others by many different users here) that have been implemented. Don't like something about the way it works? Bring it up in here. If a lot of people like your ideas, it just may make it into the next version.

As for support... I've been working in IT for 10 years now, and in that time I've spent many long long hours of my life on the phone with "tech support". You quickly realize that the definition of "tech support" most companies use nowadays is somebody who's only reading a script off a screen in front of them. They have no idea what you're telling them. They're only punching in keywords into a database and hoping for a result. Here, you have access to not only a crew of very knowledgeable users, but you also get to talk directly to the people who wrote this program, and the owner and CEO himself. Look around a while and I think you'll see that this system really does work better. Ask your question about MJ (nicely - people around here tend to respond in the same spirit in which the question was asked) and you should get the answer you're looking for. If nobody answers you right away it's more than likely because it was just missed, so just post a "bump" reply into your own thread so that it gets bumped to the top. Rest assured, you'll get the help you need.

So give it a try and keep an open mind. I think you'll like what you see.

[Bob L.]

Hello Daniel38,

To echo some previous comments (and add my 2 cents):

Try to give this form of customer support the benefit of the doubt.  I know it can be frustrating to have to put everything in writing and not be able to talk to a human being but there are some real benefits here.  Response time is very quick, you get user perspectives as well as the corporate line (which is actually very humane and insightful as well), and the discipline and paper trail of the process can actually lead to a quicker solution than phone calls.  There's also a lot to learn by searching the old threads.

As to upgrade costs, etc.  Think of this as a cross between a purchase and a subscription.  JRiver has to make enough money to support the continued development of this product, which I believe has been and will continue to be significant given their very real enthusiasm for what they do.

Ultimately, your attitude will be shaped by how well the product performs.  If you can adapt to some of the personality quirks of JRiver, it's users and forum support, so much the better.  BTW, I personally would rather have personality quirks than the faceless, impersonal and ineffective interaction that is so common with most of todays technology companies.

Good luck,

Bob L.

[Doof]

And just for the record, I'm not sure why 7.2.272 isn't telling you about 7.2.280.

It won't tell you about 8, because 8 is a beta and not a full release yet.

It's possible that in the 8.0 beta testing furvor, something broke on the JRiver server in regards to 7.2 updates.

If you want to try 8, you should find it to be very stable and a lot nicer and cleaner than 7.2. Your 7.2 license will work with 8. After that (like 8.1 or 9 or whatever) it gets fuzzy. As far as I know, JRiver hasn't reached a definite decision on that. It used to be that a ver. 6 license also got you ver. 7, and a ver. 7 license also got you ver. 8.

[claudio]

Hey Daniel,

my first reaction to a post like yours would be to tell you to take a chill pill...your way and attitute is the absolute worst way to get ANY kind of support, being it on a forum or over the phone. Because a system is different from what you are used to, don't assume that is iferior and that people are trying to screw you... As many other have said, give it a try and you will see that it actually works quite better them most others tech support out there.

Your questions have already been answered so I won't bother repeating the obvious

Claudio

[mphorton]

Daniel38

Give the system a chance before you attack. I've tried traditional tech support countless times--Microtek, Turtle Beach, Roadrunner, Roxio and Microsoft, to name a few--and found the process to be maddingly inefficient, pointless, frustrating, etc. There's an interesting site that tested the efficiency of MS tech support as compared with simply calling a psychic hot line, and found that MS could hold its own in the battle, but their experience with traditional tech support was far more positive than my own (http://www.bmug.org/news/articles/MSvsPF.html). Tech support people typically have a script to which they must adhere, and if your problem deviates from the pattern of that script, well then you're out of luck. Here, there is no script, just hundreds of people that actually use the program and who have a vested interest in seeing that the program thrives. It may take time for an answer, but at least you're not stuck on hold while the second or third ignorant and unfriendly tech support hack tried to track down a supervisor who, if located, will likely tell you that they've done all that they can do for you. Here, you just "bump" up the thread until you get an answer. Oh, on the down side, here you don't get the pleasure of going out of your bloody mind from being forced to listen to an easy-listening musak version of a Crowded House or Replacements song, or a classical piccolo solo, while you're waiting for news that you're screwed.

Michael

[Daniel38]

This is my point exactly..
All you people are other customers.  While I thank you for your responses, you have proven my point exactly:
Not to be smart about it, but, how much are the folks at jriver paying you for offering customer support?  Zilch, zippo, zero, nada, nothing.
I am not some a**hole who likes to find something to gripe about.  The truth is I work very hard for my money, and while some of you might spend $25 for lunch, I can tell you that 25 bucks to me is not anything to sneeze at, much less burp up on the way back to the office.  It seems that more and more, companies are taking this attitude, particularly where software is concerned, that we should be grateful to them that they actually took our money.  Well, I'm not grateful; if I pay for a hamburger at Mickey D's and it's not the way I like it, I tell them to make it right: I don't write a note on the wrapper and pass it around to the other customers.  If I take my truck to a repair shop and they don't fix it right, I tell them either make it right or pay someone who can make it right: I don't write the symptoms in the dust on the hood and hope some passerby knows how to get me up and running again.  And when I buy software, I expect if I have a problem to be able to talk to someone who actually works for the company that made it.  If that's too much to ask, I apologize.  On second thought, I don't apologize. If that's too much to ask, next time, I'll take my business elsewhere.  
Lastly, this was the last resort; I tried to download the 8.0, but I got a message telling me that it was 'temporarily unavailable'.  I then tried to download the 7.2.280 and it started twice and then quit:  That's when I thought perhaps it was time to talk to someone who knew more about this than me.  Noted, I was frustrated, but I understand that the Internet is far from the perfection envisioned, and I totally understand that there are times when things just aren't going to work like they should.  But on top of everything, to see messages repeated over and over "we do not repond to support questions" in the contact us page and be forced to use a message board...
As far as fast goes, yes, I got fast replies; unfortunately, I still have the same problems.
Fast doesn't always mean best.

[mphorton]

Daniel38

Had your post been limited to a request for help--without the commentary on lack of tech support--no one would have been talking about the benefits of this kind of tech support. I think that you missed our point--we don't want that kind of support. This works. Give it a shot. This was the first "chat" forum of any kind that I ever posted to, and I didn't like the idea at first. But I discoved that its effective, and that we haven't been abandoned by the company. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Search for posts by Matt, John T, Jim H or Nikolay Sokratov (company employees), and you'll see that they are actively involved in this forum. They care enough about the product to actively participate in these discussions. Is that true of other companies?

Michael

[JimH]

Daniel,
I do work for JRiver.  Please find another company to abuse.  Your $25 buys you use of the program and support if you're polite, but it doesn't buy you the right to demand anything here.

If you want to cool off, people will try to help, but if you don't, then I don't want you around here.  Your call.

Jim

[Doof]

Well, to be fair, you've only just barely told us what your problem actually is. Is 7.2.272 not working? If you're only problem is that you can't get the update, then like you said, the internet isn't perfect, sometimes things happen. The best you can do is report the problem and wait. What I fail to understand is why you think that you'd get a faster solution to that particular problem if you talked to a JRiver employee on the phone. Something's up with the FTP site. I'm sure they're working on it and once it's fixed it'll work. It was actually just posted in another thread that somebody else couldn't find 8 on the FTP site. So apparently it's been taken down for some reason. I'm sure one of the guys will let us know what was up.

If you actually had a problem with the program, that would be different. You could post it in here, and we'd try to help you. Why would we do this for free? Because we want to. We all trade services in here. Sometimes I'll know the answer to AlonsoN's problem, sometimes he'll know the answer to mine. There's no point in nobody helping just because of money reasons. JRiver has looked into alternatives for tech support and they've decided this is best. I and many others here agree. Yes, they could pay somebody to answer the phone to answer your questions, but then they'd have to pass that cost on to the customer and now that 24.95 that you're lamenting become 29.95 or 34.95. And for that extra money you get one person who may know the answer to your question. This way you get hundreds and it doesn't cost you anything extra.

[nila]

Daniel,
If your having problems downloading via the website then use an ftp client and login to their servers.
I'm not sure if you know how to use an ftp client or not but if you do then the details you want are:
IP: ftp.jriver.com
User Name and password leave blank
go into the: pub/downloads/music/
directory and it's v8 in there.

Otherwise just try the web download again.

v8 is almost fully bug free and the reason you haven't had a reply from the staff yet is because they are all working their asses off trying to fix all the bug's we've been reporting in v8 before they release it as a final build.
Within a day or two of a bug being posted on here it is being fixed usually and I know for a fact that no other company is offering you that.

Post your bug and it'll be fixed. Download your copy of 8 and your gonna be happy

[Ilmar]

Hi

As someone who worked in tech support and manned telephones (hey! without a script) for a major PC company in New Jersey that went bust, I do take a little exception to some of my friends' comments above. I aint green fingered - I kill any plant I try to nurture past puberty, but I can make PC's sing .

Fact is, in the UK, I arranged to continue receiving (worldwide) tech support queries  from the companies website for over six months and sorting customers problems(unpaid)with over a 90% success rate. Sure I still got ppl having a go at me for the fate of the company I worked for, some had a go at me personally, couldn't focus on the problem, these made up the other 10%.

Confession - I sometimes wrote scripts! This is much better!

Ilmar

[mphorton]

Ilmar

What company? Any of those that I mentioned? I still have countless support issues that they (and some others) couldn't resolve that I'd like to take up with you . . .