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[asio kid]

Even trying to play a movie, whether from hard drive or original DVD, was frustrating. The movie DVD has a title page, with several selections for additional materials. But getting to that title page, which comes up first on a regular DVD player, is murder with Media Center.

1. How do you do it quickly and easily?

2. Where exactly are there any help pages or instructions about this?

[NickF]

After you click play, right click and choose DVD Menu.  That will give you the same menu you see on your DVD player.

Nick.

[Jong]

It is very odd that MC does not have a standard keystroke assigned that brings up the DVD menu. I understand that the MCE remote doesn't have such a button, but there are plenty of people using Harmonys or other remotes that do.

I know it is possible to create a user defined keystroke to overcome this and that is what I have done. It wotks fine. But most users will struggle with that and there are plenty of keys on the keyboard going spare that could be assigned by default.

[Mr ChriZ]

I use the JRiver remote and it has a DVD Menu button that works fine

[Jong]

That sounds good. So why isnt there a standard keyboard assignment for everyone else?

Yes, I know there is the right click menu and also the OSD, but both of those are A LOT less friendly than pressing the menu button on a remote.

[rick.ca]

Program a key with the Core Command MC17.exe /MCC 10033, 0. Or assign that to a Keyboard Shortcut and the shortcut to a remote key.

[Jong]

As I said, I've already set up a user defined key and it works well. I just find it really surprising that everyone has to jump through this hoop just to get a DVD menu key (unless, iot appears, they use the JRiver remote). I'm not trying to be a pain, it is just there are plenty of keys on a keyboard. It would be one less support hassle if ke4ys were assinged for all basic things on a standalone remote. This should inlcuded "next subtitle stream" and "next audio stream", which currently also need a user defined key assignment.

[Jong]

FWIW, this is what I have put in my resource.xml file (in the \Data\Custom Resources folder):

Code: [Select]

   <Entry Key="Ctrl;M" Command="10033" Text="DVD Menu" Param="0" Global="1" />
    <Entry Key="Ctrl;S" Command="10052" Text="Next Subtitle" Param="-1" Global="1" />
    <Entry Key="Ctrl;A" Command="10053" Text="Next Language" Param="-1" Global="1" />
(the subtitle and audio stream codes were added recently in response to a support request and havent made it into the Wiki yet I think).

[JimH]

Try using the arrow keys on your keyboard to change settings.  Once you adapt, it's very quick.

[Jong]

Jim, sorry I really disagree on this one. If your remote has buttons for all these things why go through a prolonged exercise with the OSD? And why not just make some default keyboard assignments for those who want them. They do no harm at all for those who don't.

(on the other hand, full marks to JRiver for allowing custom keyboard assignments!   )

[NickF]

I agree that this should be out of the box but if you feel like it, you could program a button to give you DVD Menu - look at MCC Core Commands no. 10033.  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Center_Core_Commands#Playback

It is easily issued with MC17.exe /MCC 10033, 0

Nick.

[rick.ca]

It is very odd that MC does not have a standard keystroke assigned that brings up the DVD menu.

If it seems you're not being listened to, it might be some of us are confused by this idea. We haven't used goofy DVD menus since the day of the shiny disc.

It would be much more useful if there were a UI for assigning available commands to shortcuts—like most other programs have.

[Jong]

Oh, come on! Yes, we all jump straight to the movie much of the time, but there are still extras on DVD and Bluray that are sometimes worth watching. And sometimes people do wish to switch between audio/subtitle streams. These are not unreasonable requests! Of course this may not be relevant if people are just downloading movies. 

[rick.ca]

Oh, come on!

I meant what I said. I don't like DVD menus. They're clumsy and inconsistent, even if I had a use for them. I prefer to save the movie only, and if there is an extra worth keeping, it goes in separate file. But that's just my personal preference, and has nothing to do with the point I was making. I was addressing your comment...

It is very odd that MC does not have a standard keystroke assigned that brings up the DVD menu.

It's not at all odd. Odd would be the assumption all or even a majority of users have need of such a standard when all have the ability to make custom assignments. I agree the manner in which that is done may seem like 'jumping through hoops'. Surely just about everyone has some need for custom assignments, and those who haven't figured out how it's done are probably suffering from less effective ways of doing things. The answer is not to add 'standard' assignment for everything imaginable. A simpler and more effective solution is to provide a UI that would allow users to easily maintain whatever assignments they need.

I suppose the fact there are already 172 standard assignments might be a reason why there's not already a UI—it may be considered too overwhelming for some users. But that's why I think it would be helpful. With so many commands, it's difficult to make assignments while avoiding conflicts.

[Sandy B Ridge]

Oh, come on! Yes, we all jump straight to the movie much of the time, but there are still extras on DVD and Bluray that are sometimes worth watching. And sometimes people do wish to switch between audio/subtitle streams. These are not unreasonable requests! Of course this may not be relevant if people are just downloading movies. 

Completely agree.

[NickF]

I don't want to get into an argument here.  I can see both points of view.  I have a huge number of DVDs ripped to Video_TS folders and even some .iso rips.  I even, just occasionally, insert one of those shiny silver discs into the slot in the front of my PC.  All of these forms benefit from easy access to DVD Menu.  These days I always rip to .mkv files for which DVD Menu is irrelevant.

I understand Rick's point about the huge number of key assignments but someone thought that, of the 40 or so keys on the JRiver remote, there was justification in dedicating one to DVD Menu.  So I think that makes this an exception.

My thoughts.

Nick.

[Jong]

Rick and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.  

Rick, my emphatic response to your first post, was because you seemed (indeed still seem) to be saying that DVD and Blu-ray disc formats are esoteric/legacy formats barely worth supporting. Fact is they are still the main way most people watch movies at home and MC supports both, ripped and in original disc format, and supports a menu for both. If just about every stand-alone player out there thinks it sensible to offer a fast way to the core features of these discs (and, by the way, every other software player that I know of) IMHO, it is sensible that MC does too. The fact that there are so many keyboard shortcuts already only makes it stranger that these are missing!

But I doubt we will agree and I can't think of any more ways of putting it, so I'll stop now  

[rick.ca]

Rick and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I didn't say DVD menus are not worth supporting. I said they're already supported in an appropriate manner. I also suggested a feature that would provide better and equal support for whatever shortcut may be needed.

Your argument anyone is put out because one of many possible shortcuts is not included in the standard configuration is as silly as suggesting some field must be added to the defaults provided. If you want a new field, add it. If you want a new shortcut, add it.

[NickF]

If you want a new field, add it. If you want a new shortcut, add it.

I guess it takes a little while to get into the MC mindset!  I'm still getting there myself.  The potential and flexibility is enormous. 

Nick.

[rick.ca]

I guess it takes a little while to get into the MC mindset!

It's easy. "If it seems I can't do something, I must be wrong." A simple corollary of the most useful mindset of all: "I know nothing."

[Jong]

Ok, not agree, just disagree then  

As I said, way back (and posted the 'code'), I personally added shortcuts for all 3. It is not hard for the tech savvie I agree, but IMO WAY too hard for the average user, for whom the "shiny disc" is still the most popular way of consuming movies. And, again, if just about every other DVD player, hard and soft, offers a simple key assignment for this (do you know one that doesnt?) MC should to. The DVD menu especially is not the obscure rarely used feature you seem to think it is. If all key assignments that were used equally or less often than that by the average user were removed we really would be down to a handful. You obviously would not be bothered by that. I am sure most regulars here could cope. But is it sensible?!

But the arguments have been put, let others decide who's is most cogent!

[rick.ca]

But the arguments have been put, let others decide who's is most cogent!

No way! If we let those who think they know anything make decisions, it won't be long before they turn MC into a DVD player.

[NickF]

I think one of the strongest arguments for moving away from the DVD image model to .mkv or equivalent file based model is the ability to use madVR and RedOctober HQ.  When I last checked, DVD's only work with LAV.  Once you are using files, DVD Menu isn't relevant.

Trouble is it takes a while to convert but I'm getting there slowly.  Anything new goes straight to .mkv.

Nick

[Jong]

But Nick, blu-ray playback supports menus too and the same command brings them up. MC ones are pretty bare bones right now, but still. I'm not trying to persuade any one who want to rip to mkv or equivalent not to. But adding a default key assignment to the existing command definition in the default resource.xml file would take a couple of minutes and would do no one any harm whatsoever, unless they simply cannot help randomly bashing the keys on their keyboard whilst watching a movie!

[Sandy B Ridge]

I think one of the strongest arguments for moving away from the DVD image model to .mkv or equivalent file based model is the ability to use madVR and RedOctober HQ.  When I last checked, DVD's only work with LAV.  Once you are using files, DVD Menu isn't relevant.

Trouble is it takes a while to convert but I'm getting there slowly.  Anything new goes straight to .mkv.

Nick

Call me traditional if you like, but I want to keep my media as true to original as possible and retain functionality. I don't want lots of files in my library for all the snippets of 'extras' for each disc which would be likely scattered across the HD if you rip them separately.

I was hoping that the particles feature would solve this and be able to watch the main feature with MadVR, but I've been unable to make it work reliably.

LAVs changelog/todo list had DVD Menu Support as started by nevcairiel a few months back, but I guess it proved too difficult.

SBR

[Jong]

Java menus will be a long time coming, maybe even never! But HDMV menus are already in beta for XBMC, which of  course is open source, so I am hopeful they will become widespread in the not too distant future. This is significant because Slysoft speedmenus convert Java menus to HDMV "on the fly". At some point MC may be able to use those instead of/as an alternative to the original ones. They are still not perfect (not least no descriptions for the various titles!) but they are evolving too. We may get there in the end.