INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Organizing My Media  (Read 38431 times)

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Organizing My Media
« on: February 14, 2013, 09:23:14 am »

I really want to buy and use this software, because it plays music in it's native resolution and it looks nice.  But, I'll be darn if I can see how the organizational techniques used in Media Center "organize" anything.  

I have a vast music collection on my hard drives and I can play anything requested within seconds.  It's well organized.  I imported all my music into Media Center and it took me 15 minutes just to locate a Beethoven file.  In fact, there were no references to Beethoven at all, only references to the orchestra or conductor.  

It (Media Center) found a JayZ reference (JayZ doing something on a Linkin Park album) in my Linkin Park folder, and made a completely separate album art icon for this one file.  This happens over and over .  I have artist references and album art to artists I don't even know (who is Wendy Carlos).  

On the other hand, Media Center organized my Led Zeppelin collection perfectly.  It created a Led Zeppelin album art icon, and when I click on that icon all of my Zeppelin stuff is there.   Isn't there some way to point Media Center to my hard drive and tell it to reference my collection exactly as I have it organized there?  I would be happy just to navigate through my collection from Windows, using Media Center to play them, but I want to set up a media server in my listening room that I can navigate via remote control on my big screen.

Can someone here give me some ideas on how to proceed?
Logged

tcman41

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 563
  • Sound Surfing!
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 09:35:32 am »

Not sure what you mean by references and album art icons, there are a million different ways to organize your media in JRiver.

My method is pretty common:

Artist folder > Album Folder > songs labeled artist-track name-track#, I embed all cover art inside of the song file via something like mp3tag.

I then use a common view in JRiver called panes with album thumbnails underneath.

Also you can use the little search bar in the upper right corner of MC18 to find files instantly.

also maybe look at the help section in MC18 or go to the wiki page for more info.

The view and organization you want to setup is only going to be as good as your tags, pay attention to things like the differences between artist tags and album artist tags, etc.

hope something helps

my screenies:


Logged

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2013, 11:27:48 am »

I really want to buy and use this software, because it plays music in it's native resolution and it looks nice.  But, I'll be darn if I can see how the organizational techniques used in Media Center "organize" anything.  

I have a vast music collection on my hard drives and I can play anything requested within seconds.  It's well organized.  I imported all my music into Media Center and it took me 15 minutes just to locate a Beethoven file.  In fact, there were no references to Beethoven at all, only references to the orchestra or conductor.  
Since you did not mention how exactly you previously could play anything requested within seconds, and you mentioned that it is well organized, I am going to guess that you mean you have your music organized by folder and filename.

Over the past 10 years, digital music has been moving towards organizing by data stored in the files called Tags.

This is all due to iPods, and the desire to play individual tracks entirely separately from their album of release.  So, each file has to have its information internally, not determined by which folder it is found.

Note that CDs are 75 minutes, because the President of Sony ordered that it be big enough to contain Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.

I'm pretty sure that the iPod plays individual tracks, because Steve Jobs was from a demographic group of people who wanted to hear "hits" (the one good pop song from an otherwise mediocre album).

Since nowadays less than 5% of the public plays classical music, that trend has continued.

Media Center has views oriented towards the 95%, which is why Led Zeppelin is easily found, and Beethoven is not.

Go to Search above, click Advanced, click "... in Titles" and search for Classical Music to get some ideas on how to add Views for Classical Music.

PS  And I would be willing to bet that if you go back in your time machine and prevent Wendy Carlos from being born, then when you return to 2013, you would find that in the new alternate universe you had created, the President of Sony was not interested in Classical Music in the late 70's...

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2013, 11:34:58 am »

This is all due to iPods, and the desire to play individual tracks entirely separately from their album of release.  So, each file has to have its information internally, not determined by which folder it is found.

Just a minor quibble: I've been using tagging based workflows since well before the iPod was a twinkle in Mr. Jobs's eye.

That certainly popularized it, and iTunes was probably the first time most people encountered a metadata management system, but it was common well before that, even for digital music.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2013, 11:47:19 am »

Examples of other "tagging" and "tag-based" systems (most of which MC uses):
EXIF
XMP
TIFF
XML
HTML

The main benefits that tagging provides over filesystem-based metadata management are:

1. Tags are contextual.  You can tell without knowing about the "folder structure" ahead of time that "The Beatles" is an Artist, and "The Dark Side of the Moon" is an Album title, because the tag contains the context.  This also allows for far more flexible searching (as you can search for specific results, like [Artist]=="Pink Floyd" but [Album]!="The Final Cut", because that album stinks.)

2. Tags are far more flexible.  A single file can be in multiple "folders" simultaneously without creating filesystem duplicates (and complex structures with symlinks and whatnot).  So, for example, you can apply multiple Genres to a single track or album.  Or multiple keywords to a photo, and that item will show up in both "folders".

3. Tags allow for content aggregation.  It doesn't matter which physical disk my content is located on, or even if it is "local".  They all show in the same database, and are all searchable.

If you ALREADY have a structured filesystem-based metadata system (folder and filename structures), this is VERY simple to import into MC.  It probably parsed some things already, but you can import all of this metadata via the Fill Properties from Filename tool (right click on some files in MC, select Library Tools > Fill Properties from Filename).
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2013, 02:55:28 pm »

Thank you guys.  glynor, your last post looks like it may be the answer to my problem, if I can just understand how to configure the "Directories" and the "filenames" fields to reflect the structure of my collection.  In Windows, I have a series of folders starting with ABBA and ending with ZZ TOP.  They are listed alphabetically.  Inside each folder resides the albums by that artist.  Inside each album folder is the individual tracks of that album. Of course, with classical composers, the folder contains albums by various artists (orchestras) and conductors, all performing the works of that specific composer.  All in all it's a very basic structure.  If I want to hear the live version of Allman Brothers "Whipping Post", I just double click Allman Brothers > Live at Fillmore East > Whipping Post.  How do I get MC to get rid of everything it has already imported and re-import all my audio files using the structure I described? 
Logged

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2013, 03:13:51 pm »

What I am hoping to do is to navigate, in Theater View, through my collection in the same way it is arranged in Windows.  Artist > Albums > Tracks, without changing that structure at all.  No "unknown artist" or "unassigned", or any other ambiguous terms,  unless those terms exist in my files. 
Logged

csimon

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1686
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2013, 05:14:51 pm »

You could create a custom view in Theater View with 2 categories - Artist and Album - but instead of defining these in the view as Library Fields, define them as an expression instead. You can then use the Filename fields in the expressions to extract the artist and album from the directory path of the physical file. I'm not expert enough in the expression language to give you an instant solution and I can foresee that it might be tricky if the folder depth is not consistent and varies from album to album, but this is a way that you can ignore the file tags and browse by the folder structure instead.
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2013, 05:29:08 pm »

but this is a way that you can ignore the file tags and browse by the folder structure instead.

There's an easier way than that, but then you're missing out on much of the power of MC.  It would be better to fill the tags, and should be relatively painless.

DanoRoo, can you post some examples of the exact pathnames (from the drive letter on to the extension) for some different examples from your library?  If you have more than one "scheme" that you use, give a few (or all) of them to me.

I'll post some tutorial-like stuff later tonight or tomorrow.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

sla

  • Junior Woodchuck
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2013, 06:09:55 pm »

- Yes you need to move from folders to Tags.

JRiver can import the data from the name of directories and the name of the file to tags.

For instance I have my music organized like this:
Directory: Artist - Year - Album
File: Track# - Artist - Song Title.

You can try to do "Fill Properties from Filename" option and in my case I do "Manual":
Directories: [Artist] - [Year] - [Album]
Filename: [Track #] - [Artist] - [Name]

I am not sure how one can run this automatically for the whole library - but I am new here so maybe some other people can help.

[there is a "Automatic" setting there so maybe that is how your library got organized]

There is also fantastic tagging program Mp3Tag [tags mp3, flac,...] which allows batch writing to tags from file names, also it can look-up automatically data from online databases (freedb,amazon,...)
Logged
JRiver on Silent/Fanless STREACOM FC5 EVO -> DSD through Firewire on Mytek 192 DSD -> CODA 05r pre/CODA 10.5 amp -> Sonics Amerigo Speakers

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2013, 10:20:01 pm »

When I want to hear songs on Alison Krauss, Paper Airplane album I go here:
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]

When I want to hear Beethoven's Piano Sonata #12 in A Flat, Op 26-1 I go here:
F:\Music\Beethoven\Beethoven - Complete Piano Sonatas - Eric Heidsieck\CD 4

When I want to hear Big Bad Girl on HD Tracks Sampler I go here:
F:\Music\Reference - HDTracks Sampler

If I want to hear Deacon Blues by Steely Dan, I go here:
F:\Music\Steely Dan\1977 - Aja [MFSL UDCD 515] (FLAC)

I appreciate the assistance.
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 10:33:41 pm »

No problem.

It would help to have some actual file name examples too, for each of those.  I assume the filename encodes the track # and the track title somehow, if not other information.

It would help to make my demonstration more applicable, though if you don't reply back soon, I'll just proceed and make up examples.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 10:41:46 pm »

I don't understand what you mean by file name examples.  How do I provide you with that information?
Logged

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2013, 10:43:43 pm »

If I click on the individual files (songs) in each album folder it does not include it in the path.  Is that what you mean?
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2013, 10:57:31 pm »

I don't understand what you mean by file name examples.  How do I provide you with that information?

The names of the actual files on disk inside those example folders you gave me above.

Like this:
Filename   
M:\Audio\Music\P\Pink Floyd\Meddle (MFSL Version)\01 - One Of These Days.flac
M:\Audio\Music\P\Pink Floyd\Meddle (MFSL Version)\02 - A Pillow Of Winds.flac
M:\Audio\Music\P\Pink Floyd\Meddle (MFSL Version)\03 - Fearless.flac
M:\Audio\Music\P\Pink Floyd\Meddle (MFSL Version)\04 - San Tropez.flac
M:\Audio\Music\P\Pink Floyd\Meddle (MFSL Version)\05 - Seamus.flac
M:\Audio\Music\P\Pink Floyd\Meddle (MFSL Version)\06 - Echoes.flac


(but your version).

I just need some examples, not necessarily every file in each album.

Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

crisnee

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 11:22:48 pm »

I think you can use MC in a Windows file folder mode (so to speak). Choose File on the left hand side then keep click on the little arrow for the drive you're interested in and then the various folders. It's basically Windows in MC. From there you can look into using the left side of the screen to set up this thing better or to enter tags and eventually use MC to fuller potential. But this should be very similar to what you are doing without MC (if I understand you correctly).

Chris
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2013, 12:34:15 am »

Okay, to take your first example...

F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\

I'm going to assume that the files are in flac format (though this doesn't matter), and are named something like this:

F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\1 - Paper Airplane.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\2 - Dust Bowl Children.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\3 - Lie Awake.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\4 - Lay My Burden Down.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\5 - My Love Follows You Where You Go.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\6 - Dimming Of The Day.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\7 - On The Outside Looking In.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\8 - Miles To Go.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\9 - Sinking Stone.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\10 - Bonita And Bill Butler.flac
F:\Music\Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]\11 - My Opening Farewell.flac


If not, and you have further questions after this, post some full example filenames and I'll try to get back to you.

First you need to make a view you can work with the way you're used to the files.  This isn't difficult.  There is already one there that will mostly work, and can serve as a template.

Prelude: Setting Up Auto-Import

I'm assuming you've already imported a bunch of files.  I don't know how you did this, but it works best if you use Auto-Import.  If you didn't do this before, you might want to do it instead.  That might make this task much easier, because Auto-Import does some magic to automatically recognize some tags and filenames that you might not have benefited from if you didn't use this system (if you imported them via Tools > Import > Import Single Folder, Drag-Drop, or File > Library > Import, for example).

If you need to start over, the easiest thing (since you're a brand new user) will be to just reset your Library to the defaults.

To configure Auto-Import to import your files:

1. Go to:  Tools > Import and then choose Configure Auto-Import from the dialog that appears.
2. Click the Add button on the right hand side of the dialog that appears to add a new folder.
3. Click the Browse button in the Folder Settings dialog, and find your F:\Music\ folder and pick it.
4. If you only have music in there, you can uncheck the file types other than Audio (just untick Image and Video).
5. Keep the Ignore special files option enabled, and click OK to include it the folder.
6. Repeat steps 2-5 for any additional places where you store media on your computer.
7. Down at the bottom, under the Folders list, there are some options in the Tasks area...
8. Later, you can decide what you want to do, but the current settings should be adequate (and safe) to start you off.
9. Click Finish.

MC will scan your hard drive and import all the music it finds.

Setup a Basic Tagging View

Others will probably chime in (and you can search the forum for tips), but I'm just going to try to get you something basic you can use by default.  We'll start with a default Library.

On the left hand side in the Tree, choose Audio and then Files.

This will show all of the audio files in your Library, organized by folder.  There is also a pane for File Type.  This is probably, right now, actually pretty close to what you're used-to.  At the top, under Location, you can expand the "folder tree" as it is on your hard drive (click on the arrow next to F:), and see all of the files within in the list below.  The nice thing is, you'll notice, that all of the files show that are within each folder as you expand and select it.  It "narrows down" the choices, but shows all of the files "below" the current one.  You can also hold down the control key, and select multiple folders individually, and then the file listing will show the contents of those folders (and their subfolders) but not the ones that aren't highlighted.

This will become important later.  For now, we're going to add a few more panes:

1. Right click somewhere up near the label File Type up top (on the header of the File Type pane) and choose Add Category to Right.
2. In the dialog that appears, choose Artist, and then click Okay.
3. This will create a new Pane, to the right of the File Type one, for Artists.
4. Do steps 2-3 for Album and Disc # too, each time adding them all the way to the right.
5. Lastly, we don't really need the File Type pane for now, so remove it.  Right click on the File Type pane header again, and choose Remove this Category.  If you have plenty of room on your monitor, you can leave that there (it won't hurt anything).

Now, you'll have a view that looks something like this:


click to embiggen.


Hopefully you have some useful metadata showing under Artist, Album, and Disc #, but if not, that's fine, I'll show you how to get sorted.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2013, 12:34:30 am »

Using Fill Properties from Filename

So, first, I'm going to use the example of the Allison Krauss album.

In the better Files view we just made:
1. Open up F: under the Location pane and then the Music folder.
2. Then find the "Alison Krauss & Union Station - Paper Airplane [24-96]" folder and select it.
3. This will show the files inside the folder in the list below.  Select them all (click down there on one of them and hit Control-A to select all).
4. Right click and choose Library Tools > Fill Properties from Filename.
5. In the dialog that appears, Template should be pre-selected.  If it isn't, pick Template instead of Automatic.
6. A note:  Automatic would have already been done on the files when you imported them, if you used Auto-Import.
7. Check the box for Directories, and type this in the box (just like this, with the dash and the brackets):
[Artist] - [Album] [24-96]
8. As you enter this, on the right side of the dialog (which is re-sizable if you need it), MC will show you how it is going to apply the tags if you hit OK now.  Right now, for each track, it should list:
Artist: Alison Krauss & Union Station
Album: Paper Airplane

See how I put the [24-96] in the text I had you use up above?  Basically the way the template system works is you use the file or folder name as-is, and you insert [Artist] for where you want it to extract the Artist name, and [Album] for where you want it to extract the Album title.  Anything else you enter is used "literally" as separators (and is ignored).  The " - " in your folder name will serve as the separator between the [Artist] and [Album] "tags".  The tags are all denoted using that same style [] around the tag's name.

Since I included the [24-96] part in the Directory template text, that part is "skipped".  If you wanted to include that part in the "Album title", you could just use this in the Directories box instead:
[Artist] - [Album]

9. Next, check the Filename box (if it isn't already).
10. In the Filename box put something like (this uses the examples I gave above):
[Track #] - [Name]

11. Now, the right-hand side should say (in addition to what it said before, using track 2 as the example):
Name: Dust Bowl Children
Track #: 2
Some or all of these might be labeled with [same as existing value].  This just means that when you apply the changes, nothing will be changed from the current tags for that item.

You can use the examples at the right (inspect them before you hit OK if you aren't sure what you are doing) to help you design your template.  It'll show you the "preview results" right there as you go.

Here's an example from my Library, with a bunch of fields properly filled in (they were all already properly tagged, so they all say "same as existing value"):


click to embiggen.


12. When you get it right, or as close as you can, click OK.

This will close the dialog and those files will all now be tagged properly.

Now, that just did that one folder.  The beauty is, that if you have other folders (hopefully LOTS of them) that have similar or identical "file naming schemes", you can select ALL of those files at once (like I said above, you can hold down the control key and select multiple folders under the Location pane), select all of those files, and then do the whole operation in one fell swoop.

It is always good (essential) to try a few out first as a test before you do a whole bunch.

I can't give you examples for your Track names, because I don't know the filenaming scheme you use, but here's what would work for your other example folders in the Directories template box:

F:\Music\Beethoven\Beethoven - Complete Piano Sonatas - Eric Heidsieck\CD 4

[Artist]\[Artist] - [Album]\CD [Disc #]

Notice, you can apply tags twice if they're duplicated.  You'd have gotten the same results by using:
[Artist]\Beethoven - [Album]\CD [Disc #]

Now, that's going to give you this as the Album title: Complete Piano Sonatas - Eric Heidsieck

For just that one album, but assuming you have other albums that use a similar naming pattern, it'll work better to be less specific.  The tag "kept" is the one "further to the right" (I believe).

Another important point about that example, if you left off the "\CD [Disc #]" part, it wouldn't work at all.  The reason is that the Directories template system works from "right to left" across the directories.  That's why you don't have to put the F:\Music\ part in there, because the template never "gets that far".  However, if you left off the "\CD [Disc #] part, then your example folder would end up parsing something like:
Album: CD 4
Artist: Beethoven - Complete Piano Sonatas - Eric Heidsieck

And the initial "Beethoven" folder will have been ignored (because the template didn't "contain" enough folders).

Okay, so the basics are done.  But maybe you don't want that.  Eric Heidsieck is a pianist, so I assume he is playing the sonatas, so perhaps you want to capture that tag as well.  Fine, then use this:
[Artist]\[Artist] - [Album] - [Soloist]\CD [Disc #]

Since those things are nicely separated by dashes, they'll show up just fine.  Then, each of those files will also have a [Soloist] tag filled with "Eric Heidsieck".  Later on, when you make "browsing views" (similar to how we made this Tagging view) you can add a Soloist category pane, and then browse all of the soloists you have in your collection, independent of what particular piece of music they were playing, or who the composer was...

Or, perhaps instead you want to capture Beethoven as the [Composer] (another built-in tag) and use Eric Heidsieck as the [Artist].  That's fine.  In that case, use:
[Composer]\[Composer] - [Album] - [Artist]\CD [Disc #]

Hopefully this is becoming more clear.  Play around with the preview, and browse through the available tags.  You can see the full listing right within MC under Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields.

Here are some final example Directories templates for the other folder names you provided:

F:\Music\Reference - HDTracks Sampler

[Genre] - [Album]
or maybe
[Artist] - [Album]

F:\Music\Steely Dan\1977 - Aja [MFSL UDCD 515] (FLAC)

[Artist]\[Year] - [Album] (FLAC)
or maybe
[Artist]\[Year] - [Album]
or even
[Artist]\[Year] - [Album] [[Comment]] (FLAC)

One thing about this last one...  If you have a bunch of folder names that are similar, but contain a bunch of "extra junk" at the end, it is usually best to just include it in the tag, so that you can do a bigger batch of files at once.  Later on, you can even do much the same thing as this "filename parsing system" to copy and extract information out of other tags (that's a much more advanced topic, but it can be done).  So, if you leave that extra stuff in there for now (or put it in the [Comment] tag, which is what I prefer to do when possible), you can come back to it later and not have to type things by hand.

Then, after you are done, you can easily clean up that tag by selecting all of the files, and editing it once in the Tag Action Window.  MC also has a powerful Tag Find and Replace tool (which can help clean up poorly formatted tags immensely) under Library Tools > Find and Replace.

Lastly, I should mention... In that first, Allison Krauss example, I intentionally excluded the [24-96] part to make another point.  You don't need to include this tag manually, because MC already knows that they are 24/96 files.  When you import files into MC, it analyzes them and fills many tags (including technical details about the files) automatically.  The [Bitrate], [Bit Depth], and [Sample Rate] are all certainly included (along with [File Size] and [File Type] and [Date Created] and all sorts of other things.

You don't need to include that as part of the Album title, because MC already knows (and can show and you can add panes for if you want) the Sample Rate and Bit Depth of ALL of your files.

I hope this helps.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 12:40:42 am »

Once you get this done, you can go about setting up some flexible views that let you use and browse all of this metadata gold you've collected out of your files and filenames.

We can help with that too, though search around in the forums and the wiki for information on Customizing Views.  Play with it a bit.  You can always clear your Library if you get lost, and you need to... (though don't do this in a panic without asking because you'll lose all of your work!)

The last tip is that while you're playing around, you may want to turn off MC's tagging of files on changes.  Do this under:
Tools > Options > General > Importing & Tagging > Update tags when file info changes.

When this option is disabled, then MC just stores the information it collects in its own Database (called the Library) and doesn't save it back to the files.  Later on, you should apply the tags to your files once you get them sorted out the way you want to, but for now while you're learning, maybe turn that off for a bit.

When you do have to do something "manually" to get the information in, it is good to use a "big groups to little" approach.  You can make your batches smaller and smaller as you go as well, repeating the process with smaller sub-sets of files to get even more specific data out of them.

So, for example, if you are ever "tagging manually" a bunch of new imports or whatever.  Don't type the same [Artist] name over and over and do one album at a time.  Select all of the tracks by Sonic Youth (even the ones that already say something, right or wrong, in the [Artist] tag), and type it in once (it'll even autocomplete as you type for you if there is something matching in your Library already).  Then start selecting individual albums, but do the whole album at a time.  Then, if needed, add in [Disc #].

Never retype when you could have selected a bigger batch.  Never type in the first place, if you can pull the information from somewhere else (the filename, the existing tags, or another field).

Hopefully the stuff above gives you (and maybe someone else) a primer on all the ways MC makes getting the information out of your files, and into usable, flexible, functional tags as easily as is possible without making you type things by hand.  Everything can be applied in batches.  And almost everything can be automated or "queried" with a little elbow grease.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

csimon

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1686
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2013, 03:24:51 am »

 ;D

Give that man a beer!  Or something.
Logged

struct

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 03:39:00 am »


Once you get the basics into the tags, you may want to consider running your music through MusicBrainz Picard (perhaps with the lastfm+ plugin) to populate a whole lot more information. Should be largely automatic and you don't have to rename the files, thus you are no worse off if you don't like what it does to the tags, i.e. simply rerun the instructions above.

craig
Logged

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 07:45:05 am »

I SEE THE LIGHT!  ;D  Thank you glynor.   Whatever they're paying you, it isn't enough.
Logged

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2013, 08:12:52 am »

Sorry.  I do have one more question.  In the Beethoven example, the first filename in CD1 is: Piano Sonata No. 2 in A, Op.2, no2 - I

What would be the appropriate tags for the filename?  It isn't the artist, nor is it the album.  Looking down the list of tags, I don't see one that is appropriate.
I also want to mention that when I imported my files into MC, I did exactly as you suggested in your tutorial.  Tools > Configure Auto-Import, then I pointed MC to my files, but before I began importing, I checked the "Analyze Audio" and the "Write file tags when analyzing audio, getting cover art, and applying folder-based tags" boxes.  But, MC only processed about half the files, then stopped.  All my files are in MC's library, so I'm assuming it must the the analyzing process that got hung up.  I tried to start the process again, but it would not process the remaining 4 or 5 thousand files. 
Logged

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 72442
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 08:17:34 am »

I SEE THE LIGHT!  ;D  Thank you glynor.   Whatever they're paying you, it isn't enough.
glynor, unfortunately, isn't paid by JRiver.  He gives his time freely.

Along with many others here, glynor helps people like you because of his passion for all things digital and a genuine interest in his fellow beings.  And he has a voracious appetite.
Logged

kurushi

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 09:32:49 am »

Not sure what you mean by references and album art icons, there are a million different ways to organize your media in JRiver.

My method is pretty common:

Artist folder > Album Folder > songs labeled artist-track name-track#, I embed all cover art inside of the song file via something like mp3tag.

no need to mp3 tag MC is good for this too in fact it's good for all ^^
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2013, 09:36:49 am »

Sorry.  I do have one more question.  In the Beethoven example, the first filename in CD1 is: Piano Sonata No. 2 in A, Op.2, no2 - I

What would be the appropriate tags for the filename?  It isn't the artist, nor is it the album.  Looking down the list of tags, I don't see one that is appropriate.
I also want to mention that when I imported my files into MC, I did exactly as you suggested in your tutorial.  Tools > Configure Auto-Import, then I pointed MC to my files, but before I began importing, I checked the "Analyze Audio" and the "Write file tags when analyzing audio, getting cover art, and applying folder-based tags" boxes.  But, MC only processed about half the files, then stopped.  All my files are in MC's library, so I'm assuming it must the the analyzing process that got hung up.  I tried to start the process again, but it would not process the remaining 4 or 5 thousand files.  

I'm pretty busy today (only have a few minutes right now while I wait for some video to render on my other workstation), but I have time for a few little things, relatively briefly...

If it were me, I'd just use [Name] to capture that.  A question, though... The track number isn't in the filename anywhere?  I hope so, or they're all going to be out of order, and you'll have to adjust the [Track #] manually.  If so, I can teach you a trick with Playlists (below).  Perhaps the no2 - I is part of this?  I don't know enough about classical cataloging to comment intelligently.

Again, hopefully you just omitted whatever part of the filename would cause the tracks to sort in-order (the [Track #] part), because that's important.  You DO NOT have to worry so much about "extracting" the [Track #] field from the filenames, though, because as long as you can make it "view" them in order somehow (by sorting by Filename or some other field), you can then select the tracks in MC, right click and choose: Library Tools > Fill Track Numbers from List Order.

This will add Track numbers to each file you have selected, counting up from 1, in whatever order you happen to be viewing the files on screen at that particular moment.  A handy tip is if you ever need to do it "manually", just make a new blank "normal" Playlist and add the files to the list.  Then, click and drag them up and down until they're in the right order, and then right-click and do the Fill Track Numbers command.  Afterwards, you don't need the playlist anymore and you can delete it.  I do this occasionally for things where the Track Numbers are difficult or impossible to get.  Pull up Amazon or Wikipedia in a tab with the album track listing up, and just match the order by name by clicking and dragging, then "apply" it with the "fill track numbers" thingy.

You can add your own fields, if the default ones aren't good enough.  That same place in Options where you could look at all of the pre-defined tags?  You can use to define your own custom ones.  So, maybe you want an [Opus] tag that's an Integer field?  Sure, make one.  Easy-peasy.


click to embiggen.


The pre-defined ones are nice because they're "standards compliant" and you'll have to do less work defining custom views.  So, in my case (for this reason), I'd use "Beethoven, Ludwig Van" as my [Artist] tag, simply because that's how I'm most likely to want to "browse" for those files, and if it is grouped in with Beyonce and Aphex Twin (obviously separated by [Genre]), I want to just be able to browse my artists list and not have to make a special Classical genre view.

But, I don't have a massive Classical collection.  Someone who meticulously collects dozens of different versions of Spem In Alium by Thomas Tallis might be much better served by making a few custom tags and a "special" Classical-only view to use for browsing them, and an [Opus] tag to make sorting them and searching them simpler.

So, if you wanted to use that same filename, and capture the Opus field that you just made?
[Name], Op.[Opus], [Comment]
The last part would capture the rest of the filename in the [Comment] field.

If you want to then, later fix the [Name] tag to match the whole thing again (as that will "break it up).  Just select the files in MC, open the Tag Action Window and edit the Name tag.  Then type:
=[Name], Op.[Opus], [Comment]

Or, you could just use:
=[Filename (name), 0]

Which inserts the full file's name, minus the extension (that's the ", 0" part).

Either of those would re-assemble the original filename back into the [Name] field using the fields you already have.  Using "=" at the beginning of editing a tag, works much like an Excel function, and allows you to do "operations" and "math" using the other fields and MC's powerful expression engine.

Or, you could just do "another pass" in the Fill Properties from Filename tool.  Open it up once and get the Opus tag and everything filled.  Then, open it again and use just [Name].  It doesn't overwrite any fields other than those you specify in the template.  Everything else is left alone, so you can do it "over and over" to the same files, to massage them into the shape you really want.

And lastly?

When you're all done and all of the files are "good" with beautiful tags and everything?

You can do the "reverse" of Fill Properties from Filename to "push" all of your tags back out to the filenames and folder names via the equally powerful Library Tools > Rename, Move, and Copy Files tool.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

nwboater

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1346
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2013, 09:41:44 am »

Tagging classical music can be easy or complicated. There are many schemes depending on how you want to view your files. You may find some useful information if you do a search on "tagging classical". One thread that will appear is this one  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=71829.0   that I started a while ago. There are many links in it with further information. Some of the responses were very helpful to me. With very little work I can now quite easily locate most any classical work I am looking for. And the search can be by multiple methods. That for me is a huge advantage to the MC database structure over organizing by folder.

Have fun!

Rod
Logged

glynor

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 19608
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2013, 09:45:25 am »

Also.... I don't know why MC got stuck importing your files.  It could be:

1. One badly corrupt file on disk (which won't play in anything anyway) that is causing it to "get stuck" on that file and be unable to continue.  Usually it figures these out and skips them, but occasionally it can hang MC up (or even make it crash) if there are badly hosed files in an imported directory.  Try to look at the "edge" of where it stopped, and see if any of the files look weird.

2. The audio analysis could be stuck, and in any case, it takes a long time and is CPU intensive.  I'd turn it off for now, and then just turn that on once you get everything set up.  The audio analysis is handy to have, but not necessary for the "early phases" of setting MC up.

3. Same goes for Build Thumbnails.  This can be pretty disk intensive and can make importing huge numbers of files very slow.  That's why I recommended the defaults.

4. The bottom option about applying tags, allows MC to write tags to the files automatically when it imports them (things like the audio analysis and whatnot).  That's fine (and that is absolutely turned on at my house), though, as I mentioned above, you might want to keep it off until you get everything set up.
Logged
"Some cultures are defined by their relationship to cheese."

Visit me on the Interweb Thingie: http://glynor.com/

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 72442
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2013, 09:54:55 am »

I added one thread to the wiki a while ago:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Classical_Music
Logged

DanoRoo

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2013, 11:37:05 am »

You guys are awesome!  Thank you so much.
Logged

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2013, 09:15:40 pm »

glynor wrote above:
" 5. Keep the Ignore special files option enabled "

and the wiki says:

" Ignore special files (folder.jpg, etc.) - You may not want to automatically import certain special files into your library. For example if you are using the folder.jpg concept of cover art for your audio files, you may not want to include these files. "

What the wiki says seems the opposite of what would make sense.

No Forum thread discusses this in a clear way.

Can someone explain "Ignore special files (folder.jpg, etc.)" ?

[This would be a good thread, because there is a big general discussion of importing and tags in it.]

MrC

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 10462
  • Your life is short. Give me your money.
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2013, 11:18:51 pm »

I think this came about when MC added Image support.  Typical case - users want to import their Images, but not Cover Art.  Cover Art is referenced indirectly by audio files, so there is generally no need to import.
Logged
The opinions I express represent my own folly.

csimon

  • Regular Member
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1686
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2013, 04:32:06 am »

Yes - this possibly happens if you are importing your top-level media directory for your images, which includes your audio directory. You don't want your cover art imported and indexed as separate images for your images library. Nor do you want that automatic image that Windows creates whenever you browse a folder of images - doesn't that get called folder.jpg too, I can't remember?

If you are setting up individual imports for specific audio/images/video directories and you haven't got multiple media types mixed up in them, then the Ignore Special Files option is probably irrelevant.
Logged

kstuart

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1955
  • Upgraded to MC22 Master using preorder discount
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2013, 02:59:57 pm »

That's clearer now.

I have to say that the Wiki entry is a classic example of "You have to already know and understand the answer, to even understand the wording of the explanation".

This is the tricky part of Technical Writing.   You have to be able to put yourself in the mind of someone who does not understand - in order to figure out how to explain it.

The Big Labinski

  • Regular Member
  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
  • Wake up and slow down
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2017, 03:22:28 pm »

Sorry to come up with this old topic.

Is it possible to accumulate twice the same field- like this?

This is the source "M:\Musik\Buckethead\01 - Worms For The Garden (Buckethead Pikes #26).flac"
The final result should be in the Album tag: Pikes #26 - Worms For The Garden

When I use Fill Properties from Filename - in filename:

ead [Album])
I get: Pikes #26

When I use: -[Album](
I get: Worms for the Garden

Both are fine and correct for me, but how to combine both phrases in one time to get: Pikes #26 - Worms For The Garden.

+&{} were not helpful to add both of them.

Any help is appreciated.

Logged
Wake up and slow down 😴

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 72442
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: Organizing My Media
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2023, 02:05:48 pm »

A post was split here and moved to MC29 for Windows.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136298.0.html
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up