Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JimH]

Today's build, 18.0.146, is the first to support the Ceton InfiniTV 4. 

[Edit -- Please use MC 18.0.180 or above.

It does not support channels that are encrypted.

Thanks to Yaobing for sticking with a difficult project.

For those who don't have a Ceton tuner, the significance of this is that it is a Cablecard tuner.  Cablecard is a standard, ordered by the FCC, that requires Set Top Box (STB) manufacturers to support hardware cards supplied by the cable company.  The cable companies haven't been happy about it, so it's not yet clear whether it will become an actual standard.

[babgvant]

Is the implementation specific to Ceton? Or will any DCT work?

[JimH]

Probably Ceton specific.

[Yaobing]

[EDIT] The instructions given below are old and contain some info that no longer applies.  I created a sticky thread which summarizes the new instructions.  Please refer to that thread.

This is Ceton InfiniTV specific support.  We only tested Ceton InfiniTV 4 PCIe device, but InfiniTV 4 USB should also work.

The device comes with setup instructions for Windows Media Center.  Make sure you have already done that, especially CableCARD pairing.

MC is a little slow to discover the device, along with other DLNA devices.  After you start MC, it may be a minute or two before the device is available.

Once the device has been discovered, you will see its four tuners under Devices in the Television Options window.  

Configuration:

Not much needs to be done, especially if your Ceton devices are installed as a local device.  If your tuners are installed as network devices, you can use the Configure button to select which tuner to use on a given PC.  For example, if you want PC 1 to use tuner 1, and PC 2 to use tuners 2, 3, 4, and PC 3 will not use any tuner, then you should do the following:

On PC 1, configure Tuner 1 so the Tuner Type is "OpenCable", and configure Tuners 2 - 4 so the Tuner Type is "Disabled".
On PC 2, configure Tuner 1 so the Tuner Type is "Disabled", and configure Tuners 2 - 4 so the Tuner Type is "OpenCable".
On PC 3, configure all 4 tuners so the Tuner Type is "Disabled".


You can scan for channels.  The first wizard page will contain check box "Scan for CableCARD channels".  It uses EPG data to load channels, so it may find more channels than your cable company allows.  You can delete them after the scan finishes.

If you have not previously turned on DLNA option in MC, you should turn it on.  Go to Tools > Options, and select Media Network.  Check the checkbox "Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA", and restart MC.

Other operations are just like other types of TV tuners.

[fitbrit]

Congratulations on another milestone, however premature at this stage.

[JimH]

Thanks.  Think of it as JRiver eye candy.

[babgvant]

This is Ceton InfiniTV specific support.  We only tested Ceton InfiniTV 4 PCIe device, but InfiniTV 4 USB should also work.

Did you use DRI?

[glynor]

Thanks.  Think of it as JRiver eye candy.

 

[glynor]

Sorry.  I don't have one.

IF (and this is a pretty big if) MC was able to support recording my HD channels (not including HBO, but including stuff like AMC and locals), I'd consider buying one.

[jmone]

Great addition.... but unfortunately there are no CAMS available in Australia to work with Cable providers as we have been effectively locked out of 3rd party soln like this.... we "must" use the PAY TV provided STB.

[Matt]

but InfiniTV 4 USB should also work

John is ordering the USB model and will test it next week.

[EricTheBlue]

This is BIG!    I have MC and a Ceton Infinity 4 already installed so I'll be happy to try test for you if you wish.  I (along with everyone else I suppose) am using WMC for Ceton playback at present.  But if MC can work it will be the final missing link for MC.

Eric

[hulkss]

It isn't likely to support the channels that have DRM, but we're not certain yet.

Do you plan to support DRM? Is it true that most all cable channels are DRM?

[Castius]

I'm very happy to hear this!!
Thank you

[babgvant]

Is it true that most all cable channels are DRM?

It depends on your MSO & location. If you have Comcast or Verizon you'll generally get everything but the premiums (HBO, Showtime, etc). Cox or TWC, almost everything is copy-once (requires DRM).

[stottle]

I've got a ceton 4 pcie.  Would be glad to test.  I currently use (and have set up) 7mc to work with the tuner.  

I've never used jriver for tv playback though, so I'm not sure how to get started.

I tried Drives & Devices -> Television, then did the "Double-click here to scan for channels."  That has failed twice, once for ATSC, and the 2nd time for QAM HRC+3.

Are there instructions anywhere?

BTW, thanks!  Would love to have this integrated into jriver, so I appreciate the effort.

<edit> I found yaobing's description for how to create a log, so I can provide that.  Not sure which "Digital scan type" to use for the scan.  Is there a specific type I should create a log for?</edit>

[gtgray]

I am going to assume this only works on the machine that hosts the device. My TV options has long shown the Ceton in TV options but it is only a network tuner on this machine. I will leave JRiver MC open in TV Standard View to see if it brings up a dialog indicating it had detected the device and offers to scan channels.

[JimH]

I've got a ceton 4 pcie.  Would be glad to test.  I currently use (and have set up) 7mc to work with the tuner. 

I've never used jriver for tv playback though, so I'm not sure how to get started.

I tried Drives & Devices -> Television, then did the "Double-click here to scan for channels."  That has failed twice, once for ATSC, and the 2nd time for QAM HRC+3.

Are there instructions anywhere?

In Yaobing's first post above.

Do you have 18.0.146 installed?

[Yaobing]

I've got a ceton 4 pcie.  Would be glad to test.  I currently use (and have set up) 7mc to work with the tuner.  

I've never used jriver for tv playback though, so I'm not sure how to get started.

I tried Drives & Devices -> Television, then did the "Double-click here to scan for channels."  That has failed twice, once for ATSC, and the 2nd time for QAM HRC+3.

Are there instructions anywhere?

BTW, thanks!  Would love to have this integrated into jriver, so I appreciate the effort.

<edit> I found yaobing's description for how to create a log, so I can provide that.  Not sure which "Digital scan type" to use for the scan.  Is there a specific type I should create a log for?</edit>

In Standard View, go to Drives & Devices, Television.  click "TV Options..." and then "Scan for channels...".  On the first wizard page, select the types of channels you like to scan (CableCARD is at the bottom of the page).

[stottle]

Ok, so I was not following the instructions above.  I went to Drives & Devices and saw the big blank section that said something like "double-click to scan for channels", so I did that.

Didn't notice the TV Options... button at all, until I went back to reread yaobing's post.

I quite possibly didn't wait long enough for the tuners to show up.  Once the tuners were available under "show status...", I was able to scan for channels successfully (the QAM-HRC stuff didn't show up in the wizard, either).  Only reason for mentioning this is in case you want to make the setup more idiot-proof down the road.

I haven't tried any recordings, but I was able to tune to a non-pay channel and watch.  I just got a black screen with a few "noise boxes" when I tried a premium channel.

So nice work so far. 

My reactions from playback:

Playing a stream started off erratic (it would play for a fraction of a second, then pause, then play a little bit again and repeat).  I built up a little pause, and it then played fine.  I was watching on my computer with a mouse, not my TV with a remote.  The mouse interactions were not what I expected.  The mouse wheel would zoom in/out, when what I expected was to jump forward/backwards against the play buffer.

I liked that it showed what was playing and what was next for the channel in a "pop-up" at the bottom of the screen.  However, when I used the forward/back buttons on the title bar, I again expected to shift in time.  Instead, it would show a "pop-up" for channels above or below what I was watching.  Ok, so that is a channel up/channel down instead of seek.  Except I couldn't figure out how to actually go to that other channel.

When I stopped and tried to change to another live channel (a network channel), the playback just paused, and never started playing the new channel.

Hopefully this is the type of feedback you are looking for.

[stottle]

Forgot to ask.  Since I am still using 7MC for recordings right now, are there any conflicts between 7MC and jriver?  For instance, is it ok to record the same program in both programs?  Anything I should/shouldn't do?

[Yaobing]

Forgot to ask.  Since I am still using 7MC for recordings right now, are there any conflicts between 7MC and jriver?  For instance, is it ok to record the same program in both programs?  Anything I should/shouldn't do?

If both programs try to use the same tuner at the same time, there is a problem.  To minimize such possibility, you can sort the order of the 4 tuners inside MC.  For example if you think 7MC always try to use tuner 1, you can put tuner 4 on top of the list in MC so MC will try using tuner 4 first.

[bulldogger]

John is ordering the USB model and will test it next week.

Here's a review I found http://www.missingremote.com/review/ceton-infinitv-4-usb-cablecard-tuner

[gtgray]

In Yaobing's first post above.

Do you have 18.0.146 installed?

18.0.146 is installed

I read his post. Ceton supports Network Tuners. That means that although this PC has no physical Ceton tuner in it. WMC and JR TV options sees the one Ceton Tuner I have assigned to it via the Ceton Network Tuner option. When I try to scan channels I get MC has stopped responding. My device 4 is a the Ceton, the first 3 devices are HD Homeruns

I also have two HD Homeruns setup on this machine and I already have an EPG populated by mc2xl... so I have a fully populated program guide for the Ceton and the HD Homeruns. I did move the Ceton to priority 1 but when you click on a cable channel it says no tuner is available.

So the question is whether a Network Tuner is supported or only tuners directly in the host. In other word does the instance of MC 18 have to be running on the Ceton Host machine?

[Yaobing]

I read his post. Ceton supports Network Tuners. That means that although this PC has no physical Ceton tuner in it. WMC and JR TV options sees the one Ceton Tuner I have assigned to it via the Ceton Network Tuner option. When I try to scan channels I get MC has stopped responding. My device 4 is a the Ceton, the first 3 devices are HD Homeruns

Scanning for channels does not directly involve the Ceton tuner.  Therefore the crash must be cause by something else.

I also have two HD Homeruns setup on this machine and I already have an EPG populated by mc2xl... so I have a fully populated program guide for the Ceton and the HD Homeruns. I did move the Ceton to priority 1 but when you click on a cable channel it says no tuner is available.

The program guide that you already have are associated with the other types of channels and thus can not be used with the Ceton device.

You need to scan for Ceton channels.  The scanning process involves downloading an xmltv file and pulling channels from it.

So the question is whether a Network Tuner is supported or only tuners directly in the host. In other word does the instance of MC 18 have to be running on the Ceton Host machine?

I did not know Ceton is networked.  So I only tested it on the host machine.

[babgvant]

I did not know Ceton is networked.  So I only tested it on the host machine.

DCT are network devices.

Ceton devices (because they require a PC host) operate on their own private network unless you configure them to join the larger LAN (which makes them useful to other clients) by bridging through the PC's NIC. This step isn't necessary with the PRIME since it doesn't have a PC host, you put it on the network and it can be used by anything attached to the same subnet.

[Yaobing]

DCT are network devices.

Ceton devices (because they require a PC host) operate on their own private network unless you configure them to join the larger LAN (which makes them useful to other clients) by bridging through the PC's NIC. This step isn't necessary with the PRIME since it doesn't have a PC host, you put it on the network and it can be used by anything attached to the same subnet.

Thanks for the info.  I did try making the device available on another computer but did not succeed.  I did not know how to bridge it to my network.

[babgvant]

Thanks for the info.  I did try making the device available on another computer but did not succeed.  I did not know how to bridge it to my network.

You can do it yourself if you know the steps, but the easiest way is to use the tool Ceton provides.

[gtgray]

Scanning for channels does not directly involve the Ceton tuner.  Therefore the crash must be cause by something else.

The program guide that you already have are associated with the other types of channels and thus can not be used with the Ceton device.

You need to scan for Ceton channels.  The scanning process involves downloading an xmltv file and pulling channels from it.

I did not know Ceton is networked.  So I only tested it on the host machine.

When you run mc2mxl for the cablecard tuner at the end of the channel scan it lists finding a whole bunch of channels which look correct. It then offers to keep the old guide data and merges them. So I have a program guide that has both ATSC and CableCard data with the right channel assignments. Essentially the way WMC does it.

 The problem is that when you go to select a Comcast channel it says no tuner is available. Whether that is because the tuner is not on the local machine or for some other reason I can not guess. I am reluctant to install on my Ceton Host as that it my production TV cable box and is finally working as or more robustly then a Tivo HD.

Something you should understand about a networked Ceton tuner is that the tuners is not dynamic. When you setup a network tuner with the Ceton tools, the network tuner is dedicated to the PC you assigned it to. Once that occurs Windows Media TV Signal Setup is run and the tuner appears to WMC just as if it a local tuner. The networked tuner is no longer available to the pool of tuners on the host PC. You could for example not have any of the 4 tuners assigned to the host. They could all be assigned to another WMC PC on the lan. My brother has two Cetons giving him 8 tuners and none are assigned to the host. They are all assigned to various PC in his home network.

[EricTheBlue]

Yaobing,

First, thank you (and the rest of the JRiver staff where appropriate) for offering Ceton tuner support within MC.  With regard to Ceton tuner configuration,  I've successfully implemented it locally and shared via LAN.  With regard to tuner sharing via the LAN, the first key step is to ensure during the installation of the Ceton software and driver that you select the network driver option, as it will not be installed by default.  Once you do this and the software is installed and you run the mandatory Cable Advisor tool (required for WMC anyway, I'm not sure if it applies for MC), you'll want to use the Ceton "Network Tuners" option within WMC to offer the tuners over the network.  The other key step to keep in mind is that if you want to share all the host tuners with other hosts on the LAN, none should be assigned to the local host when offered by the software.  Once this is complete the network bridge will be created with a DHCP IP address if it is in use on the LAN (it can be set to a static IP manually later if you wish-my personal preference).  Once the Ceton bridge is established you'll see it in the Windows network applet as a configurable network device.

A couple of other points:
At the end of end of establishing the Ceton network bridge you'll be asked if you want to proceed to WMC setup for the tuners.  If you shared them all with other hosts there is no need to do this (though it must be done on the other hosts that use the tuners).  If network tuner sharing was done correctly you'll know in two ways.  The first is that physical tuners in the host sharing them will appear as local devices within the Ceton diagnostics app on remote clients.  The other indicator is that when you configure remote clients via WMC to use the tuners, they will appear as local tuners.  You'll be able to choose from the pool of tuners shared which ones you want to use on individual hosts.  As tuners are assigned, they will not be available for other hosts.  It actually works quite well but again, this is all within the context of Ceton and WMC.  Given that Ceton support for MC is new, I wasn't counting on network support.  I'd be thrilled if it was available but frankly I'm grateful for any kind of support within MC.  I have a Windows 7 host with a Ceton tuner I can play with already configured for sharing tuners and I'll try it later today.  If it doesn't work I'll reset for local use only and try again.  Like another member on this tread mentioned I have zero experience with configuring tuners of any kind within MC but I'll use the instructions you provided and see what happens.

Final point about Ceton network tuner sharing:  Though I've heard there are hacks available, I was never able to get tuner sharing to work on a Window 8 client.  In all fairness Ceton clearly states as much on their website.    

[Yaobing]

When you run mc2mxl for the cablecard tuner at the end of the channel scan it lists finding a whole bunch of channels which look correct. It then offers to keep the old guide data and merges them. So I have a program guide that has both ATSC and CableCard data with the right channel assignments. Essentially the way WMC does it.

I need to clarify something here.  In MC we still do not handle seamless merging of different types of tuners.  So for now your Comcast channels on Ceton device and your ATSC channels on HDHomerun are treated as different channels.  Programming guides are separately assigned to these channels too.  Unfortunately only one set of guide may be available in Theater View.  This will be worked out eventually.

The dialog you saw at the end of Ceton channel scan probably was this - "Would you like to load porgramming guide that may have already been downloaded?".   It is a little confusing but it was meant to say that some guide data was downloaded during the process of downloading your new channel data; if you want to you can associate the guide data to the newly created channels.

The problem is that when you go to select a Comcast channel it says no tuner is available. Whether that is because the tuner is not on the local machine or for some other reason I can not guess. I am reluctant to install on my Ceton Host as that it my production TV cable box and is finally working as or more robustly then a Tivo HD.

Let's forget about the guide for a moment, so we can rule out the confusion about guide that maybe associated with different types of channels.  What happens when you double-click a comcast channel in Standard view?

That channel would have a tuner type "OpenCable" and MC would look for an OpenCable device.  Since your do have one Ceton tuner available (and you waited long enough for MC to discover it so it appeared in the devices list in TV Options window), that tuner should have been used to play the channel.

Something you should understand about a networked Ceton tuner is that the tuners is not dynamic. When you setup a network tuner with the Ceton tools, the network tuner is dedicated to the PC you assigned it to. Once that occurs Windows Media TV Signal Setup is run and the tuner appears to WMC just as if it a local tuner. The networked tuner is no longer available to the pool of tuners on the host PC. You could for example not have any of the 4 tuners assigned to the host. They could all be assigned to another WMC PC on the lan. My brother has two Cetons giving him 4 tuners and none are assigned to the host. They are all assigned to various PC in his home network.

Thanks for the info.  If they are not dynamic, it is more likely it should have worked in your case.

[Yaobing]

Yaobing,

First, thank you (and the rest of the JRiver staff where appropriate) for offering Ceton tuner support within MC.  With regard to Ceton tuner configuration,  I've successfully implemented it locally and shared via LAN.  With regard to tuner sharing via the LAN, the first key step is to ensure during the installation of the Ceton software and driver that you select the network driver option, as it will not be installed by default.  Once you do this and the software is installed and you run the mandatory Cable Advisor tool (required for WMC anyway, I'm not sure if it applies for MC), you'll want to use the Ceton "Network Tuners" option within WMC to offer the tuners over the network.  The other key step to keep in mind is that if you want to share all the host tuners with other hosts on the LAN, none should be assigned to the local host when offered by the software.  Once this is complete the network bridge will be created with a DHCP IP address if it is in use on the LAN (it can be set to a static IP manually later if you wish-my personal preference).  Once the Ceton bridge is established you'll see it in the Windows network applet as a configurable network device.

A couple of other points:
At the end of end of establishing the Ceton network bridge you'll be asked if you want to proceed to WMC setup for the tuners.  If you shared them all with other hosts there is no need to do this (though it must be done on the other hosts that use the tuners).  If network tuner sharing was done correctly you'll know in two ways.  The first is that physical tuners in the host sharing them will appear as local devices within the Ceton diagnostics app on remote clients.  The other indicator is that when you configure remote clients via WMC to use the tuners, they will appear as local tuners.  You'll be able to choose from the pool of tuners shared which ones you want to use on individual hosts.  As tuners are assigned, they will not be available for other hosts.  It actually works quite well but again, this is all within the context of Ceton and WMC.  Given that Ceton support for MC is new, I wasn't counting on network support.  I'd be thrilled if it was available but frankly I'm grateful for any kind of support within MC.  I have a Windows 7 host with a Ceton tuner I can play with already configured for sharing tuners and I'll try it later today.  If it doesn't work I'll reset for local use only and try again.  Like another member on this tread mentioned I have zero experience with configuring tuners of any kind within MC but I'll use the instructions you provided and see what happens.

Final point about Ceton network tuner sharing:  Though I've heard there are hacks available, I was never able to get tuner sharing to work on a Window 8 client.  In all fairness Ceton clearly states as much on their website.    

Thank you.

[JimH]

My thanks as well.  I've added your instructions here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Ceton

[Mudguppie]

Will this new capability ever support extenders?

[JimH]

Can you be specific about what extender you want to use?

[gtgray]

Let's forget about the guide for a moment, so we can rule out the confusion about guide that maybe associated with different types of channels.  What happens when you double-click a comcast channel in Standard view?

That channel would have a tuner type "OpenCable" and MC would look for an OpenCable device.  Since your do have one Ceton tuner available (and you waited long enough for MC to discover it so it appeared in the devices list in TV Options window), that tuner should have been used to play the channel.

Thanks for the info.  If they are not dynamic, it is more likely it should have worked in your case.

First is that I never had to wait for the Ceton to show up in TV Options. It has been there with every version I can remember going back at least since early versions of MC 17. I have only tried Standard View and if I click on 625 which is an unprotected channel (CNN HD) I just get a message that reads

"No television tuner is available to fulfill your request make sure you have a device that is not in use."

[gtgray]

I wanted to add that it is very easy to determine by channel number a cable tuner channel vs. the ATSC HD channel. That is what I meant. For example 8 is cable SD. 8.1 is the ATSC HD version. 608 is the cable HD. That is the same in the guide for WMC, the Tivo and that is how it appear in MC18 Standard View. I haven't looked at the EPG in Theater view but I will now.

Theater View is the same as Standard View. ATSC has channel # plus subchannel #, cablecard has channel number 1,2 or 3 digits.

[Yaobing]

First is that I never had to wait for the Ceton to show up in TV Options. It has been there with every version I can remember going back at least since early versions of MC 17. I have only tried Standard View and if I click on 625 which is an unprotected channel (CNN HD) I just get a message that reads

"No television tuner is available to fulfill your request make sure you have a device that is not in use."

This is odd.  Prior to MC18.0.146 there should be no Ceton device listed in MC.  Do you have Ceton InfiniTV 4?  Are you using some special drivers for the device?  Ceton InfiniTV 4 is a new type of device that we did not previously support, and thus would not have listed under television devices.

I wanted to add that it is very easy to determine by channel number a cable tuner channel vs. the ATSC HD channel. That is what I meant. For example 8 is cable SD. 8.1 is the ATSC HD version. 608 is the cable HD. That is the same in the guide for WMC, the Tivo and that is how it appear in MC18 Standard View. I haven't looked at the EPG in Theater view but I will now.

Theater View is the same as Standard View. ATSC has channel # plus subchannel #, cablecard has channel number 1,2 or 3 digits.

OK.  That is fine.  In my previous post I just wanted to make sure you were trying to play the correct channel that is associated with the device.

Please go to Standard television view and click TV Options... and choose "Copy television related info to clipboard".  Email the info to me, along with a MC log showing you attempting to play a channel.  yaobing at jriver dot com

[gtgray]

This is odd.  Prior to MC18.0.146 there should be no Ceton device listed in MC.  Do you have Ceton InfiniTV 4?  Are you using some special drivers for the device?  Ceton InfiniTV 4 is a new type of device that we did not previously support, and thus would not have listed under television devices.

  yaobing at jriver dot com

I assure you the Ceton has shown up in TV Options for a very long time and yes it is an InfiniTV 4 PCIe. Remember it is not physically installed this PC. It a network tuner, I assigned one of the 4 tuners on the living room HTPC to this PC in my office using the Ceton Network Tuner Utility in WMC. After being asigned it was configure with TV Signal Set Up in WMC and works fine in WMC. It is the only one of the cablecard tuners that can be seen by WMC from this PC.

I will send you mail

Edit: I am using nothing that you don't have if you have a Ceton InfiniTV4. I am using the latest drivers at the host which I update as they become available but the setup of Ceton tuner is done at this PC first through the Ceton Network Utility and then WMC TV Signal Setup. Yes you have to run the Digital Cable TV advisor or you don't get the copy protected content in WMC but you can duplicate my situation with 2 PCs. One that is the Host and has the first 3 of the Ceton Tuners assigned to it, a second that has Tuner 4 assigned to it.

[EricTheBlue]

Jim, Yaobing:

You're welcome with regard to the Ceton Network Tuner install tips.  Now I hope you (and/or the rest of the community) can help me.  I've tried to get the Ceton working within MC (.146) in two ways.  First I tried using the client PC in Ceton Network Tuner mode (no physical tuner but but appears within Ceton and WMC software).  I tried the traditional setup within WMC first to ensure it worked and it did.  I then stopped TV playback and closed WMC.  After following Yaobing's setup instructions within MC I got the proper channel list but when I tried to watch one I got the error message that no tuner was available.  This didn't necessarily surprise me since I was essentially using a virtual tuner.

So I tried again using the host that held the physical Ceton tuner (internal PCIe).  I did a fresh Ceton software install and did not install the network tuner driver.  Like the prior network install, I did a full setup for WMC TV first to ensure the tuner worked properly.  Again, it worked perfectly within WMC.  I stopped TV playback, closed WMC and tried the MC setup again.  Like before I got the proper channel list but no TV device was detected by MC, though it clearly shows up within Windows Device Manager and worked without incident in WMC.  After this failure I used the Ceton software to remove the tuner configuration from WMC and tried again.  Once more MC failed to detect the Ceton device.

OS is Win7 64bit Home premium (both hosts I tried).

Next steps? 

[Yaobing]

gtgray's log revealed something curious.  A single bda device is listed - one that is in the same category as your HDHomerun tuners.  This is curious because a Ceton developer told me that they do not have bda drivers.  That is why the device has always been listed.

You can verify for me that this device actually appear in the list of devices on TV Options window as follows:

Ceton InfiniTV PCIe (hh-hh-hh-hh) Tuner 4 (hh-hh-hh-hh-hh-hh-hh-hh) (digital)

instead of

Ceton InfiniTV PCIe (hh-hh-hh-hh) Tuner 4 (hh-hh-hh-hh-hh-hh-hh-hh) (OpenCable)

where (hh-hh-hh-hh) represents a set of hex numbers that would be different from device to device.

If this appears as a bda device, I wonder whether we can treat it as an ATSC device or a QAM device.  What happens if you scan for QAM channels using this device?

With regard to recently added support for Ceton device, it is assumed that the device does not have bda driver.  We list it as a separate category of tuners (OpenCable).  I just realized that I must have omitted an important step in my instructions above.

You should turn on DLNA option.  Go to Tools > Options, and select Media Network.  Check the checkbox "Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA".

[JimH]

I moved the development discussion to the beta board.

[Yaobing]

I reinstalled Ceton software, this time making sure I choose network option.  Now my Ceton devices are accessible on multiple computers.  I did not let Windows Media Center to claim any tuner as local.  So all four tuners are seen on other computers. 

In MC18, I can use the tuners on different computers (after enabling DLNA options).  There are a couple of problems.  One is easy to fix in MC.  The other is difficult.

1.  The easy one.  MC is not sorting the four tuners even if I move them up or down in the device list.  It is just an oversight on my part.

2.  The hard one.  As network devices, the tuners are accessed in different computers.  There is no way of coordinating which computer use which device when they simultaneously try to use the tuners.  Right now, if I try playing from both computers, both try to use tuner 1.  That would not work.  The situation will be improved once I fix the bug in 1 above.   But still we will have a problem if both computers try to use more than two tuners at the same time.  For this reason, I would almost recommend everyone to use the tuners as local tuners only, and use that one computer as your media server.  You can watch TV using other computers connected to the server as clients. 

[EricTheBlue]

Yaobing,

Your suggestion about activating MC's server function and DLNA was spot on and solved the problem of no tuners displaying within MC.  Note that I had to restart MC after activating the server and DLNA for the tuners to appear.

Suggestion:  You may want to re-post your setup instructions and add the Server/DLNA step so all the instructions appear in the same place.  You may also want to mention which QAM frequency option should be selected. I went with the default of (I'm doing this from memory so this may be slightly) QAM-HC3+ and it appears to offer most of my cable channels (more on this in a moment).  Also you mentioned the need to select (again I apologize as I'm doing this all from last night's fleeting memory) QAM Cable as the tuner type but IMS the option at the top of the list (Digital channels or something like that) is selected by default.  Do both options need to be selected or just QAM Cable if I'm only using a Ceton tuner?

Quick Feedback:  I've only spent 15 minutes or so experimenting with the Ceton within MC on a limited PC (built for Ceton tuner sharing only so no space for recording TV for example).  Thus my comments will be likewise limited.  My experience was pretty much the same as Stottle's.

* Like Stottle, when tuning a channel in standard view it would take a few several seconds with a black screen to see an image.  Once display began, the sound was seriously distorted and the image heavily pixelated for a few seconds as buffers filled up.  But once they did audio and video played well.
* I used a wireless keyboard with built in trackball/scrollwheel and experienced the same thing Stottle did with the image zooming in and out if the cursor was on the screen.
* I tried the rewind and fast forward controls.  They work but, after using them then returning to normal playback ~ 60 seconds later the image froze and the sound stuttered (best described as a continual looping digital distortion sound.  Playback had to be stopped and re-started to end both symptoms.  In short, so long as I played the channel without RW or FF it played well.
* Though I've only tested a few HD channels within my cable package I consistently watch, they all play fine (with the caveats of my prior bullet point), with the exception of premium channels (in my case, HBO).  Anytime I tried to tune a SD or HD HBO channel, I experienced one of three errors:  The MC message "no signal detected", or "error with playback-restarting" (I only got a black screen with no sound afterwards), or a gray screen with no sound or image.  Thus, it appears at this point MC can't play the cable channels with higher level DRM applied.  I'm using Comcast for cable TV with no SDV, and all testing was done via Standard View.


Suggestions based on my limited experience so far:

* If possible, try to speed up tuning time once a channel is selected.
* On a related note to the prior item, if possible keep the screen black with no sound long enough for the buffers to fill so that when playback starts there is no sound distortion or pixelated image.
* Alter the UI so the scroll wheel does not zoom the image in or out when the cursor is anywhere on the screen, but keep the function where it changes volume when the cursor is on the volume bar.
* Modify the RW and FF buttons so you don't have to hold them down for a second or two for the action to occur.  A simple click on the control should instantly initiate the action.
* Fix the bug with the freezing image and distorted sound occurring shortly after RW or FF is used.
* Try to mimic as much as you can the UI of Microsoft's WMC.  Whether one likes WMC or not, its DVR is superb in terms of effective UI and ease of use day to day.  For example (and this is one more suggestion), when you bring up the transport and volume controls by moving the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen in WMC, beyond the basic transport controls MC offers the WMC bar also offers a shortcut icon for the gridview channel guide, record channel button, and close captioning on/off-three very useful controls that MC should also offer.

All and all, a very good initial effort for Ceton support.  

 

[Yaobing]

Yaobing,

Your suggestion about activating MC's server function and DLNA was spot on and solved the problem of no tuners displaying within MC.  Note that I had to restart MC after activating the server and DLNA for the tuners to appear.

I am glad you are now able to play.  My DLNA option has been on for a long time thus I have forgotten about it.

Suggestion:  You may want to re-post your setup instructions and add the Server/DLNA step so all the instructions appear in the same place.  

That was already done, but it is a good suggestion.

You may also want to mention which QAM frequency option should be selected. I went with the default of (I'm doing this from memory so this may be slightly) QAM-HC3+ and it appears to offer most of my cable channels (more on this in a moment).  Also you mentioned the need to select (again I apologize as I'm doing this all from last night's fleeting memory) QAM Cable as the tuner type but IMS the option at the top of the list (Digital channels or something like that) is selected by default.  Do both options need to be selected or just QAM Cable if I'm only using a Ceton tuner?

QAM and its options are under "Scan for digital channels", which is selected by default.  But if you do not have a QAM tuner, or any other tuners in that category (ATSC, DVB-T/C/S), you should uncheck it.

For Ceton device, you should use "Scan for CableCARD channels".

On the first page of the channel scanning wizard, you can check as many check boxes as the types of tuners you have.  The program will scan them in the order as they appear on the wizard page.

Quick Feedback:  I've only spent 15 minutes or so experimenting with the Ceton within MC on a limited PC (built for Ceton tuner sharing only so no space for recording TV for example).  Thus my comments will be likewise limited.  My experience was pretty much the same as Stottle's.

* Like Stottle, when tuning a channel in standard view it would take a few several seconds with a black screen to see an image.  Once display began, the sound was seriously distorted and the image heavily pixelated for a few seconds as buffers filled up.  But once they did audio and video played well.
* I used a wireless keyboard with built in trackball/scrollwheel and experienced the same thing Stottle did with the image zooming in and out if the cursor was on the screen.
* I tried the rewind and fast forward controls.  They work but, after using them then returning to normal playback ~ 60 seconds later the image froze and the sound stuttered (best described as a continual looping digital distortion sound.  Playback had to be stopped and re-started to end both symptoms.  In short, so long as I played the channel without RW or FF it played well.
* Though I've only tested a few HD channels within my cable package I consistently watch, they all play fine (with the caveats of my prior bullet point), with the exception of premium channels (in my case, HBO).  Anytime I tried to tune a SD or HD HBO channel, I experienced one of three errors:  The MC message "no signal detected", or "error with playback-restarting" (I only got a black screen with no sound afterwards), or a gray screen with no sound or image.  Thus, it appears at this point MC can't play the cable channels with higher level DRM applied.  I'm using Comcast for cable TV with no SDV, and all testing was done via Standard View.


Suggestions based on my limited experience so far:

* If possible, try to speed up tuning time once a channel is selected.
* On a related note to the prior item, if possible keep the screen black with no sound long enough for the buffers to fill so that when playback starts there is no sound distortion or pixelated image.
* Alter the UI so the scroll wheel does not zoom the image in or out when the cursor is anywhere on the screen, but keep the function where it changes volume when the cursor is on the volume bar.
* Modify the RW and FF buttons so you don't have to hold them down for a second or two for the action to occur.  A simple click on the control should instantly initiate the action.
* Fix the bug with the freezing image and distorted sound occurring shortly after RW or FF is used.
* Try to mimic as much as you can the UI of Microsoft's WMC.  Whether one likes WMC or not, its DVR is superb in terms of effective UI and ease of use day to day.  For example (and this is one more suggestion), when you bring up the transport and volume controls by moving the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen in WMC, beyond the basic transport controls MC offers the WMC bar also offers a shortcut icon for the gridview channel guide, record channel button, and close captioning on/off-three very useful controls that MC should also offer.

All and all, a very good initial effort for Ceton support.  

Thanks for all the feed backs.  Since this is the initial support offered for the Ceton device, we know there have to be some issues.  Some of these issues are known to us (for example, it takes several seconds for the video to start to appear on screen).  We will continue working on the device, especially on fixing old and new bugs.

Some other things you mentioned involve user interface matters.  We will also take suggestions and try our best to improve.  Some of them, however, probably will not change as they have been their ways for a long time, some as results of other user's suggestions.  Users may need to get used to using them the way they are.  Regarding FF/REW buttons, I think you are talking about the buttons on the top-left corner of the window.  They have double functions.  When you click on them without holding, they act as "switch track" buttons.  In terms of TV, they change channels.  When you hold them, they are FF/REW.  Therefore, this behavior will not be changed.  There are also other ways of performing FF/REW.  LEFT or RIGHT Arrows on the keyboard as well as on the remote control act as "jump forward/backward".  Holding them down allows you to skip around very quickly.  CTRL+RIGHT Arrow lets you do true FF at 5x, 20x or 100x speed.

[gtgray]

I enabled MediaServer and DLNA.. and restarted MC. Now I don't get the no tuner message but I only get garbled audio and no video. I let it run for a long time 9 minutes and still no video. If you change channels MC will shutdown with a not respsonding messge.. I am going to reboot and try again.

[Mudguppie]

Can you be specific about what extender you want to use?

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I have both the Ceton Echo and a couple of discontinued HP X280Ns.

[gtgray]

I enabled MediaServer and DLNA.. and restarted MC. Now I don't get the no tuner message but I only get garbled audio and no video. I let it run for a long time 9 minutes and still no video. If you change channels MC will shutdown with a not respsonding messge.. I am going to reboot and try again.

It worked after reboot, well at least it works in SD. Both SD and HD start pretty much immediately but HD 720P or 1080i are unwatchable. There is clearly a performance problem in HD. HD video and audio  break up severly. HD definitely pixelates on all but the simples static screens.

This box has an Intel Nic onboard and these channels play perfectly in WMC.

We are definitely making some progress. You can not double clik on a cable channel and have it start. If you highlight and select watch cable channels start almost right away

[EricTheBlue]

I reinstalled Ceton software, this time making sure I choose network option.  Now my Ceton devices are accessible on multiple computers.  I did not let Windows Media Center to claim any tuner as local.  So all four tuners are seen on other computers. 

In MC18, I can use the tuners on different computers (after enabling DLNA options).  There are a couple of problems.  One is easy to fix in MC.  The other is difficult.

1.  The easy one.  MC is not sorting the four tuners even if I move them up or down in the device list.  It is just an oversight on my part.

2.  The hard one.  As network devices, the tuners are accessed in different computers.  There is no way of coordinating which computer use which device when they simultaneously try to use the tuners.  Right now, if I try playing from both computers, both try to use tuner 1.  That would not work.  The situation will be improved once I fix the bug in 1 above.   But still we will have a problem if both computers try to use more than two tuners at the same time.  For this reason, I would almost recommend everyone to use the tuners as local tuners only, and use that one computer as your media server.  You can watch TV using other computers connected to the server as clients. 

I find the prospect of item 2 compelling.  I have a PC now I am planning to use as a exclusively as a NAS (Win8 via storage spaces in parity mode with a healthy amount of storage).  At present, it also has one Ceton PCIe card in it and I've been using WMC to watch and record TV in the living room.  MC also runs on this box for ripped movie and music playback.  Having WMC and MC on the same physical host works OK, but it's clumsy at times.  Further, this PC is slightly noisy and bright, hence the motivation for having the host serve as a NAS idea in a isolated room.  I have another Ceton tuner available that can go in this NAS so it could offer 8 tuner total to 2-3 clients all running MC.  Are you saying if I configure the NAS as a MC server multiple MC clients can access its tuners for use as if they were locally installed?  If yes, how do I set this up?  Can a client access more than one tuner (watch a channel live while recording another one for example)?  Unlike WMC where Ceton recordings must be stored on the host that contains the tuner (physically or virtually via Ceton's network tuner feature), I assume MC recordings could be stored on the NAS and played by the client over the network correct? 

[greynolds]

Unlike WMC where Ceton recordings must be stored on the host that contains the tuner (physically or virtually via Ceton's network tuner feature), I assume MC recordings could be stored on the NAS and played by the client over the network correct? 

That limitation applies only to Copy Once content.  Any programs that are marked Copy Freely can be watched on any PC you want.  Also note that the Copy Once recordings can be copied anywhere you want, the limitation is that they can only be watched on the PC they were recorded on or an extender (such as an Xbox or Ceton Exho).  If MC ever adds support for Copy Once content, don't be surprised if they're forced to implement some similar limitations.