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[InflatableMouse]

I have posted about this before and found that with deinterlacing enabled GPU performance was capped at 100%. This explained at the time why this wasn't working for me. I'm reposting about this because with the more relaxed settings I've changed to recently I believe it should work but it doesn't. I'm logging GPU stats to a file and GPU usage is typically around 20%, sometimes 21 or 22% but never more than that.

The problem is that dvds (and rips to video_ts) repeat a lot of frames and playback is stuttering a lot (its unwatchable).

I'm using ROHQ / Madvr with deinterlacing enabled and force film mode. Scaling is set to medium settings as you can see from the rendering times:
display 24hz
smooth motion is off
FSE
clock deviation 3.46%
movie 25fps
1 frame drop every 7.42 secs
vsync interval 41.67ms
movie frame interval 40ms
deinterlacing is on
film mode, unknown cadence
cadence breaks 18
decoder queue 11-13/12
ivtc queue 10-11/12
upload queue 7-8/8
render queue 7-8/8
present queue 5-6/6
dropped frames 84 (forgot to reset, once reset it remains at 0)
repeated frames 3545 (and rising quickly)
delayed frames 0
presentation glitches 0
average stats
ivtc 0.78ms
rendering 10.39ms
present 0.18ms
max stats
ivtc 0.93ms
rendering 10.68ms
present 0.27ms

Whats weird I think is that after I reset the stats, frame drops remain 0 even though it says its dropping a frame every 7.42 secs.

Also, the deinterlacer doesn't seem to work very well. There's a lot of interlacing visible.

When I disable deinterlacing, the problems go away and the video plays smoothly but obviously its interlaced (although I seriously doubt its worse than with it enabled) but whats even stranger is that GPU usage goes up to 26%.

So to sum it up, deinterlacing doesn't seem to work and enabling it makes dvd's (rips or straight from disc) unwatchable.

I hope someone can confirm/reproduce my findings because I would really like to get this resolved. I don't want to be forced to create deinterlaced/decombed mkvs every time I want to watch interlaced materials.

[Hendrik]

If your display is 24Hz, and you deinterlace any DVD, it has no choice but to drops boatloads of frames, because deinterlacing produces 50 or 60 fps (PAL/NTSC respectively), *much* more then your 24p screen can ever show.
This will just not produce a watchable result.

[InflatableMouse]

Oke now I'm confused. I thought 50i produced 25p (combining the 2 half frames, thus halving the fps) but being displayed at 50hz its just showing each frame twice? It does say 'movie 25p' in the stats  ?.

I thought 24hz made sense because PAL is NTSC sped up by 4% ... I then figured it was telecined (ivtc also in the stats) hence the 24hz. Hey for a guy with half a brain that makes sense right? 

I thought I had finally got it all correct ... except that it wasn't working lol 

When I disable 'disable automatic source type detection' video plays smoothly again, see attached image. At least its deinterlacing properly without hogging the GPU so I achieved that much.

But I'm afraid now its not doing ivtc and honestly I'm not sure how to check whether a source requires detelecining or not. And PAL DVD is still playing too fast.

Guess I'm back to square one....

[6233638]

What are the DVDs of? It sounds like this is Video-Type content that is being displayed using Film-Mode in madVR.
Unfortunately a lot of PAL releases are terrible NTSC conversions and are encoded in such a way that you're never going to avoid seeing interlacing artefacts.

For example: PAL Sample. (warning: contains dead body - sorry, it's the first example I could think of that included a lot of slow panning)

While I think the original source for this was 24p, the PAL DVD is encoded in such a way that I have to add [deint=video], which forces Video-Type deinterlacing and switches my display to 50Hz, for it to be watchable in madVR.

Oke now I'm confused. I thought 50i produced 25p (combining the 2 half frames, thus halving the fps) but being displayed at 50hz its just showing each frame twice? It does say 'movie 25p' in the stats  ?.

Sometimes it produces 25p, sometimes it produces 50p.

[InflatableMouse]

Thanks guys.

The dvd's are:
Eric Clapton and Friends (1986) - PAL region 2.
Alison Krauss + Union Station - NTSC.

What are the DVDs of? It sounds like this is Video-Type content that is being displayed using Film-Mode in madVR.

It was, I forced film mode which in turn I thought would detelecine the once original film telecined and sped up to PAL but it doesn't work that way .

I turned that off and EC plays fine at 25p and the interlace artifacts are mostly gone so big difference but its still playing too fast.

Both are original DVD's. AKUS was actually imported from the States. It plays fine and is properly deinterlaced too but isn't this one telecined? It was originally filmed in full HD (says so on the back of the cover ) so that would make it 24p right? They don't film in NTSC or do they? I really don't know ...  . Screen attached from the stats.

Thanks again!

[InflatableMouse]

PS. I'm not sure what to do with that PAL sample. its got a folder and bunch of files starting with a dot. I expected a few screenshots or a small video sample  ?

[6233638]

PS. I'm not sure what to do with that PAL sample. its got a folder and bunch of files starting with a dot. I expected a few screenshots or a small video sample  ?

Weird, it should be an MKV file. Are you using 7-zip to extract it? I'll try another file host - someone else reported similar issues a while back.

[Hendrik]

Concerts are usually Video content, not Film, so it would not be telecined but true 50/60 fps content.
Proper deinterlacing will create one frame for every field, so your 50 fields will produce 50 frames, converting the 25 interlaced frames to 50 progressive frames.

Thats the whole point of interlacing, increasing the temporal resolution while keeping the bitrate down. You get 50 different points in time, for the bitrate of 25, and a proper deinterlacer restores 50 proper frames from that.

[6233638]

Here's that sample again (same warning applies) different host, and now in a regular zip file: http://www.sendspace.com/file/hewswy

I don't think there is anything that can be done to make it look good - I think it was effectively destroyed in the NTSC>PAL conversion, but using video mode is at least better than film mode.

[InflatableMouse]

Thanks Nev, its just that madvr tells me 25fps and it confuses me.

Either way, the interlaced content looks good again and I'm happy its able to deinterlace properly with the current settings.

62, I love The Wire! Excellent series. But yeh I see what you mean, that scene will never really look good anymore. Deinterlaced it still shows horrible artifacts. I don't recall seeing that when I watched it so I just checked my own and its NTSC .

[6233638]

Thanks Nev, its just that madvr tells me 25fps and it confuses me.

If you are forcing film mode, you are basically forcing 25fps.

Video mode allows it to be either 25fps or 50fps - but in my experience it will often misidentify 25fps content as 50fps content, which means reduced quality.
And since 99% of the interlaced content I watch is films, it makes sense to force film-type deinterlacing.

Things like concerts and documentaries are quite likely to be video-type content rather than film-type though, so if you watch mixed content rather than (primarily) films or drama, it's best not to force anything.

Deinterlaced it still shows horrible artifacts. I don't recall seeing that when I watched it so I just checked my own and its NTSC .

Well that's the problem - it's an NTSC source that has had a very poor PAL conversion job done - as was typical until fairly recently.
I assume the NTSC disc would actually deinterlace to 24p via IVTC, but because the conversion has been mishandled, it means you have to treat the PAL disc as video-type content. I don't think there's any way to "rescue" a conversion like that.

[InflatableMouse]

If you are forcing film mode, you are basically forcing 25fps.

Yeh I changed that with my 2nd post, all my pal dvds show as 25fps (says source filter). It has always shown that as far as I remember. When I forced film, madvr stats showed ivtc counters and its not showing that anymore. Other sources (NTSC or Film) show the proper fps and hz. I can only assume this is something iffy with madvr stats.

[Hendrik]

Video mode allows it to be either 25fps or 50fps - but in my experience it will often misidentify 25fps content as 50fps content, which means reduced quality.

Any good deinterlacer will not really reduce the quality, and the GPUs can even detect 2:2 cadences and then apply IVTC instead of deinterlacing, the only thing you don't get is the decimation, so you still end up with 50 frames, even if half of those are (near-)duplicates - more of a problem for NTSC than PAL.
How well this all works depends on the deinterlacer of course. YADIF has no smarts to detect such things, and may slightly reduce the quality, but GPUs do, with different levels of success depending on the vendor.

[Sandy B Ridge]

GPUs do, with different levels of success depending on the vendor.

Any good reviews of this anywhere or personal experience? Which is good, which is mediocre?

TIA

SBR

[InflatableMouse]

Any good deinterlacer will not really reduce the quality, and the GPUs can even detect 2:2 cadences and then apply IVTC instead of deinterlacing, the only thing you don't get is the decimation, so you still end up with 50 frames, even if half of those are (near-)duplicates - more of a problem for NTSC than PAL.
How well this all works depends on the deinterlacer of course. YADIF has no smarts to detect such things, and may slightly reduce the quality, but GPUs do, with different levels of success depending on the vendor.

I'm guessing this GPU detection doesn't work when using madvr to handle deinterlacing, or does it?

If it does, doesn't that negate the whole idea of ivtcing with madvr or detelecining with handbrake?