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Author Topic: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?  (Read 9428 times)

DMan17

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How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« on: June 25, 2013, 07:42:52 pm »

I run into a problem any time I try to change the sample rate away from the default.  Specifically the error is

Something went wrong with playback.
Detail:
Playback could not be started on the output 'Core Audio'
using the formate '88.2kHz 64bit 2ch'.

This output format may not be supported......

I know my DAC doesn't support 64bit play back. Searching the web I see screenshots of what appears to be the Windows version and under Tools -> Option -> Audio -> DSP and output format.  In the Windows menu there are options to change both the sample rate and bitdepth.  In MC 18.0.202 under the same menu I only have the option to change the sample rate.  Bitdepth doesn't even appear as an option.

BTW, the only way I can fix the issue is when I exit I cancel out of the menu and don't save any changes.  When I do that, the program returns both the sample rate (and bitdepth I assume, since the problem goes away) to the original default settings.  So really there are two issues.  1.  I can't set the bitdepth. 2.  Any time I exit out and don't save it returns to the orignal default value.  Although, please don't fix number 2 until we can change the bit depth.... that bug is my only way to solve the problem of #1.

Given the issue as of right now, I assume I'm limited to 48kHz/16bit playback...
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Matt

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 08:32:28 pm »

There's no need to configure the bitdepth.  The error is just a little misleading.

The most likely answer is that 88.2kHz isn't supported by your hardware.  You can use DSP Studio > Output Format to resample to something your hardware will like.
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DMan17

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 09:24:24 pm »

Thanks you for responding quickly.... it saved me additional time going down that troubleshooting path and looking to change the bit depth (although it would still be nice to do that).  It seems the only setting that works consistently is if I force everything to 44.1kHz.  I'm running a brand new Mac Mini that I purchased for the express purpose of running MC as a headless music server.  I'm using the optical output from the Mini which according to Apple supports up to 192/24 (some sites say it can only do 96/24) and running it into a Benchmark DAC1 which should accept up to 96/24 from it's optical input.  Either I'm missing something on the Mac/Benchmark config side, MC 18 is giving me a problem or in fact the Mac/Benchmark can only do 44.1kHz.

Oddly enough playing around with the sampling rates to find the exact text I could set it once to 88.2kHz once and get playback.  When I went back into the DSP menu the bottom right hand corner said 88.2kHz 64bit 2ch internal.  After a few times, I couldn't reproduce it. probably not related but putting it out there just in case.

I'm not expecting help troubleshooting my Mac or DAC, but I would like confirmation that you believe the issue is on the Mac/DAC side and not MC 18.  Before I spent countless hours troubleshooting that, I'd like some direction that the problem probably lies there.  Thanks.

Any other users getting their Mac Mini optical output to do more than 44.1kHz?
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 06:31:08 am »

I'm almost certain I can do 24/96 out of the analogue headphone jack.
higher on the optical.
and higher still with HDMI
running a mid 2010 mac mini.

I'll check later today and get back to you.
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Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 08:23:46 am »

Hi DMan17

I too am seeing setting Sample rates in DSP studio is not working correctly, this must be a recent issue as it was working fine. I have posted the problem in the current builds thread so that the developers will be aware.

Any other users getting their Mac Mini optical output to do more than 44.1kHz?

I only have a Macbook pro that is a few years old but can say that I regularly play 24/96 files via the optical out direct to my dac, I understood that this was the maximum sample rate that the port is capable of. I tried resetting the output in an attempt to try playing a 24/192 file which is when I discovered the problem that you had found.

I am not normally a Mac user, simply trying it out to see if a Mac Mini might suit my needs for a server, so there may be a setting within the OS that I am not aware of that may need changing.

Peter
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Matt

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 08:24:35 am »

Please try setting buffering in Options > Audio > Output mode settings to 'Hardware default'.

Then restart MC and your DAC and test again.

We're finding a lot of hardware on Mac that doesn't work well after it has its hardware buffer size changed (even though it reports that it'll support the change).
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 08:40:37 am »

Hi Matt

I for one am running with the setting Hardware Default, I changed to that setting when it was introduced to try it, although I personally had no problem running the previous setting, and have not changed back.

If you guys are not seeing the problem of the Output format settings not sticking when changed, might this be an OS setting issue?

Thanks
Peter

 
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DMan17

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 09:31:51 am »

Please try setting buffering in Options > Audio > Output mode settings to 'Hardware default'.

Then restart MC and your DAC and test again.

I think it's already set at 'Hardware default' but I'll double check and do a restart anyway.  My DAC has been on for 2 years :)  I'll try a reboot of that too, but would be surprised if it made a difference... willing to try anything.  I won't be able to test and report back for about 12 hours.  Another data point if it helps, I'm playing back a DSD file.  I haven't moved my entire library over to the Mac Mini yet.

I appreciate all the support!  I'm looking forward to hearing about the other Mac Mini installations as well.  Thanks.
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 09:32:56 am »

Just tested output from my mac mini.

Results
Analogue out:
2ch 32bit float at
32 / 44 / 48 / 88 / 96 / all bit perfect

Optical out:
Same as Analogue / all bit perfect

Hdmi out adds:
2ch 24bit integer at
176 and 192  / all bit perfect

Cheers
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DMan17

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 10:07:26 am »

Just tested output from my mac mini.

Results
Analogue out:
2ch 32bit float at
32 / 44 / 48 / 88 / 96 / all bit perfect

Optical out:
Same as Analogue / all bit perfect

Cheers


Did you have to do anything on your Mac to enable other sample rates from the Optical out?  When I look in Settings -> Sound all I can see is a selection box with 2 items.  Optical out and Airport Express (I use to stream to another stereo).  There is nothing I can configure on the Optical out for sample rate/bit depth.
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 10:39:39 am »

Did you have to do anything on your Mac to enable other sample rates from the Optical out?  When I look in Settings -> Sound all I can see is a selection box with 2 items.  Optical out and Airport Express (I use to stream to another stereo).  There is nothing I can configure on the Optical out for sample rate/bit depth.

1)To monitor and verify that MC is Controlling Core Audio:
Go to Utilities / Audio Midi Setup / Audio Devices
Click on Built-in Output - if you are going out the 1/8 analogue/optical jack.

2)in MC under Playing now click on the zone/device you want to configure.
Then go to Tools/Option/Audio
Output mode = Core Audio
Output mode Settings = Device / Built-in Output --- Buffer size = Hardware Default.
click Open Device with exclusive access
Click ok

3)enter > Audio/settings/ DSP & output format
and set it like this pic.

4) this has nothing to do with this but I like to have "Play files from memory" enabled

Now when you play different Sample rates > Audio Midi Setup / Audio Devices / will automatically switch and reflect the change.


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DMan17

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 09:05:03 pm »

1)To monitor and verify that MC is Controlling Core Audio:
Go to Utilities / Audio Midi Setup / Audio Devices
Click on Built-in Output - if you are going out the 1/8 analogue/optical jack.

2)in MC under Playing now click on the zone/device you want to configure.
Then go to Tools/Option/Audio
Output mode = Core Audio
Output mode Settings = Device / Built-in Output --- Buffer size = Hardware Default.
click Open Device with exclusive access
Click ok

3)enter > Audio/settings/ DSP & output format
and set it like this pic.

4) this has nothing to do with this but I like to have "Play files from memory" enabled

Now when you play different Sample rates > Audio Midi Setup / Audio Devices / will automatically switch and reflect the change.


We have a winner.  Thank you very much Bachiano! 

I had everything set this way except
Output mode Settings = Device/Built-in Output.

It was set to
Output mode Settings = default

I think it may be helpful if the Moderators take Bachiano's setting advice and make it a sticky or put it in the FAQ.  Any Mac using the optical out will probably need to make this/these changes. That could save people a lot of time.

Just turned on Play files from memory as well.  Thanks again for the advice.
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Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 03:27:45 am »

Hi Bachiano

I will reply here rather than on the .202 build thread as discussion is not allowed on that thread.

Firstly, I too had Output mode setting = Default - I have changed this to Built in output as you suggest and will test again today. All other settings were as you suggest.

This setting has been set on default since the option was added, I changed to Hardware default from Maximum (power of 2) to test and all seemed well so I left it on the new setting although it was working fine on the original settings.

Do you know if there a preferred setting for these setting when streaming via the DNLA/UPnP server, a quick look seems to suggest they are of no relevance, but would be interested if you know differently.

Peter
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Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 06:58:52 am »

Having carried out further tests I find that the settings in DSP - Output Format are being changed when a file that my Mac cannot play (unsupported sample rate) is encountered regardless of the settings in Output mode; my system works regardless of which settings are chosen there.

My Mac appears to support only 44.1, 48 & 96kHz output (I am using optical out) so when it encounters a file of sample rate 88.2 or 176.4 it plays them at 48kHz; I had set both sample rates to be played at 88.2 on Output format page. Whilst I was wrong in setting 88.2 playback for these sample rates, I had not expected MC to change most of the other sample rates to 48kHz on the Output format page when the program and Mac are capable of playing a subsequent file of say 96kHz at that sample rate.

Strange to a mainly PC user.

Thanks for your help in my understanding what was happening with this.

Peter

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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 07:36:26 am »

Do you know if there a preferred setting for these setting when streaming via the DNLA/UPnP server, a quick look seems to suggest they are of no relevance, but would be interested if you know differently.
Peter

As far as I can tell - Audio/Options is only for connected devices and does not affect anything in Media Network.

Some one please correct me if I'm wrong because I've been trying to find a definitive answer on this for a while.

It would be nice if an admin could clarify.

This is from window side but I think it is the same with our mac version.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=81595.0
-----------------------------
From a previous query of mine.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=81209.msg553112#msg553112

This is what I've settled with on the DNLA side:

Tools/Options/Add or Configure DLNA servers/Audio/
Mode: Specified output format
Format: PCM 24 bit
/Advance = Sample rate same as source.
------------------------------------
The only problem with these settings in Media Network is that there is no option to independently up convert or down convert specified sample rates like you can in Audio/ DSP &audio format…
and since some devices only go up to 192 - then that leaves out anything higher which includes DSD and 352 that need to be down converted to 192.

If you choose 192 under sample rate then MC will down convert everything down to 192 but unfortunately it will also up convert everything up to 192.
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 07:54:06 am »

My Mac appears to support only 44.1, 48 & 96kHz output

This makes no sense to me.
If the mac can do 96 it should also do 88 to a connected device Unless the device does not support 88

What model and year mac are you using? and what are you connecting it to?

Do this test:
Hook up some headphones to the 1/8 jack.
In audio/options/DSP/output format/
Set everything to output 88 and see what happens.

Let us know.
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Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 08:49:13 am »

Hi Bachiano

Set all to 88.2kHz and played a 192 file and output was 48kHz then played a 44.1 file and this was played at 44.1. On checking Output format page again all settings except 44.1 and 48K had been changed to 48K - the 44.1 and 48K were set to No change despite my having set them all to 88.2.

It is the fact that the program is resetting these settings that I find strange, why not down sample the individual file to a playable sample rate but leave all others as set in the Option page?

The device connected to the Mac via optical out is a Naim Audio Dac which is capable of playing all sample rates between 32kHz - 192kHz /32bit and can switch back and forth between varying track sample rates all day long without a problem.

Now as to the Mac, I am using a Macbook Pro that I have been given the try, my son-in-law is trying to convince me they are better than a PC - it's not working - but a mac mini might if it does what I want it to do. I don't therefore know quite how old it is except I clicked on the Apple symbol top left - about this Mac - specifications and a web page opened with a date of mid 2007. Not sure if this accurately relates to this machine as the page had been read over half a million times, but is the best I can offer. The spec is in my signature.

Peter

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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 09:09:31 am »

Go to utilities / audio midi setup / Audio Devices / Built-in Output / click the triangle in Format and see what you get.

In mine I get:
44/48/88/96
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Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 09:27:56 am »

Only 44.1/48/96
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 09:39:48 am »

Oh Oh.  Look what I found.
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2315

under products affected It mentions a (13"mid 2007 macbook) but not a macbook pro.

Symptoms
When connected to the optical digital audio input, 32 kHz (kilohertz) and 88.2 kHz audio input sample rates may not work on Intel-based Macintosh computers. The audio may be damaged or non-existent.

Resolution
Using sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96 kHz when connected to the optical digital audio input may correct this condition.


The Resolution is the stupidest thing I've ever read.
“Doctor, it hurts when I do this,” said the patient.
“Well, then don’t do that,” said the doctor.
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Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2013, 10:13:52 am »

Oh dear, everyone keeps telling me the Mac's "Just work", well as a PC user from the days when PC were first sold, I can confidently say that they "Just don't ". Had my son-in-law not very kindly admittedly, given me this one to try I would not have touched one with a barge pole. So far I see no reason to change my mind on this.

As the kids are at Glastonbury for the week I will have to wait and see what my son-in-law makes of your link when they return.

Thanks for your help. it is most appreciated.

Peter
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DMan17

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2013, 10:28:06 am »

Bachinao, a question about the sample rates you have listed in your screen shot.  Is there a reason why you are downsampling 176.4kHz to 96kHz as opposed to 88.2kHz?  I would expect that since 88.2 is a factor of 176.4 the math would be straight forward and there would be fewer chances to increase downsampling artifacts vs. 96 where the computer needs to do some fancy math to get the data to line up.

Now can we really hear that difference? Do you have any music at 176.4?  Who knows but, if we can be a purist why not  :)

BTW, I've set my above 192kHz to play at 88.2kHz.  The only files I have in that space are DSD.  I've read (but haven't done the math yet to verify) that 88.2kHz is a closer factor to how DSD is processed than 96 or 192.  I think 176.4 is where ideally you want to be if you can play there.... I can't yet.

Thanks again for your help.  It's sounds much better now that I'm not playing everything at 44.1kHz!
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 11:51:59 am »

Bachinao, a question about the sample rates you have listed in your screen shot.  Is there a reason why you are downsampling 176.4kHz to 96kHz as opposed to 88.2kHz?
Thanks again for your help.  It's sounds much better now that I'm not playing everything at 44.1kHz!

No reason.
I don't have any 176 files, but if I did, 88 is where I would put them. Oh and DSD too!
You are very welcome.
Bachiano
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 04:32:30 pm »

The device connected to the Mac via optical out is a Naim Audio Dac which is capable of playing all sample rates between 32kHz - 192kHz /32bit and can switch back and forth between varying track sample rates all day long without a problem.

What is your Naim Dac Model #.
What are the available inputs in your DAC.
There might be a work around that might be better than just trying for 88.
You might be able to get all available sample rates including 176 and 192.
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Peter_RN

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 05:01:40 am »

I have the full width Naim Dac its just known as the Naim Dac, they recently brought out a half width Dac-V1, but that is very recent.

Inputs, BNC coaxial, Optical Toslink. and there are RCA coaxial S/PDIF and RCA Phono. USB is also available, but is intended for memory sticks etc.

My main options as I see them are, buy a Naim server, probably the most sensible idea, use the optical out of a mac, us a PC with a high end sound card or use a USB-S/PDIF converter with either type of computer.

To play files above 96kHz at the moment I can put them on a memory stick and play them from there, as I don't have that many this is fine. Of course, MC will also play them at 96kHz so it works well really.

I also have a Naim NDX renderer so we can also stream via this if we wish.

Peter
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bob

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2013, 09:25:31 am »

As far as I can tell - Audio/Options is only for connected devices and does not affect anything in Media Network.

Some one please correct me if I'm wrong because I've been trying to find a definitive answer on this for a while.

It would be nice if an admin could clarify.
...
You are correct, the Media Network settings and Audio/Options are unrelated.
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Bachiano

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Re: How to change the bitdepth on the MAC version?
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2013, 10:50:38 am »

I have the full width Naim Dac its just known as the Naim Dac, they recently brought out a half width Dac-V1, but that is very recent.
Inputs, BNC coaxial, Optical Toslink. and there are RCA coaxial S/PDIF and RCA Phono. USB is also available, but is intended for memory sticks etc.
Peter
From the Users Manual
SAMPLE RATE
USB: 32kHz to 768kHz, 32bit
S/PDIF: 32kHz to 192kHz, 32bit
Apple portable: 48kHz max

Looks like the highest sample rates you are going to get from the Your Naim Dac is through USB.
Try hooking Macbook > USB > Naim.
User manual does not say it will work but you never know.


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