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[Matt]

The audio path is showing a mix of "adaptive" and "fixed" files even though I've analyzed the entire library.  What could cause some files to show peak level normalize(fixed) and others peak level normalize(adaptive)?  I'm confused, any help is appreciated.

There's a bug when the files have a peak of 0.0.  It will be fixed next build.

[MGD_King]

I've tested Adaptive volume with several albums and mixed playlists. I don't like it because it audibly changes the volume, sometimes halfway into a track.

I've noticed this as well... it reminds me of the days of recording onto a cassette tape from a tape deck that had auto-levels instead of setting whatever level you wanted with a knob (ah, the old days! ). Music would start off too loud and then fade down.

What I've discovered that works decent for me is to add a filter in the Parametric EQ to add +10db to the output while using volume leveling. This seems to compensate for tracks that were mastered in the -14db range all the way to the -4db range without a lot of clipping/flat line overflow. I'll continue experimenting. It's why I upgraded, just to experiment! 

[InflatableMouse]

I've noticed this as well... it reminds me of the days of recording onto a cassette tape from a tape deck that had auto-levels instead of setting whatever level you wanted with a knob (ah, the old days! ). Music would start off too loud and then fade down.

What I've discovered that works decent for me is to add a filter in the Parametric EQ to add +10db to the output while using volume leveling. This seems to compensate for tracks that were mastered in the -14db range all the way to the -4db range without a lot of clipping/flat line overflow. I'll continue experimenting. It's why I upgraded, just to experiment! 

Check the order of DSP items. Where is Adaptive Volume? In my case, Equalizer was below ADaptive volume and caused clipping and since I had clip protection enabled, it audibly turned down the volume.

You can rearrange the items by dragging them; after I dragged Equalizer above Adaptive volume the problem was solved.

[mykillk]

This feature alone sells me on the upgrade. I've spent a lot of time tweaking a third party VST dynamics plugin to try and get this kind of functionality and have never been all that impressed. How I wished for a MC native version. Now there is. Great work guys!

[6233638]

The audio path is showing a mix of "adaptive" and "fixed" files even though I've analyzed the entire library.  What could cause some files to show peak level normalize(fixed) and others peak level normalize(adaptive)?  I'm confused, any help is appreciated.

Do all files have a Peak Level (R128) value?

[N2audio]

The majority do.  I have ~7,500 files and I show 9 that didn't get analyzed due to "error".  I'm still working on the nature of the error since the files appear fine and play normal. 
I ran a smart list of files with 0.0db after I saw Matt's response.  That list was only 62 files.  I have many more files than the 62 that show adaptive mode in the audio path, so I'm not sure if the bug fix that Matt referenced addresses my particular issue.
Thanks for any suggestions.

[MGD_King]

Check the order of DSP items. Where is Adaptive Volume?

Output Format
Volume Leveling
Adaptive Volume
Parametric EQ (when active)

Still has that effect of blast the quiet parts and hurry-up-and-quiet-down the loud parts.

[Hendrik]

I use Adaptive Volume in "Peak Level Normalize" mode, and i never noticed the volume changing mid-playback.
You aren't using "Night Mode", are you? Because that is designed to boost quiet parts and quiet down loud parts, specifically.

[InflatableMouse]

Output Format
Volume Leveling
Adaptive Volume
Parametric EQ (when active)

Still has that effect of blast the quiet parts and hurry-up-and-quiet-down the loud parts.

What is PEQ doing? In my case, the regular equalizer was boosting by +6dB on preamp slider (leftover from the past where everything was too quiet). Adaptive volume takes care of that now so that was causing it to clip. But boosting individual freqs also boost the total of the signal, so that could also cause a clip.

Turns out though I have to eat my own words about the place of the EQ. I tested this again and the order didn't matter for the regular EQ, boosting +6dB while above Adaptive volume also caused a clip. In my defense, this is not what the footnote says in the DSP dialog (ie, processed in order). So I wonder, is that by design or is it a bug?

[Hendrik]

Could be a design limitation, possibly a bug.
Adaptive Volume uses the Peak tags from the audio analysis, however if you boost the audio, those peak values are wrong. Not sure Adaptive Volume can really know that the audio was boosted before, too many factors can influence that, really. Don't boost the audio if you want to use adaptive volume? =)

[InflatableMouse]

Don't boost the audio if you want to use adaptive volume? =)

Yes, of course you're right. Before adaptive volume was introduced (and pre-R128) using RG only, my output using ASIO was always ~6dB lower than with Wasapi so I had a fixed +6dB configured in the old DSP dialog where you would choose track or album mode. When this was changed, RG values were removed and that dialog changed but I didn't immediately reanalyzed everything for use with R128, so I resorted to the preamp slider in the EQ until I was done reanalyzing everything. I tend to forget things like that so it started clipping once everything was done .

[MGD_King]

What is PEQ doing? In my case, the regular equalizer was boosting by +6dB on preamp slider (leftover from the past where everything was too quiet). Adaptive volume takes care of that now so that was causing it to clip. But boosting individual freqs also boost the total of the signal, so that could also cause a clip.

Turns out though I have to eat my own words about the place of the EQ. I tested this again and the order didn't matter for the regular EQ, boosting +6dB while above Adaptive volume also caused a clip. In my defense, this is not what the footnote says in the DSP dialog (ie, processed in order). So I wonder, is that by design or is it a bug?

I have tried it with the PEQ unchecked. It seems to work great for albums in this configuration, but in playlists is when it's most noticeable. And I'm using Peak Level Normalize.

[InflatableMouse]

Keep audio path open while you're playing that playlist (hover your mouse over the DSP button for the popup). This will show exactly what is happening. Under Changes, you should see a number fluctuate if MC is responsible for the volume fluctuations. In my case, it showed 'Adjust volume for clip protection'.

[MGD_King]

I'm at work right now but I will test this out tonight when I get home. I have seen it fluctuate however, especially on a track like Yes' "Close To The Edge" where it starts off really quiet and builds up at the opening. I can't remember what the values are but I'll try again tonight and let you know.

[InflatableMouse]

Try making a screenshot of it and mention which line it is you see fluctuating.

Also, lets not forget that

There's a bug when the files have a peak of 0.0.  It will be fixed next build.

[6233638]

I may have found the bug that was causing this:

• Try enabling Adaptive Volume and Volume Leveling at the same time, then play a track.
• Stop playback, and disable Volume Leveling.
• Adaptive Volume should now work correctly for analyzed files.

[MGD_King]

Try making a screenshot of it and mention which line it is you see fluctuating.

The second line fluctuates. Also, I've noticed that some tracks say fixed while others say adaptive. And they can be on the same album.


This is my audio chain.

I noticed that the sound didn't fluctuate as bad as the night before. Maybe that's due to this:

I may have found the bug that was causing this:

• Try enabling Adaptive Volume and Volume Leveling at the same time, then play a track.
• Stop playback, and disable Volume Leveling.
• Adaptive Volume should now work correctly for analyzed files.

[InflatableMouse]

The second line fluctuates. Also, I've noticed that some tracks say fixed while others say adaptive. And they can be on the same album.

Did you check whether those tracks had a peak of 0,0? That could be the bug Matt spoke about.

If not then maybe its something to do with what 62 found out, I don't know.

[faster]

The second line fluctuates.

Have a look at my post #45, there is a video capture with this behavior
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/80739830/bandicam%202013-08-24%2015-41-50-976.avi

All files are analyzed with the current version of MC 19. the Problem is still there with playlists without peak 0.0 files

[Matt]

All files are analyzed with the current version of MC 19. the Problem is still there with playlists without peak 0.0 files

I believe the fix is in build 19.0.33, which should be public next week.

Thanks.

[faster]

Great, thank you Matt!

[dean70]

Can the initial Analyzing Audio process be run on one machine and restored via Library restore to another? I want to run it on my i5 main system. The AMD HTPC machine is sloooww at analyzing audio.

[jhermosillo]

You are mentioning a Blue light, I just have re-analyzed all my library 40K songs, and have set the volume leveling and the Adaptive Volume to work together, Peak Level Normalize is (Fixed) but cannot see any Blue Light, What do you mean with the blue light, how can I enable it?

Thanks

Jherm

Overview
Adaptive Volume is a system to keep the level of the input signal near full level.  

There are several use-cases where this feature is useful:

• You use Volume Leveling and don't want the volume of everything turned down a lot unless it's actually necessary to level the volume of the current playlist
• You would prefer to run your DAC close to full level on any input (more important for DSD and classical where the signal may never approach full scale)
• You watch movies at night or in a situation where explosions are too loud and dialog is too quiet
• You're trying to get enough volume out of a low power system, like during playback on laptop speakers.

MC18 added an adaptive volume mode available for video playback.  MC19 promotes this system to be available for any media type, and improves it in several important ways.

This screenshot shows Adaptive Volume in MC19 and explains the modes a little bit:


Peak Level Normalize
This mode requires special consideration.  It analyzes the current playlist to find the peak level of the entire playlist by using the values gathered during Audio Analysis.  It also considers the peak level of the entire playlist if Volume Leveling is engaged.  Then, it normalizes the playlist to this peak level.  Since this applies a fixed gain, the blue light will illuminate and Audio Path will say "peak level normalize (fixed)".

If the files being played have not been analyzed using the Analyze Audio tool, the peak level will be learned during playback.  In this mode, Audio Path will report "peak level normalize (adaptive)" and the blue light will not illuminate.  When used in this mode, the first loud part of a movie or song may cause the volume to be turned down.  Once it has turned down, the peak level has effectively been learned and the volume will not be adjusted (unless something even louder happens).

Let's describe a simple example of why this mode might be useful.  If you play Adele's 21 album, a modern best-seller mastered in a modern way, and enable Volume Leveling, it will request that all songs be turned down by 14.4dB.  This is so that if you play something mastered more conservatively, it will match Adele's volume.  However, if you are _only_ playing Adele, you're going to be applying the same -14.4dB to all the songs you hear.  You didn't actually need to turn the music down at all to achieve a level volume.  Peak Level Normalization will understand this and add the 14.4dB back (internally it's smart enough to do nothing instead of doing two offsetting changes).

Said another way, if you use Volume Leveling and Peak Level Normalization, you will get the loudest playback of the current playlist that maintains equal volume between tracks and prevents all clipping.  The volume between tracks in the playlist will be the same, but the volume between different playlists could be different (since each playlist will have a different peak level normalization value).

[6233638]

You are mentioning a Blue light, I just have re-analyzed all my library 40K songs, and have set the volume leveling and the Adaptive Volume to work together, Peak Level Normalize is (Fixed) but cannot see any Blue Light, What do you mean with the blue light, how can I enable it?

You need to be using the default Noire theme, or a theme which supports it:

[jhermosillo]

You need to be using the default Noire theme, or a theme which supports it:

Thanks

[mykillk]

I'm having the same issue with audio analysis not changing the behavior of adaptive volume (I'm using peak normalization mode). I successfully analyzed a video (in MC19), and I enabled the R128 columns in the library to confirm that the file had been tagged with the audio analysis data. It does not have a peak value of 0.0 (the closest it got was -3.0 on the center channel), but the adaptive volume behavior is exactly the same as it was when playing without having run the audio analysis first. The volume boost starts out very high (like +12db) but fairly quickly drops down as new volume peaks are detected, causing noticeable shifts in the volume level. There is only this one file in my library and only one file on the playlist. Volume leveling is not enabled.

Looking forward to the .33 build.

[mykillk]

I'm having the same issue with audio analysis not changing the behavior of adaptive volume (I'm using peak normalization mode). I successfully analyzed a video (in MC19), and I enabled the R128 columns in the library to confirm that the file had been tagged with the audio analysis data. It does not have a peak value of 0.0 (the closest it got was -3.0 on the center channel), but the adaptive volume behavior is exactly the same as it was when playing without having run the audio analysis first. The volume boost starts out very high (like +12db) but fairly quickly drops down as new volume peaks are detected, causing noticeable shifts in the volume level. There is only this one file in my library and only one file on the playlist. Volume leveling is not enabled.

Looking forward to the .33 build.

Then I removed the file from the library, re-imported it, re-ran the audio analysis and now it works as expected. A fixed +2.0db gain from the very beginning...

[mykillk]

Adaptive volume also seems to be effected by other files in the playlist:

- File 1 has a peak volume R128 level of -3.0. When played by itself, adaptive volume adds a fixed boost of +2.0db.
- File 2 has a peak volume R128 level of -2.0. When played by itself, adaptive volume adds a fixed boost of +1.0db.

When both files are on the Playing Now list, playing File 1 now has a fixed boost of +1.0db, but when it was played by itself it had a boost of +2.0db. I thought balancing volume levels across a playlist was the responsibility of the Volume Leveling feature? I do not have the Volume Leveling feature enabled.

EDIT: I re-read Matt's original post and now I see this is intended behavior. My question is, why? In my opinion this should only be the behavior if Volume Leveling is enabled. If Volume Leveling is not enabled, then Adaptive Volume should boost on a per-file basis regardless of what other files are in the playlist. Adjusting on a per-playlist and not a per-track basis seems to totally defeat the point of this plugin...imagine having two files on the playlist, one of which is very loud and the other is very quiet. I'd expect a feature called "adaptive volume" to make the quiet file much louder. Which it would, when played by itself. But due to current design which considers the peak volume at the playlist level, when played in such a playlist the quiet file will receive hardly any boost at all. This seems completely counter-intuitive to the description of "Peak level normalize" given in the plugin which makes no references at all to peak playlist levels.

EDIT 2: I see Matt's response to this in a previous post:

He could always play one track at a time

Seems a rather poor solution... A much better solution, like I mentioned before, would be to make adaptive volume work on a per-file basis when used alone and only consider peak playlist level when enabled in conjunction with volume leveling.

EDIT 3: I think I understand now why this was designed the way it was. It was designed with only music album playlists in mind. So the current behavior does make some sense because it preserves the (often artistically intentional) dynamics in transition from one track to the next. But this ONLY applies to music albums. For other types of playlists such as mixed music playlists or video playlists there is no intentional transition to preserve so the way the plugin is designed makes much less (none, really) sense.

[6233638]

That behavior seems like a bug. I would have to go back and check, but I'm guessing it may have been introduced back when the way that album leveling works was changed. What should be happening:

Adaptive Volume enabled

All tracks are individually adjusted to play back at the maximum level, whether they are part of an album or not. Loudness varies for each track.

Adaptive Volume and Volume Leveling enabled

Volume Leveling is applied, and the playlist is adjusted to play at the maximum level possible. (determined by the track with the highest peak level in the playlist)
Loudness should be equal across each track, but different playlists may have different loudness levels.

Volume Leveling Enabled

Individual tracks are normalized to -23 LUFS.
Albums should have their average level normalized to -23 LUFS. (albums currently use the peak volume, which means they usually play back too quietly - this was a serious regression in build 14)
As long as this provides sufficient headroom (it should in most cases with music) loudness should be equal across all tracks and playlists - you should never have to change the volume control.

Special Cases

Videos always use track-based volume leveling, unless their Media Sub Type is Music Video.
Audio which has a Media Sub Type of Podcast or Radio should always use track-based volume leveling.
There needs to be some way to mark an album as a "Mixtape" to force track-based leveling.
There needs to be some way of reducing the volume level target when -23 LUFS does not provide enough headroom. (typically videos, rather than music) Personally I would like to see this linked to the internal volume control.

[mykillk]

That behavior seems like a bug. I would have to go back and check, but I'm guessing it may have been introduced back when the way that album leveling works was changed. What should be happening:

Adaptive Volume enabled

All tracks are individually adjusted to play back at the maximum level, whether they are part of an album or not. Loudness varies for each track.

Adaptive Volume and Volume Leveling enabled

Volume Leveling is applied, and the playlist is adjusted to play at the maximum level possible. (determined by the track with the highest peak level in the playlist)
Loudness should be equal across each track, but different playlists may have different loudness levels.

Volume Leveling Enabled

Individual tracks are normalized to -23 LUFS.
Albums should have their average level normalized to -23 LUFS. (albums currently use the peak volume, which means they usually play back too quietly - this was a serious regression in build 14)
As long as this provides sufficient headroom (it should in most cases with music) loudness should be equal across all tracks and playlists - you should never have to change the volume control.

I agree 100%. That is exactly how I would expect them to function. You explained it very well.

[DoubtingThomas]

That behavior seems like a bug. I would have to go back and check, but I'm guessing it may have been introduced back when the way that album leveling works was changed. What should be happening:

Adaptive Volume enabled

All tracks are individually adjusted to play back at the maximum level, whether they are part of an album or not. Loudness varies for each track.

Adaptive Volume and Volume Leveling enabled

Volume Leveling is applied, and the playlist is adjusted to play at the maximum level possible. (determined by the track with the highest peak level in the playlist)
Loudness should be equal across each track, but different playlists may have different loudness levels.

Volume Leveling Enabled

Individual tracks are normalized to -23 LUFS.
Albums should have their average level normalized to -23 LUFS. (albums currently use the peak volume, which means they usually play back too quietly - this was a serious regression in build 14)
As long as this provides sufficient headroom (it should in most cases with music) loudness should be equal across all tracks and playlists - you should never have to change the volume control.

To me, using Adaptive Volume (I will always use Volume Leveling) has no value, since it would mean the volume a particular track plays depends on what else is in the current playlist.  So for example, I'm playing PlayingNow... and add more tracks, the volume could change...  My goal is to never have to touch the volume control as albums and tracks change and as I maintain playlists.

[6233638]

To me, using Adaptive Volume (I will always use Volume Leveling) has no value, since it would mean the volume a particular track plays depends on what else is in the current playlist.  So for example, I'm playing PlayingNow... and add more tracks, the volume could change...  My goal is to never have to touch the volume control as albums and tracks change and as I maintain playlists.

I don't use it either. Some people complain that volume leveling is too quiet, so using the two gives you level playback for the current playlist, and makes it as loud as possible.
I'd rather just turn up the volume on my amp and keep it level all the time.

[Matt]

In a coming build:
Changed: Adaptive Volume in 'Peak Level Normalize' mode normalizes on a per-track basis when Volume Leveling is off and on a per-playlist basis when Volume Leveling is on.

[mykillk]

In a coming build:
Changed: Adaptive Volume in 'Peak Level Normalize' mode normalizes on a per-track basis when Volume Leveling is off and on a per-playlist basis when Volume Leveling is on.

Great news Matt. I was waiting off on the MC19 upgrade to see what came of this and now I have no excuse

[fluidz]

Seeing as running Volume levelling + Adaptive Volume together pushes the sound as far as it will go, without clipping, would it make sense to Disable the Volume and use my amp to control the final output? Are there any downsides to lowering the internal with both features enabled? 

 

[6233638]

Seeing as running Volume levelling + Adaptive Volume together pushes the sound as far as it will go, without clipping, would it make sense to Disable the Volume and use my amp to control the final output? Are there any downsides to lowering the internal with both features enabled? 

There are no problems with using the internal control, but I don't see the point in setting up Media Center to play as loud as possible, and then reducing the volume.

Are you sure you don't just want Volume Leveling enabled on its own?

[pluto]

Volume Leveling Enabled
Individual tracks are normalized to -23 LUFS

Would it make sense, while retaining the -23LU target as a default, to permit the actual target loudness to be user defined?

[6233638]

Volume Leveling Enabled
Individual tracks are normalized to -23 LUFS
Would it make sense, while retaining the -23LU target as a default, to permit the actual target loudness to be user defined?

I do think that the target volume should change if Media Center's internal volume control is adjusted. (so that -7 dB would be -30 LUFS for example) This way when you reduce the volume control, you gain additional headroom for volume leveling - which would be useful for video playback.

Using a louder target than -23 LUFS does not provide enough headroom for all tracks to be sufficiently normalized, and is not compliant with the R128 spec.
That's why the recommendation is to enable both adaptive volume (set to peak level normalization) and volume leveling at the same time, if you want to make use of volume leveling but your amplifier can't go loud enough with it enabled.

Having the two enabled like this levels the current playlist, and then increases the volume as much as possible without clipping. Depending on what's playing, this may result in a small increase in volume, or a larger increase in volume compared to using volume leveling on its own. Volume across the current playlist will be level, but the trade-off is that volume will vary as the playlist is changed.

[stewart_pk]

Hey, is there a way that Adaptive volume can be enabled automatically for video playback only?
If not is it possible for this feature to be added please?

[Hendrik]

Hey, is there a way that Adaptive volume can be enabled automatically for video playback only?
If not is it possible for this feature to be added please?

You'll have to create two zones, and then use the Zone Switch feature to switch between the zones for audio and video - that way you can have separate configuration.

[stewart_pk]

Thanks, although from memory this would not be required (creating 2 zones) with the equivalent/similar Adaptive Volume functionality in version 18.
In version 18 Adaptive Volume was only functional when playing video files.

[N2audio]

I've noticed adaptive volume with volume leveling handles "Play Doctor" playlists differently than user created playlists.  Is this normal?  What I've seen is a play doctor playlist created in a blank pane on start up would use a per track peak level evaluation(adaptive) rather than per playlist evaluation(fixed).  If you close MC and re-open the user interface then start playing a selection from the play doctor playlist, MC will use a per playlist peak level evaluation(fixed).  I'm using build 38....other playlist conform to the per playlist evaluation as expected.
Anyone else notice this?

[6233638]

I've noticed adaptive volume with volume leveling handles "Play Doctor" playlists differently than user created playlists.  Is this normal?  What I've seen is a play doctor playlist created in a blank pane on start up would use a per track peak level evaluation(adaptive) rather than per playlist evaluation(fixed).  If you close MC and re-open the user interface then start playing a selection from the play doctor playlist, MC will use a per playlist peak level evaluation(fixed).  I'm using build 38....other playlist conform to the per playlist evaluation as expected.
Anyone else notice this?

I would not recommend enabling both these options when using Play Doctor, because its playlist is dynamic. Use one or the other.

[N2audio]

I would not recommend enabling both these options when using Play Doctor, because its playlist is dynamic. Use one or the other.

Thanks.

[mykillk]

A feature I'd like to see added is allowing the user to specify the max boost. This would be especially helpful for the Night Mode setting.

Sometimes, the +20db max boost is too much. Background noise can get very loud and noticeable.

Perhaps make +20 the highest allowed, but it would be useful to allow the user to specify any max boost between 1-20db.

[amiti]

1. It would be better if adaptive volume goal would be -0.2db and not 0db (a slightly less than maximum possible gain addition without clipping).As all audio is now dithered to the output bitdepth format , and dither noise can add a slight boost to gain , it is possible to end up with clipping audio after all.

2. In DSP chain appear two lines : one for volume leveling and the other for adaptive volume. Are these calculated in two stages or just appear this way for readability? Wouldn't it be better for processing audio in minimum possible stages  , ie to join the 2 stages into one processing after calculating the result?

3. When converting audio format , is adaptive volume calculated correctly as in regular playback?

[Matt]

1. It would be better if adaptive volume goal would be -0.2db and not 0db (a slightly less than maximum possible gain addition without clipping).As all audio is now dithered to the output bitdepth format , and dither noise can add a slight boost to gain , it is possible to end up with clipping audio after all.

Volume Leveling in MC uses -1.0dB True Peak as a maximum.

Even with Volume Leveling disabled, dither won't cause a clip in JRiver.

2. In DSP chain appear two lines : one for volume leveling and the other for adaptive volume. Are these calculated in two stages or just appear this way for readability? Wouldn't it be better for processing audio in minimum possible stages  , ie to join the 2 stages into one processing after calculating the result?

When possible, all fixed gains are applied in one stage (using SSE acceleration).

With regards to audio quality, it doesn't matter if you do lots of little changes or one big change due to JRiver's 64-bit precision.  Proof here.

[Domi]

As volume leveling is available for in DLNA server configuration, can we expect to get adaptive volume available in this DLNA server configuration?

For my part I'm using DLNA server of JRiver MC 19 to play music on my Pure Evoke F4 radio but when I activate adaptive volume music sound too low on this radio.
Volume is OK when I is not activated. Only non compressed/expanded tracks are sounding too low.
I think that the possibility to boost the sound using DLNA server of JRiver could be useful.

[chug]

Is there anyway you could get the nightmode to come on and go off automatically at set times?? Or setup a keyboard shortcut?

[aung]

Is it possible to include the option of disabling the album feature completely, as it was on previous versions? My album tag has nothing to do with a real album.
What I want Is volume levelling according to analysis and boost with adaptive volume, but without any influence of the album name.