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[JimH]

Welcome to the forum.  ASIO is a driver normally supplied by the manufacturer (Teac).  Maybe you have the wrong driver?

The wiki has a topic called "DSD format".

64 bit Windows is not required.

[monometer]

hi, thank you for your fast answer ,  I use the latest MC version 19.067 with windows vista ultimate 32bit  SP2 4Go RAM Intel Core 2 CPU 6600 @ 2,4Ghz , i have configured MC  as this

TEAC USB AUDIO DEVICE WASAPI
2x DoP DSD Capable DAC
Bitstream Custom Dop 1.0

THe files 44.1Khz upsampled to DSD128 are hashed or cut  every half a second or randomly  (forgive my bad english) but my TEAC UD-501 display correctly  DoP DSD 5.6Mhz. but sound isn't listenable.

i 've checked the peak monitoring it runs from 10% to 85%, maybe it is the intel CPU not fast enough.?
Is there a good combination of ASIO, WASAPI, DIRECT,KERNEL  driver ( mine is TEAC ver. 1.0) and DoP settings you are aware of?.

Thank you
Best regards.

[monometer]

Hi again I solved the pb i've switched to my Mac Pro and test MC 19.100  2XDSD upsampling works like a charm...
Best.

[David R. Williams]

I was messing around with outputting double DSD to my Teac UD-501 and was running into a problem with frequent drop outs when playing files with higher than 44.1khz sample rates, and wanted to share my findings as it may help others with similar problems.

To make a long story short, the drop outs were the result of the DSD encoder - which is evidently being a single-threaded task which will only run on a single core - hitting 100% utilization of one of the four cores of my (re-purposed) Q6600 processor.

With 44.1khz files there were no drop outs as the load on the single core running the encoder wouldn't hit 100%, but with any file with a higher sample rate the increased processor load required by the encoder led to frequent drop outs which were identically timed with the single core hitting 100% utilization.

Applying a slight overclock to my processor provided enough extra single-core processing capacity so that my system is now running double DSD just fine, so if you're running into a problem with this, it's likely the result of your processor not having enough single core power to convert your files on-the-fly.

[6233638]

It might be useful if you could post your JRMark score (Help → Benchmark…) so we have a better idea of what is required for DSD Encoding.

[David R. Williams]

You bet...quad core Intel Q6600:

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 5.854 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 3.659 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 2.960 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.872 seconds
Score: 1325

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 0.436 seconds
    Flood filling... 1.400 seconds
    Direct copying... 2.124 seconds
    Small renders... 3.735 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 2.788 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 1.611 seconds
Score: 1819

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.599 seconds
    Populate database... 2.734 seconds
    Save database... 0.284 seconds
    Reload database... 0.087 seconds
    Search database... 2.377 seconds
    Sort database... 2.667 seconds
    Group database... 1.545 seconds
Score: 2089

JRMark (version 19.0.104): 1744

[JimH]

Not a very strong machine.  Newer i7 based machines are around 5000.

[InflatableMouse]

IIRC Matt once estimated the minimum JR score for real time DSD output to be around the 2500 mark, but I can't find his post anymore.

[springtian]

this is absolutely a great feature!

[David R. Williams]

Not a very strong machine.  Newer i7 based machines are around 5000.

Agreed - it's a 7-year old, then state-of-the-art, Core 2 Quad that was used for image processing and has now been re-purposed into a dedicated media server after it's replacement as our imaging system by an i7.

I found it interesting than when MC is running the benchmark, this quad core processor is so lightly utilized that it doesn't even bump the CPU out of the Intel Speed Step power saving mode (nor does the single threaded DSD encoder, for that matter) so the benchmark is only showing 60% of the capability of each core and the DSD encoder is only seeing 60% of the capacity of the single core unless Speed Step is manually disabled.

I posted to let others know that if they're running into performance problems with DSD encoding on an older system, that even if the system is running at a relatively low overall processor utilization of ~25 - 30% while encoding, if their drop outs are taking place with 100% utilization spikes on a single core, they may be able to fix the problem by bumping their single-core performance.

Cheers!

[InflatableMouse]

I found it interesting than when MC is running the benchmark, this quad core processor is so lightly utilized that it doesn't even bump the CPU out of the Intel Speed Step power saving mode (nor does the single threaded DSD encoder, for that matter) so the benchmark is only showing 60% of the capability of each core and the DSD encoder is only seeing 60% of the capacity of the single core unless Speed Step is manually disabled.

That doesn't sound correct. The very instant I run the benchmark my CPU jumps from 1.6 to 3.4.

You mentioned you overclocked. Did you change any other settings? Maybe you could record your current settings and reset to optimized defaults.

Or,

try disabling speedstep entirely. Rerun the benchmark and check how DSD output works.

Honestly I think that score was a little too low for your cpu and thinking about it, I think it should do dsd output just fine.

[David R. Williams]

Yes, there does seem to be something strange happening as no matter what settings I use in BIOS - defaults or otherwise - as long as SpeedStep is enabled the ĮPU ratio won't jump from 6 to 9 as it should when it hits either the JR MC benchmark or DSD encoding.  It does increase to 9 for other loads, just not for either the JR MC19 benchmark or encoding tasks.

With SpeedStep disabled and the processor running at stock clock speed, the benchmark result is much improved and the resulting single-thread performance is more than sufficient to run double DSD encoding without any 100% single thread peaks - it max's out at about 85% on the single core for a 24/192 file which appears to be the heaviest encoder load.

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.686 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.938 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 2.389 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.504 seconds
Score: 1650

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 0.361 seconds
    Flood filling... 1.441 seconds
    Direct copying... 2.144 seconds
    Small renders... 2.981 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 2.264 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 1.304 seconds
Score: 2096

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.462 seconds
    Populate database... 2.229 seconds
    Save database... 0.231 seconds
    Reload database... 0.071 seconds
    Search database... 1.986 seconds
    Sort database... 2.163 seconds
    Group database... 1.281 seconds
Score: 2552

JRMark (version 19.0.108): 2099

[InflatableMouse]

That looks better indeed.

Honestly I'm not sure why that happens on your pc, I don't think its supposed to stay low with speedstep enabled. Maybe you can search some other forums for similar problems.

[David R. Williams]

This'll probably put all questions to rest, but this re-purposed system is running Vista which doesn't seem to make very good use of SpeedStep.  If I turn off SpeedStep and leave C1E state function turned on, the system now jumps between 6x and 9x multipliers (no scaling to intermediate steps, as SpeedStep is supposed to do), but it's running much better now.

[InflatableMouse]

Time to upgrade to Windows 7

[6233638]

I've actually seen much better power state management on Windows 8 than Windows 7. It seems to be far quicker at moving up to the highest power state and back down when it's no longer needed.

[David R. Williams]

Time to upgrade to Windows 7

This is a re-purposed machine that sits and runs Media Centre and would have little/no benefit from upgrading to W7 - I'd far rather put the funds into media than Microsoft.

[rdsu]

Is there a matematical way to convert PCM to DSD?

I mean, without losing anything from the PCM source?

[thediscman]

Is there a matematical way to convert PCM to DSD?

I mean, without losing anything from the PCM source?

Upconversion from PCM to DSD involves interpolating data to create a higher resolution. It doesn't add sound that wasn't there before but, done properly, it shouldn't lose anything from the PCM source either.

The benefit is that will allow a DAC that excels at DSD decoding to perform at its best.

Why do you belief that PCM to DSD conversion loses anything from the PCM source?

[rdsu]

Why do you belief that PCM to DSD conversion loses anything from the PCM source?

Larry Ho, from Light Harmonic, said about the new PS Audio DirectStream DAC:

Convert everything to DSD? Sounds interesting but I need to point out one simple fact:

The reason Da Vinci Dual DAC use TWO engines to deal with PCM and DSD is because --
There is NO lossless conversion between DSD and PCM mathematically. Period.

So when you convert every PCM into DSD, you lost something, no matter how many times you do up-sampling.

[thediscman]

Will it only be limited to DSD128??

Can it later be changed to DSD256 Please?  There are some DACs like the exaSound e20, YuLong DA8 and Antelpe Audio Zodiac Platinum that can do DSD256. I know there are very few recordings done in DSD256 but support for upsampling to DSD256 would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

I second this request - DSD256 would be very desirable!

I third this request! I would very much like to have DSD256 upsampling.

[wawaron]

HI, I've been trying to output DSD files and am getting no sound but a message. "Check DSP audio" My DAC is a LH Labs Geek Out 450. My computer is an  Intel i5 running 4 G DDR ram. What changes must be made to JRiver MC? I tried a few changes and only got white noise. I'd like to run all audio in DSD to make it simple.  I downloaded Just Listen files in DSD format wanted to know what all the fuss is about.

I'm using ASIO direct.

[thediscman]

When using real-time DSD output, if the source file's sample rate changes, JRiver stops and restarts... something (pardon my ignorance of the techincal details) internally.

This stopping and restarting generates an audible click or popping sound on every DAC I've tried (Schiit Loki, Auralic Vega, Lamipzator DSD, Matrix Sabre). Depending on the DAC, this sound can be a mild annoyance or worse.

Given that the output rate is fixed (1xDSD or 2xDSD), is it possible for JRiver to mask this process by sending out a constant "silent" signal to the DAC during the transition so that the DAC doesn't have to stop and restart along with JRiver?

I would appreciate that very much.

Thanks!

[Matt]

When using real-time DSD output, if the source file's sample rate changes, JRiver stops and restarts... something (pardon my ignorance of the techincal details) internally.

This stopping and restarting generates an audible click or popping sound on every DAC I've tried (Schiit Loki, Auralic Vega, Lamipzator DSD, Matrix Sabre). Depending on the DAC, this sound can be a mild annoyance or worse.

Given that the output rate is fixed (1xDSD or 2xDSD), is it possible for JRiver to mask this process by sending out a constant "silent" signal to the DAC during the transition so that the DAC doesn't have to stop and restart along with JRiver?

I would appreciate that very much.

Thanks!

The issue is that changing input sample rates requires rebuilding the encoder so the device lock is lost.  It would be tricky to avoid that.

[thediscman]

The issue is that changing input sample rates requires rebuilding the encoder so the device lock is lost.  It would be tricky to avoid that.

But since there is no sound while it's being rebuilt, is it possible to send out some kind of generic silent/zero amplitude/all zeros (again forgive my lack of the right technical jargon) signal at either DSD64 or DSD128 for the brief moment while it's happening?

It would act to maintain the lock to the external device while JRiver rebuilds the encoder.

Thanks

[6233638]

In MC19 the next track seems to be queued up about 10-20s before the current track finishes.
Would it not be possible to do it sooner so that there is a seamless transition, or as thediscman suggests, play DSD silence while MC is working on the conversion to prevent the connection to the DAC being broken?
After all, the DAC itself is only receiving a single sample rate, even if the input rate is changing.
 

[wawaron]

Hi, I wrote a question on June 13 and have not received a response yet. I've tried playing DSD files through MC 19. I'm using a LHLabs Geek Out DAC and only got noise once and total silence apart from that. I set the Output Encoding as outlined at the top of page 1 of this post. I keep getting a message that says the Geek Out cannot play "64 bit A 705.6 kHz for DSD 2x". Am I missing something in the set up or is there a step that I am omitting?
I'd like to hear for myself what all the hoopla is about DSD. My files are all in FLAC except for about 5 that I downloaded in DSD.

Help would be appreciated and welcomed. I am not a computer nerd so in simple step by step instructions please.

[Matt]

Hi, I wrote a question on June 13 and have not received a response yet. I've tried playing DSD files through MC 19. I'm using a LHLabs Geek Out DAC and only got noise once and total silence apart from that. I set the Output Encoding as outlined at the top of page 1 of this post. I keep getting a message that says the Geek Out cannot play "64 bit A 705.6 kHz for DSD 2x". Am I missing something in the set up or is there a step that I am omitting?

Try 1xDSD instead of 2xDSD.  It'll play at 352 kHz.

[wawaron]

Thanks for reply. I did not convert any of my FLAC files. I downloaded a few DSD files from the Net and tried those with no success. 1) Do I have to convert my FLAC files to DSD before playing them? 2) I thought MC converted the FLAC files on the fly? 3) Instructions are lacking, too much is taken for granted. 4) Is there a section in MC that gives clear and step by step instructions on something like this or is it only through the Forum that we get directions??? 5) Not all Forum users are computer literate to that degree, I'm a proof of that. I've repeated it before and will repeat again I need step by step instructions about doing this.
I'll try your suggestions and see what happens.

Thanks

[wawaron]

I've tried all the suggestions that I've received and still no DSD play back. I enabled DSD changed the the Output Format and the rest nothing seems to work. Do I need to configure a plu-In as on DSP Studio bottom left hand corner? Also when the changes are made do they have to be made each time I time on MC? Right now after all as failed I turn off MC and when I turn it back on all my old settings are there. I don't need to remove the attempt for DSD all as been removed, is the normal??
Is DSD play back that mnuch of an improvement over FLAC?? Is it worth all that I'm trying to do? I guess hearing the difference between DSD and FLAC will tell me if ever I get it to work.

[Matt]

I've tried all the suggestions that I've received and still no DSD play back. I enabled DSD changed the the Output Format and the rest nothing seems to work. Do I need to configure a plu-In as on DSP Studio bottom left hand corner? Also when the changes are made do they have to be made each time I time on MC? Right now after all as failed I turn off MC and when I turn it back on all my old settings are there. I don't need to remove the attempt for DSD all as been removed, is the normal??
Is DSD play back that mnuch of an improvement over FLAC?? Is it worth all that I'm trying to do? I guess hearing the difference between DSD and FLAC will tell me if ever I get it to work.

If DSD output doesn't work in DSP Studio > Output Format, I don't know.  It's possible your DAC requires a different format than we provide.

[wawaron]

Thanks finally for responding. I`ve been assured by LHLabs that the Geek Out should work with MC.   Is it normal that the settings refer back back to the default settings once I close JR. The settings that I inputted to get DSD are no longer there but my originals settings are there?? If  I ever get DSD to work I`d like to keep those settings seeing as that is the highest resolution. Why do they return to my pre DSD attempts?? I have the latest JR version.
Am I forgetting a step in the process to get DSD to play. I printed the directions from the first page of this post. Do I need to convert the files from FLAC to DSD before??

[jhwalker]

Thanks finally for responding. I`ve been assured by LHLabs that the Geek Out should work with MC.   Is it normal that the settings refer back back to the default settings once I close JR. The settings that I inputted to get DSD are no longer there but my originals settings are there?? If  I ever get DSD to work I`d like to keep those settings seeing as that is the highest resolution. Why do they return to my pre DSD attempts?? I have the latest JR version.
Am I forgetting a step in the process to get DSD to play. I printed the directions from the first page of this post. Do I need to convert the files from FLAC to DSD before??

I assure you, DSD real-time output works just fine in both JRiver Media Center for Windows and Mac with the GeekOut.  Literally all you do is select the device (on Mac, it's "GeekOut HD Audio IV0"), select Output Encoding as 2xDSD, and click "Play".  Don't know why it's not working for you

Just to be clear, did you install the drivers needed for Windows?  On Mac, there is no need for separate drivers, but under Windows you must install the drivers provided from the website.

[wawaron]

The drivers are ASIO v.2.2 I believe were installed with the Geek Out. It plays all other resolution except DSD. Why also don't my new settings stay when I close JR??   Is there another driver to install? I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.

Matt on June 21 or 22 your answer was to run at 1xDSD instead of 2xDSD but that is not an option in the DSP box.

[JIMV]

I am really confused....here is my issue. I am using the latest version of MC19. I am using an iFi iDSD, When I open DSP studio I do not see the 'output encoding' box and options. It goes straight from 'output format' to 'sample rate'....I can play DSD files but the DAC advises I not getting playback in DSD...what am I doing wrong. What do I have set wrong??

[JimH]

The first post in this topic has some instructions:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82074.0

[JIMV]

Alas, I am not being clear...My DSP studio screen has a box for 'output format' and under that it only has a 'sample rate' option....there is no 'output encoding' and nothing to select. I get music, just nothing is seen as DSD

[JimH]

Here's a screenshot.

[JimH]

Maybe you're bitstreaming?  If so, MC doesn't convert.

[JIMV]

I decided to start anew. I reloaded the iDSD drivers, restarted the computer, and opened MC19 and the missing options have appeared. The DAC is now advising it is playing DSD...

[Esprit]

Can JR19 convert a DSD64 source in DSD128?

[Hendrik]

Can JR19 convert a DSD64 source in DSD128?

It can, but it converts to PCM first.

[blues 66]

   Hi , i am a new in writing , i have the version 19 of jriver ,.
With my DAC antiquated , hee ee ee ! I can hear the native file in DSD
DAC and this : Perpetual technologies PA-3 * PA1 power supply * P3B from the DAC esco in Coax , and i'm in the key of interfacing  M2Tech Rev 1 , use Wasapi

thanks

[darkheart]

I tried to make this work in my setup, but it seems not possible. I'm using JRiver's DSP for 8 channel crossover and my output is "2 channels (inside 7.1 channel container)". If I change output encoding, the channel dropdown is disabled and it changes to "2 channels (stereo)". Even if I play DSD files, they all are converted to PCM. My DAC is Exasound e28.

Is it possible to play DSD files in my setup?

[Matt]

I tried to make this work in my setup, but it seems not possible. I'm using JRiver's DSP for 8 channel crossover and my output is "2 channels (inside 7.1 channel container)". If I change output encoding, the channel dropdown is disabled and it changes to "2 channels (stereo)". Even if I play DSD files, they all are converted to PCM. My DAC is Exasound e28.

Is it possible to play DSD files in my setup?

An Exasound e28 should play DSD.  What if you pick Options > Audio > Bitstreaming > DSD?  That will send the DSD file as-is to the DAC.

[darkheart]

Sure it works - sound goes unfiltered to my midrange drivers (left and right channels), but then I can't use DSP to send signal to other channels and make crossover filters. I need DSD output after DSP processing for all 8 channels. Is it possible with MC19 or MC20?

[Matt]

Sure it works - sound goes unfiltered to my midrange drivers (left and right channels), but then I can't use DSP to send signal to other channels and make crossover filters. I need DSD output after DSP processing for all 8 channels. Is it possible with MC19 or MC20?

Yes.  Pick DSD from DSP Studio > Output Format > Output Encoding.

[darkheart]

Doesn't work. As I wrote, if I change output encoding, the channel dropdown box becomes inactive and it's value changes from "2 channels (inside 7.1 channel container)" to "2 channels (stereo)" and the sound goes only to 2 channels, and I can't change it back, because the channel dropdown is disabled.

[Matt]

It's true that DSD encoding is 2 channel only.

[darkheart]

Could you change it, please, in near future so I can use it for all my 8 channels?