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Author Topic: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours [Solved]  (Read 41610 times)

jmone

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Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours [Solved]
« on: October 31, 2013, 05:51:48 pm »

Odd Q - I've not seen this before on my PC's but I've got one (my main) PC that post going to Win 8.1 it is nice and responsive after a reboot but gets progressively slower to the point of freezing over time (typically a day or so), eg in IE navigating between tabs starts to get unresponsive and the mouse movements become jerky.  I thought it was issues with the latest NVidia drivers (as I kept getting windows msg saying it and stopped and was restarted all the time but on the last few releases I've not seen this).  I'm also not seeing any issues on the other three Win8 PC's .....

Thanks
Nathan
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 06:42:30 pm »

I would open Task Manager and leave it open so I could watch what was consuming cpu and/or memory over time.
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 07:02:10 pm »

Thanks - That's the odd thing - CPU and Mem looks normal but I'll keep an eye on it.
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2013, 05:40:04 pm »

Removing all the ASUS little "Windows Processes" and an virtual drive mgr called "IMDISK" seems to have fixed (most) of the incremental sluggishness.
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mwillems

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 09:44:57 am »

Odd Q - I've not seen this before on my PC's but I've got one (my main) PC that post going to Win 8.1 it is nice and responsive after a reboot but gets progressively slower to the point of freezing over time (typically a day or so), eg in IE navigating between tabs starts to get unresponsive and the mouse movements become jerky.  I thought it was issues with the latest NVidia drivers (as I kept getting windows msg saying it and stopped and was restarted all the time but on the last few releases I've not seen this).  I'm also not seeing any issues on the other three Win8 PC's .....

Thanks
Nathan

If you're running a 400 or 500 series nvidia card there is a known bug that affects some systems in NVidia driver versions after 314.22.  It manifests as mouse slowing and then total system freeze.  It doesn't seem to affect all systems, but it definitely affected mine (I'd get exactly what you're describing, gradual mouse slowing then system freeze)

It sounds like you may have found a fix for your specific problem, but if it comes back/doesn't go away and you have one of the affected cards, I'd look into rolling back to 314.22 until they get this sorted out.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/621899/geforce-drivers/desktop-internet-browser-freeze-or-tdr-thread-w-geforce-460-560-gpus-updated-10-29-13-see-page-17-/
[It's not limited to 460/560's as the thread title suggests, if you read through the thread folks are experiencing it with almost all 400 and 500 series card numbers, and I had it with a 550Ti]
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 06:59:02 pm »

Thanks and - Yup I still have the problem (though it was taking a bit more time to manifest itself) and a 550Ti as well.  I also saw that IE11 was eating over 1GB of mem (and keeps growing) so for now I'm trying Chrome instead.  If fails to make a difference I'll rollback the nvidia driver as you suggest and see how that goes (one thing at a time to try to isolate the issue).
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mwillems

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 07:12:38 pm »

Thanks and - Yup I still have the problem (though it was taking a bit more time to manifest itself) and a 550Ti as well.  I also saw that IE11 was eating over 1GB of mem (and keeps growing) so for now I'm trying Chrome instead.  If fails to make a difference I'll rollback the nvidia driver as you suggest and see how that goes (one thing at a time to try to isolate the issue).

Part of the problem with the new drivers are that they nerf hardware acceleration in browsers.  Folks thought it was firefox at first, but eventually they realized it was NVidia's issue.  Rolling back to 314.22 seems to cure it for everyone.  Try turning off hardware acceleration in your browser and see if that helps.  It helped a little for me, but I still had instability until I rolled back. 
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 09:48:54 pm »

So is it all nvidia generations or are the 6 and 7 series OK (I need to upgrade my 550ti anyway)?
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 10:00:08 pm »

I've not experienced this at all with my GTX570. Have you tried the latest drivers yet? (331.82 WHQL)
EDIT: Sounds like the problem is specific to a few cards rather than all the 500 series?
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2013, 10:55:02 pm »

Yeah in the problem thread nvidia was asking people to send them their cards!  How bizarre.  Seems to be related to HW Acceleration in Browsers....
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mwillems

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 06:56:14 am »

So is it all nvidia generations or are the 6 and 7 series OK (I need to upgrade my 550ti anyway)?

I gave up and upgraded to a 660Ti a week ago, and now have no problems (so far) with current drivers.  So I won't be able to test the patch  ::)

I've not experienced this at all with my GTX570. Have you tried the latest drivers yet? (331.82 WHQL)
EDIT: Sounds like the problem is specific to a few cards rather than all the 500 series?

I've seen every 400 and 500 series card mentioned in the threads somewhere (including the 570GTX), but not all systems with 400 and 500 series cards are affected for whatever reason (or perhaps not all models of 400 or 500 series cards).
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 11:22:50 pm »

FWIW... I've had mouse issues with Windows 8.1 as well.  There have been documented issues in a number of places.  Microsoft says (in that KB article):

Quote
This issue occurs because Windows 8.1 introduced changes to mouse input processing for low latency interaction scenarios. Therefore, games respond to mouse inputs differently in Windows 8.1 than in previous versions of Windows.

I think it impacts more than just games, and it probably isn't Nvidia's "fault" but a combination of inexperience with the new changes and bugs in the API.  I'm not running an Nvidia card, and I've seen:

* Random, and unexplained mouse tracking issues when crossing monitor boundaries.  It works right most of the time, but I have absolutely seen the mouse "jump" vertically at the border of my monitors (by a fair margin), while the monitors are perfectly aligned.  I suspected this was due to bugs in DisplayFusion at first, but I was able to replicate it on a clean install of Windows 8.1 without anything else added.

* Other less easy to define mouse tracking issues (cursor "skipping", buttons animating as though they've been clicked, but not activating, and other erratic behavior, particularly in Metro).  This is not common, but I have seen it.

* It doesn't play nice with Logitech's fancy drivers, particularly their smoothscroll support.  Metro applications scroll themselves, usually very slowly as though the mouse is sliding (but sometimes very quickly and erratically).  Disabling the Logitech smooth scrolling feature globally solves this (and that feature is dumb and adds plugins to all your browsers so good riddance).

* Installing TightVNC's Mirror Driver can be disastrous.  I've had this cause Windows to stop responding to mouse input altogether, persisting across reboots.  It worked fine for a while after I installed it, and after a reboot, but after it had gone to sleep (when I went to sleep) the next morning my mouse no longer worked.  I could open the Device Manager (using VNC and a keyboard to drive, since my mouse wouldn't work), and see the mouse, but unplugging it and replugging it, rebooting, nothing would make it come back.  Removing the Mirror Driver fixed it.

The mirror driver worked fine on Windows 8.

* Games have trouble.  Some of these issues have been fixed, but it looks like Microsoft is doing it per-game, custom style somehow.  Hard coding in workarounds seems bad and difficult to scale.  I'm not sure what is going on here, but it seems kind of widespread.

* Installing ASUS's Motherboard Suite is fraught with peril.  If you install any of their USB3 utilities that come on the disc or are available at their website (unless they've updated them in the past two weeks or so), you are hosed.  On next boot, you will have no USB support of any kind (the root hubs fail to load in Device Manager).  Windows "otherwise" works fine, but you can't do anything.  To get going again, you have to boot using a PS2 device and use that to open the Add/Remove Programs and remove the entire AI Suite (or at least all the components that, even obliquely, reference USB).

Or, have some kind of remote desktop application installed and set up, of course.

* My ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe has been particularly troublesome, because it has no PS2 ports.  When this happened to me, I was nearly done with my clean install (hours later).  Everything was installed.  MC was up and running.  SageTV was migrated over.  Adobe's Creative Suites were installed.  I had Macrium installed (but hadn't quite made an image yet, which was dumb, but I was on a roll).  Unfortunately, I hadn't installed a VNC server yet and didn't turn on the built-in remote desktop (because I use a VNC server to avoid having the local account logged out when I remote in).  I'd also installed TeamViewer but I use that to remote-support my parents and friends, and don't run it all the time as a server, so it wasn't set to launch on bootup.

I was installing the AI Suite because I wanted to apply a bios update to my motherboard, and it was one of the last tasks on my list.  Pretty much randomly, I was going to do TightVNC next, which would have saved me if I'd done it in reverse.  The plan was to install those two things, then do the BIOS update, and then go to bed.  I almost didn't install the USB Boost thing, because motherboard "enhancers" like this are usually crappy.  But Ian Cutress at AnandTech checked out USB 3.0 Boost when it came out and it did make a measurable difference.  I didn't know that the changes ASUS made were integrated into 8.1 automatically, and incompatible with the way ASUS was doing it.  By the way, it isn't just the USB 3.0 Boost features either.  My motherboard also had some USB Power doohickey that let you charge an iPad (give the full power) via your USB ports, which is a useful feature, but that caused my system to be borked too in later testing.

Apparently some people have had success booting to safe mode and removing them.  I did not, and still had no mouse or keyboard in Safe Mode.  I could have probably beaten it into submission via booting to a command line, but I was going to have to remove half-100 registry keys, none of which I had super-reliable references for, and delete a bunch of files out of system directories.  And, of course, the idea of clean installing was to clean up cruft when I'd done "surgery" on the system in the past.

It sucked.  I ended up nuking it and starting over.

Sidebar: Booting to safe mode in Windows 8 is kind of a pain in the butt if you can't enable it from within a running, working, booted system (which seems like it defeats the purpose).  The pound F8 like a monkey method is now useless.  It isn't gone, but they've removed the delay there to make the systems boot quicker, and you need to have ultra-human reflexes to get the timing right between when the BIOS loading finishes, and when booting Windows begins.  I tried about 30-40 times, and got nowhere.  You can make a recovery key if you have the forethought to do it ahead of time.  Unfortunately, I didn't, of course.  I managed to make one finally, but that ended up being a hassle because my HTPC's recovery USB didn't work at first because of fiddly EFI vs MBR differences.  And, then I get into Safe Mode and it didn't work.  Sigh.

Overall, I like Windows 8.1 pretty well.  Once you get it sorted out and don't install any "bad software" I've not had many problems (other than the occasional erratic mouse movements, but this is minor and rare).  The changes Microsoft made in the input support are quite possibly completely necessary (and long-overdue), or they might have been harebrained and scrambling to fix their High DPI support because of "retina" competitive pressure from Google and Apple.  I don't know, but something is different, and it seems like it is fussy with a bunch of software (and some on it's own).
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mwillems

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2013, 06:38:41 am »

I think it impacts more than just games, and it probably isn't Nvidia's "fault" but a combination of inexperience with the new changes and bugs in the API.  I'm not running an Nvidia card, and I've seen:

Glynor: you raise a lot of good points, but in my case the mouse flakiness leading to hard crashes/freezes at random intervals was happening on Windows 7, and not in video games (mostly in browsers).  My PC was basically unusable, and all issues vanished instantly on rolling back the drivers.  There's been some talk that the issues related to a recent windows update, but, the Nvidia drivers have been/were broken for almost 8 months across windows OS's (assuming they're even fixed now).  It took them months to even recognize that there was a problem, so there was no way to know why my system was crashing/freezing every hour or so.  I spent several days taking apart my system and troubleshooting before finding a user thread about it.

I'm happy to call this one (in my system anyway) entirely Nvidia's fault; it was a serious customer support failure.  I still upgraded to another NVidia card because I like the company, don't mistake me, I just think this was one of their lower points.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2013, 09:22:59 am »

I've never been a big fan of Nvidia's driver support.  It is the main reason I'm running AMD cards in most of my systems.
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mwillems

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2013, 09:51:54 am »

I've never been a big fan of Nvidia's driver support.  It is the main reason I'm running AMD cards in most of my systems.

If something like that happens again, I will be too  ;D
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2013, 06:52:43 pm »

I agree with Glynors comments on the ASUS set of "tools".  I now run them as an app and prevent them from loading on boot.

I was still getting the slowdowns with the beta (not in Chrome but in Outlook and the memory usage drove to over 50% while I was away over a couple of days on a 16gb PC from 22% when I left - some serious memory issues).

I've taken mwillems approach and just swapped out my older Gigabyte GTX550TI and gone an ASUS 670 as well so I hope this issue is behind me (time will tell!).
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 02:54:38 am »

I'm still having the problems after the upgrade to the 760.  I got home after a couple of days and the system was sluggish and memory consumption had doubled.  I have no idea what is causing this issue.  I also tried to downgrade the GPU driver to 314.22 but the install complained my HW was incompatible (odd).  Here are some screen shots of the memory use by the processes but I can not see where an additional 4GB of memory went (I have 16GB overall).  I'm starting to think I'll have to do a clean install......
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2013, 03:24:29 am »

Look under Details, sort on mem usage. Make screenshots and compare that. It will show more details on which process does things.

Make sure you don't have some crappy malware/rootkit/whatever that's leaking memory or something. MS Defender (or whatever its called these days) isn't bad, but it doesn't catch everything. These things can persist through reinstalls so you'd be wasting your time in that case.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2013, 06:51:45 am »

For reference, here's my install of Windows 8.1 on my server from just now.  My Service Host processes are using an order of magnitude less memory than yours.  Uptime is just over two days.
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mwillems

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 07:04:53 am »

I'm still having the problems after the upgrade to the 760.  I got home after a couple of days and the system was sluggish and memory consumption had doubled.  I have no idea what is causing this issue.  I also tried to downgrade the GPU driver to 314.22 but the install complained my HW was incompatible (odd).  Here are some screen shots of the memory use by the processes but I can not see where an additional 4GB of memory went (I have 16GB overall).  I'm starting to think I'll have to do a clean install......

The newer cards won't work with the older drivers (that's a known issue), but I haven't heard reports of 700 series cards getting borked by the drivers. It looks like Chrome is eating a fair amount of memory; is that typical?  Did you try disabling hardware acceleration in the browser just to see?
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2013, 02:45:34 pm »

So I've taken some more screen shots to compare the details after
1) running - System File Checker (SFC)
2) I've disabled more services from starting

FYI - SFC found two errors related to "Corrupt files/unable to fix (AMD64\CNBJ2530.DPB) of prncacla.inf" that I've not had time to look at yet...
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2013, 03:28:29 pm »

FYI - SFC found two errors related to "Corrupt files/unable to fix (AMD64\CNBJ2530.DPB) of prncacla.inf" that I've not had time to look at yet...

That's not good.

I'd probably be thinking long and hard about nuke/paving.
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2013, 05:23:34 pm »

These commands fixed the SFC Errors

dism /online /cleanup-image /checkhealth

dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth

...so time to reboot and see how it goes... again!  Else Nuke / Pave time this weekend but I'm not sure on the Win8.1 process (eg do you do it from the Win8.1 option or from disk).
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2013, 06:51:57 pm »

...so time to reboot and see how it goes... again!  Else Nuke / Pave time this weekend but I'm not sure on the Win8.1 process (eg do you do it from the Win8.1 option or from disk).

If you have a Windows 8, and not 8.1 product key, it is a PITA.

Without hacking around a bunch, you have to install Windows 8 fully, and then upgrade it to 8.1.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2013, 06:53:32 pm »

These commands fixed the SFC Errors

dism /online /cleanup-image /checkhealth

dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth

Yeah, but what caused it, is the concern.  What else got damaged?  If it was just that, without other symptoms, then... Ok.  But often, a nuke/pave is a simpler fix than deep surgery (and wondering what was left behind).

Next time, make a good image of system+drivers (and only that, or maybe a few "gotta have them" utilities) and never do it the hard way again.
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2013, 07:34:11 pm »

Yup I agree - this is the only PC that has gone from 7 --> 8 --> 8.1 so time for a nuke this weekend (just downloading the ISO).
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2013, 03:33:29 am »

Nuke / Pave done - just doing the last fiddle installs and configs so lets see how it goes....fingers crossed
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2013, 05:34:18 am »

I've never been a big fan of Nvidia's driver support.  It is the main reason I'm running AMD cards in most of my systems.
What is this, opposite world? AMD has terrible driver support in my experience, and Nvidia are generally problem-free. Maybe I'm just too used to gaming and not general HTPC use though?

I agree with Glynors comments on the ASUS set of "tools".  I now run them as an app and prevent them from loading on boot.
I never run anything the motherboard ships with. As far as I'm concerned, it's just general crapware that negatively affects system performance and stability like you would get if you bought an off-the-shelf HP or a Dell.

Next time, make a good image of system+drivers (and only that, or maybe a few "gotta have them" utilities) and never do it the hard way again.
You can always just use the Windows 8 reset feature now, rather than creating an image.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2013, 11:47:01 am »

What is this, opposite world? AMD has terrible driver support in my experience, and Nvidia are generally problem-free. Maybe I'm just too used to gaming and not general HTPC use though?

AMD used to, quite a few years ago (the Radeon 9600 era), have terrible driver support.  They also tend to be a tiny bit slower on workaround support for brand new games, or, at least they were historically.  Since that has changed, I feel the stability of their drivers has gone way downhill (though it coincided with massive layoffs too, so who can say what was the cause and effect).

However, I've always had way more trouble with Nvidia drivers.  Their multi-monitor support (while now good) lagged for a long, long time (and never worked right on my GTX 7800).  And, more importantly, I've often encountered version problems (needing to roll back for X, but wanting to update for Y), and they've tended to drop support for products more sporadically (which makes finding the right version later a massive pain).

It can certainly go both ways.  I've long-owned both, and quality certainly fluctuates back and forth, and applies on a use-by-use basis.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2013, 11:47:34 am »

AMD's multi-GPU implementation is a crapshow, though.  I'll grant that for sure.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2013, 12:19:35 pm »

My first ATi card was a Radeon 8500, which was the first time everyone said that they had "fixed their driver problems" and that thing always had issues. When I actually went to buy it, the guys at the shop even recommended that I get an Nvidia card instead.
Their driver problems have supposedly been fixed at least twice since then, and I just don't believe it any more.
 
Especially when it comes to games, AMD always lag far behind Nvidia in getting optimizations out for the latest releases, and often times have released completely broken drivers.
 
id Software took so much flak for the release of Rage that people still bring it up now, even though it was entirely due to AMD's driver releases breaking the game.

With Nvidia's drivers, the lack of a game-specific update generally only means that you are missing out on maybe 10-15% of performance optimizations, or SLI won't work until they release an updated profile (which is becoming a rare issue) rather than the game being totally broken.
 
And AMD flat out refused to admit that they had a problem with stuttering when running 3D content, and when it became a more talked about issue in reviews with people actually measuring frame times, and Nvidia developing the FCAT tool to show off how much smoother their cards ran games, they finally took a look at it and started to fix the problem with their frame pacing driver releases back at the end of July. With Nvidia, stuttering had really only been an issue with multi-gpu setups on older generation cards, but with AMD it also affected single cards.


As for Nvidia's driver support, the current drivers go all the way back to the 8 series cards (8800 etc.) which are 7 years old at this point. That seems reasonable to me.

The only problems I ever had with Nvidia drivers was back in the Windows XP beta/early release days where their cards had a tendency to BSOD under certain conditions. I forget anything more specific than that, but I think it was resolved fairly quickly?
Prior to that, I never had any problems going all the way back to the original GeForce, and I don't recall friends having problems with their Riva TNT either.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2013, 12:35:34 pm »

You can always just use the Windows 8 reset feature now, rather than creating an image.

Tried that - it failed with a msg saying something was missing.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2013, 01:11:10 pm »

Both have been bad, and both have been good.  For most of the Radeon HD series, up until the 6000 line, at least, AMD/ATI has been pretty good.  Again, I'll grant you that their game support has lagged, often by a month or two.  I usually don't buy games until 6-8 months after release, when they go on sale on Steam (and then I never get to actually play them), so my opinion on that is certainly from a long-term stability perspective.

But, to each their own, and I certainly agree that right now, Nvidia cards are where I'd be looking, unless you want to buy at the >$500 price point and then things get murkier.  But I'm solidly a $200-$300 price range guy, and then replace maybe in three years.  Gaming at only 1080p (on the HTPC) makes it easy.

My first ATi card was a Radeon 8500

I had an original TNT and TNT2 card, and then the first Radeon ever (in fact, I bought it on release day, and got a call from PR asking how I liked it, but I hadn't installed it yet).

I've switched back and forth quite a bit.  Driver stability has switched back and forth quite a bit (my TNT2 was terrible, for example).  If you were in it for the 8x00 series, I can see why you'd have gotten a sour taste, though.  That was certainly the height of the "bad old days".

And, as I said, many of my problems with Nvidia were related to multiple monitor support.  If you weren't trying to run 2+ displays (well, you are wrong) but you might not have had as much trouble.  I also feel they've been more touchy on once-they-get-broken.  I've very rarely needed something like a "driver cleaner" for my AMD cards (since about the second year of the monthly Catalyst program), where I've had issues with Nvidia drivers.  And, even finding the right one was long-a-struggle with Nvidia.  But this (again) could just be my experience, and the particular cards I've happened to own, versus the ones you owned.

I'd call it largely a wash, and something that you have to decide on generation-by-generation.  And I have!
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2013, 01:12:41 pm »

You can always just use the Windows 8 reset feature now, rather than creating an image.

I don't have any experience with that feature, other than that it exists.

I'm skeptical of any imaging system that isn't on a separate disk, on a shelf, spun down.  And, Macrium works quite nicely.  But, I haven't tried the built-in thing, so I can't say how it compares.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2013, 01:43:51 pm »

If you were in it for the 8x00 series, I can see why you'd have gotten a sour taste, though.  That was certainly the height of the "bad old days".
But at the time, that was when ATi had supposedly finally fixed their driver problems! That was the whole reason I bought the card in the first place. It's only in retrospect that people say that - and it happens again and again each time ATi (AMD) have supposedly fixed their driver problems.

And, as I said, many of my problems with Nvidia were related to multiple monitor support.  If you weren't trying to run 2+ displays (well, you are wrong) but you might not have had as much trouble.  I also feel they've been more touchy on once-they-get-broken.  I've very rarely needed something like a "driver cleaner" for my AMD cards (since about the second year of the monthly Catalyst program), where I've had issues with Nvidia drivers.  And, even finding the right one was long-a-struggle with Nvidia.  But this (again) could just be my experience, and the particular cards I've happened to own, versus the ones you owned.

I'd call it largely a wash, and something that you have to decide on generation-by-generation.  And I have!
Well, that's not been my experience at all, or any of my friends'. I know a lot of people that have been swayed by ATi/AMD over the years, as they certainly look good on paper, and every single one of them has come back to me saying they will never buy an AMD card again after dealing with them.

Clearly they can't all be terrible, or they probably would not still be in business, but they certainly wouldn't get my recommendation, and it would definitely not be based upon their driver support.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2013, 01:01:12 am »

Uggg to top it off I managed in my carelessness to install a bunch of rubbish like conduit when installing some shareware..... more fun....
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2013, 10:49:06 pm »

So here are pics:
- Day0 : After a rebooting this is what is being used
- Day1 : After a day of using the PC then closing all apps down, this is what it looks like.  No idea where all the memory is being used.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2013, 04:01:25 am »

Is there any other strange behavior? Slowness, unexplainable disk or network activity, application crashes?

If not, what happens if you just leave it running? Does it eventually crash, bluescreen?

If so, I would make sure you get a minidump and let it crash. Hopefully the process that turns out to be unable to allocate more memory will show up in the minidump.

Isn't this simply the effect of that superfetch/prefetch or whatever that feature is called that loads stuff into memory anticipating your usage pattern?

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2013, 04:14:59 am »

Could be - I'll try to let it run for a few days and see what happens.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2013, 09:53:49 am »

Uggg to top it off I managed in my carelessness to install a bunch of rubbish like conduit when installing some shareware..... more fun....

Ugh.  What application included that?

The worst one I still include (that isn't part of Ninite) is Daemon Tools.  I really try to avoid applications altogether that include dreck like that.  Flash Player is bad enough with its McAfee trial, but Conduit?

That's why I'd rather buy good software for a reasonable price, and provide a living wage to the developers.  Because the alternative is that.
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jmone

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2013, 02:12:14 pm »

Ugh.  What application included that?

Many of the SourceForge apps had stuff like Conduit, Tune Up and other crud as "optional" installs (eg PDF Creator, Media Info, FreeFileSync, Bitlord).  I just missed unchecking these "optional" installs with one of them.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2013, 02:31:06 pm »

Ugh.  What application included that?

The worst one I still include (that isn't part of Ninite) is Daemon Tools.  I really try to avoid applications altogether that include dreck like that.  Flash Player is bad enough with its McAfee trial, but Conduit?

That's why I'd rather buy good software for a reasonable price, and provide a living wage to the developers.  Because the alternative is that.

I'll try not to rant .. but I bought Poweriso. All swell. One day I get an update, I download it via the popup or link provided, and install it. I see the toolbar and search crap but I was on automatic mode and I clicked Next. I quickly then clicked back, disabled it and continued and I thought Phew.. just in time. BUT IT STILL INSTALLED IT!

I deinstall that crap but when I typed something in the address bar of Firefox that wasn't an URL, it still went to that search page from the toolbar. I searched high and low but there was no way to remove or change that. Found forums full of rants and raves about it. Ended up clearing all registry entries, removing all Mozilla folders and reinstalling Firefox and it was still there! I thought I was going crazy. I reinstalled my PC ....  :-\

I mailed the developers and they denied that was possible. I setup a VM to replicate it, made screenshots and everything and mailed them a word document with "proof". I never heard back from them.

I asked them why they included this crap in licensed software. They redirected me to a "clean" installer but that's not the one the updater redirected me to.

Months later I had forgotten about all that and after a reinstall of my machine ... guess which installer I picked ;). And yes, I should have removed that file and yes, I clicked past the toolbar question and yes, I went back to untick the toolbar and yes, it installed it again.  :o

Needless to say they lost a customer.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2013, 02:58:39 am »

OK - so here it is on Day3 and I've been away:
- Used Memory has grown to 11GB
- MC is only running as a server and is taken 600K
- IE has only one page open and it is 500K
- Most of the Web Tabs are open in Chrome
- Lots of svchost processes all up under 1GB

So where has all the other Memory Usage gone to???  I wonder if MC Server has a leak?

Outlook is very sluggish....  So is switching between Desktop and Metro.  Mouse responsiveness and other apps are fine.

I've also attached a 2nd screen shot with all foreground apps closed.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2013, 03:05:03 am »

So this is actually a pc you work on as well (I thought it was a server).

Do you think you can bear to keep working like this until it crashes? Make sure your swap file on C: is at leat 800MB and small memory dump is ticked or you won't get a minidump (saved to C:\Windows\minidump\).

Is there anything in system or application event logs? Errors, warnings, anything?

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2013, 03:49:52 am »

Sorry - this is my "Main" PC that I use for everthing (work, remote access, MC Server, e-mail, web browsing etc etc) so really can not leave it till it crashes (well I could do this over the holidays).

Good Idea on the Logs, I have the following sus ones:
- Each hour I get this error (seems MSI is trying to re-install some crap I've removed): Product: Google Update Helper -- Error 1316. A network error occurred while attempting to read from the file: C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Update\1.3.22.3\BonanzaDealsLiveHelper.msi
- I'm getting a few Warnings on my Network adapter like "Adapter link down: Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter", "The Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter has been deactivated from the team." "Team #0: The last adapter has lost link.  Team network connection has been lost." "Primary Adapter does not sense any Probes: Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter . Possible reason: partitioned Team."
- I'm getting up to two of these a day (sometime none) "Custom dynamic link libraries are being loaded for every application. The system administrator should review the list of libraries to ensure they are related to trusted applications. Please visit http://support.microsoft.com/kb/197571 for more information."
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2013, 06:02:58 am »

OK - so here it is on Day3 and I've been away:
- Used Memory has grown to 11GB
- MC is only running as a server and is taken 600K
- IE has only one page open and it is 500K
- Most of the Web Tabs are open in Chrome
- Lots of svchost processes all up under 1GB
svchost.exe is just a service host, and they all look to be network related. If you run the task manager, it will let you expand it and see what services are being used.

So where has all the other Memory Usage gone to???  I wonder if MC Server has a leak?
It is strange - your images only show about 4.5-5GB used, when the total is 11GB or so. Your images don't show the scrollbar, so it could be a lot of small things adding up to a large total though.

Outlook is very sluggish....  So is switching between Desktop and Metro.  Mouse responsiveness and other apps are fine.
Things acting sluggish like that would normally suggest high CPU usage rather than being memory related.

Good Idea on the Logs, I have the following sus ones:
- Each hour I get this error (seems MSI is trying to re-install some crap I've removed): Product: Google Update Helper -- Error 1316. A network error occurred while attempting to read from the file: C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Update\1.3.22.3\BonanzaDealsLiveHelper.msi
- I'm getting a few Warnings on my Network adapter like "Adapter link down: Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter", "The Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter has been deactivated from the team." "Team #0: The last adapter has lost link.  Team network connection has been lost." "Primary Adapter does not sense any Probes: Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter . Possible reason: partitioned Team."
- I'm getting up to two of these a day (sometime none) "Custom dynamic link libraries are being loaded for every application. The system administrator should review the list of libraries to ensure they are related to trusted applications. Please visit http://support.microsoft.com/kb/197571 for more information."
Have you installed any drivers or motherboard utilities since reinstalling? Especially with Windows 8.1, I find it's best to stick with the drivers that the OS comes with unless you actually have a need to use anything different. A lot of tools/driver utilities have not been updated and can cause problems.
 
That "BonanzaDealsLiveHelper" sounds like some kind of malware.
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2013, 01:59:15 pm »

Thanks

I rebooted the PC last night and just left it doing a Sync (FreeFileSync) but did not run another other forground program and this morning the memory usage was "normal" in that the "In Use" has not grown from 17% (though my "Free" had dropped to only 117MB and the rest was in "Standby", some 12GB).

Quote
It is strange - your images only show about 4.5-5GB used, when the total is 11GB or so. Your images don't show the scrollbar, so it could be a lot of small things adding up to a large total though
Yeah there is another screen full of Processes in decreasing memory commitments but it would only be at most another 1/2GB.  No idea where the rest goes and why the processess seems to increase in size.

Quote
Things acting sluggish like that would normally suggest high CPU usage rather than being memory related.
For example in Outlook if you click on another folder nothing happens for a few seconds then the GUI Changes, same with scrolling.  You sometimes get a Not Responding / Grey Out then it snaps back.  The CPU Usage is always low 1-4%.

Quote
Have you installed any drivers or motherboard utilities since reinstalling?
- Nope this time not a thing from ASUS etc after the Pave / Nuke (I too have had issues with some of the ASUS drivers / utilities).  I've even tried preventing printer utilities etc from leading.

The only thing different from my other two Win 8.1 boxs (which I don't have any issue with at all) is:
- Intel's NW Drivers (these are not the STD ones but the ones from Intel so I can team the ports)
- Later version of Office
- MC as a Server
- Citrix's Receiver client (mmmm I wonder, this does not work well in the latest version of IE that was relased with 8.1, hence one reason I started using Chrome)
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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2013, 07:16:37 pm »

Interesting.  I turned off virtual memory paging file and so far memory usage (1/2 day) has been stable.
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glynor

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Re: Win 8.1 UI/Mouse "slows" down after 24 hours or so
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2013, 11:08:34 pm »

That "BonanzaDealsLiveHelper" sounds like some kind of malware.

+1

http://www.shouldiremoveit.com/Bonanza-Deals-90602-program.aspx

It is commonly associated with a number of backdoors, including:
Backdoor.Win32.Cidox
Adware.DealPly.G

It is known to be bundled with "bad distributions" of uTorrent and other crapware distribution venues.  I don't think it is likely that it would have been included with any legit software distributions, though anything's possible.

I don't think you've cleaned the PC effectively, or have somehow re-infected yourself.  And you have to solve that before you can really diagnose anything.
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