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Author Topic: Microsoft  (Read 3478 times)

rjm

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Microsoft
« on: November 15, 2013, 02:00:14 pm »

[Note by JimH -- this thread started out as part of a thread about Linux by InflateableMouse]

I am curious what is your key motivation for this switch [from Windows to Linux]?
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glynor

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 02:11:34 pm »

I am curious what is your key motivation for this switch?

+1
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rjm

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 05:47:17 pm »

That's a very good reason. I understand. I remember the joyful days of CP/M where a person of reasonable intelligence could fully understand everything going on in the computer.

Best wishes with your hobby.

If you are able to spare a little more time I am curious what direction error you think Microsoft is making.
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JimH

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 06:01:23 pm »

If you are able to spare a little more time I am curious what direction error you think Microsoft is making.
They're considering choosing Elop, the former CEO of Nokia, as their next CEO.  Nokia was weak before he came, and he showed no ability to stop the bleeding.  Another choice is Mulally, the CEO of Ford.

And then there's Windows 8, which I want to like, because it has the potential to solve some important problems (touch screen, phone, tablet), but is deeply flawed.  It's two OS's in one, and neither works like the other at all.

Surface turned out to be a disaster.  It had a lot of promise, but the implementation didn't work as a laptop.  I think Matt's kids use the one I bought now.  Maybe.

They have gone in a lot of directions, but they're losing their main product, the OS.

I'll split this to a new thread and move it out of beta.
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rjm

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 06:18:50 pm »

And then there's Windows 8, which I want to like, because it has the potential to solve some important problems (touch screen, phone, tablet), but is deeply flawed.  It's two OS's in one, and neither works like the other at all.

It's true they have not had a hit, with the possible exception of Office 2010, for a very long time.

I mostly like Windows 8, but then I never ever use anything to do with the new user interface, and I am able to work with the old fashioned desktop without aggravation only due to the good graces of the free Classic Start Menu utility.

I do from time to time go into the new user interface with an open mind to see if I am missing something but within minutes I am confused and really really angry so I stay away. What were they thinking? They need new leadership.
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6233638

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 07:33:09 pm »

And then there's Windows 8, which I want to like, because it has the potential to solve some important problems (touch screen, phone, tablet), but is deeply flawed.  It's two OS's in one, and neither works like the other at all.
I still don't see why so many people have issues with Windows 8. OK, they got rid of the start button from the taskbar - it's back in 8.1

The start menu is gone, but now that it no longer gets cluttered as you install desktop programs, the desktop app icons look nicer, and you have the option for small icons, I don't really have a problem with the start screen.
The only remaining issue I have really is that search seems to be slower to populate the results than the start menu. (strangely you can hit enter to launch the first result before it displays anything)
Oh, and Windows still expects the taskbar to be across the bottom of the screen. When it's at the top, as I use, you get a Start Button, but quickly mousing over to the upper-left corner cycles through Metro apps if you have any open - you still have to go to the lower-left corner for the "real" start button. I'm sure I will get used to that, but until yesterday, it wasn't even an issue. (as I did not use Metro apps)
 
The way I see it, is that it's a full desktop OS, which also has the option of running tablet apps.
Frankly, I think that's a very good thing - there's a ton of apps I bought when I had an iPad, that I would love to run on our MacBook. Instead you have to buy a desktop version if one exists (rare) or you're just stuck without any way to use them.
I also think it's a big mistake that Apple are not embracing touchscreens on their notebooks. My father, who is not computer literate, was utterly confused for a couple of minutes after I updated to the latest Skype on his MacBook, and he was unable to touch the buttons. (I guess the UI just looked too similar to something you would see on a tablet) It's just instinctive now if you've spent any time with an iPad or similar device.

If they get Windows phone running the same core as well, so that one app runs on all your hardware, that's very exciting to me.
 
I do think there are still some difficulties using tablet-designed apps on a desktop though. I think they should allow you to run them in a window on the desktop, though Stardock seems to have a solution for that.
An example of this is Flipboard, which was (finally) just released on Windows 8 yesterday. Now I have access to, in my opinion, the best RSS reader for image-heavy sites on my desktop PC. (for text-heavy sites, I prefer Reeder - though I find myself using the web interface for Feedly more and more now)
There's no desktop app for Flipboard, and it doesn't seem like they have much interest in developing one.
 
I would also really like to have seen proper integration of remotes and game controllers in the Metro interface - especially when they're basically using the Start Screen interface on the new Xbox.
 
So yes, there have been some stumbling blocks, but I think Microsoft are a lot more forward-looking than Apple with this approach, and I do think convergence is the way forward.
Surface turned out to be a disaster.  It had a lot of promise, but the implementation didn't work as a laptop.  I think Matt's kids use the one I bought now.  Maybe.
I think this was a marketing problem more than anything else. It was never meant to be used as a laptop - it's a tablet that, when placed on a table, gives you access to a proper keyboard. So you have the portability of a tablet, with the ability to get some actual work done if you need to.
 
The problem is that people looked at it and thought it was a convertible laptop with a touchscreen. (like the Lenovo Yoga)
The difference being that as a tablet, its primary use case is media consumption without a keyboard and mouse, and because the keyboard is totally optional, when you tried to use it on your lap, it was very top-heavy and unbalanced.
The reviews I've read of the Surface 2/Pro 2 seem to think the second position they added to the stand has mostly solved this problem - though it's still not going to be as good as a laptop when you are trying to use it as one. But you cannot use a laptop like a tablet at all.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2013, 04:55:05 am »

That's a very good reason. I understand. I remember the joyful days of CP/M where a person of reasonable intelligence could fully understand everything going on in the computer.

Best wishes with your hobby.

If you are able to spare a little more time I am curious what direction error you think Microsoft is making.

Thanks.

You know this is actually harder to answer than I thought it would be. I don't give it much thought to be honest. It's more of a feeling that's been building up over the years than anything else and I'm actually struggling to put it in words to give you a tangible answer. Microsoft's net income has tripppled in the past 10 years or-so, so in a way they are obviously doing something right. But I am all the way down the food chain, I don't see or understand what goes on up there, I don't see bigger pictures like they do and I don't really care.

I don't think this is going to make much sense, because just like I never gave it much thought, I also never really talked about this before but I'll give it a shot.

I feel the direction Microsoft is going is forced. Like they want to skip a step in the evolution or something, it's very much like cheating or cutting corners. This is especially true for Win8, I think its actually quite obvious, They are forcing a revolution on the Desktop by skipping a step in the natural evolution as they envision it, but I don't share that vision, I don't like it and I don't want it. Xbox One - same story. The forced integration of social media, cloud services, I think its all a mistake, not from where Microsoft is standing of course, or at least not in the short term but from where you and I are standing. I don't know. I'm paranoid when it comes to privacy and internet too. Not that I think I gained anything in that respect by moving away from Win8 but it definitely helped shape the feeling I have.

Remember I said I didn't care? I lied. I actually care more than I like to admit. It took me over an hour to type this and I must have deleted it a dozen times because after each sentence, I started ranting garbage and resorted to ordinary name-calling hahaha! ;D.
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rjm

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2013, 10:08:27 am »

I feel the direction Microsoft is going is forced. Like they want to skip a step in the evolution or something, it's very much like cheating or cutting corners.
Thanks. I suspect your feelings are shared by many.

I am of the opinion that whoever dreamed up Win8 never actually tried to use it without a touchscreen.
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glynor

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2013, 11:16:45 am »

I'll split this to a new thread and move it out of beta.

You did one but not the other.
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fitbrit

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2013, 03:14:53 pm »

Thanks. I suspect your feelings are shared by many.

Ditto. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I'm sticking with Win7 as much as possible for now.
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6233638

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2013, 04:54:29 pm »

Depending on your computer use, I can definitely see the appeal of moving to something like Linux. I certainly like the idea of moving to a 100% open source and free system. (in that regard, BSD is more appealing than Linux)
The practicalities of it just don't work for me though; there's too much software I rely on which only runs on Windows.
 
And from speaking with a few people I know that choose to run a number of Linux machines, they always come back and tell me that Windows is more stable/reliable than Linux. They have Linux machines around the house for various tasks or simply as hobby machines, but their primary desktop/notebooks are all still running Windows.

But if computing is a hobby for you and you find it fun to be learning a new OS, I get that too. I think that's probably the main reason a lot of my friends are running Linux - it's fun to tinker with, and you don't have many of the restrictions that are inherent to the commercial operating systems.
I think the same thing happened for me when I made the switch to OS X in 2004 - it was fresh and new and fun to use because of that. I've since moved back to Windows for my primary machines now though.

I am of the opinion that whoever dreamed up Win8 never actually tried to use it without a touchscreen.
I guess I just don't see it. Day-to-day use on Windows 8 is mostly the same as Windows 7 for me - though I do take advantage of the improvements Microsoft made to the desktop.

My most frequently used applications are pinned to the taskbar, less frequently used applications are pinned to the start screen (which would have been the Start Menu before) and I use search to launch anything else. Because there's more space, and it's more visually represented, I find myself having more apps pinned to the start screen than I did with the start menu actually.
 
I don't have my user account linked to a Microsoft Account, and I haven't been using any Metro apps until Flipboard, so I guess I just haven't encountered most of the things people seem violently opposed to about Windows 8.
Windows 8.1 added the options I needed to stop the hot corners being problematic, and before that I was using Start8 which did the same thing. (I did not like the Start Screen in 8.0)
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JimH

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Re: Microsoft
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2013, 06:50:32 am »

Windows 8 discussion split.
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