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[johnjen]

Ok so here goes.

I am on OSX 10.6.8 from a MacPro w/4 cpu, 16GB ram and an SSD as my boot drive.  Feeding a netgear WNR3500 gigabit router.

I use the Media Network almost exclusively with my PSA PWD DAC, and I have noted several functional and behavioral 'oddities'.

The one that I would like to now address is the ongoing tendency to have the 'player' start a new track only to have the player get stuck at the very beginning of the track with it reading ≈ 5 seconds into the track, then the progress bar and the timer both reset back to the start of the track.  The 'player' then reads up to that 5 second mark again and 'resets' back to the start, ad infinitum.

This process repeats until I manually stop it (ie. the player thinks this is normal) so it isn't a 'fault' nor a crash, nor a 'problem', except for me.

In the past (and this behavior has been happening for months and months and months) my 'remedy' to this ranged from just replaying that track or album, to shutting down MC and restarting it, to having to restart the router, to restarting/shutting down then booting my Mac back up, sometimes it takes combinations of the above actions to 'clear' this behavior.  

And it seems the longer I wait until I manually step in and halt 'the 5 second happy dance' the more 'drastic' the remedy needs to be to correct this.  

Also it should be noted that just because I shut down MC, then restart the app (or use the other remedies as listed above) does not mean the problem will not keep happening upon playing the track again.  In some cases (in the past, not so much any more) a complete shutdown and restart of ALL active participating components (Mac, router, DAC) was 'required'.

These days usually a shutdown of MC is usually as 'drastic' as I need to go.  But even so, sometimes I need to shutdown the router as well to 'restore' normal playing functionality.

If more info is needed, or if tests or other supporting info would be helpful I'll gladly do whatever it takes.

JJ
ps Yes, this is just the 1st of several idiosyncratic behavioral quirks I see on a regular basis.

[JohnT]

Thanks for the detailed report about the 5 second repeat playback problem.  I'll visit this in more detail when I'm back in the office tomorrow, but a couple quick remarks:

1. Can we rule out a firmware bug on the PSA PWD DAC?
   a. What do they say at the PS Audio forum?  
   b. If you know the firmware version on your DAC, please post it here for a data point.
   c. When you have the problem, if you only power down and power up the DAC (not restarting Media Center), is the problem still there?

2. As a side-note, is that computer upgradable to a newer version of OSX?  If so, that would be a good idea since current software will always tend to run best on the current OS version (except maybe a bleeding edge recent OS release).

If other PSA PWD DAC users see this post, could you report on your experiences?
Thanks.

[johnjen]

I'm work'n on a full response.

I just need the '5 sec happy dance' to commence so I can test to see if power cycling the DAC is a cure…

Of course Murphy's law sez I'll be waiting for a while.  

JJ

[johnjen]

Thanks for the detailed report about the 5 second repeat playback problem.  I'll visit this in more detail when I'm back in the office tomorrow, but a couple quick remarks:

1. Can we rule out a firmware bug on the PSA PWD DAC?
   a. What do they say at the PS Audio forum?  

I check into that forum daily and I’ve not seen it mentioned.

   b. If you know the firmware version on your DAC, please post it here for a data point.

I have used 3 different f/w versions (2.2.0 & 4.3.1 & 4.3.3 - latest) and all have these behaviors.  And the Bridge (Ethernet board) has 2 f/w versions (2.0.8 & 2.1.4b) I use, both of which have these behaviors.

   c. When you have the problem, if you only power down and power up the DAC (not restarting Media Center), is the problem still there?

I’ll try this again with this latest f/w version to verify…

2. As a side-note, is that computer upgradable to a newer version of OSX?  If so, that would be a good idea since current software will always tend to run best on the current OS version (except maybe a bleeding edge recent OS release).

If other PSA PWD DAC users see this post, could you report on your experiences?
Thanks.

Which version of OSX do you find the least troublesome?  
Or is there a ‘preferred’ version?

As for always keeping up with the current (as best) OS, it's been my experience that those days are long past.  And it doesn't matter what the OS is (Mac Win etc.) I always wait until the OS 'matures' a bit.

So given that, I can run 7.x or 8.x, but will stay clear of 9.x for some time yet.

JJ
ps Mr Murphy is doing his thing…  No 5-sec-Happy-dance yet.

[johnjen]

So here is another 'quirk'.

And I don't know if you'd like me to list them sequentially (as in one at a time) or just keep tossing examples of behavior that has been around for quite a while to make up a list, so to speak.

Anyway here is an old one

The DLNA server error.
It loses its connection to the remote device (I assume that is what the cryptic message means) and so you have a choice of 'accepting' this announcement or ignoring it.  Both have consequences, meaning MC will either be restarted sooner or later and additional action will also be required at some point.

As of this latest version (88) the behavior is as benign as its ever been, meaning sometimes all I have to do is restart the track that was playing (which quit when the 'OK' button is clicked), and the player continues as if nothing happened.  That is until sometimes (much) later when the app won't quit properly and thus a force quit is required (with a subsequent automatic report sent to apple).

I also use the 'normal' player via usb under certain conditions as well, so I have experience with both operating setups as it is quite easy to switch from one input to the other on the PWD.

Now also let me add, I spend a LOT of time using MC, like on the average of 12+hrs/day, just about every day. So I see lots of its behavior, and I see trends, and I see patterns.  MC has been acting this way for a long time now.  

I mention all of this to put my comments into perspective.  I have been posting about all of these behavioral 'quirks' all along, so these aren't just an occasional nor a behavior that just happened this once, type of situation…  These are ongoing anomalous deleterious reactions by the s/w interacting with the hardware.  

And we all realize that the PWD has its issues as well.  

But then so does MC.

I will do whatever I can to help resolve these 'quirks'.


EDIT:  Just now this error occurred… again.
A dialog box popped up, which said;
"There was a problem controlling the selected DLNA device.  Double check your device, server, and network settings."  And there are the usual accept (OK), ignore (cancel) buttons.

I select OK.  And immediately the player stops playing and ALL of the tracks as listed in the player window disappear, except for the track that was playing, which remains.  

And then another dialog box immediately pops up which says;
"Something went wrong with playback."

I then reload the album I was playing back into the player, and continue playing as if nothing had happened.
But the pattern that I have noticed after even one of these events is, later (after several more albums have played without incident) the player will hang when I deliberately try to shut it down.  The OS then generates an error report which is sent to apple.

And this specific example of this error and the subsequent behaviors which follow can (and have) gotten much more involved (restarting the app, restarting the router etc.) in terms of 'clearing' the anomalous behavior and restoring normal operations.

JJ

[johnjen]

So MC went into the 5 sec loop.
I switch the PWD from the network input to USB.

I power cycle the DAC.

MC pops up with the DLNA error (as listed above).

I click 'OK' and the MC starts playing the first track of the album.

JJ

[JimH]

johnjen,
Please report details without the sarcasm.  "happy dance", for example.  "oldie but goodie", for another.  It doesn't help and it makes the posts harder to read.

You'll need to identify more clearly where the problems lie.  Is it only DLNA, for example?  If so, are you controlling from the DAC or from MC?  Are you using a separate controller. 

Make sure to report your setup when you report a problem.  It's not clear how you're starting playback.

[JohnT]

Which version of OSX do you find the least troublesome?  
Or is there a ‘preferred’ version?

As for always keeping up with the current (as best) OS, it's been my experience that those days are long past.  And it doesn't matter what the OS is (Mac Win etc.) I always wait until the OS 'matures' a bit.

So given that, I can run 7.x or 8.x, but will stay clear of 9.x for some time yet.

JJ
ps Mr Murphy is doing his thing…  No 5-sec-Happy-dance yet.

If you don't want to go to Mavericks yet, I would suggest Mountain Lion which is currently at 10.8.5 I believe.  Mountain Lion has been out since July of 2012 and is very stable.  Snow Leopard is probably nearing end of life for Apple support, since it came out in mid 2009.

[JohnT]

EDIT:  Just now this error occurred… again.
A dialog box popped up, which said;
"There was a problem controlling the selected DLNA device.  Double check your device, server, and network settings."  And there are the usual accept (OK), ignore (cancel) buttons.

There should be just an OK button on this prompt.

[JohnT]

So MC went into the 5 sec loop.
I switch the PWD from the network input to USB.

I power cycle the DAC.

MC pops up with the DLNA error (as listed above).

I click 'OK' and the MC starts playing the first track of the album.

JJ

Did it play fine after this event?  What we want to do is simply power cycle the DAC after one of these episodes, and see if that fixes the problem. Don't switch from Ethernet to USB, leave it connected the same way, just power cycle it.  MC probably popped a DLNA error because of switching the device from one to another.

If simply power cycling the DAC makes the problem go away, then my suspicion is that there's a firmware bug on the DAC.  What do you hear from PS Audio support?

Let's just keep on this particular problem (plays 5 seconds, then restarts at beginning) before moving on to other issues you may be experiencing.

[johnjen]

I'm sorry that my sense of humor doesn't translate well in this medium.  Perhaps if I used more smilies…

Yes it is DLNA where these problems occur as that is my primary mode of operation.

johnjen,
Please report details without the sarcasm.  "happy dance", for example.  "oldie but goodie", for another.  It doesn't help and it makes the posts harder to read.

You'll need to identify more clearly where the problems lie.  Is it only DLNA, for example?  If so, are you controlling from the DAC or from MC?  Are you using a separate controller. 

Make sure to report your setup when you report a problem.  It's not clear how you're starting playback.

My system is very simple.  Unless the connection between the PWD and MC (yet more errors?) doesn't work, I use MC to control the PWD via ethernet. 

I start playback by loading an album into the 'player' and then clicking the stop button (because MC often scrambles the order of play) then I re-order the tracks, then click on the play button.  I don't know if this is a 'correct' answer to your question, or not, but rather than getting very verbose and going into minute detail I figure this should be sufficient (unless that level of detail would be helpful).

I realize that may be a curt answer but my system is very simple, the PWD, an amp, and MC being fed by my Mac.   And I have been repetitively presenting all of this info, multiple times, in multiple ways, since early March of this year.  There is nothing new in my presenting any of this.

And I do realize its hard to keep track of all the users and all of the bug reports that pop up, so I can see why you make the request…  And I don't mean to be snarky, in fact both "happy dance" & "oldie but goodie" are meant as smile evoking images not as condemnations.  The job you (JRiver) is facing is daunting and I have found that humor always helps, well unless it isn't perceived as humor…

And as I stated I will do anything I can to help resolve these 'issues'.

JJ

[johnjen]

Yes it did play fine when the player started up.

And I'll shut down the PWD (without changing the input next time) after the next 5 sec do loop occurs.

Did it play fine after this event?  What we want to do is simply power cycle the DAC after one of these episodes, and see if that fixes the problem. Don't switch from Ethernet to USB, leave it connected the same way, just power cycle it.  MC probably popped a DLNA error because of switching the device from one to another.

If simply power cycling the DAC makes the problem go away, then my suspicion is that there's a firmware bug on the DAC.  What do you hear from PS Audio support?

Let's just keep on this particular problem (plays 5 seconds, then restarts at beginning) before moving on to other issues you may be experiencing.

There very well could be a f/w bug.  
And PSA tech support is not in the loop for this particular problem, yet.  
I can (and have in the past) involved them but a 'clear' sequence of repetitive steps is what they 'need'.  IOW a set of steps that do and don't trigger the problem behavior.

I will report back with the results of this experiment.
And I won't add any more 'issues' until this one is 'resolved' or we decide to move on to the next one.

JJ

[JohnT]

Sounds good JJ. 

[johnjen]

Ok so the 5 sec do loop happened again.

I shut down the PWD straight away.

MC seems to freeze (the progress bar and timer stop), but then it jumps ahead by ≈ 10-15 sec, then jumps ahead again, and again until the PWD comes back online.  At which point the player stops (the progress bar and timer re-set to a no playing condition).  I reset the volume on the pwd and start up the same track it got stuck on and it seems like it gets stuck based upon the progress bar and timer, but then it begins playing.

So it appears that severing the link from MC to the PWD (by shutting down the PWD, or re-starting the router, or restarting MC) does 'clear' the 5 sec do loop.

JJ

[johnjen]

There should be just an OK button on this prompt.

  Yes indeed but lets not forget the little red button in the upper left hand corner of the dialog box (the close box) which effectively works as a cancel button. 

JJ